Hunting is in a spot of bother

[Burnttoast]

but not now given fair lead.

Tbh I find the concept of giving a hare a 'fair lead' just bizarre, like the hare isn't actually running for its life. Calling these activities sports/sporting does such a huge disservice to the wild animals that are used for the entertainment of humans.

 

[Burnttoast]

I just want to add that I am forever bemused by people from the countryside with a superiority complex who gate keep rural living as if they are guardians of the land, whilst their hobbies involve terrorising the wildlife and showing no respect for nature whatsoever. The mind boggles.

Most of the people who gatekeep the countryside so loudly, it turns out, know practically nothing about natural history and have less interest in it. The ones I know to speak to can't identify most of the common birds and plants that are all around them, and don't understand a lot of animal behaviours either. They're keen on killing things, though.

 

[Tiddlypom]

The ITV early evening tv news carried a 3 minute segment reported by Rupert Evelyn on the Avon Vale Hunt self filmed fox digging incident. The footage looks even worse on the big screen . Chris Packham gave a heart felt response condemning so called trail hunting, which will p1ss the pro illegal hunters off immensely.

The police are looking into it.

Chris Packham said: "To witness this barbarity, this pre-meditated callous cruelty inflicted on a wild animal in the UK countryside in the 21st century is absolutely sickening.

"But this is the brutal face of fox hunting. This is not an isolated incident. We see this week in week out and the hunts have been exposed. They have been exposed for saying that they practice trail hunting -as indeed this hunt proclaimed as well.

"Well, that is not trail hunting. That is fox hunting pure and simple, and it is illegal. And I sincerely hope that all of those who are identifiable in this video are brought to justice.

 

[Koweyka]

The pro hunt pages are in uproar not because they fed a live fox to hounds but because they got caught doing it.

 

[TGM]

I honestly don't understand how anyone can support hunting anymore …
I am praying for the day when hunting is finally completely banned, because until it is, incidents like these aren't going to stop.

How are you defining’hunting’? Are you including drag hunting and ‘hunting the clean boot’ (bloodhounding)?

 

[Dave's Mam]

Oh I turned the TV on just as that fox being dug out clip was aired. What vile people.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Incidents such as this endanger the future of drag hunting and hunting the clean boot too. The pro illegal hunters won't give a toss as they drag you down with them.

 

[Miss_Millie]

How are you defining’hunting’? Are you including drag hunting and ‘hunting the clean boot’ (bloodhounding)?

Trail hunting.

But the average person would not know the difference if they saw horses with a pack of hounds out in the countryside, and the constant illegal activity from 'trail hunters' has tarred all hunting with the same brush as far as the general public are concerned.

 

[Dave's Mam]

Incidents such as this endanger the future of drag hunting and hunting the clean boot too. The pro illegal hunters won't give a toss as they drag you down with them.

I hope that perhaps the fact that Bloodhounds look rather different, MIGHT help differentiate the Clean Boot.

 

[teapot]

I hope that perhaps the fact that Bloodhounds look rather different, MIGHT help differentiate the Clean Boot.

You'd hope so, but never underestimate the stupidity of the human race when it comes to a group of hounds and a load of riders in show kit

 

[Burnttoast]

You'd hope so, but never underestimate the stupidity of the human race when it comes to a group of hounds and a load of riders in show kit

I'm not sure it's the responsibility of the general public to differentiate between groups of people on horses with a bunch of dogs in the countryside.

 

[teapot]

I'm not sure it's the responsibility of the general public to differentiate between groups of people on horses with a bunch of dogs in the countryside.

A little bit of education and common sense goes a long way...

 

[Burnttoast]

A little bit of education and common sense goes a long way...

?? Again, not their responsibility. If education is felt by followers of bloodhounds etc. to be needed it's up to them to provide it, although the audience may be an uninterested one.

 

[CrunchieBoi]

It's when you stop to think about the sordid purpose of recording the event in the first place that you realise just how disturbing the whole thing is. The gleeful participants paint a far more sinister picture of trail hunting than covert footage of hounds being trained on live fox cubs.

 

[emilylou]

As someone who supports legal trail hunting I find this sickening.
Even pre-ban this would have been seen as abhorrent by many within the hunting community. There is nothing about this that could be called sport. It’s just slaughter.
IMO digging out has always been poor practice and rightly discouraged by the MFA pre-ban. If the fox went to ground, the fox won the game.
There is nothing to defend here. I hope they all go down for this as they deserve to, but unfortunately I feel they are likely to take the hunts working hard to trail hunt legally with them.

 

[Tiddlypom]

You'd hope so, but never underestimate the stupidity of the human race when it comes to a group of hounds and a load of riders in show kit

Stupidity? You seriously expect the general public to believe anything that those who hunt with hounds say after this?

