Hunting and Equine flu

[JulesRules]

I'm still going out for my lesson this weekend. We don't come into close contract with other horses at my instructors yard and she is taking special precautions for visiting horses.

I'm due to compete next weekend and will play it by ear over the next week.

I spoke to my vet on the phone yesterday (the call was about ulcer treatment but I took the opportunity to seek guidance.)
My vet advised me to carry on as normal, but to take special care with bio security - not sharing water, no nose to nose contact etc. She also advised keeping on the lorry rather than tying to the outside etc. She herself is competing this weekend and will carry on as normal.

I do think that some activities such as hunting are a far higher risk though, and I guess you could argue endurance rides and even to a certain extent hacking. Rather than being contained and controlled at a competition venue, horses are put and about in the countryside with the risk of coming into contact with unknown equine who are not within the control of the event organiser.

As others have said I will be risk assessing my movements and actions over the next few weeks and acting sensibly.

 

[tristar]

also consider vet and farrier, chiro, new age flopdoodle people going from horse to horse without changing their clothes or practicing hand washing, equipment disinfection, sales of used tack and visits to feed shops.

i have lived through a major uncontrolled flu epidemic and see no reason why any animal should go through that, never want to see it again

 

[tristar]

what sort of VET says `don`t touch`noses` don`t they know its spread on the air, one sneeze or cough is enough, for god sake!

not touching noses is for strangles bacteria which is contagious not equine flu virus which can be airborn

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Just red nearly every single yard in my area is on lock down, some are even being stabled, as if that’s gunna make any difference.

Really? We are absolute miles away from any case!

 

[palo1]

How do you think people moving their ponies around, going to shows etc affects the racing industry ?

I don't think I said it would affect the racing industry. I meant that if racing can shut down for a week, so could everyone else and if that happened the outbreak would be contained and probably ended. It is simply not possible to guarantee that any one horse in a gathering, whether race horse or pc pony has not, somehow been exposed to the virus and is able to spread it. That is how viruses work and spread - the way transmission works is that it can't easily be predicted but the best chance of stopping transmission is isolation - simple. Flu isn't generally deadly but is a potentially significant illness for any horse - especially if there are subsequent respiratory problems as well as expensive and inconvenient. It isn't particularly easy to quantify the risk in this instance and it is basically naive to think that vaccination will prevent infection or spread.

As flu exists all the time in the horse population there is always a risk of catching it and spreading but that doesn't stop racing or any other activity at a significant level usually but this particular outbreak is different. It may not be severely affecting those horses who currently have it and they are very likely to fully recover quickly but that is not true of all horses: flu can cause mares to abort and can be very serious for old or compromised horses: of which there are many in the general population. I don't quite understand why people think it is somehow 'hysterical' or 'overkill' to want to stop the spread of something nasty, expensive and inconvenient at the very least. At this time of year, studs are getting busier, mares are getting nearer to foaling and most people are looking forward to spending more time in the saddle with longer days and improved weather. Losing a week or 2 at most in early-mid February seems a small price to pay for a better Spring and Summer to me. If I was planning a summer competing/expecting a much planned for foal/had nursed a much loved oldie through winter I would be incredibly frustrated at the thought that the outbreak may be allowed to spread over several weeks or months because people want to get on with 'business as usual' for a week or two. If businesses have no way to cope with this sort of event/interruption then they are probably unsustainable/vulnerable in any case I am afraid. Just my view of course and my equine friends and acquaintances come from a huge range of settings: from professional trainers, racing staff and higher level dressage to the happiest of happy hackers and breeders. Most of them are uncomfortable with the idea of continuing to get out and about as normal.

 

[Shooting Star]

Just red nearly every single yard in my area is on lock down, some are even being stabled, as if that’s gunna make any difference.

Really? We are absolute miles away from any case!

sensible yards are implementing measures yes.

The nearest known case may be miles away but what about the unknown cases from those that don’t bother to call the vet and just wait to let it run it’s course whilst unwhitingly infecting horses on neighbouring land?

What about new horses that people have just purchased from outside your immediate area and are bringing to your local yards?

What about the people on your yard who have their ridden horse with you but a retiree that they keep & visit 3 counties away or their friends horse that they popped in to see whilst visiting relatives?

it’s really very easy to spread the flu!

 

[ycbm]

NHS advice is that flu virus lives for up to six hours on a doorknob. There are a zillion ways that a horse 'nowhere near an outbreak' could become infected.

 

[bonny]

sensible yards are implementing measures yes.

The nearest known case may be miles away but what about the unknown cases from those that don’t bother to call the vet and just wait to let it run it’s course whilst unwhitingly infecting horses on neighbouring land?

What about new horses that people have just purchased from outside your immediate area and are bringing to your local yards?

