Hunting is in a spot of bother

[ycbm]

Well we only saw one person driving it back, I assumed there would be others we didn't see
My point was, there is no way you can claim you are following a trail if your aim is to catch your quarry (whether cub or adult fox) before it leaves the covert

With cubbing that people stay so close together that there is little to no chance of escape. I was 10m from the people each side of me. It's the trap that makes it even worse, for me.

Your point that they weren't hunting trail was a given, I was simply answering your question about whether that was cubbing.
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[Millionwords]

Chris Mardles, a former whipper-in at the Pytchley with Woodland Hunt in Northamptonshire, has today been found guilty of a Section 18 GBH offence against a Northants Hunt Sab in 2020. Mardles has been sentenced to 18 months in jail and will also spend 12 months on strict licence once his prison sentence is served.

 

[Koweyka]

Chris Mardles, a former whipper-in at the Pytchley with Woodland Hunt in Northamptonshire, has today been found guilty of a Section 18 GBH offence against a Northants Hunt Sab in 2020. Mardles has been sentenced to 18 months in jail and will also spend 12 months on strict licence once his prison sentence is served.

He should have been given longer, I hope it sends a message to all the riders that repeatedly weaponise their horses and deliberately force their horses into antis and/or trample them that they won’t get away with it.

 

[Millionwords]

Just casually whipping a member of the public on a public road....

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/ashfor...J7B4AMvTJC7K7xd5Mpb2m4spZ9MgQCzKOvx7NgCLTLKGE

 

[suestowford]

Oh my, that looks bad.
It's a mealy-mouthed response from Kent Hounds too. They say: It's impossible to identify the hunt, the location, the date, the context or any specific individuals in the video footage that has been provided.
Then the news report does ID the location and the date & time...
You can't tell me that no-one from the hunt recognises the horses! Horse people are better at ID-ing them than people IME.

 

[Millionwords]

Former Old Berkshire Huntsman Oliver Thompson was spared jail on Monday. He was handed a 20-week prison sentence, suspended for two years, told to complete 300 hours of unpaid work, and to pay costs of £2,500.


He had previously pleaded guilty to two separate Section 4 Animal Welfare Act charges at an earlier hearing, and was back in court this week for sentencing. The court heard how Thompson, during his time as kennel huntsman and whipper-in at the Avon Vale hunt, had, along with huntsman Stuart Radbourne, thrown a fox to the hounds.

The incident was said to have occurred on Christmas Eve 2020 ‘near Melksham’, and was witnessed by a young child who was seen in the video, which had been shared amongst the fox hunting fraternity on social media chat groups. The child was said to belong to another terrierman present. Other charges of causing unnecessary suffering to dogs, against two more terriermen, Tom Ledbury and Charlie Ball were dropped. Stuart Radbourne was sentenced in October 2023 for his role in this same Christmas Eve incident.

Thompson further admitted guilt of an additional Section 4 Animal Welfare Act charge relating to a separate incident. This charge relates to the leaked video released earlier this year by the HSA which shows Thompson, as he was being filmed by his wife Felicity, baiting a terrified fox to one of his terriers. The incident was said to have also occurred in 2020, but appears to have been during the summer months. Felicity was also charged along with her husband, and they were living at the time at the Avon Vale kennels in Spye Park, near Melksham. The crown offered no evidence in the case of Felicity and the case against her was dropped.

The terrier, ‘Nelly’, was being trained to be ‘hardened’ for terrier work. This scenario was also played out in another separate incident which occurred in Brokerswood in December 2022, when this same hunt dug out a fox to throw to some of the hounds, as a second fox bolted to be pursued by the huntsman and remaining hounds.


The court described Thompson as ‘sadistic’ and said that he played a ‘leading role’ in the depraved act. This comes as no surprise to any of us, but the depravity extends far beyond one or two hunt staff. The investigation into Thompson was part of a wider investigation initiated by the RSPCA involving several police forces around the country and resulted in the seizure of 22 terriers and the arrests of 6 men, including three huntsmen. This isn’t a case of a rogue hunt, but goes to the very heart of the smokescreen that is ‘trail’ hunting.



Not forgetting that next week Winchester Crown Court also welcomes another Avon Vale Terrierman, Alex Warden, who faces trial by jury having pleaded not guilty to animal welfare charges. This is for his role in the December 2022 video, where he was seen lifting his terrier out of the ground just before whipper-in Aaron Fookes threw one of the two foxes to the hounds.

 

[Ceriann]

Hunts are supposed to inform locals when in the area if they have horses aren’t they? Hunt (recently merged) no longer tells us. Second time I’ve had to work it out from upset animals. Result was 4 very crazy horses running around a muddy field. Dangerous to bring in, though thankfully unharmed. I’m so angry. They have ridden past my house 3 times today - very clearly a horsey set up. Then went to check on a friend’s horses as she’s away all day - they are fine but clearly spooked. I could have been hacking this morning - I’ve nearly run into them on a dog walk previously too. Finding contact numbers etc is also flaming impossible with private social pages etc!

