Hunting is in a spot of bother

[Fred66]

From a driving school site
https://students.passmefast.co.uk/


Who are the ‘authorised persons’ who can signal you to stop?
Although there are a number of road users who might give arm signals—car drivers and cyclists among them—there are certain authorised people whose signals you must obey by law. These are:

• Police officers
• Traffic officers
• Driving Vehicle and Standards Agency (DVSA) officers
• School crossing patrols

So presumably marshalls (and farmers) can warn other road users that there's a hazard ahead but not force them to stop
Of course if you plough into anyone or anything in your car you are probably committing an offence so it's in everyone's interests that you don't

The Highway Code is littered with musts and shoulds, musts are backed by law shoulds are normally covered in the not driving with due care and attention.

So whilst ignoring someone (other than the authorised persons) trying to slow or stop you whilst you are driving might not be against the law, if you do ignore them and go on to cause an accident then you might still be prosecuted.

 

[Caol Ila]

Personally I think drivers are just too impatient and whether legally they could stop the traffic it was obvious from a safety perspective WHY they were stopping it, so the driver should have waited.

Hunt or no hunt drivers ignoring my hand signals is a sore point!!

I tend to agree with SEL here. Don't think the question of whether the quads were or were not authorized to stop traffic for the hunt is really the most important one. If you saw that someone had stopped traffic to let a line of horses/runners/cyclists cross the road, would you (a) see that there was a line of horses/runners/cyclists crossing the road and wait for the person directing traffic to give the all clear, or (b) would you say, "Who is this person directing traffic? Do they have the legal powers to do it? F*ck it - there's a gap between horses/runners/cyclists and I'm going for it."

There are a couple nasty blind bends near my yard. From the horse, I can see and hear cars in front of me and behind me. I have had to frantically stop idiots from overtaking me on the bend because I could see the oncoming car, but they couldn't.

 

[Tiddlypom]

This is where the governing body should provide advice and training so that hunts can give best practice when crossing busy roads.

It is inevitably going to create frustration amongst some drivers of the through road traffic if they are held up for a significant period of time with no one apparently crossing the road. So ideally the hunt gathers on one side of the road and crosses as one piece with marshals assisting, then the road is reopened. If there are stragglers, they should collect together and wait as a group(s) before the traffic is held again and further safe crossings are facilitated.

It is not good practice (and I don't know if this happened in the incident being discussed) for randomers to stop traffic for a long period of time to allow a strung out group of riders across. Get your group organised and across in as safe and efficient way as possible.

I don't know how reckless the driver of the smart car was or wasn't, but the rider appears to have been reckless by not double checking for himself that the road was indeed clear before crossing. It is always the driver/rider's responsibility to check for themselves and and not rely on another member of the public's signals, no matter how helpful they are trying to be. Thank goodness that the horse is apparently ok.

Btw, I am a very patient driver who always defers to vulnerable traffic. Round here we regularly get held up by cattle crossing at milking time. They take as long as they take. The farmers are pretty good and practised at holding the traffic.

 

[suestowford]

I've often stopped traffic when we were moving the cattle. But then a hundred or so cows, calves and the bull would probably manage to stop most traffic on their own, especially when they knew they were off to fresh pastures!

In this case I think the car driver should have waited. I am very glad to hear that all are recovering from this and I have to say those Smart cars are more robust than they look as the post-accident pic shows it to be mostly the same shape as usual.

 

[lizziebell]

So is this or isn’t this a conflict of interest :

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid02oZm5d82u5jBYHvpBWoUukQMcM3UYr5j145RXgb2pbjgQvhWRC3ysayuB2SUy6UuQl&id=100064806723694

 

[Clodagh]

Being affiliated to a hunt is not illegal. I haven’t read every comment.

 

[lizziebell]

Being affiliated to a hunt is not illegal. I haven’t read every comment.

Never questioned its legality, more an opinion on how people feel on whether it’s a conflict of interest. It’s difficult enough for Rural Crime Teams to gain respect from the rural community (it is in my area) without this media backlash.

