Hunting is in a spot of bother

[Burnttoast]

Perhaps you are lucky then, and you don’t have to make your living from the land? On our farm we had planted 20,000 trees and restored all the hedge lines, we had beetle banks, game cover (not maize) and we encouraged and enjoyed nature. We couldn’t though allow the literal thousands upon thousands on pigeons that could strip a field of rape or laid barley in a few days to go on unchecked.

I'm not saying don't shoot them, I'm saying they would rather eat other things that are no longer available, and because they can eat what you have provided, and survive/breed on it, they will. That's why we end up with pigeons and not a lot else. In the countryside around my village (and much more widely in much of East Anglia) the hedges are all cut, every year, latest in early September. They are mostly about 2 feet wide and 3-4 feet high. They might as well not be there for all the cover/food they provide wildlife. And woodland is unmanaged, so fruit-bearing shrubs are shaded out and produce nothing. The irony is that cutting hedges every three years on a rota would be less work and more beneficial for everything.

 

[Clodagh]

The hedges are cut then as come October the fields are too wet and as drilling times get earlier you need to be able to get on the land. Our hedges were as high as you could get the flail onto, I’m guessing about 10/12 foot high? And impenetrable. We cut each side alternate years. Leave them too long and they go stringy and too tall.

 

[Clodagh]

Don't they. Round here they do.

I didn’t say that? Not my quote. Weird!
But possibly where you are they do but not round us now, nor in Essex was it the norm. Shotguns yes.

 

[Clodagh]

I didn’t say that? Not my quote. Weird!
But possibly where you are they do but not round us now, nor in Essex was it the norm. Shotguns yes.

quoting has gone mad!

 

[Tiddlypom]

It doesn't help that of those people that I know who do shoot (driven pheasant shooting), I wouldn't trust them with a pea shooter never mind a gun ?.

Plus all the awful tales from my late Dad of completely avoidable shooting 'accidents' caused by reckless feckwits in which he had to try and patch up the injured parties as best he could to save their sight. That is assuming that they survived, of course.

 

[Clodagh]

It doesn't help that of those people that I know who do shoot (driven pheasant shooting), I wouldn't trust them with a pea shooter never mind a gun ?.

Plus all the awful tales from my late Dad of completely avoidable shooting 'accidents' caused by reckless feckwits in which he had to try and patch up the injured parties as best he could to save their sight. That is assuming that they survived, of course.

Safety has improved hugely since I was a child. Thank goodness!

 

[Burnttoast]

The hedges are cut then as come October the fields are too wet and as drilling times get earlier you need to be able to get on the land. Our hedges were as high as you could get the flail onto, I’m guessing about 10/12 foot high? And impenetrable. We cut each side alternate years. Leave them too long and they go stringy and too tall.

Where there's no headland or track fair enough but here they do them all at the same time regardless (fair enough, more efficient for them). But the timing would be much less important if they weren't cut yearly. Yours sound wonderful but they couldn't be further away from the reality here. Most of them here actually would benefit from being coppiced now and left to regrow, as they've been cut to the same level for so many years that they are basically knuckles on sticks, the base canopy is often a metre off the ground, most with rot in them where the flail has split the trunks. They will slowly get gappier and disappear altogether and then the estate won't need to send the flail round at all. Two or three years is a good interval for most basically well-maintained hedges - essential if you want fruit on blackthorn, too. Eventually all hedges ideally need laying or coppicing but you can eke out the time to decades if they aren't cut to the same level year after year. Sorry to sound evangelical but I'm really interested in hedge management for wildlife and have had the chance to actually help with some useful work round here on the subject. My own hedges are just coming up to the age for their first 'proper' haircut and then I'm going to put them on a rota, although there's only about 600m of them so I can't make much contribution.

 

[paddy555]

I didn’t say that? Not my quote. Weird!
But possibly where you are they do but not round us now, nor in Essex was it the norm. Shotguns yes.

how weird. It got Palo's quote 4223 correct but put it to the wrong person.

 

[palo1]

how weird. It got Palo's quote 4223 correct but put it to the wrong person.

Yes, and it did the opposite for me and ycbm's comment! Are you sure about farmers routinely having HV rifles though? You need a different kind of licence for a HVR and whilst many farmers will have a shotgun it is, in my experience, rare for anyone outside the business of shooting to have one. It would not be a suitable weapon for farm related shooting at all.

