suestowford
Well-Known Member
It's the same round here too, only I'd have left out the last 3 words.
Hunting is in a spot of bother
- Thread starter Tiddlypom
- Start date
paddy555
Well-Known Member
exactly the same here down in Devon. Some farms don't allow them so there is no connection between private land and some farms would very much like not to allow them but they have no choice.
We also have frequent use of roads and tracks. Without the use of roads they wouldn't be able to get anywhere.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
This is from the main Countryside Alliance website, showing that Lord Daresbury is a current elected member of the Board of the Countryside Alliance.
The only thing that I find surprising about the video of of the two men running then driving away from an apparently very recently disturbed badger sett is that the hunt would send two of their core hunt servants (old money term) out to block badger setts. The normal modus is to use the more disposable terrier men to do the dirty work then, if they get caught at it, the hunt deny that they were operating on behalf of the hunt.
Oh, and this is the same hunt recently recklessly creating chaos on a double white lined rural road. I posted this same video a few pages back. This is ruddy dangerous behaviour. Amongst it all hounds and a hunt horse are sent blind by the hunt out onto the road, narrowly being missed by both an HGV and a hunt quad. If that HGV had been laden there would be have been carnage. No evidence of anti interference, the group who posted it do normally just film.
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The only thing that I find surprising about the video of of the two men running then driving away from an apparently very recently disturbed badger sett is that the hunt would send two of their core hunt servants (old money term) out to block badger setts. The normal modus is to use the more disposable terrier men to do the dirty work then, if they get caught at it, the hunt deny that they were operating on behalf of the hunt.
Oh, and this is the same hunt recently recklessly creating chaos on a double white lined rural road. I posted this same video a few pages back. This is ruddy dangerous behaviour. Amongst it all hounds and a hunt horse are sent blind by the hunt out onto the road, narrowly being missed by both an HGV and a hunt quad. If that HGV had been laden there would be have been carnage. No evidence of anti interference, the group who posted it do normally just film.
STILL WAITING FOR WEST MERCIA POLICE TO TAKE ACTION ! This serious incident was reported to West Mercia Police over a month ago and we are still waiting... | By Cheshire Monitors | Facebook
STILL WAITING FOR WEST MERCIA POLICE TO TAKE ACTION ! This serious incident was reported to West Mercia Police over a month ago and we are still waiting...
fb.watch
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palo1
Well-Known Member
The person filming this incident was putting their hands all over the soil at the entrance as well as all over the old bedding material. Their scent would be everywhere and could encourage a nursing badger enough concern to want to move their cubs. Resident badgers would absolutely know that there had been someone right at the entrances to the sett.
As for the point about the landowners, well there are landowners who wish to see the end of their badgers (usually in relation to TB) - I am not saying they are, but they may be absolutely complicit in this action. If not, then presumably these people are trespassing also, as is the person filming this possibly. Why do people (all sorts of people) think they can just go where they like??
Millionwords
Well-Known Member
The same hunt who's servants were found guilty of interfering with a badger sett in 2021 to get a bagged fox.This is from the main Countryside Alliance website, showing that Lord Daresbury is a current elected member of the Countryside Alliance.
View attachment 107881
The only thing that I find surprising about the video of of the two men running then driving away from an apparently very recently disturbed badger sett is that the hunt would send two of their core hunt servants (old money term) out to block badger setts. The normal modus is to use the more disposable terrier men to do the dirty work then, if they get caught at it, the hunt deny that they were operating on behalf of the hunt.
Oh, and this is the same hunt recently recklessly creating chaos on a double white lined rural road. I posted this same video a few pages back. This is ruddy dangerous behaviour. Amongst it all hounds and a hunt horse are sent blind by the hunt out onto the road, narrowly being missed by both an HGV and a hunt quad. If that HGV had been laden there would be have been carnage. No evidence of anti interference, the group who posted it do normally just film.