What about the people on your yard who have their ridden horse with you but a retiree that they keep & visit 3 counties away or their friends horse that they popped in to see whilst visiting relatives?

it’s really very easy to spread the flu!

It’s really not the plague, it’s a virus that exists in the horse world and always will, the same as the human population. Strangely if you hear someone in your street had the flu, life doesn’t stop ! We even manage to stage competions for human athletes, I really don’t see the need for all this hysteria.

 

[catkin]

It’s really not the plague, it’s a virus that exists in the horse world and always will, the same as the human population. Strangely if you hear someone in your street had the flu, life doesn’t stop ! We even manage to stage competions for human athletes, I really don’t see the need for all this hysteria.

Err, actually if someone in your street was diagnosed with Swine Flu they would be on lockdown. Don't you remember what happened a few short years ago?
this is Flu, not a cold virus.

 

[Goldenstar]

I spoke to my vet yesterday
They have seen or heard of no cases in our area .
Racing is taking the right action nothing will spread flu faster than horses from all over the country in large numbers collecting in one place and then being physically stressed then going back home ,virus heaven .
Atm all the show centres round here are open and they are hunting I pretty sure it’s no visitors though .
Ten days should see .
It’s important to remember flu is always with us many of those not quite right horses will be vaccinated horses who have been in contact with the virus .
Let’s hope it settles for the foal season .

 

[bonny]

Err, actually if someone in your street was diagnosed with Swine Flu they would be on lockdown. Don't you remember what happened a few short years ago?
this is Flu, not a cold virus.

I’m aware it’s flu, there is no suggestion anywhere that affected horses are any iller than normal, one of the affected horses was racing a few days ago and obviously showing no clinical signs. Funnily enough even when we had swine flu in the human population Life managed to carry on

 

[Goldenstar]

Err, actually if someone in your street was diagnosed with Swine Flu they would be on lockdown. Don't you remember what happened a few short years ago?
this is Flu, not a cold virus.

Equine flu is not swine flu it does not jump species and it will rarely kill the horse (apart from foals )although just like human flu it’s deeply unpleasant and the horses will take a fair bit of nursing and the horse will take a while to get over it some a long while .

 

[Tiddlypom]

I’m aware it’s flu, there is no suggestion anywhere that affected horses are any iller than normal, one of the affected horses was racing a few days ago and obviously showing no clinical signs. Funnily enough even when we had swine flu in the human population Life managed to carry on

The old, the young and the immunologically naïve horses will always fare worse. Are you ready to see widespread deaths in new born foals because you're so fixated on your own desire to see Cheltenham to go ahead?

 

[bonny]

Equine flu is not swine flu it does not jump species and it will rarely kill the horse (apart from foals )although just like human flu it’s deeply unpleasant and the horses will take a fair bit of nursing and the horse will take a while to get over it some a long while .

The six cases that have tested positive in racing so far are in horses that either had no symptoms or whose performance was affected in a race, they certainly weren’t very ll and requiring lots of nursing. Vaccinated horses that get the virus tend not be ill as such.

 

[bonny]

The old, the young and the immunologically naïve horses will always fare worse. Are you ready to see widespread deaths in new born foals because you're so fixated on your own desire to see Cheltenham to go ahead?

Seriously, this is becoming ridiculous

 

[Tiddlypom]

Seriously, this is becoming ridiculous

Oh no it isn't. I am 2.5 miles from McCains, and have two Cushing's horses. They HAVE been vaccinated recently with Prequenza boosters, but no one is really sure yet how much protection that will afford them.

Twemlows and Harthill studs are also close by.

 

[bonny]

Oh no it isn't. I am 2.5 miles from McCains, and have two Cushing's horses.
Twemlows and Harthill studs are also close by.

You are probably a lot closer to hundreds of unvaccinated horses, a proportion of which will get a virus every year, the same as with people.

 

[Tiddlypom]

GS, it's disappointing that hunting is still taking place in your area. Of all the sports, hunting is the one with the potential to spread flu over a wider area. A two week halt whilst the situation is evaluated would have been much more sensible.

 

[palo1]

Taken from Dynamo's thread in Competing and Training forum:-

''info for those questioning why we react more strongly to an equine outbreak than to a human outbreak:

Flu is much more serious than having a cold. Genuine flu in humans causes deaths, as it does in horses. If there was an outbreak of swine flu, or bird flu, or some other serious type of flu in a school close to your children's school, and if the schools had been competing at joint sports events, you might well think about keeping your children off school as a precaution. It's not an over-reaction.

One of the horses that was first diagnosed has been PTS in the last 24 hours because of the severity of symptoms and non-response to treatment. If you extrapolate from that, one horse in however many are positively diagnosed so far... fewer than 20?... that potentially amounts to a high percentage of deaths, higher than in a human flu outbreak.