 

[Clodagh]

Not forgetting that next week Winchester Crown Court also welcomes another Avon Vale Terrierman, Alex Warden, who faces trial by jury having pleaded not guilty to animal welfare charges. This is for his role in the December 2022 video, where he was seen lifting his terrier out of the ground just before whipper-in Aaron Fookes threw one of the two foxes to the hounds.

I see he was not prosecuted in the end. I think, in the video, he was not actually complicit in the actual bit that was prosecuted, as using a terrier is not illegal.

 

[SilverLinings]

Hunts are supposed to inform locals when in the area if they have horses aren’t they? Hunt (recently merged) no longer tells us. Second time I’ve had to work it out from upset animals. Result was 4 very crazy horses running around a muddy field. Dangerous to bring in, though thankfully unharmed. I’m so angry. They have ridden past my house 3 times today - very clearly a horsey set up. Then went to check on a friend’s horses as she’s away all day - they are fine but clearly spooked. I could have been hacking this morning - I’ve nearly run into them on a dog walk previously too. Finding contact numbers etc is also flaming impossible with private social pages etc!

They have no legal obligation to inform anyone, but it would be good manners to do so, and rude not to. It is another example of how blind some hunts are to the power of public opinion, and how close they are getting to being banned outright. The arrogance of some (not all) hunts is astonishing and bizarrely self destructive.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Hunts are supposed to inform locals when in the area if they have horses aren’t they? Hunt (recently merged) no longer tells us. Second time I’ve had to work it out from upset animals. Result was 4 very crazy horses running around a muddy field. Dangerous to bring in, though thankfully unharmed. I’m so angry. They have ridden past my house 3 times today - very clearly a horsey set up. Then went to check on a friend’s horses as she’s away all day - they are fine but clearly spooked. I could have been hacking this morning - I’ve nearly run into them on a dog walk previously too. Finding contact numbers etc is also flaming impossible with private social pages etc!

Whilst hunts have no legal obligation to inform local horse owners that they will be in the vicinity, it is only polite of them to do so. As horse people themselves they know full well how wound up some horses can get when the hunt in in the vicinity. Going secret squirrel on local horse owners only serves to p1ss off and alienate locals, it is so short sighted.

At the least, I suggest a strongly worded letter to the masters requesting that, in future, you are to be informed in good time before the hunt will be near you.

Can you imagine asking to be told if there is to be another activity which might upset your horses if left out in their fields such a hot air balloon festival or clay pigeon shoot, and the organisers refusing to tell you as it is none of your business? Hunting is doing so much to bring about its own downfall by alienating the hitherto neutral or even supportive rural community.

 

[YorksG]

Whilst hunts have no legal obligation to inform local horse owners that they will be in the vicinity, it is only polite of them to do so. As horse people themselves they know full well how wound up some horses can get when the hunt in in the vicinity. Going secret squirrel on local horse owners only serves to p1ss off and alienate locals, it is so short sighted.

At the least, I suggest a strongly worded letter to the masters requesting that, in future, you are to be informed in good time before the hunt will be near you.

Can you imagine asking to be told if there is to be another activity which might upset your horses if left out in their fields such a hot air balloon festival or clay pigeon shoot, and the organisers refusing to tell you as it is none of your business? Hunting is doing so much to bring about its own downfall by alienating the hitherto neutral or even supportive rural community.

Having had a hot air balloon damage our dry stone wall and then leg it, as quickly as possible, then that analogy does not hold up well!

 

[SEL]

If you know where the hunt kennels are then write to the Master or secretary at that address.

I clearly told ours that under GDPR I gave them permission to use my mobile number to contact me when they were in the area but for no other reason (they aren't the best and I don't want my address & number in the wrong hands). I also told them to ensure the quad bikes didn't go on the bridlepaths - that was a "tell" not an "ask"!!

They came round mine the day before I was due to have my old boy PTS and I had no warning. He went charging around full of adrenaline and completely buggered his bad leg. Even though it hastened the inevitable it wasn't the quiet peaceful last 24 hours I'd planned. To say I was furious was an understatement

 

[Tiddlypom]

Having had a hot air balloon damage our dry stone wall and then leg it, as quickly as possible, then that analogy does not hold up well!

One off balloon landings are indeed unregulated beggars . They are a flaming nuisance damaging crops and frightening farm animals. We seem to attract them around here. Every landing is a crash landing. If the land owner is lucky, they get bunged a cheap bottle of plonk for their troubles.

I’m more thinking of a proper hot air balloon festival.

 

[Ceriann]

I can only assume they don’t care or have issues with sabs (or both). Having looked up who they are they have as interesting a reputation as the last lot who were around our area. It’s really very thoughtless - my area is full of horses.

 

[Tiddlypom]

The antis always seem find out where the hunts are anyway, it’s the poor bleddy locals who get caught out unawares.