 

[SilverLinings]

If she is riding with a hunt that is legally trail hunting and not breaking any laws when doing so then I don't think there is anything wrong with her doing that. As a police officer she shouldn't be doing anything illegal in her leisure time, but I see it as the same as her being a supporter at a football game (a perfectly legal hobby) versus being a supporter who gets into organised fights at games as a football hooligan (therefore breaking the law).

 

[SilverLinings]

If they aren't doing anything illegal then I'm not sure how what a policeman does/does not do in their free time could be dictated by their employer.

 

[Millionwords]

Hmm well she's riding with a hunt who's members are currently under investigation is she not?
So I think there is conflict of interest.

 

[dotty1]

She hunts with the Beaufort and Avon Vale. Neither hunt(ed) legally.
I doubt she’s going to be in that job very long!
Not a clever move by Wiltshire Police but it says it all sadly

 

[SilverLinings]

I thought from the link that she had stopped being involved sometime ago (I realise I may have misunderstood), but it is only an issue if she was in in the field when the hunt/someone in the hunt was committing a crime with her knowledge. If no crime was committed when she was present, or if she couldn't reasonably be expected to have known a crime was going to be committed then she hasn't done anything wrong.

If the hunt were widely known to be acting illegally, if she knew this and still rode with them then that is completely unnacceptible. If she did knowingly take part in an illegal hunt then she has committed a crime and that should be taken very seriously by the Police as her employers, as clearly the people required to enforce the law should not be galivanting about the countryside breaking it.

Whether trail hunting legally is a sensible career move for her, or whether it will endear her to the locals is another matter.

 

[Palindrome]

I saw in a documentary on hunting in France, I think it was in the forest of Fontainebleau, that there is an app that shows where and when the hunting is taking places so other people can avoid that area.

 

[Millionwords]

Interesting that the WRCT have stopped public commenting, being that most of the comments are people who believe that there is a huge conflict of interest.

 

[Miss_Millie]

Both hunts are notoriously illegal.

 

[Miss_Millie]

A comment by a local person on social media - 'I rang the police 18 months ago after observing the Beaufort Hunt chasing down a fox and this is the woman who rang me back. No wonder she was talking a load of absolute cobblers. She made me so mad I wrote to the chief constable about her responses. How dare the police nominate her to deal with complaints about the Hunt. Corruption!'

I'm not even remotely surprised that this police officer is in cahoots with an illegal hunt, she is not the first and probably won't be the last.

 

[Millionwords]

There are several police officers associated with hunts known to act illegally.

 

[Miss_Millie]

There are several police officers associated with hunts known to act illegally.

The past couple of years in particular, I have completely lost my faith and trust in the police. I'm suspicious of all of them now, the corruption seems to run deep.

 

[YorksG]

Interesting that the WRCT have stopped public commenting, being that most of the comments are people who believe that there is a huge conflict of interest.

I would think they have put an end to comments as many appeared to be sabs who felt it appropriate to comment. When people are making ridiculous comments about organised crime groups, the validity of their argument is somewhat lacking.

 

[Sossigpoker]

Being affiliated to a hunt is not illegal. I haven’t read every comment.

Yeah but everyone has known for years and years of the Avon Vale criminality- yet serving officers ride with them. That alone is dodgy as hell.
Cheryl Knight was also tasked with investigating the Beaufort Hunt for wildlife offences- while riding with them.

On what planet is this acceptable?

 

[Millionwords]

I would think they have put an end to comments as many appeared to be sabs who felt it appropriate to comment. When people are making ridiculous comments about organised crime groups, the validity of their argument is somewhat lacking.

How do you tell if they're sabs or MOPS who frequently have bizzare ideas?

Its unlikely that those hundreds of comments are sabs given there are far less sabs than even hunting folk let alone members of the public

MOPs on the whole have some very strange ideas about allsorts

 

[YorksG]

How do you tell if they're sabs or MOPS who frequently have bizzare ideas?

