Hunting and Equine flu

Seriously there are a lot of people on here who are getting very carried away, we are talking about a virus that is everywhere, large stables of horses will have a virus in some form in some horses every year. It is important in the racing world because it affects performance, not because horses are going to die. A reality check is needed.
 
Goldenstar said:
No I don’t agree racing and affiliated competitions where horses travel long distances from all over and then stable are most likely to cause spread .
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And this is why racing has stopped. We could potentially spread the infection hundreds upon hundreds of miles every day. Most people wont travel more than 2 hours to a normal competition or hunt thus reducing the area covered. Racehorses travel up to 400miles a day, often stay overnight then go home again if the drive is more than 4-5 hours.
 
bonny said:
Seriously there are a lot of people on here who are getting very carried away, we are talking about a virus that is everywhere, large stables of horses will have a virus in some form in some horses every year. It is important in the racing world because it affects performance, not because horses are going to die. A reality check is needed.
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Bonny, but do you not think that you being worried about Cheltenham is perhaps a lesser worry than the millions of pounds the racing and breeding industries will take if this mutated virus gos through the Newmarket studs and training yards? I can't believe people are being so short sighted that the fact they are bored on a Saturday afternoon is more important.
 
palo1 said:
Considering the incubation period and the time it takes for a horse to get the flu and then to lose infectiousness is relatively short, it makes absolute sense to just put things on hold for a week or 2. That would be the quickest way to stop the disease spreading. If racing are prepared to shut down, as the biggest equine industry, it doesn't make much sense for everyone else to bleat about 'overkill' in my mind but we all have different perspectives. If people insist on moving horses and attending competitions etc it is much more likely that the whole thing will continue on and affect everyone's sport, hobby and livelihood for longer. It really irritates me to be honest and anyone who has seen or been through a nasty outbreak of flu (in vaccinated or unvaccinated horses) would certainly think twice about beetling about the countryside with precious Neddy. Hey ho.
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But the thing is, at Newmarket even lockdown yards are still allowed to exercise on the heath, albeit after the majority have returned to their yards. Considering that this is an airborne disease, it makes a nonsense of the whole concept of stopping all racing and racehorse movement.
 
Clodagh said:
Bonny, but do you not think that you being worried about Cheltenham is perhaps a lesser worry than the millions of pounds the racing and breeding industries will take if this mutated virus gos through the Newmarket studs and training yards? I can't believe people are being so short sighted that the fact they are bored on a Saturday afternoon is more important.
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Nobody said that ! I’m saying I think it’s all a huge overreaction, more and more trainers are now saying the same thing, I don’t see how it involves people with leisure horses in any way. Racing is in trouble for lots of reasons at the moment, the affects of this if it carries on would be disasterous and for what ?
 
bonny said:
Seriously there are a lot of people on here who are getting very carried away, we are talking about a virus that is everywhere, large stables of horses will have a virus in some form in some horses every year. It is important in the racing world because it affects performance, not because horses are going to die. A reality check is needed.
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My vet pretty much just said this to us. He’s the director of a big chain. He said it’s all gone a bit over the top quickly, it’s about more often than you think and usually it isn’t a huge deal. But.. they are worried if it’s unstoppable and a new strain. it’s not as bad with leisure horses, they’re unwell but usually better quickly but race horses etc will have performance effected, be out of work for 4-8 weeks recovering and that’s a lot of money being lost basically so it could ruin that side of things.

Don’t shoot the messenger. We had ours jabbed early, he said it’s the most recent version sensitive to this strain (they believe) but if it isn’t, nothing will stop it vaccinated or not, pretty much. It’s still early stages.
 
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Goldenstar said:
Just seen on FB (not sure if it’s right )that the BHA are letting some Point to points to go ahead tomorrow .
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There will be no racing at all - including point to point in this country until thursday at the very earliest. The decision will be made on Monday. There is pointing and racing on in Ireland this weekend.
 
Would be a bit silly to allow P2P to go ahead? Especially considering so many pointers are trained alongside racehorses. We need to stop everything. I think the BHA have been absolutely amazing! Outstanding reactions at such speed will hopefully contain this well.
 
Aimeetess said:
My vet pretty much just said this to us. He’s the director of a big chain. He said it’s all gone a bit over the top quickly, it’s about more often than you think and usually it isn’t a huge deal. But.. they are worried if it’s unstoppable and a new strain. it’s not as bad with leisure horses, they’re unwell but usually better quickly but race horses etc will have performance effected, be out of work for 4-8 weeks recovering and that’s a lot of money being lost basically so it could ruin that side of things.

