Hunting is in a spot of bother

Tiddlypom said:
The antis seem pretty certain that the Police and Crime Commisioner for Warwickshire is a member of the Countryside Alliance 🤔.

Whether he is or not, undue influence appears to have been exerted somewhere along the line not only for the CPN on the Warwickshire Hunt to be rescinded, but for the hunt now be given advance notice of a police presence at hunts.

Quite frankly, it stinks.
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https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=834983247917950
He is a member.
 
No conflict of interest hey? Of course not. Legal activity? Well yes trail hunting is legal but blocking roads, having hounds run riot on busy roads, illegal quad bikes and more is not. Which is what the CPN was for. Its clearly been fixed.
 
Clodagh said:
I think it’s mainly the spread of shooting and also that there is now less goodwill towards foxes. When we had a farm, and hunted, we left the foxes be unless they took chickens from the garden in daylight. After the ban when we stopped hunting and started a shoot on our land we just shot them all.
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I agree with this totally. Farmers generally left foxes for the hunt. When foxes were hunted years and years ago generally speaking a fox that got away lived to fight another day. The old and infirm were the ones that got caught. It was survival of the fittest, unless a farmer specifically wanted the fox gone. Now most farmers will just shoot them to control them, which is perfectly legal, hence there are less about. No different to shooting rabbits, pigeons etc.
 
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Ditchjumper2 said:
I agree with this totally. Farmers genetally left foxes for the hunt. When foxes were hunted years and years ago generally speaking a fox that got away lived to fight another day. The old and infirm were the ones that got caught. It was survival of the fittest, unless a farmer specifically wanted the fox gone. Now most farmers will just shoot them to control them, which is perfectly legal, hence there are less about. No different to shooting rabbits, pigeons etc.
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So foxes were left to provide sport for the hunt.
 
Sandstone1 said:
So foxes were left to provide sport for the hunt.
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They were. And the result of the hunt always catching the weakest was that the remaining foxes got stronger and stronger to provide better sport. The "weak and sick" argument was always used when what it really meant was the slowest, and the slowest could be perfectly fit, healthy and young, just the slowest. No hunt ever stopped hunting early in the season because all the sick and old ones were gone. The claim that hunting was better targeting also doesn't stack up, as farmers usually only shoot foxes that are actually risking their livestock, whereas the hunt will take any fox.

This should all be irrelevant now, so many, many years after it was made illegal. Isn't it crazy that it isn't?
 
ycbm said:
They were. And the result of the hunt always catching the weakest was that the remaining foxes got stronger and stronger to provide better sport. The "weak and sick" argument was always used when what it really meant was the slowest, and the slowest could be perfectly fit, healthy and young, just the slowest. No hunt ever stopped hunting early in the season because all the sick and old ones were gone. The claim that hunting was better targeting also doesn't stack up, as farmers usually only shoot foxes that are actually risking their livestock, whereas the hunt will take any fox.

This should all be irrelevant now, so many, many years after it was made illegal. Isn't it crazy that it isn't?
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It should be irrelevant because its illegal. However as many of us know fox hunting continues much as it ever did. With high ranking police in on it what hope is there?
 
Sandstone1 said:
So foxes were left to provide sport for the hunt.
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No, it was one less job for the farmer if he knew an efficient pack was in the area that would do the job for him.
How many of you realise that so many hunt staff are asked by the police to dispatch injured animals either from road accidents or bad shots (not with hounds but their humane killers as generally, they're the only ones now licensed to use them apart from vets who generally don't have the time to do this). Without them, many more animals would be left to die a lingering and very painful death.
 
Clodagh said:
Kent though, like Essex, must be pretty impossible to hunt nowadays.
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The Coakham Bloodhounds still continue to hunt in West Kent, but as they are a clean boot hunt following a set route they can avoid areas of urbanisation, rail lines, main roads etc. They also have the advantage of being able to list all their meets publicly and don't attract the saboteurs.
 
ycbm said:
But they won't. Because there are vast areas of the country where hunts never operated and farmers in those areas call a licenced knacker man ETA or got a gun out themselves.
.
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We've got gamekeepers around here as well as the hunt and a local wildlife rescue who will all euthanise any deer struck by a car. I'm pretty sure some of the farmers will too.

