Hunting is in a spot of bother

[palo1]

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=145014865087856&set=a.136888669233809 - Results of the Disciplinary panel today. AVH to be expelled from the BHSA with the likelihood of the hunt being permanently disbanded. The general consensus amongst trail hunting groups is that this is absolutely necessary and that none of those involved should be in any way welcome in any hunting activities in the future. Until the process of the panel is complete all hunting activities of the AVH are suspended. I know absolutely no-one who is anything but appalled by what has gone on.

 

[Clodagh]

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=145014865087856&set=a.136888669233809 - Results of the Disciplinary panel today. AVH to be expelled from the BHSA with the likelihood of the hunt being permanently disbanded. The general consensus amongst trail hunting groups is that this is absolutely necessary and that none of those involved should be in any way welcome in any hunting activities in the future. Until the process of the panel is complete all hunting activities of the AVH are suspended. I know absolutely no-one who is anything but appalled by what has gone on.

I am completely astounded and delighted by this. I never thought I’d see the day!

 

[Sandstone1]

Yet another nail in the coffin. Its time ALL hunting was stopped. The " Smokescreen" is getting thinner by the day.

 

[Clodagh]

I don't understand. Hunts on private estates with very little exposure to the general public sounds to me like heaven for them. They would be able to get away with anything.

I meant at least it would stop trespass and road blocking et al.

 

[Clodagh]

What actually happens to these vile people who are clearly breaking the law left right and centre? Are their "packs" disbanded and are the people actually fined / sent to prison? I sure hope so.

the governing body has done, in this case, the most it can. Whether there will be a criminal case I don’t know.

 

[palo1]

the governing body has done, in this case, the most it can. Whether there will be a criminal case I don’t know.

the governing body has done, in this case, the most it can. Whether there will be a criminal case I don’t know.

I hope it indicates that at last the governing body has some b*lls and will end the stupidity of the last few years where incidents of appalling behaviour have either been 'tolerated' by those at the top or covered up. There are still many, many people invested in decent legal trail hunting, people who want to see it survive and the arrogance, stupidity and vileness of this kind of behaviour has NEVER been acceptable to ordinary hunting people. I think and hope that at last, somehow the BHSA has realised that they do have the support of the majority of hunters this action (expelling the stupid AVH). Where I am, hunts have had very little to do with the MFHA as was in recent years, because of the realisation that they would not discipline bad or even illegal behaviour. Decent hunts have not wanted that association. I hope this does signal a change where the BHSA can actually hold their heads up and act genuinely for the good of hound sports. I also hope that the AVH foxhounds are quickly drafted to decent, knowledgeable hunts. I have no words for the total f***tards of the AVH...

 

[CrunchieBoi]

As someone who supports legal trail hunting I find this sickening.
Even pre-ban this would have been seen as abhorrent by many within the hunting community. There is nothing about this that could be called sport. It’s just slaughter.
IMO digging out has always been poor practice and rightly discouraged by the MFA pre-ban. If the fox went to ground, the fox won the game.
There is nothing to defend here. I hope they all go down for this as they deserve to, but unfortunately I feel they are likely to take the hunts working hard to trail hunt legally with them.

I imagine the two or three hunts that make some attempt to hunt legally will be seething right enough.

 

[Sossigpoker]

And the vile Stuart Radbourne has been sacked as master of Berks and Bucks drug hounds and their hounds removed from Avon Vale kennels.
Hopefully this is the end of the violent Avon Vale and I'd love to see Radbourne and his thugs in prison.

 

[SilverLinings]

These days Eggesford have more of a quadbike following than they have riders. A handful of quads equipped with terriers and terriermen desperate to dig out a fox were following them around all day.

(The quote above was from a report quoted by Pady, not their own words)
This isn't hunting to 'preserve the tradition'/'for the sport'/'for the love of the countryside etc' they are just thugs speeding around tearing up the countryside in search of something to kill.

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=145014865087856&set=a.136888669233809 - Results of the Disciplinary panel today. AVH to be expelled from the BHSA with the likelihood of the hunt being permanently disbanded. The general consensus amongst trail hunting groups is that this is absolutely necessary and that none of those involved should be in any way welcome in any hunting activities in the future. Until the process of the panel is complete all hunting activities of the AVH are suspended. I know absolutely no-one who is anything but appalled by what has gone on.

I am really pleased and VERY surprised that the BHSA have finally got a grip and realised that they have been signing their own death warrant by not seriously sanctioning illegal hunters before now.

With regards to the video, I haven't watched it but the article says that there are enthusiastic mounted followers present and watching: shouldn't anyone who appears on that video to be taking part be up for prosecution for being involved in an illegal activity? If it was clear what was going on and they stayed to watch until the end then they are complicit (and they are funding the hunt staff). It would send a stronger message to hunts and followers, as if you work for the hunt then it seems easy to get another job if you get convicted, but it won't be so easy for the others so may be a deterrent.