It's all right for those of us with a background in hunting, countryside sports and breeds of dog to instantly differentiate between hunting the clean boot and other forms of hunting, but why should the public believe anything that any of the hunting fraternity say?

Bloodhounding may be a tad safer from a complete ban than drag hunting as it uses a different breed of hounds and a human runner, but it's still a group of dressed up riders on horses tearing round the countryside after a pack of hounds insisting that no wildlife is harmed. But all hunts say that...

 

[Clodagh]

I imagine the saving grace for bloodhounds is they hunt on private estates, so have very little exposure to the general public. Tbh so should all forms of hunting nowadays.
But people doing things like throwing those foxes to the hounds will bring the end to it all, ultimately.
What I don’t understand is they could have shot the foxes and thrown them to the hounds to ‘break up’. That used to be done on occasion. At least the poor things would have been dead and not carried around by their scruffs and then thrown into the pack. It beggars belief.

 

[Clodagh]

As someone who supports legal trail hunting I find this sickening.
Even pre-ban this would have been seen as abhorrent by many within the hunting community. There is nothing about this that could be called sport. It’s just slaughter.
IMO digging out has always been poor practice and rightly discouraged by the MFA pre-ban. If the fox went to ground, the fox won the game.
There is nothing to defend here. I hope they all go down for this as they deserve to, but unfortunately I feel they are likely to take the hunts working hard to trail hunt legally with them.

I agree with most of what you say but digging the fox and dispatching it was often a prerequisite of the landowner to allow the hunt on their land. Bolting it again was a different matter.

 

[Clodagh]

The only way to deal with this sort of thing is to have the hearing and investigation filmed and made public.
When the master turns up at the hearing it will only be in front of his chums from Cirencester.
My prediction, they’ll sack the whipper in and the master and huntsman will take the rest of the season off. All back to normal on the 1st May.

 

[Koweyka]

They let Ollie Finnegan carry on as normal this season despite pleading guilty in court to illegal fox hunting, he killed again on Saturday how can the BHSA have any credibility at all to deal with this, will be a brush it under the carpet job.

The comments on pro hunt sites continue to be about being caught and nothing for the fox, can you imagine the terror held by its ruff looking at hounds and humans then being launched to the hounds to rip apart and the one that bolted and chased, they were likely a family and the vixen pregnant.

Another nail in the already sealed coffin. I despise the whole disgusting lot of them.

 

[Clodagh]

They let Ollie Finnegan carry on as normal this season despite pleading guilty in court to illegal fox hunting, he killed again on Saturday how can the BHSA have any credibility at all to deal with this, will be a brush it under the carpet job.

The comments on pro hunt sites continue to be about being caught and nothing for the fox, can you imagine the terror held by its ruff looking at hounds and humans then being launched to the hounds to rip apart and the one that bolted and chased, they were likely a family and the vixen pregnant.

Another nail in the already sealed coffin. I despise the whole disgusting lot of them.

I’m only on one, hunting kind I think it is. The silence is deafening bar ‘let’s wait and see’.

 

[sakura]

If the fox went to ground, the fox won the game.

With respect, the fox is not playing a game, it is trying to survive.

 

[SEL]

You have to wonder about the stupidity of people filming that and those allowing it to be filmed. They must think they are completely above the law.

I'm forever saying it but for hunting to continue those who enjoy legitimate trail hunting need to start to put pressure on those packs which break the law. Change has to come from inside the hunting community or it will just be banned in its entirety.

 

[emilylou]

With respect, the fox is not playing a game, it is trying to survive.

I know, its a figure of speech. But pre-ban there were lots of terms that were used within the hunting community that referred to foxhunting in a playful manner. Hunt folk fondly referring to their quarry as 'Charlie' is one.
Foxhunting pre-ban was always a life and death situation for the fox but what I would consider to be 'proper hunting people' would hunt with certain respect for their quarry and operated in a way that acknowledged this. One of those ways being that if the fox went to ground it had 'won' and would not be dug from its den and thrown to hounds in such a way that awful video demonstrates. Fox hunting was something that required skill, and hunters would acknowledge a fit, healthy fox may get away and let him do so.

 

[MagicMelon]

What actually happens to these vile people who are clearly breaking the law left right and centre? Are their "packs" disbanded and are the people actually fined / sent to prison? I sure hope so. I find even the words used in this post so distasteful but then again I can never understand anyone who finds joy in dressing up to make a sport out of chasing a defenceless animal then watching it get ripped apart by dogs. Genuinely Im baffled people can actually watch this and even take their kids along on their ponies to participate. There's a pack near me who have started doing "fun" rides so literally just a heap of horses going for a nice fast hack together with some jumps along the way, Id love to do this but cant bring myself to support what is a proper pack otherwise. Perhaps this is the way to go - just get rid of the fox completely out of the equation, do away with a scent being laid etc. and just have a route round nice estates that they all go. Simple and no harm done to any animal.

