Hunting is in a spot of bother

[Tiddlypom]

I think this time the police were there keeping the peace as much as anything. It sounds like there was bedlam at a very recent meet, with sabs actively disrupting the hunt and making false horn calls, leading the pack to split up. Shots were apparently fired when a sub group of hounds entered a farmer's cow sheds, frightening his stock. Police helicopter was scrambled etc, patrol cars rushed in etc etc

I did foretell a return to madness due to the very unwise choice of new huntsman, who now has a conviction for illegal hunting but appears to still be hunting hounds.

We've had three years of peace, now this. I want to bang all their heads together. (Not the police, they are doing their best).

 

[webble]

I think this time the police were there keeping the peace as much as anything. It sounds like there was bedlam at a very recent meet, with sabs actively disrupting the hunt and making false horn calls, leading the pack to split up. Shots were apparently fired when a sub group of hounds entered a farmer's cow sheds, frightening his stock. Police helicopter was scrambled etc, patrol cars rushed in etc etc

I did foretell a return to madness due to the very unwise choice of new huntsman, who now has a conviction for illegal hunting but appears to still be hunting hounds.

We've had three years of peace, now this. I want to bang all their heads together. (Not the police, they are doing their best).

Oh god that poor farmer as if they haven't got enough to deal with

 

[Flowerofthefen]

I hope everyone, especially the horse, are okay.

Waste of emergency services that could be helping other people. Hope horse is ok, not overly worried about the rider. Their choice to put themselves in danger.

 

[Millionwords]

Waste of emergency services that could be helping other people. Hope horse is ok, not overly worried about the rider. Their choice to put themselves in danger.

They're still human, with a family!

 

[Flowerofthefen]

They're still human, with a family!

Their choice to take part. Jumping onto a road is just stupid. I doubt very much they were thinking about their family or the poor drivers family, or their poor horse.

 

[sakura]

I’m against hunting because I don’t like to see living beings scared or hurt - I include people in that. So I stand by my post. I hope everyone involved is okay - especially the horse, who as you pointed out did not choose to participate.

For the same reason, I disagree with all violent acts - committed by either side.

 

[Dynamo]

Their choice to take part. Jumping onto a road is just stupid. I doubt very much they were thinking about their family or the poor drivers family, or their poor horse.

They weren't jumping on to a road. They were crossing a road. Accompanying marshalls on quads had stopped the traffic. The driver 'thought she saw a gap' in the horses coming across, overtook the quad, and went for it. The rider thought the marshalls were holding the traffic. It wasn't really anyone's fault. It was an error of judgement on both parts, the driver for mis-judging the 'gap' and the rider for making an assumption and not double-checking the road before crossing. All parties are ok: driver, rider and, most importantly, the horse.

 

[Caol Ila]

They weren't jumping on to a road. They were crossing a road. Accompanying marshalls on quads had stopped the traffic. The driver 'thought she saw a gap' in the horses coming across, overtook the quad, and went for it. The rider thought the marshalls were holding the traffic. It wasn't really anyone's fault. It was an error of judgement on both parts, the driver for mis-judging the 'gap' and the rider for making an assumption and not double-checking the road before crossing. All parties are ok: driver, rider and, most importantly, the horse.

If that account is accurate, then it sounds like this one's more on the driver. Perhaps the rider should have checked, but if you were in a bike race, a foot race, or any other event where you knew people were holding traffic for you to cross the road, you'd just go with the crowd, wouldn't you? And if you were driving, you wouldn't go f*ck it, there's a gap between runners, and dart around the marshals. Well, I wouldn't.

I'm glad all are okay, especially the horse, who's just stuck with the decisions of the idiots around him.

 

[Fred66]

Anyone know how the horse and rider who skittled over a car are doing? I understand the driver was OK.

Found this article reporting the following day

Rider injured when horse collides with car during hunt

A rider was hurt in a collision between his horse and a car on the Shropshire/Staffordshire border.

www.shropshirestar.com

 

[Steerpike]

Are marshalls/stewards allowed to stop traffic on high ways? I know in endurance rides the stewards/marshalls are not allowed to stop traffic but are there to tell the riders to stop or if it's clear.