 

[Sossigpoker]

(The quote above was from a report quoted by Pady, not their own words)
This isn't hunting to 'preserve the tradition'/'for the sport'/'for the love of the countryside etc' they are just thugs speeding around tearing up the countryside in search of something to kill.



I am really pleased and VERY surprised that the BHSA have finally got a grip and realised that they have been signing their own death warrant by not seriously sanctioning illegal hunters before now.

With regards to the video, I haven't watched it but the article says that there are enthusiastic mounted followers present and watching: shouldn't anyone who appears on that video to be taking part be up for prosecution for being involved in an illegal activity? If it was clear what was going on and they stayed to watch until the end then they are complicit (and they are funding the hunt staff). It would send a stronger message to hunts and followers, as if you work for the hunt then it seems easy to get another job if you get convicted, but it won't be so easy for the others so may be a deterrent.

Yes absolutely the followers should be prosecuted as well. But the chances of even getting Radbourne prosecuted are quite low given the complicit and corrupt Wiltshire police

 

[TGM]

I imagine the saving grace for bloodhounds is they hunt on private estates, so have very little exposure to the general public.

That may be true in your area but certainly not in ours. Our local bloodhound pack hunt on a variety of areas, some may be big estates, some may be small farms (all with permission of course) but being in the SE most are criss-crossed with public lanes, bridle paths and footpaths which are generally teeming with the general public. Plus the meets themselves are often in public locations such outside pubs etc. But that is no problem because there is nothing to hide and it is a good opportunity to speak to people and explain how bloodhounding works. The majority are both supportive and fascinated when they understand what goes on.

 

[teapot]

Stupidity? You seriously expect the general public to believe anything that those who hunt with hounds say after this?

It's all right for those of us with a background in hunting, countryside sports and breeds of dog to instantly differentiate between hunting the clean boot and other forms of hunting, but why should the public believe anything that any of the hunting fraternity say?

Bloodhounding may be a tad safer from a complete ban than drag hunting as it uses a different breed of hounds and a human runner, but it's still a group of dressed up riders on horses tearing round the countryside after a pack of hounds insisting that no wildlife is harmed. But all hunts say that...

While I don't disagree that hunting has effectively shot itself in both feet these days, my point was there is an element of ignorance and stupidity when it comes to what people think of those riding their horses across farmland, estates etc. There always has been an automatic assumption made of those who ride/have horses, and that one pack of hounds is identical to another.

The poster expecting people to differentiate between hounds and bloodhounds is hoping for a lot I feel, but I do think there is an element of people only want to assume what's in front of them, rather than actually engage and educate themselves that it may well be a bloodhound pack for example.

My local bloodhound pack certainly doesn't stick to private estates either...

 

[ycbm]

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=145014865087856&set=a.136888669233809 - Results of the Disciplinary panel today. AVH to be expelled from the BHSA with the likelihood of the hunt being permanently disbanded. The general consensus amongst trail hunting groups is that this is absolutely necessary and that none of those involved should be in any way welcome in any hunting activities in the future. Until the process of the panel is complete all hunting activities of the AVH are suspended. I know absolutely no-one who is anything but appalled by what has gone on.

About time.

 

[Nudibranch]

Unfortunately exactly the same goes on in my ex local hunt. Protected by a northerly location, they generally get away lightly with any sab activity. I've personally seen them release two foxes in a walled wood before a hunt. They're also known for breeding foxes, although I can't remember whether anyone was prosecuted (I think that was another nearby hunt). There's a H&H writer who should hang their head in shame, they will know full well what happens.

 

[Sossigpoker]

Does anyone know how the video came to light as no sabs were there? Did someone manage to infiltrate the scum or was it accidentally shared ? Just curious!

 

[SilverLinings]

Does anyone know how the video came to light as no sabs were there? Did someone manage to infiltrate the scum or was it accidentally shared ? Just curious!

I suspect the sharer of the video is being very careful not to reveal who they are. It looks like it must have been either someone who was there at the time (and therefore involved if no monitors or sabs were there), or a friend/relation of the person who recorded it, and they must be very aware that it will make quite a few people very angry if they find out someone involved/close to them leaked it, especially after the BHSA's response. I hope that rather than it being leaked by accident it was someone involved with the hunt who realised how wrong it was, as that would at least slightly improve my faith in humanity with regards to this incident.

 

[Tiddlypom]

It remains to be seen whether the actions taken by the BHSA against the AVH are just a localised firefight or the start of actual effective governance of trail hunting. It speaks volumes that people are so surprised that the BHSA actually took significant action against the AVH, but they only did what any competent governing body would have done. The BHSA has indeed facilitated the despicable actions shown in the video by its complete failure to address and deal with those so called trail hunts who regularly hunt illegally.

The Avon Vale have been one of the known naughty hunts for years, and the governing body has faciltated their crimes by apathy (at best) or complicit approval (at worst).

If the BHSA really mean to reform, step up and govern effectively, they have way to go.

One of the joint masters of the AVH had a conviction for wildlife crime (badger sett disturbance). No one with a conviction for any sort of wildlife crime, let alone illegal hunting, should be permitted to remain a BHSA member or to follow or be employed by a registered pack.