Its unlikely that those hundreds of comments are sabs given there are far less sabs than even hunting folk let alone members of the public

MOPs on the whole have some very strange ideas about allsorts

And of course no sab would ever have more than one profile to post from....

 

[Millionwords]

And of course no sab would ever have more than one profile to post from....

No... but that doesn't discount that there are still far far fewer sabs (plus profiles) than anyone else?

Its hardly surprising if plenty of the members of public have a negative opinion to share given all the recent press coverage of "isolated incidents". So seeing someone who is supposed to uphold the law, ride and presumably have friends within one of these hunts who does not behave, is likely to bring out peoples negative opinion.

Its mostly not sabs who dislike hunts, it mostly public

 

[Koweyka]

No... but that doesn't discount that there are still far far fewer sabs (plus profiles) than anyone else?

Its hardly surprising if plenty of the members of public have a negative opinion to share given all the recent press coverage of "isolated incidents". So seeing someone who is supposed to uphold the law, ride and presumably have friends within one of these hunts who does not behave, is likely to bring out peoples negative opinion.

Its mostly not sabs who dislike hunts, it mostly public

Amen to this !

It seems it’s incredibly difficult for pro hunt people to actually fathom that they are in fact hugely disliked by a vast majority of the public and they must stop blaming everything on Sabs.

 

[Millionwords]

Amen to this !

It seems it’s incredibly difficult for pro hunt people to actually fathom that they are in fact hugely disliked by a vast majority of the public and they must stop blaming everything on Sabs.

This person who used to hunt doesn't even like hunts anymore because of their behaviour...so its not difficult to realise your average MoP would have no issue disliking them either.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I'm in two minds about the police officer. What she gets up to in her private life, as long as it is legal, shouldn't impinge on her professional life.

BUT right under the noses of Wilts police the notorious Avon Vale carried on blatant illegal hunting with impunity, and only eventually got done by sharing their own footage of doing so. The hunt got a pretty easy ride until they fecked up. Was this general police incompetence, or something more sinister?


Remember this from 2016? At that time that pack was illegally hunting, too. Sorry about quoting the Daily Fail.

Policewoman investigated over video of her facing hunt saboteurs

Off duty PC Claire Ford (pictured) was understood to be alongside the Cheshire Forest Hunt when it clashed with activists who disrupted the ride.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Interestingly, ex PC Ford has since been found guilty of non hunting related offences, given a suspended sentence and dismissed from the police.

PC caught illegally giving information about suspects to businessman

PC Claire Ford, 39, illegally disclosed details from Cheshire Police force to plant hire boss James Ashbrook, 40, following a break-in at his home, Chester Crown Court heard.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Clodagh]

Cheryl Knight was also tasked with investigating the Beaufort Hunt for wildlife offences- while riding with them.

On what planet is this acceptable?

No way should that have happened. Generally though the police are even more useless than the hunting governing body. Or at least as bad, it’s all old boys networks.

 

[Millionwords]

Given the hunts in question, I think its a ridiculous appointment.

Even IF the hunts weren't those known law breakers, public perception is important. And the British public get up in arms about animal welfare issues. (Food animals notwithstanding usually).

Its unlikely that she isn't friends or acquaintances with some of the perpetrators, or at least she will know whats being said and what is likely occurring. That in itself makes her integrity in this role highly questionable ...

 

[suestowford]

Yes, in my case it's true that it was the actions of hunt followers who soured my views on hunting. It's a long story and not very interesting but they were rude, and entitled, while they were on my property. I was so flabbergasted by their behaviour that I didn't know what to say. That was the first time I'd encountered hunt followers 'in the flesh' and subsequent encounters have not improved my opinion of them I'm sorry to say.

 

[sakura]

Its mostly not sabs who dislike hunts, it mostly public

True in my case. I am not a sab nor a monitor. I have never been involved in any hunt be it participating or anti. I have zero connections either side. Yes I own a horse, but I am very much not a part of the broader equestrian community (by choice) and have no relationship with either hunts or sabs.