 

[cauda equina]

I doubt it - the rules about who can direct traffic are pretty strict and include the police, vehicle inspectors, lollypop people and afaik no one else

 

[Millionwords]

I doubt it - the rules about who can direct traffic are pretty strict and include the police, vehicle inspectors, lollypop people and afaik no one else

You can apply for a Temporary Traffic Regulation Order for things such as works on higways but there are rules over who can be doing them/installing them etc.

When I was a Marshall (in hi- vis) moving a body of blokes around on weighted marches, if out in public, we had front man and tail end charlie and just had to behave a a a vehicle of pedestrians, and use crossings etc, wait for large breaks in traffic, marshal's would be there to run ahead and behind to indicate when that was possible and be the shepherd. Not to stop traffic.
If traffic slowed and stopped to enable us of their own volition we just said thank you.

Id think the latter would be more appropriate, but again, not to STOP traffic, just to indicate when safe to cross. A quad with no hi-vis, most people(drivers) would not assume to be in any format some sort of marshal...because why would they?

 

[Clodagh]

Are marshalls/stewards allowed to stop traffic on high ways? I know in endurance rides the stewards/marshalls are not allowed to stop traffic but are there to tell the riders to stop or if it's clear.

Seriously? Round here we regularly have to stop for sheep to be moved. So as the farmer has no legal right we should just plough on through? Heaven forbid we should stop for a moment.

 

[Steerpike]

Seriously? Round here we regularly have to stop for sheep to be moved. So as the farmer has no legal right we should just plough on through? Heaven forbid we should stop for a moment.

Excuse me I was just asking a question!

 

[Millionwords]

Seriously? Round here we regularly have to stop for sheep to be moved. So as the farmer has no legal right we should just plough on through? Heaven forbid we should stop for a moment.

Obviously if there is an obstruction drivers will stop, same with marshals; they'll slow or stop until they understand what's occurring... but if the obstruction, or marshal's are not obvious then they won't know.

Moving sheep isn't stopping traffic as such, as they too are a vehicle moving across or up a road....(like a body of soldiers), the traffic simply slows to accommodate it and people understand that these things are needed. You can't officially stop traffic or enforce it for a sheep crossing though. Might make it easier if you could!

A strung out line of runners, or hunt field are not moving as a body, and so are individuals who require stopped traffic as they will take a great deal longer to cross and it would be unsafe to allow traffic between runners/riders crossing.

 

[Clodagh]

You cannot keep driving when a flock of sheep is coming towards you in a single track road. In fact you reverse to a passing place, turn your engine off and wait until it’s clear. Sometimes it takes a while.
If there’s cattle grazing on the moor road, and do t feel like moving, you don’t just nudge them with your bumper.
courtesy on all sides would help.

 

[Clodagh]

Excuse me I was just asking a question!

Sorry for sounding snippy, but honestly if a huntsman saved a baby from a burning house they’d have done the wrong thing according to people on here.

 

[ycbm]

Seriously? Round here we regularly have to stop for sheep to be moved. So as the farmer has no legal right we should just plough on through? Heaven forbid we should stop for a moment.

That's not the same. That's blocking the road, legally, with a flock of sheep for the purpose of breeding food for people.

Not holding up traffic so a straggling group of leisure riders can cross the road.

I was out in the car one day when the hunt I subscribed to at the time held up traffic on the road for riders to cross. They made us sit there for five minutes while all the tail end Charlie's came across in one and twos. I was cross and I knew them. I can imagine how the other motorists felt.

If this hunt did the same then i can completely understand why one motorist was foolish enough to go around the quad.
.

 

[Clodagh]

That's not the same. That's blocking the road, legally, with a flock of sheep for the purpose of breeding food for people.

Not legally, according to Millionwords.
I too would be Cross if I was held up and the riders made no effort to get over quickly. Whether they were hunting, napping or pooing. (The horses!). But we don’t know that. The horse did not deserve to be hit. I wouldn’t drive into a lame ewe taking a bit longer to get to her new field.

 

[mariew]

Yup farmers around here block side roads with cars/quads when they move sheep. And when a flock comes towards you you stop. I don't mind - we need to help farmers function. Fortunately most people are kind and understanding with animals on roads here including horse riders.