 

[Millionwords]

South Shropshire Hunt master fined £600 after failing to call dogs away from disturbed fox

Telford Magistrates Court heard that footage of Cherriman was taken by witnesses, showing him making noises to disturb foxes. He then did nothing as the hounds hunted.


https://www.shropshirestar.com/news...failing-to-call-dogs-away-from-disturbed-fox/

 

[Clodagh]

Where there's no headland or track fair enough but here they do them all at the same time regardless (fair enough, more efficient for them). But the timing would be much less important if they weren't cut yearly. Yours sound wonderful but they couldn't be further away from the reality here. Most of them here actually would benefit from being coppiced now and left to regrow, as they've been cut to the same level for so many years that they are basically knuckles on sticks, the base canopy is often a metre off the ground, most with rot in them where the flail has split the trunks. They will slowly get gappier and disappear altogether and then the estate won't need to send the flail round at all. Two or three years is a good interval for most basically well-maintained hedges - essential if you want fruit on blackthorn, too. Eventually all hedges ideally need laying or coppicing but you can eke out the time to decades if they aren't cut to the same level year after year. Sorry to sound evangelical but I'm really interested in hedge management for wildlife and have had the chance to actually help with some useful work round here on the subject. My own hedges are just coming up to the age for their first 'proper' haircut and then I'm going to put them on a rota, although there's only about 600m of them so I can't make much contribution.

It all helps. My OH cuts and lays hedges (not professionally but good enough).

 

[Clodagh]

South Shropshire Hunt master fined £600 after failing to call dogs away from disturbed fox

Telford Magistrates Court heard that footage of Cherriman was taken by witnesses, showing him making noises to disturb foxes. He then did nothing as the hounds hunted.


https://www.shropshirestar.com/news...failing-to-call-dogs-away-from-disturbed-fox/

Gosh, back on topic ?

 

[blitznbobs]

It doesn't help that of those people that I know who do shoot (driven pheasant shooting), I wouldn't trust them with a pea shooter never mind a gun ?.

Plus all the awful tales from my late Dad of completely avoidable shooting 'accidents' caused by reckless feckwits in which he had to try and patch up the injured parties as best he could to save their sight. That is assuming that they survived, of course.

in 20 years in a and e seen many many riding accidents and horse on the ground accidents and only one shotgun shot — definitely not an accident - a self inflicted on purpose who tried to shoot himself in the head and missed (ie shot came out thru his face and he survived) incredibly sad but nothing to do with feckwittery… everyone I know who owns a gun is not going to shoot anyone by accident.., people in charge of horses cause much more damage to bystanders with out of control beasties.. and it is far less monitored.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Good for you. I stand by my comments. The people I know who shoot aren't fit to be let out without a minder, let alone with a gun.

We were allowed a huge amount of freedom as children with much potential to injure ourselves with horses or sailing boats, but guns or archery were absolutely out.

 

[Burnttoast]

It all helps. My OH cuts and lays hedges (not professionally but good enough).

Don't think the hedges mind if they aren't competition standard

 

[palo1]

Lisa Jaffrey, who was the woman hit by a car at a hunt meeting a couple of weeks ago, has recovered sufficiently to have been back in action, arrested, remanded in custody and bail refused. She is alongside Mel Broughton who has form for arson and terrorism offences (previously jailed). On both sides of the animal rights/hunting debate there are some deeply unpleasant and dangerous individuals. Neither Lisa Jaffrey nor Mel Broughton, nor many of their comrades would be likely to end their activities if there was a complete ban on trail hunting...

 

[Millionwords]

On another note....hunts or their followers throwing what are seemingly some type of Thunderflash explosive into a sab vehicle/at sabs, should surely warrant some police involvement.

Its not the sabs with explosives. I've used Thunderflashes and they are horrible when they go off near you.

What do hunts followers/hunts need these for exactly? ??
I've only encountered them in the military and I know airsofters use them.

https://fb.watch/gPsApedmZZ/

Lisa Jaffrey, who was the woman hit by a car at a hunt meeting a couple of weeks ago, has recovered sufficiently to have been back in action, arrested, remanded in custody and bail refused. She is alongside Mel Broughton who has form for arson and terrorism offences (previously jailed). On both sides of the animal rights/hunting debate there are some deeply unpleasant and dangerous individuals. Neither Lisa Jaffrey nor Mel Broughton, nor many of their comrades would be likely to end their activities if there was a complete ban on trail hunting...

