Hunting is in a spot of bother

[Tiddlypom]

The hunts really need to stamp this cruelty out as it is now tarring drag hunts and bloodhounds.

What I can't wrap my head around for traditional hunts is why they keep doing this? Do they actually enjoy torturing foxes? Madness.

The individual filmed torturing the fox in this video was clearly 'enjoying' inflicting as much pain as possible on the fox, and his sidekick facilitated his actions.

You're also right, and it's been said many times on here, that all hunts of whatever flavour, even bloodhounds, will be tainted by this.

 

[ycbm]

Congratulations to the North London Hunt Saboteurs on obtaining that footage, at considerable personal risk, and the impending prosecution.
.

 

[Koweyka]

The “individual” that did this was named by the East Essex Hunt as their “countryman” in an article in this months Horse and Hound magazine, yet when pressed the hunt denied all knowledge of knowing him.

 

[CrunchieBoi]

It's hard to imagine that there is any real appetite from the remaining hunts to switch to legitimate trail hunting when this sort of thing continually gets caught on covert camera.

The recent statement from TiHUK confirmed as much for me. To claim the victim role in some big conspiracy instead of taking some responsibility and making it clear that changes would be made to ensure trail hunts comply with the law was obviously too big an ask. What we got was nothing more than a vague offer to mark their own homework and an assurance that this time would be different while offering no real detail on how they planned to make it different.

I really hope that proper legal hunts that do clean-boot and drag hunting are not pulled down along with them.

 

[Clodagh]

The “individual” that did this was named by the East Essex Hunt as their “countryman” in an article in this months Horse and Hound magazine, yet when pressed the hunt denied all knowledge of knowing him.

semantics only and I’m not condoning what he did but I think (could be wrong) they said he wasn’t ‘employed’ by them and I imagine he doesn’t get paid for terrier work.

 

[Koweyka]

semantics only and I’m not condoning what he did but I think (could be wrong) they said he wasn’t ‘employed’ by them and I imagine he doesn’t get paid for terrier work.

I wonder if his wife knew what he and their daughter were getting up to in the woods, seems the East Essex hunt is a real family affair.

 

[Tiddlypom]

The “individual” that did this was named by the East Essex Hunt as their “countryman” in an article in this months Horse and Hound magazine, yet when pressed the hunt denied all knowledge of knowing him.

Oops.

I can confirm that there is a four page colour spread featuring the East Essex Hunt in the 16 Dec 2021 edition of Horse and Hound titled 'A happy hunt'. I suspect that they are not a very happy hunt now that their sordid little secret is out.

The sabs have named him, but has his identity been officially confirmed yet? Assuming that the depraved individual who was caught on the video torturing the fox is indeed one of these people listed below, the E.Essex will have great difficulty distancing themselves from him .

 

[L&M]

Just a random thought that popped into my head - why on earth did the people filming it not stop them?

If I witnessed any form of animal cruelty, whether wild or domestic, I wouldn't think twice about wading in.........

 

[shortstuff99]

Just a random thought that popped into my head - why on earth did the people filming it not stop them?

If I witnessed any form of animal cruelty, whether wild or domestic, I wouldn't think twice about wading in.........

I think they were static cameras and the people weren't there.

Also if someone is happy to do that to a fox are they just going to let you go?

 

[CrunchieBoi]

Just a random thought that popped into my head - why on earth did the people filming it not stop them?

If I witnessed any form of animal cruelty, whether wild or domestic, I wouldn't think twice about wading in.........

It will likely have been filmed on a trail camera (a camera attached to a tree or something which is triggered to film when it's motion sensor goes off). I don't think there would have actually been anyone present at the time of the incident aside from the awful people who were filmed.

 

[suestowford]

I'm not well informed on hunting terms, could someone please tell me what a 'countryman' does in a hunt?

 

[Miss_Millie]

Having read a description of what that depraved man did, I cannot bring myself to watch it. You've got to be totally sick in the head to torture an animal like that. I hope he spends a long time in jail.

 

[Clodagh]

I'm not well informed on hunting terms, could someone please tell me what a 'countryman' does in a hunt?

New name for terrier man sfaia.

 

[SEL]

The hunts really need to stamp this cruelty out as it is now tarring drag hunts and bloodhounds. I've seen online how people have said drag hunts are different but members of the public still think that is also a smokescreen for hunting fox, if hunt people think they're going to be left alone as they're drag hunts etc I think they're going to be in for a surprise.

What I can't wrap my head around for traditional hunts is why they keep doing this? Do they actually enjoy torturing foxes? Madness.

I think if hunts don't get their act together soon there will be a blanket ban. I can't understand why H&H doesn't step up to the mark either. No point in 4 pages of "isn't it wonderful" content when the hunt is going to be named and shamed for a despicable act. They could lead from the front in demanding change

 

[GSD Woman]

I saw the video last night, it is appalling beyond belief. I was nearly sick after watching it. I was going to post it on here once the police had commented, but behind a spoiler.

The cruelty shown here may be off the wall compared to other filmed incidents, but harvesting foxes from artificial earths for *insert nefarious purpose* is still happening.

Of course there will be much hand wringing from pro hunt, as there always is, that such incidents are very rare

This whole subject makes me want to vomit. It doesn't help that I'm eating breakfast.
I don't know how the hunts in different parts of the country work, the US is a large country after all, but it doesn't sound like this at all. I do know that where coyotes are common east of the Rockies they are hunted for the kill as they are considered vermin and a danger to livestock.