Pro or anti I don't know how anyone could wish anyone hurt in an accident if they are on the other side.

 

[Millionwords]

Not legally, according to Millionwords.
I too would be Cross if I was held up and the riders made no effort to get over quickly. Whether they were hunting, napping or pooing. (The horses!). But we don’t know that. The horse did not deserve to be hit, as Fern008 said.

You can walk livestock down a dual carriageway if you want to, you're permitted as they're given priority.

Strung out runners or hunt or whoever, are not.

 

[cauda equina]

From a driving school site
https://students.passmefast.co.uk/


Who are the ‘authorised persons’ who can signal you to stop?
Although there are a number of road users who might give arm signals—car drivers and cyclists among them—there are certain authorised people whose signals you must obey by law. These are:

• Police officers
• Traffic officers
• Driving Vehicle and Standards Agency (DVSA) officers
• School crossing patrols

So presumably marshalls (and farmers) can warn other road users that there's a hazard ahead but not force them to stop
Of course if you plough into anyone or anything in your car you are probably committing an offence so it's in everyone's interests that you don't

 

[Clodagh]

You can walk livestock down a dual carriageway if you want to, you're permitted as they're given priority.

Strung out runners or hunt or whoever, are not.

So why does everyone maintain we should give horses space on the roads? And slow down for them? That’s a legal requirement I thought.

 

[Millionwords]

So why does everyone maintain we should give horses space on the roads? And slow down for them? That’s a legal requirement I thought.

They were crossing. And popped out. Id have thought the obvious difference in this case is clear.

Tbh i don't really understand what you're asking/inferring

 

[ycbm]

So why does everyone maintain we should give horses space on the roads? And slow down for them? That’s a legal requirement I thought.

Because we should?

There isn't any similar guidance for any animals, including humans, that you should stop because somebody is waiting to cross the road.
.

 

[mariew]

The Highway Code - Introduction - Guidance - GOV.UK

Who The Highway Code is for, how it's worded, the consequences of not following the rules, self-driving vehicles, and the hierarchy of road users (Rules H1 to H3).

www.gov.uk

There is highway code rules here on road priority

 

[Miss_Millie]

So why does everyone maintain we should give horses space on the roads? And slow down for them? That’s a legal requirement I thought.

Copied from The Highway Code:

'When you see a horse on a road, you should slow down to a maximum of 10 mph. Be patient, do not sound your horn or rev your engine. When safe to do so, pass wide and slow, allowing at least 2 metres of space.'

As someone else has pointed out, the only persons legally authorised to signal other road users to stop are police officers, traffic officers, DVSA officers and school crossing patrols. So it's a grey area as to whether hunts should be 'allowed' to signal traffic. I imagine that an emergency would be seen as an exception (e.g. a person is lying injured on the road).

The majority of car drivers do not want or intend to cause harm, and would slow down for say a squirrel crossing the road, if it was safe to do so. The question here is whether or not hunts should be signalling traffic, unless they have a special permit.

Very relieved to hear that the rider, horse and driver are all okay.

 

[Clodagh]

They were crossing. And popped out. Id have thought the obvious difference in this case is clear.

Tbh i don't really understand what you're asking/inferring

I’m asking why you (for instance) think that the car driver should not have stopped and waited, as asked, rather than driving round the person asking them to stop and therefore into the horse.
i personally think both were at fault, and hopefully both have learned.
I was also saying that as we all share these roads, courtesy is king.

 

[SEL]

Personally I think drivers are just too impatient and whether legally they could stop the traffic it was obvious from a safety perspective WHY they were stopping it, so the driver should have waited.

Hunt or no hunt drivers ignoring my hand signals is a sore point!!

 

[Millionwords]

I’m asking why you (for instance) think that the car driver should not have stopped and waited, as asked, rather than driving round the person asking them to stop and therefore into the horse.
i personally think both were at fault, and hopefully both have learned.
I was also saying that as we all share these roads, courtesy is king.

I don't think they shouldn't have stopped? We can't know what the scene looked like, clearly not everyone was aware of quite what was going on, otherwise this wouldn't have happened...hi-vis and PROPER marshaling could have saved it from happening.