STILL WAITING FOR WEST MERCIA POLICE TO TAKE ACTION ! This serious incident was reported to West Mercia Police over a month ago and we are still waiting... | By Cheshire Monitors | Facebook
STILL WAITING FOR WEST MERCIA POLICE TO TAKE ACTION ! This serious incident was reported to West Mercia Police over a month ago and we are still waiting...
Who's huntsman (Woodward) was charged with illegal hunting in June 2022,
Millionwords
Well-Known Member
Just come across this...
Interesting number of "isolated incidents"
investigations, prosecutions, convictions and bans
A long list for the last couple of years.
Interesting number of "isolated incidents"
investigations, prosecutions, convictions and bans
A long list for the last couple of years.
palo1
Well-Known Member
Yes. It's not exactly an objective list though and doesn't in any way include any sab related incidents or differentiate between different types of incident. The Ministry of Justice figures are more accurate/genuine. Some of those incidents are truly shocking though.
Millionwords
Well-Known Member
By law they would not be guilty from identifying, and filming, even with the small amount of touch;
Interfering with badger setts.
[F1(1)]A person is guilty of an offence if, except as permitted by or under this Act, he interferes with a badger sett by doing any of the following things—
(a)damaging a badger sett or any part of it;
(b)destroying a badger sett;
(c)obstructing access to, or any entrance of, a badger sett;
(d)causing a dog to enter a badger sett; or
(e)disturbing a badger when it is occupying a badger sett,
Natural Englands stance on Disturb:
What constitutes “disturbance” to a badger occupying a sett? The offence of disturbing a badger whilst it is occupying a sett has given rise to considerable debate over the years. The issue presents problems, not only in determining what might constitute disturbance, but also in proving that any badger had actually been disturbed. However, some general conclusions about the tolerance of badgers to potential disturbance at or near their setts can be drawn from their status throughout much of England and the situations in which they can be found. For example, badgers live in urban as well as rural areas, they are widespread and common, and they create setts under roads and railways and in urban gardens well used by children and pets. They therefore appear to be able to withstand significant amounts of noise or activity near to their setts without apparently being disturbed.
Millionwords
Well-Known Member
It is simply a list of facts. Where does objective come into it?
Its a list of the incidents hunts claim are rare.
These are the ones that have been captured, or dealt with by courts. How many haven't? So its not even likely to be a representation of the much higher likely numbers of incidents.
palo1
Well-Known Member
It is a list of lots of things including charges which have never held, court cases failed and real convictions for actual crimes. The picture given does not in any way reflect the equal and opposite group's (the sabs) similar incidents so cannot be seen to be the full picture. 2 wrongs don't make a right but these incidents don't all happen in isolation.
Millionwords
Well-Known Member
Two wrongs do not make a right...but why do them at all if youre going to end up in court (even if youre not) and you know its wrong?
Entitlement. That's what.
Millionwords
Well-Known Member
Today serious incident. It was only a matter of time before something other than a hound was hit by a car.
Shaken member of the public, injured horse, possibly seriously injured rider.
We can only hope both recover.
"There has been a serious incident at the North Staffs Hunt meet near Woore.
The driver of this vehicle is shaken up but unhurt after hunt riders emerged onto a busy road. A horse is injured and rider we believe may be seriously hurt. Many riders are packing up but the hunt have yet to return to the meet.
Ambulance and police arrived very quickly.
We will not be sharing further footage for the sake of the privacy of individuals involved, and we sincerely hope everybody involved is safe and okay."
Shaken member of the public, injured horse, possibly seriously injured rider.
We can only hope both recover.
"There has been a serious incident at the North Staffs Hunt meet near Woore.
The driver of this vehicle is shaken up but unhurt after hunt riders emerged onto a busy road. A horse is injured and rider we believe may be seriously hurt. Many riders are packing up but the hunt have yet to return to the meet.
Ambulance and police arrived very quickly.
We will not be sharing further footage for the sake of the privacy of individuals involved, and we sincerely hope everybody involved is safe and okay."
palo1
Well-Known Member
Entitlement. That's what....