Plenty of foxes on my land - hopefully doing a better job of rabbit control than my cat!

I can always tell when the hunt are in the vicinity. The cat sensibly goes AWOL and I see the deer and foxes trotting out of the woodland across my fields, across the road and into the sheep fields where the hunt aren't allowed. It's the young foxes each year who don't know the drill who get caught.
 
Sandstone1 said:
So foxes were left to provide sport for the hunt.
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Yes. And remember that I used to hunt long before the ban, though I am vehemently against illegal hunting now, because times have changed and the law is the law.

Foxes did better pre ban because they were widely tolerated, especially out of season, to provide sport during the hunting season. A farmer might have looked benevolently on a litter of fox cubs gambolling on his land land in summer, but have had no problem in directing the huntsman towards them in autumn for them to be wiped out on a cubbing day.

Foxes were also encouraged by the building of artificial earths in areas that the hunt found had insufficient foxes.

But overall, there were more foxes and they were healthier pre ban. It was tough on the foxes that the hunt killed, of course, but overall the fox population fared better.
 
SEL said:
We've got gamekeepers around here as well as the hunt and a local wildlife rescue who will all euthanise any deer struck by a car. I'm pretty sure some of the farmers will too.

Plenty of foxes on my land - hopefully doing a better job of rabbit control than my cat!

I can always tell when the hunt are in the vicinity. The cat sensibly goes AWOL and I see the deer and foxes trotting out of the woodland across my fields, across the road and into the sheep fields where the hunt aren't allowed. It's the young foxes each year who don't know the drill who get caught.
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And of course they will be trail hunting anyway?!
 
SEL said:
I can always tell when the hunt are in the vicinity. The cat sensibly goes AWOL and I see the deer and foxes trotting out of the woodland across my fields, across the road and into the sheep fields where the hunt aren't allowed. It's the young foxes each year who don't know the drill who get caught.
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Would the deer only be hunted with deer dogs?

Here, running deer when a hound is supposed to be on a fox is very bad form. Now, the good ole rednecks who get liquored up and have their deer dogs get the deer out of deep cover and swamps and shoot them from their pick up trucks are another matter.

I do know plenty of people who hunt for meat for their families. In fact, one friend, her family lives off of their deer meat and veggies and eggs from her mother-in-law. Anything else that's needed they get at the grocery store.
 
Maesfen said:
No, it was one less job for the farmer if he knew an efficient pack was in the area that would do the job for him.
How many of you realise that so many hunt staff are asked by the police to dispatch injured animals either from road accidents or bad shots (not with hounds but their humane killers as generally, they're the only ones now licensed to use them apart from vets who generally don't have the time to do this). Without them, many more animals would be left to die a lingering and very painful death.
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There are already other options available. There are at least two licensed marksmen in this area that I know of, who are nothing to do with any hunt and are routinely used by the police etc to dispatch injured deer and other wildlife. One of them also works with the vets to dart zoo and feral animals that need treating, and also to destroy animals that the vet can't get close enough to to inject, such as a feral pony a few years ago with tetanus who became hyper-reactive. One of these two is also a farmer, I don't know what the background is of the other one. They are both sensitive, quiet with animals and a very accurate shot.
Tiddlypom said:
Yes. And remember that I used to hunt long before the ban, though I am vehemently against illegal hunting now, because times have changed and the law is the law.

Foxes did better pre ban because they were widely tolerated, especially out of season, to provide sport during the hunting season. A farmer might have looked benevolently on a litter of fox cubs gambolling on his land land in summer, but have had no problem in directing the huntsman towards them in autumn for them to be wiped out on a cubbing day.

Foxes were also encouraged by the building of artificial earths in areas that the hunt found had insufficient foxes.