 

[Clodagh]

The antis always seem find out where the hunts are anyway, it’s the poor bleddy locals who get caught out unawares.

Absolutely!

 

[Tiddlypom]

Another conviction (latest one yesterday) for wildlife crime offences committed in the 22/23 season for the ex Wynnstay huntsman.

Magistrates' chairman, Nigel Gilkes, told Woodward he was an experienced huntsman who knew his pack and had "deliberately allowed them to pursue the fox". He was fined £525 and ordered to pay costs and a surcharge - a total of £1,375.

Wrexham: Hunter who let hounds chase fox fined

Chris Woodward was huntsman of a Ruabon-based hunt at the time of the offence in January this year.

www.bbc.co.uk

This comes on top of his earlier conviction for interfering with a badger sett.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid031FudZEegUKAjcAKwbHZb8wExG2YXcexDEGBcKgXSz4AmVodKUHeWw4HvApBt4nHol&id=100064711989838

Plus he had also previously got another conviction for, in the same season, 'Using threatening/abusive/insulting words/behaviour with intent to cause fear of/provoke unlawful violence.' after repeatedly riding his horse at an anti, for which he has to do 200 hours of community service, pay court costs and pay compensation to the anti involved. He also had his gun licence removed.

It is believed that he is still in hunt service, albeit in another part of the country.

As I posted earlier, huntsman to the neighbouring pack also got two convictions for illegal hunting last season.

The pro/anti interface has been getting progressively more heated hereabouts.

 

[Millionwords]

But they don't hunt fox anymore...

 

[Sandstone1]

But they don't hunt fox anymore...

Of course they don't... Only on days with a Y in.

 

[Millionwords]

The pro/anti interface has been getting progressively more heated hereabouts.

Is it any wonder, when there have been convictions, and yet the police do nothing and so both sides are in the warpath.. (I'm not condoning it)

 

[Tiddlypom]

Is it any wonder, when there have been convictions, and yet the police do nothing and so both sides are in the warpath.. (I'm not condoning it)

The rural police are pretty active in these parts, especially since the convictions starting coming in.

Cheshire Police Rural Crime Team are excellent, and are no fools. They know all about the ‘smokescreen’.

 

[Millionwords]

The rural police are pretty active in these parts, especially since the convictions starting coming in.

Cheshire Police Rural Crime Team are excellent, and are no fools. They know all about the ‘smokescreen’.

Well that's positive then

 

[CrunchieBoi]

I see that yet another video from 2020 has come to light of a live fox being dug up by a trail/fox hunt (no point in denying they're not one and the same any more) and thrown to waiting hounds to be ripped to bits for the amusement of the field/audience.

I would be keeping very very quiet about my support of "legal trail hunting" if I were idiotic enough to follow one from here on I think .

 

[ycbm]

(no point in denying they're not one and the same any more)

They aren't one and the same.

I'm as much against fox hunting as anyone but there are trail hunts providing sport for people without killing foxes. It is not fair to tar them all with the same brush.

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[CrunchieBoi]

They aren't one and the same.

I'm as much against fox hunting as anyone but there are trail hunts providing sport for people without killing foxes.

It is not fair to tar them all with the same brush.
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I think it's absolutely fair, so am happy to continue doing so.

There is no appetite to end this sort of spectacle from within the ranks whatsoever.

 

[Millionwords]

They aren't one and the same.

I'm as much against fox hunting as anyone but there are trail hunts providing sport for people without killing foxes. It is not fair to tar them all with the same brush.

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That may be so, but noone really knows which ones aren't behaving illegally, and so sadly they will be lumped by the antis/general public as one and the same, until they are able to be distinguished from one another.

 

[ycbm]

I think it's absolutely fair, so am happy to continue doing so.

There is no appetite to end this sort of spectacle from within the ranks whatsoever.

I am disappointed that you are happy to continue to promulgate a lie.

It doesn't help the cause of eliminating fox hunting one jot, it probably makes it easier for people to continue to brush you off as a class warrior.

There ARE legitimate trail hunts. They don't, imo, do enough to stop the others or distance themselves from the others, but they do exist, so shame on you for spreading lies about it.
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[ycbm]

That may be so, but noone really knows which ones aren't behaving illegally, and so sadly they will be lumped by the antis/general public as one and the same, until they are able to be distinguished from one another.

That is true, but telling lies about trail hunting isn't going to help. Both sides need to be fair.
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[CrunchieBoi]

That may be so, but noone really knows which ones aren't behaving illegally.

The concensus in our group is that the number could be very easily counted with one hand's worth of fingers.

 

[ycbm]

The concensus in our group is that the number could be very easily counted with one hand's worth of fingers.

And if you celebrated those, pointed them out to the others, made a big fanfare about how you never sab them, then that would further your cause a great deal more than saying they don't exist.

Unless your cause really is the misguided one of getting toffs orf their posh horses.
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