 

[SEL]

What actually happens to these vile people who are clearly breaking the law left right and centre?

Not a lot really it seems. Some minor fines and then they're back at work.

 

[Tiddlypom]

What actually happens to these vile people who are clearly breaking the law left right and centre? Are their "packs" disbanded and are the people actually fined / sent to prison?

Good question.

https://www.itv.com/news/2022-12-06/man-admits-illegally-hunting-with-dogs-after-police-unearth-fox-hunting-texts

The former Quorn huntsman pleased guilty in Dec '22 to charges of illegal hunting while at the Quorn, was fined £656, and the very next day was back out working as huntsman for his new pack, where he remains. So he is still in hunt employment despite his shiny new conviction.

The powers that be that oversee hunting haven't even got the intelligence to deduce that a person who has been convicted of wildlife crimes should be barred from being employed by or following a registered hunt.

 

[paddy555]

I imagine the saving grace for bloodhounds is they hunt on private estates, so have very little exposure to the general public. Tbh so should all forms of hunting nowadays.

I don't understand. Hunts on private estates with very little exposure to the general public sounds to me like heaven for them. They would be able to get away with anything.

 

[paddy555]

I apologise if this has been posted already. There are so many incidents I simply cannot keep up. When will it end?

EGGESFORD HUNT KILL FOX - 3.2.23
Yesterday Eggesford Hunt killed a fox. Upon reviewing footage from the incident, we are certain this fox was thrown to the hounds by terriermen. Read on and watch the footage to see for yourself.
These days Eggesford have more of a quadbike following than they have riders. A handful of quads equipped with terriers and terriermen desperate to dig out a fox were following them around all day. They were hunting in the Iddesleigh/Monkokehampton area, drawing fields and woods around Ash House, Beerland, Ingleigh Green, Hawksland and Middlecott before turning tail and heading west towards Mill Farm, Iddesleigh Bridge, Nethercott Barton, Bridge Town and Rectory Farm.
We had several teams of sabs on foot, as well as our drone which was keeping tabs on their movements and filming from the sky. Our runners stuck with hounds most of the day and multiple foxes were seen to safety. At least three foxes were marked to ground at various points but we guarded these locations to prevent a digout. Terriermen would arrive at the scene only to find sabs already there waiting. Despite what happened later, there is no doubt that numerous foxes are alive today because sabs were there.
At one point sabs were running with the hunt and witnessed one of the riders carelessly trampling a hound. The rider lashed out, beating the horse hard with his riding crop. Horses, hounds, foxes, companion animals and farm animals are all victims of the hunt. Towards the end of the day, the hunt were on land they had no permission to be on and hounds were causing havoc amongst a flock of sheep. We could hear the landowner shouting at huntsman Jason Marles and being completely ignored by him.
Not long after that, this footage was taken. You can see two sabs following Jason and hounds along the road towards Weekmoor Cross. He points at a field and shortly after enters that field with the hounds. A quadbike with two terriermen is in the field with him. One terrierman is standing to the right of the quad, doing something with one of the boxes on the quad (this is hard to see, but watch in HD, zoom in, go frame by frame and you’ll see it). Meanwhile the other terrierman has closed the gate and tells sabs to “hold on” while looking over towards where the quadbike is parked. He clearly knows something is about to happen. The hounds are just in front of the quad. The quad drives off. Seconds later, hounds are tearing at the fox’s body. Jason rides over to sabs and claims that “a rabbit jumped out” (of the hedge). Sabs then run in and retrieve the fox’s body.
We can’t say for certain whether the fox was still alive when he was thrown to the hounds. Hunts sometimes bring live foxes ('bag foxes') along to release to hounds for a guaranteed chase. It’s possible this fox was dug out earlier in the day and held captive. The fox might have been stunned and confused when he was released from the quad, failed to run and was killed instantly. The other possibility is that the terriermen had freshly dugout and killed the fox from somewhere nearby and had arranged to meet hounds in this field to throw them the body as a reward. We wouldn’t put it past this hunt to do this in front of sabs as a show of defiance after they’d had an otherwise frustrating day. There was no sign on the fox’s freshly mauled body that he’d been shot but he was still warm when sabs picked him up, so had either been killed just then or shortly before.
Whatever the precise detail, Eggesford Hunt killed this fox yesterday and tried to pretend it was a rabbit. Whether hunts claim they’re trail-hunting or rabbit-hunting (which, believe it or not, was Jason’s latest lie when being investigated by police for another incident!), the truth is revealed again and again.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Hunting is done. And rightly so with the way they have been carrying on. If they had played by the rules they wouldn't be in this situation.