What are hunts taking Thunderflashes out with them for? To throw at people? Or for some aspect of trail hunting I've never heard of?

I'm glad to hear she's recovered. Whatever she's done is unlikely to be excusable.

 

[palo1]

Yes I have seen this, it’s awful and the violence directed towards Sabs and Monitors is escalating if they aren’t running us over they are throwing bombs at us now.

Um, and now both Mel Broughton - well known hunt sab, arsonist and terrorist and Lisa Jaffrey (thankfully recovered from injuries sustained as a result of being hit by a car at a hunt meet) are remanded in custody with no bail. They are not exactly yer peace loving, non violent activists either. Petrol bombing (Mel Broughton) isn't a democratic protest...

 

[palo1]

What are hunts taking Thunderflashes out with them for? To throw at people? Or for some aspect of trail hunting I've never heard of?

I have no idea why anyone would either acquire or use thunderflashes in any civilian setting. It is madness. Thankfully it is not part of the general trail hunting experience. I hope the police are investigating that.

 

[Millionwords]

Um, and now both Mel Broughton - well known hunt sab, arsonist and terrorist and Lisa Jaffrey (thankfully recovered from injuries sustained as a result of being hit by a car at a hunt meet) are remanded in custody with no bail. They are not exactly yer peace loving, non violent activists either. Petrol bombing (Mel Broughton) isn't a democratic protest...

Its rather like people have only this particular bad egg to bring up over and over again.

There have been far more hunt members in court recently than sabs/antis.

 

[palo1]

Its rather like people have only this particular bad egg to bring up over and over again.

There have been far more hunt members in court recently than sabs/antis.

Only a few weeks ago 5 hunt sabs were convicted of offences relating to intimidating and attacking a group of hunt supporters including a young girl. Sabs are much better at communicating this stuff than the hunting community but there are multiple incidents on both sides. The bad eggs mentioned are significant because they remain very active in anti hunt activities. It doesn't make any of the bad behaviour on either side alright really does it?

 

[Sandstone1]

What are hunts taking Thunderflashes out with them for? To throw at people? Or for some aspect of trail hunting I've never heard of?

I'm glad to hear she's recovered. Whatever she's done is unlikely to be excusable.

Not excusable??
Not like stabbing a fox to death with a pitchfork? Not like shooting hounds in the head? Not like blocking badger sets? etc etc
Thunder flashes??
Clearly to throw at hunt sabs to stop them watching what they get up to..... The fact remains that if hunts are not breaking the law why oh why are they so worried about sabs??? If they are doing nothing wrong they should not have any worries about sabs keeping a eye on them should they? Obviously they are not hunting illegally are they? Nothing to worry about what the sabs see and film nearly every day of the week. They are just going out for a nice trail hunt are they not? Even if that is in the middle of busy roads, railway tracks and even peoples gardens. In one case recently even inside someones house!

I do not know why the hunt sab hit by a car driven by a hunt supporter is in jail for but whatever it is does not justify someone trying to kill her.

 

[Millionwords]

Not excusable??
Not like stabbing a fox to death with a pitchfork? Not like shooting hounds in the head? Not like blocking badger sets? etc etc
Thunder flashes??
Clearly to throw at hunt sabs to stop them watching what they get up to..... The fact remains that if hunts are not breaking the law why oh why are they so worried about sabs??? If they are doing nothing wrong they should not have any worries about sabs keeping a eye on them should they? Obviously they are not hunting illegally are they? Nothing to worry about what the sabs see and film nearly every day of the week. They are just going out for a nice trail hunt are they not? Even if that is in the middle of busy roads, railway tracks and even peoples gardens. In one case recently even inside someones house!

I do not know why the hunt sab hit by a car driven by a hunt supporter is in jail for but whatever it is does not justify someone trying to kill her.

I wasn't suggesting anything hunts do is excusable, i was just saying it can't be good if she's been refused bail.

Its strange how hunts always respond with "but sabs did x"....like that excuses or justifies the far higher cases of hunts doing wrong. How about everyone just stops doing wrong because they know its wrong.

 

[ycbm]

Um, and now both Mel Broughton - well known hunt sab, arsonist and terrorist and Lisa Jaffrey (thankfully recovered from injuries sustained as a result of being hit by a car at a hunt meet) are remanded in custody with no bail. They are not exactly yer peace loving, non violent activists either. Petrol bombing (Mel Broughton) isn't a democratic protest...