Don’t shoot the messenger. We had ours jabbed early, he said it’s the most recent version sensitive to this strain (they believe) but if it isn’t, nothing will stop it vaccinated or not, pretty much. It’s still early stages.
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Isn't that the problem though? Affected racehorses will have a robust vaccination history and yet have still got the virus *because the vaccine is ineffective* for this particular virus. There will be NO horses in the country which have been effectively vaccinated against this strain because no-one knew that they needed to be, or because there is no vaccine against this strain. A booster jab will not be much good if it is simply a 2nd injection of the same vaccine. The only way to stop the rapid spread of this airborne virus is to keep horses on their own yards with good bio-security imho. I am surprised that some hunts and comp venues haven't cancelled at least this weekend.
 
bonny said:
Seriously there are a lot of people on here who are getting very carried away, we are talking about a virus that is everywhere, large stables of horses will have a virus in some form in some horses every year. It is important in the racing world because it affects performance, not because horses are going to die. A reality check is needed.
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Out of interest, why do you think that the Animal Health Trust, The British Equine Veterinary Association, and multiple veterinary practices/hospitals don't agree with you, and are making it very clear that there is potentially a significant problem that needs to be nipped in the bud.
 
Goldenstar said:
Flu is much more serious than strangles it’s much more infectious and causes dangerously high temperatures
It’s very sad if a horse has been PTS sadly getting flu just after running a race is not good .
And your right if the vaccination is not even reducing the severity of symptoms it’s very serious .
If there significant spread into horses from the meeting these horses went to it’s probaly time stay home wherever you are .
I have to say it’s times like this I am are very relieved by horses are at home .
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I don't know where it's been reported that a horse has died, and I'm not sure it's true, but if it is, it definitely ISN'T one of the McCain horses!
 
poiuytrewq said:
Would be a bit silly to allow P2P to go ahead? Especially considering so many pointers are trained alongside racehorses. We need to stop everything. I think the BHA have been absolutely amazing! Outstanding reactions at such speed will hopefully contain this well.
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and on the non-racing side - well done BHS getting out an e-mail on Friday afternoon to (what I presume) are all on their mailing list with information on what to look out for and how to deal with aspects of bio-security. The suggestions are helpful.
 
The BHA have just said of over 700 test results back in already ONLY the original 6 from McCains yard have tested positive. This includes a couple of tests from Rebecca Menzies who had a couple of ill horses and fully expected the results to be flu. Thankfully it isn't it's just another bug that has been floating about.
 
bonny said:
The six cases that have tested positive in racing so far are in horses that either had no symptoms or whose performance was affected in a race, they certainly weren’t very ll and requiring lots of nursing. Vaccinated horses that get the virus tend not be ill as such.
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The first three that were positive were showing signs of being unwell, that's why they were tested in the first place, so vaccinated horses can still get ill, it's just usually not as severe, and they get over it quicker.
 
faerie666 said:
I don't know where it's been reported that a horse has died, and I'm not sure it's true, but if it is, it definitely ISN'T one of the McCain horses!
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Posted 6 hours ago on the South Coast Equine vets FB page (so it's not a McCain horse) :-

*** INFLUENZA UPDATE ***

Devastatingly, one of the UNVACCINATED horses identified with Influenza at the beginning of this week, has been euthanised due to severity of symptoms, despite intensive care.

This highlights the potential of this new strain to cause horrific consequences, and the absolute importance of VACCINATION. It may not completely prevent all symptoms, but all THREE flu vaccinations are resulting in much milder symptoms and quicker recoveries.

We have found that the level of immunity to ‘flu is decreasing too much to offer sufficient protection after 6 months, hence the recommendation for boosters.

Many thanks to the brilliant team at the Animal Health Trust, for the constant updates, and who are about to work through the weekend testing thousands of swabs and bloods.

Finally, remember that this virus is AIRBORNE.
 
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Tiddlypom said:
Postd 6 hours ago on the South Coast Equine vets FB page:-

*** INFLUENZA UPDATE ***

Devastatingly, one of the UNVACCINATED horses identified with Influenza at the beginning of this week, has been euthanised due to severity of symptoms, despite intensive care.

This highlights the potential of this new strain to cause horrific consequences, and the absolute importance of VACCINATION. It may not completely prevent all symptoms, but all THREE flu vaccinations are resulting in much milder symptoms and quicker recoveries.

We have found that the level of immunity to ‘flu is decreasing too much to offer sufficient protection after 6 months, hence the recommendation for boosters.