Yeah and presumably that is the same reason that sabs have been convicted for assault and many other things too; they also feel entitled to behave appallingly. That shouldn't tar everyone who is anti-hunting with that same brush though should it? Or should I assume that because you support the sabs, that you too think those things are ok? There are people with all manner of views that feel entitled to behave badly; that is a reflection on individuals not the perspective that they are taking in this matter.
Millionwords
Well-Known Member
I don't support sabs or hunts....but seeing a list of actions hunts have committed and got into trouble for and saying "but sabs" is baffling.
It doesn't negate the hunt from any actions they have taken knowing they are illegal, or harmful.
palo1
Well-Known Member
I do understand that and agree BUT you are completely failing to acknowledge the context for some (not all!) of these incidents so the view you are both receiving and discussing is entirely one-sided. Considering the number of sabs, and the number of hunting people and hunts, the proportion of assaults and convictions for other anti-social acts for hunt saboteurs seems far, far higher than for hunts but no-one ever mentions that. It is just hugely frustrating tbh but there is no excuse for any of it really. I just wish that both sets of experiences would be acknowledged. Not very long ago at all (Nov/Dec 22) footage was put out by sabs of them obstructing a hunt; the huntsman/whip completely kept their cool in spite of considerable provocation and did the right thing; that happens time after time yet that is never really acknowledged or understood as context for some incidents.
moosea
Well-Known Member
Do you have a link where it shows 'the proportion of assaults and convictions for other anti-social acts for hunt saboteurs seems far, far higher than for hunts', not that those numbers would redeem hunting.
Millionwords
Well-Known Member
Is there somewhere these statistics can be found?
That is still saying "but sabs" it doesn't matter whos "worse" people who claim to be abiding by the law, who claim they are unfairly tarnished as criminals....
Are in fact regularly, well known to many including themselves, breaking laws and getting caught (less often than than they deserve).
Only toddlers say "but they do bad things too" in defence of their own bad actions so it is no defence for hunts or anyone else to say that.
sakura
Well-Known Member
I hope everyone, especially the horse, are okay.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
Cheshire Police Rural Crime Team are pretty clued up about blocked up badger setts, and if you read between the lines they are also pretty clued up about who might be doing the blocking 
.
They will not be the police force responsible for investigating the Wynnstay incident, though, that must have occurred just over the border into N.Wales.
ODD ONE OUT ?
Spot the odd one out? Let's be honest it's not particularly hard is it.
One is the entrance to a badger sett that has been left alone, the other two are sett entrances that have been blocked illegally using spades. (Obvious by the smooth spade marks and clean cuts through the roots)
These sett entrances are no further than a couple of hundred metres apart, what makes it frustrating is the blocked ones are off the beaten track hidden out of view, filling in numerous entrances is not typical of badger diggers/baiters.
This does add a piece to the bigger picture the team are looking at.
Interfering with a badger sett is an offence under the Protection of Badgers Act 1992.
We will continue to proactively monitor and use all available options to bring those that wish to commit Wildlife Crime to justice.
.They will not be the police force responsible for investigating the Wynnstay incident, though, that must have occurred just over the border into N.Wales.
ODD ONE OUT ?
Spot the odd one out? Let's be honest it's not particularly hard is it.
One is the entrance to a badger sett that has been left alone, the other two are sett entrances that have been blocked illegally using spades. (Obvious by the smooth spade marks and clean cuts through the roots)
These sett entrances are no further than a couple of hundred metres apart, what makes it frustrating is the blocked ones are off the beaten track hidden out of view, filling in numerous entrances is not typical of badger diggers/baiters.
This does add a piece to the bigger picture the team are looking at.
Interfering with a badger sett is an offence under the Protection of Badgers Act 1992.
We will continue to proactively monitor and use all available options to bring those that wish to commit Wildlife Crime to justice.