I asked over an hour ago for you to point to a verifiable source for this. I don't think it's acceptable for you to name individuals unless you can do that.

I have googled (under the correct spelling of her name) and I can't find a word about this online. What's your source? What offence have they been alleged to have committed?
.

 

[palo1]

I asked over an hour ago for you to point to a verifiable source for this. I don't think it's acceptable for you to name individuals unless you can do that.

I have googled (under the correct spelling of her name) and I can't find a word about this online. What's your source? What offence have they been alleged to have committed?
.

The information was quite easily found and I have posted on the other thread. Posting what I did, where information is in the public domain is perfectly acceptable. For anyone who hasn't seen the other thread (or doesn't want to read it) the offence is one of interfering with animal research activities at MBR Acres animal testing in Cambridgeshire. The Home Office are actively involved with this station and so the security etc are taken very seriously. Mel Broughton is a convicted arsonist and terrorist and Lisa Jaffrey, in working with him to disrupt activities (as well as harrass and threaten staff) will be dealt with with considerable caution in terms of the safety of others. The fact that LJ has collaborated with MB is not great; there is clearly a bit of a fuzzy line about the safety of others in the cause of animal activism.

FWIW I find it hard to accept aspects of animal testing and I don't know enough about what the MBR beagles are used for to know whether I find that valid or not. It is potentially a very distressing subject and one in which many animals are implicated.

 

[Koweyka]

Um, and now both Mel Broughton - well known hunt sab, arsonist and terrorist and Lisa Jaffrey (thankfully recovered from injuries sustained as a result of being hit by a car at a hunt meet) are remanded in custody with no bail. They are not exactly yer peace loving, non violent activists either. Petrol bombing (Mel Broughton) isn't a democratic protest...

Um so by your reckoning because of two individuals it makes the rest of us fair game ?

 

[Koweyka]

The information was quite easily found and I have posted on the other thread. Posting what I did, where information is in the public domain is perfectly acceptable. For anyone who hasn't seen the other thread (or doesn't want to read it) the offence is one of interfering with animal research activities at MBR Acres animal testing in Cambridgeshire. The Home Office are actively involved with this station and so the security etc are taken very seriously. Mel Broughton is a convicted arsonist and terrorist and Lisa Jaffrey, in working with him to disrupt activities (as well as harrass and threaten staff) will be dealt with with considerable caution in terms of the safety of others. The fact that LJ has collaborated with MB is not great; there is clearly a bit of a fuzzy line about the safety of others in the cause of animal activism.

FWIW I find it hard to accept aspects of animal testing and I don't know enough about what the MBR beagles are used for to know whether I find that valid or not. It is potentially a very distressing subject and one in which many animals are implicated.

When the beagles puppies are around 16 weeks old they are loaded into vans and driven across country for chemical and toxicology tests. Have you ever been to Camp Beagle and heard the puppies whining and barking as they are shipped off for really inhumane tests before they are killed ? The whole country should be up in arms about this and the testing stopped immediately.

 

[palo1]

Um so by your reckoning because of two individuals it makes the rest of us fair game ?

I have certainly never suggested that.

 

[palo1]

When the beagles puppies are around 16 weeks old they are loaded into vans and driven across country for chemical and toxicology tests. Have you ever been to Camp Beagle and heard the puppies whining and barking as they are shipped off for really inhumane tests before they are killed ? The whole country should be up in arms about this and the testing stopped immediately.

Yes, it is extremely difficult, even impossible for some people, to accept the necessity of animal training. I don't know what testing these poor beagles are being used for so I cannot say whether I think that is legitimate tbh. I do know that potentially it is better that we test using animals in the UK than use off shore testing but it is a very unpleasant aspect of society. Would people be prepared to accept the consequences of no animal testing I wonder? I mean there would be some price to pay for that welfare decision but I suspect that if it came to it, many people would prefer testing on animals than people. I completely understand the revulsion around animal testing but that doesn't legitimise terrorism or illegal activity.

 

[Koweyka]

Another hunt attacking people’s pets, should all be banned from going out.

BREAKING: We've received reports that the Lincolnshire-based Brocklesby Hunt mauled a pet cat, Matrix, yesterday.

Following the attack by the pack of hounds, the cat is currently in a critical condition at a veterinary centre.

More to follow.