 

[suestowford]

It is alarming that hunts will employ those with convictions. Is there a shortage of hunstmen/women, that they think a criminal is their best option?

Meanwhile in Cornwall the sabs have a new tactic. They film if they see one of the hounds taking a dump. If no-one picks up the mess they send the film to the Council who will fine for this. Apparently there has already been a fine issued and as I understand it, repeat offenders find the fine gets larger.

 

[palo1]

...One of the joint masters of the AVH had a conviction for wildlife crime (badger sett disturbance). No one with a conviction for any sort of wildlife crime, let alone illegal hunting, should be permitted to remain a BHSA member or to follow or be employed by a registered pack.

Absolutely wholeheartedly agree with this! Credit where it is due though, the BHSA have actually clearly taken the right disciplinary action against a relatively wealthy and influential hunt. That is good news to me because it signals that for whatever reason, there really is now some determination to deal with appalling behaviour, whoever is involved. The BHSA made the right and only possible decision. It's not much but it is a whole world of improvement on previous governance and discipline.

 

[Sossigpoker]

Absolutely wholeheartedly agree with this! Credit where it is due though, the BHSA have actually clearly taken the right disciplinary action against a relatively wealthy and influential hunt. That is good news to me because it signals that for whatever reason, there really is now some determination to deal with appalling behaviour, whoever is involved. The BHSA made the right and only possible decision. It's not much but it is a whole world of improvement on previous governance and discipline.

They're not wealthy or certainly the Radbournes aren't!

 

[palo1]

They're not wealthy or certainly the Radbournes aren't!

No, I wasn't referring to individuals tbh but AVH are well established and have wealth in their ranks. They are a very, very long way, in every way possible to the trail hunting I am familiar with. Thank goodness they are finished.

 

[Sossigpoker]

No, I wasn't referring to individuals tbh but AVH are well established and have wealth in their ranks. They are a very, very long way, in every way possible to the trail hunting I am familiar with. Thank goodness they are finished.

I hope your last statement is true. There will be a celebration if that happens. There is so much hatred locally for them - well deserved- and particularly for Radbourne. Again, well deserved.

 

[palo1]

I suspect the sharer of the video is being very careful not to reveal who they are. It looks like it must have been either someone who was there at the time (and therefore involved if no monitors or sabs were there), or a friend/relation of the person who recorded it, and they must be very aware that it will make quite a few people very angry if they find out someone involved/close to them leaked it, especially after the BHSA's response. I hope that rather than it being leaked by accident it was someone involved with the hunt who realised how wrong it was, as that would at least slightly improve my faith in humanity with regards to this incident.

Even back in the day when fox hunting was legal, the behaviour of those shown in this clip would not have been tolerated (at least not with any pack I have ever been out with). Foxes bolted should never have been near hounds and the only people near underground foxes would or should have been the huntsman, possibly a whip or two and the terrier men. The catcalling and laughter would not have been remotely appropriate and would have been considered very uncouth/odd/ignorant. Just YUK! Hounds (BITD) should have been distant, kept together and under control, not wandering around freely. Terrier work is still legal of course so the use of terriers underground is not a crime. Those foxes should, legally, have been shot if that was what was required.

 

[ester]

I’m curious what the actual impact of not being a bhsa member cos you got chucked out is?

 

[Sossigpoker]

I’m curious what the actual impact of not being a bhsa member cos you got chucked out is?

I believe this means they can't get insurance and therefore shouldn't really be out hunting. Although knowing Radbourne a little thing like insurance won't stop him from his psychotic blood lust !

 

[Sossigpoker]

I’m curious what the actual impact of not being a bhsa member cos you got chucked out is?

And the whatever association he's been kicked out of have banned him drom hunting. Plus he and kennelman Aaron Fooks have been arrested !

 

[Clodagh]

l

I’m curious what the actual impact of not being a bhsa member cos you got chucked out is?

As SP says, insurance. No hunt would risk going out without it.

 

[Sossigpoker]

Stuart Radbourne and Aaron Fookes (kennelman) have been arrested today!
As Radbourne has a previous conviction for wildlife crime , let's hope he gets charged and ends up in prison where he belongs.

 

[lizziebell]

Meanwhile in Cornwall the sabs have a new tactic. They film if they see one of the hounds taking a dump. If no-one picks up the mess they send the film to the Council who will fine for this. Apparently there has already been a fine issued and as I understand it, repeat offenders find the fine gets larger.

Never even thought of this before, but actually now it’s been pointed out - they have got a point. Dog owners have responsibility to clear up after their dogs, so why should hounds be different. As far as I’m aware hound poop is just as toxic to people and livestock as a pet dogs. You see all these stories of farmers livestock aborting due to coming into contact with dog poop, but whose to say it’s not from the local hunt going through their land ? !

 

[CrunchieBoi]

Looks as though the footage originated from a WhatsApp group and that the new governing body have known about it for at least a month if hunting leaks is correct.

Not sure how to post a link, but it's the first news item on the hunting leaks news page.