Many thanks to the brilliant team at the Animal Health Trust, for the constant updates, and who are about to work through the weekend testing thousands of swabs and bloods.

Finally, remember that this virus is AIRBORNE.
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Thank you for posting this Tiddlypom, that's very sad news.
The post I quoted did make it sound as if it might have been one of the race horses, and that's a rumour no one needs right now.
 
Aimeetess said:
My vet pretty much just said this to us. He’s the director of a big chain. He said it’s all gone a bit over the top quickly, it’s about more often than you think and usually it isn’t a huge deal. But.. they are worried if it’s unstoppable and a new strain. it’s not as bad with leisure horses, they’re unwell but usually better quickly but race horses etc will have performance effected, be out of work for 4-8 weeks recovering and that’s a lot of money being lost basically so it could ruin that side of things.

Don’t shoot the messenger. We had ours jabbed early, he said it’s the most recent version sensitive to this strain (they believe) but if it isn’t, nothing will stop it vaccinated or not, pretty much. It’s still early stages.
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This bit here is the big issue, this bit is why people are concerned. Because the worst case scenario right now is that no horse in the UK is fully protected against the currently circulating virus. That's a pretty big deal :p.

I'm quite happy about using my level of knowledge to make judgements from, the things I have seen from many others, including some vets have me pretty concerned.
 
popsdosh said:
I thought you were sensible . Must have been several batches gone wrong then as it is all brands really dont believe the hype as people love conspiracy theories
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This is now looking a possible scenario, all this fuss and it could just be a problem at Donald McCain’s yard ! 720 swabs have been tested so far, 6 horses have been positive, all from one yard so it could be the horses weren’t vaccinated or the vaccine was faulty ?
 
bonny said:
This is now looking a possible scenario, all this fuss and it could just be a problem at Donald McCain’s yard ! 720 swabs have been tested so far, 6 horses have been positive, all from one yard so it could be the horses weren’t vaccinated or the vaccine was faulty ?
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Every single horse on a racing yard - even down to the 36yo deaf, dumb, blind and half dead companion pony HAVE to be fully vaccinated to be there. I also highly doubt its a batch of faulty vaccines. Viruses mutate, they evolve. Different strains of the same overall virus live in different parts of the world but they do come together from time to time and intermingle. You vaccinate for what is local to your area hence why Britain very rarely vaccinates for Equine Herpes and yet France have it as a regular vaccine like their flu jag. Herpes is quite prevelent in France.

Trust me no one wants racing to be on more than me because The Reprobate is absolutely bouncing out of his skin right now desperate for a run! He is in at Kelso on Thursday but he will be the first balloted out as he is 1lb above the handicap.
 
EKW said:
Every single horse on a racing yard - even down to the 36yo deaf, dumb, blind and half dead companion pony HAVE to be fully vaccinated to be there. I also highly doubt its a batch of faulty vaccines. Viruses mutate, they evolve. Different strains of the same overall virus live in different parts of the world but they do come together from time to time and intermingle. You vaccinate for what is local to your area hence why Britain very rarely vaccinates for Equine Herpes and yet France have it as a regular vaccine like their flu jag. Herpes is quite prevelent in France.

Trust me no one wants racing to be on more than me because The Reprobate is absolutely bouncing out of his skin right now desperate for a run! He is in at Kelso on Thursday but he will be the first balloted out as he is 1lb above the handicap.
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Actually horses have to have a stamp in their passport to say they have been vaccinated, something odd is going on in that yard
 
bonny said:
Actually horses have to have a stamp in their passport to say they have been vaccinated, something odd is going on in that yard
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😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

You can keep your conspiracy theories in cloud cuckoo land where they belong 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 McCain's aren't the only vaccinated horses to have tested positive 😂😂😂😂 he just happens to be the unlucky bugger in racing that has so far 😂😂😂😂😂😂 what would benefit him and his vet from illeagaly stamping passports but not issuing the vaccine?!?? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 the owners pay for it so its not like it is coming out of his own pocket 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
 
EKW said:
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

You can keep your conspiracy theories in cloud cuckoo land where they belong 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 McCain's aren't the only vaccinated horses to have tested positive 😂😂😂😂 he just happens to be the unlucky bugger in racing that has so far 😂😂😂😂😂😂 what would benefit him and his vet from illeagaly stamping passports but not issuing the vaccine?!?? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 the owners pay for it so its not like it is coming out of his own pocket 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
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What’s with all the silly faces, you maybe need to do a bit more research and open your mind a bit.
 
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