And it's easier to contain than a human flu outbreak, so why would we not contain it if we can?

One person's over-reaction is another person's sensible precaution.
Read more at https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/...iling-plans.772566/page-3#URUQhhoXAUTI7QLX.99''

I hadn't heard that one of the horses had been pts. If so, that is really sad but hopefully incidents will be contained.

 

[Tiddlypom]

You are probably a lot closer to hundreds of unvaccinated horses, a proportion of which will get a virus every year, the same as with people.

Yes indeed, but most of those viruses will be mild and not likely to kill 67% of my horses.

 

[Goldenstar]

You are probably a lot closer to hundreds of unvaccinated horses, a proportion of which will get a virus every year, the same as with people.

This is true .
But tiddlypom is right to be worried because of where she lives .
Three horses are infected on one yard they are horses who will have a good vaccination history
And if I where her I would be staying home getting any horse who had a vaccination longer than six months ago jabbed again .
As a further precaution I would have a set of yard top clothes including a hat and boots that don’t leave the premises ( easy for me I have a lot of clothing not fir to be seen in public ).
If TP has a paddocks close to roads I would use the ones most distant from the road .
I would then hope for the best .
That not I would do living 200 miles away
If the virus runs amok through DMcC ‘s yard then we all probaly in a spot of bother because then the virus has clearly broken through the vaccine in a big way .

 

[palo1]

The six cases that have tested positive in racing so far are in horses that either had no symptoms or whose performance was affected in a race, they certainly weren’t very ll and requiring lots of nursing. Vaccinated horses that get the virus tend not be ill as such.

As of last night there were 10 confirmed cases with several others as yet unconfirmed. It IS a tiny number but the fact that vaccinated horses are getting it is actually quite significant. Each to their own interpretation though...

 

[poiuytrewq]

I for one was very relieved that the local hunt here cancelled tomorrow.

 

[ester]

There still seems to be a lot of point missing. My head is getting a bit sore, people are still telling me it is no different to strangles while being very convinced that they are correct.

The likelihood of two vaccine brands providing 'faulty' batches of vaccines really is the least likely scenario. The worst case scenario is that you have a virus that is sufficiently different from the included strain that none of the UK herd is protected. That really is a big deal. It might not be the case but I really don't see the issue with being cautious initially given the risk/benefit.
We have no idea of the likely scale of the issue because horses well may have been affected without anyone realising what it was, now people will be testing so we will only get an idea over the amount of spread we already have over the next week or so.

It has been reported that one of the horses has been PTS as a result of symptoms (I don't have a link for that though unfortunately).

I spent Thursday telling my south west friends not to worry too much initially, obviously that scenario very rapidly changed.

 

[Goldenstar]

Flu is much more serious than strangles it’s much more infectious and causes dangerously high temperatures
It’s very sad if a horse has been PTS sadly getting flu just after running a race is not good .
And your right if the vaccination is not even reducing the severity of symptoms it’s very serious .
If there significant spread into horses from the meeting these horses went to it’s probaly time stay home wherever you are .
I have to say it’s times like this I am are very relieved by horses are at home .

 

[Meredith]

It’s really not the plague, it’s a virus that exists in the horse world and always will, the same as the human population. Strangely if you hear someone in your street had the flu, life doesn’t stop ! We even manage to stage competions for human athletes, I really don’t see the need for all this hysteria.

No life doesn’t stop for the rest of the world but precautions should be taken.

There will always be a few who are ill but sensible care limits the spread. No one will hear about the few but if precautions are not taken that quickly can become the many.

I have had the misfortune to have had “proper” Human Influenza, in the 1980’s. It is horrible. It left me weak for 3 months and has affected me ever since. I took care to keep as isolated as possible during that time.

 

[Goldenstar]

Seriously, this is becoming ridiculous

GS, it's disappointing that hunting is still taking place in your area. Of all the sports, hunting is the one with the potential to spread flu over a wider area. A two week halt whilst the situation is evaluated would have been much more sensible.

No I don’t agree racing and affiliated competitions where horses travel long distances from all over and then stable are most likely to cause spread .

 

[Goldenstar]

Is that ten on DMcC’s yard if so it’s not looking good .

 

[Meredith]

No I don’t agree racing and affiliated competitions where horses travel long distances from all over and then stable are most likely to cause spread .

Any travelling could cause spread surely.
Our local hunt has visitors every week from 40 or more miles away.
I don’t know if they met today but I hope they didn’t.

 

[Tiddlypom]

It was still 6 at McCains last time I heard, inc a runner at Ayr on Weds.

Hunting can spread flu rapidly within the local area. The virus is spread through the air, not by direct contact. Think how many horses that the field may pass by within 100m during a day, it would only take one +ve hunting horse to potentially infect scores of others in one day.