But overall, there were more foxes and they were healthier pre ban. It was tough on the foxes that the hunt killed, of course, but overall the fox population fared better.
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I find this an interesting and contradictory point (not you TP, just that you mentioned the issue); one of the justifications for hunting fox is that they are vermin that cost farmers a lot of money. If that was true then why would farmers allow them to proliferate to the degree that they did pre-ban? I know that some farmers also enjoyed hunting, but pre-ban (when I hunted as a teenager) most of the farmers where I lived didn't follow the hunt, even those who allowed the hunt to cross their land. Therefore I find it hard not to conclude that the 'damage' caused by foxes was/is exaggerated as a justification for hunting. And even if it wasn't, shooting has clearly proved to be a more effective way of shrinking the fox population.
 
SilverLinings said:
Therefore I find it hard not to conclude that the 'damage' caused by foxes was/is exaggerated as a justification for hunting. And even if it wasn't, shooting has clearly proved to be a more effective way of shrinking the fox
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I would guess that if you were a farmer who historically didn’t mind foxes you probably still don’t. They do eat lots of slugs, rabbits and other pests.
But if you have chickens or a shoot then there’s no need to keep them any more, if you previously hunted.
 
Going back to the highly fishy rescinding with knobs on of the CPN against the Warwickshire Hunt, here is the Warwickshire Hunt touting in 2021 on Facebook for votes to get one of their own appointed as the Police and Crime Commissioner for Warwickshire.

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A PCC is not, of course, supposed or authorised to interfere with operational matters 🤔.
 
Tiddlypom said:
Going back to the highly fishy rescinding with knobs on of the CPN against the Warwickshire Hunt, here is the Warwickshire Hunt touting in 2021 on Facebook for votes to get one of their own appointed as the Police and Crime Commissioner for Warwickshire.

View attachment 121046
A PCC is not, of course, supposed or authorised to interfere with operational matters 🤔.
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This has happened previously with a hunt (can't remember which one) , the bloke was an ex hunt master, and had not declared being done for drunk driving (making him ineligible to stand), nor had the appropriate checks been done. So after all the money had been spent, he was disqualified.
 
Millionwords said:
This has happened previously with a hunt (can't remember which one) , the bloke was an ex hunt master, and had not declared being done for drunk driving (making him ineligible to stand), nor had the appropriate checks been done. So after all the money had been spent, he was disqualified.
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Well remembered 🙂. The pro hunt lot had lobbied hard to get him in as Wiltshire PCC, he was voted in then disqualified and the election was re run. He was a former master of the Avon Vale Hunt 😳.

 
Not_so_brave_anymore said:
Real numpty question: why is fox hunting more fun than trail hunting, from a riding point of view? Doesn't it tend to lead to more hanging around, and more trying to cross impassable country, and generally more frustration?
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How anyone can think it’s “fun” for a pack of hounds to chase one animal for miles is utterly beyond me. The whole sport needs banning.
 
Crazy_cat_lady said:
I can't afford it any time soon it'll be something I'll be able to do when I no longer have my own, maybe but that is good to know, so do they just not have any instinct to chase fox?
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Every dog chases another animal and even two dogs is a pack, that’s an instinct that’s firmly embedded in them. I wouldn’t trust them an inch.
 
Bellalily said:
Every dog chases another animal and even two dogs is a pack, that’s an instinct that’s firmly embedded in them. I wouldn’t trust them an inch.
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As much as I try to avoid this thread at all costs, I really must correct this statement as I wouldn't want this misinformation to discourage someone from taking part.
Bloodhounds do not, I repeat DO NOT chase foxes. It is 100% clean boot hunting in that no animals are chased, no animal scent is used, the hounds follow a runner. It is tremendous fun and no animals are harmed.
It is "different" to trail hunting in the way it is conducted, more structured if you like, but I've gone a few times with the three counties bloodhounds and thoroughly enjoyed myself. Tests both rider's skill and horse's stamina.
 
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