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Miss_Millie
Well-Known Member
Something I have been pondering whilst thinking about this awful crash today...why do hunters not wear hi-viz? The BHS found that wearing hi-viz means motorists will spot you 3 seconds sooner. I am assuming they do not wear it for aesthetic reasons/tradition? I would never dream of riding on the roads without hi-viz, regardless of how busy the road is. It isn't worth the risk imo.
meleeka
Well-Known Member
The answer is simple. They own the road and everyone should get out of their way
palo1
Well-Known Member
I have never said that anything is ok because someone else does something 'worse'! What I have said, several times is that it is simply daft to pick out acts of bad behaviour without accepting the context. I don't support bad behaviour or animal cruelty in hunting and I absolutely respect the right of people to protest (legally). The argument that sabs do what they do because of hunting, absolutely accepts that there is a context for their behaviour too; it has to work both ways...
Koweyka
Well-Known Member
We can be driving down a road with hounds maybe 20 metres in front of us and all of a sudden be surrounded by horses all wanting to get between us and the hounds, they ride really close to the back of the car, if we needed to stop suddenly for a hound for example we would have horses on our back seat, because they are so damn close. They swerve in front of us, we have had our wing mirror knocked off. It’s reckless and stupid and shows no consideration for their horses or road users.
palo1
Well-Known Member
It is about traditional dress and the historic notion that hunters are likely to be off road. Some still are. There is hi vis that is well supported by hunting people but is generally used on the way home in poor light. Hi vis is entirely possible but when given the option to have hi-vis built into my own hunt coat I opted not for that because unlike decent cavalry twill (the material my coat is made from) hi vis degrades quickly; the two materials are not really compatible. I carry hi vis in my pocket as do several of my friends. One of the best known companies designing hunt-inspired rainwear do a hi vis coat but again I would not choose that because of the short life of hi vis (relatively speaking).
Umm, also...why do not all cyclists or walkers wear hi vis, nor all horse riders actually? Presumably it is because they too 'own the road and everyone should get out of the way' (@meleeka)...
Further ETA - is that why all manner of people go walking on the hills poorly prepared (or looking for Pokemon), let their dogs chase sheep, ponies or cattle, wander through people's private yards, have picnics and barbeques on private land etc etc? Is it entitlement or that they feel they own the countryside and that everyone else should be prepared to rescue them, put up with fires, helium balloons, chinese lanterns, upset stock, trespass etc etc I genuinely don't believe anyone actually intends to cause problems - either in urban or rural areas but I suppose other people have less tolerant interpretations when things don't please them or suit their agenda...
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palo1
Well-Known Member
And I have had exactly the same treatment only this season from a bunch of sabs that were looking for a neighbouring hunt. A friend's pony with a child riding was actually hit by the sab vehicle which is well known to the local police and this incident was reported. The horse nor child were injured but frightened and no apology given. I could name the sabs involved but I am simply not going to do that.
Millionwords
Well-Known Member
"But what about cyclists, but what about walkers"
We're not talking about those, we're talking about hunts/field, since a horse and rider were hit by a car having emerged onto a field with no warning and possibly be seriously injured and also put the motorists in danger.
Most people don't walk through a hedge and into a road without looking or without precaution. Its not unreasonable to wonder how this would be stopped from occurring again.
Hopefully both rider and horse are okay (however they may well not be)
We're not talking about those, we're talking about hunts/field, since a horse and rider were hit by a car having emerged onto a field with no warning and possibly be seriously injured and also put the motorists in danger.
Most people don't walk through a hedge and into a road without looking or without precaution. Its not unreasonable to wonder how this would be stopped from occurring again.
Hopefully both rider and horse are okay (however they may well not be)
Millionwords
Well-Known Member
Onto a road*
Koweyka
Well-Known Member
Why isn’t that being plastered all over HFT or Countryside Alliance pages ?
Koweyka
Well-Known Member
Hunts should be made to provide an event plan that’s published and given times and locations where they will be crossing roads and they should have Marshall’s ….. but of course they would also need the agreement of the foxes they chase to join in with all of this …..
Millionwords
Well-Known Member
Even just marshalls would be of benefit! Although as you say, that suggests someone can provide the route to be taken in order for them to be far enough ahead to do said marshaling.