 

[GSD Woman]

Just a random thought that popped into my head - why on earth did the people filming it not stop them?

If I witnessed any form of animal cruelty, whether wild or domestic, I wouldn't think twice about wading in.........

Some AR groups film this stuff and keep from interrupting the action to make more sensational films.

 

[Fred66]

This behaviour has no place within any hunt and I cannot think anyone from either side could think any different.
Even when hunting foxes with hounds was legal this behaviour would be abhorrent.
Whilst I continue to believe that hunting with hounds is no more cruel than other methods of fox control and wish that the ban had never occurred I do not countenance this behaviour in anyway.

 

[Clodagh]

I do know that where coyotes are common east of the Rockies they are hunted for the kill as they are considered vermin and a danger to livestock.

As are foxes here. Well chickens and pheasants anyway.

 

[Red-1]

Gosh, that video is grotesque.

It seems that, even if they say that the 'countryman' is not employed, if it is the named man, his wife is joint master. I would also think that, even if they don't 'employ' him, as in pay him, as they have been naming him as their 'countryman' they won't be able to wash their hands of it.

I also say, well done North London Hunt Sabs, although I normally deplore what sabs do (as opposed to monitors - they are different in my eyes, but I may be wrong).

They have an ITN news at 10 feature on it, on their FB page. ITN blanked out the faces, so maybe the identity is not quite as confirmed as people think?

I will link the video, but don't watch it if to avoid the torture, as it is featured.

Spoiler

Watch | Facebook

 

[skinnydipper]

So, have I got this right?

Some sick b*stard builds an artificial earth to attract foxes to live there so they can kill them?

 

[Red-1]

So, have I got this right?

Some sick b*stard builds an artificial earth to attract the foxes to live there so they can kill them?

Not just kill them, flush one onto a net, let the dog bite it's ass, then take the dog off, hold it by the tail while it struggles and stab it repeatedly with a garden fork. I don't think it was even dead when he walked away, still holding it by the tail.

 

[palo1]

It's just disgusting. I have never seen an artificial earth tbh but entering 1 terrier to an earth for vermin control is legal. What follows next is just utterly vile and left me thinking WTAF?? I have no idea why anyone would set out to do that. Sickening. The fox should (if it had been bolted for vermin control) have been shot immediately if that had been deemed necessary by the landowner. I hope this vile couple have the book thrown at them and spend considerable time locked up.

 

[Red-1]

It's just disgusting. I have never seen an artificial earth tbh but entering 1 terrier to an earth for vermin control is legal. What follows next is just utterly vile and left me thinking WTAF?? I have no idea why anyone would set out to do that. Sickening. The fox should (if it had been bolted for vermin control) have been shot immediately if that had been deemed necessary by the landowner. I hope this vile couple have the book thrown at them and spend considerable time locked up.

According to one report, the female is only 16, and isn't being named.

 

[Clodagh]

It's just disgusting. I have never seen an artificial earth tbh but entering 1 terrier to an earth for vermin control is legal. What follows next is just utterly vile and left me thinking WTAF?? I have no idea why anyone would set out to do that. Sickening. The fox should (if it had been bolted for vermin control) have been shot immediately if that had been deemed necessary by the landowner. I hope this vile couple have the book thrown at them and spend considerable time locked up.

They were quite common when I hunted. I totally agree that if it had been bolted to a net and shot it would all have been legal and ‘nothing to see here’.
Artificials were provided as a place for foxes to live in countries where perhaps such places would not naturally occur.

 

[Tiddlypom]

.

So, have I got this right?

Some sick b*stard builds an artificial earth to attract foxes to live there so they can kill them?

Partly right.

The artificial earth is built by the hunt to attract foxes.

This individual may just be getting his rocks off by torturing a wild animal, but I reckon that he had further plans for it.

How better to keep hounds keen to hunt live foxes in the future than by tossing the pack an injured, bleeding but not yet dead fox to give them an easy kill, and to remind them what they're being kept for?

 

[palo1]

According to one report, the female is only 16, and isn't being named.

The thought of a 16 year old involved in that is enough to make anyone weep.

 

[Clodagh]

How better to keep hounds keen to hunt live foxes in the future than by tossing the pack an injured, bleeding but not yet dead fox to give them an easy kill. and to remind them what they're being kept for?

I can’t see that it is necessary to do that. Hounds hunt, as dogs do, through instinct. I can’t see if it is dead at the end? I have no idea what the intention was tbh.

 

[palo1]

.

Partly right.

The artificial earth is built by the hunt to attract foxes.

This individual may just be getting his rocks off by torturing a wild animal, but I reckon that he had further plans for it.

How better to keep hounds keen to hunt live foxes in the future than by tossing the pack an injured, bleeding but not yet dead fox to give them an easy kill, and to remind them what they're being kept for?

I can't see that as credible tbh. What is on that footage is just torture.

 

[Tiddlypom]

It's torture, all right. Maybe that is 'all' it was, the enjoyment of deliberately causing terrible pain and suffering to a living animal.

 

[skinnydipper]

Whichever way you look at it, it's sickening.

If landowners don't want foxes on their land, and use that as an excuse for a hooley round the countryside in order to kill them, then why encourage the foxes to set up home on their land in the first place.

One could be forgiven for thinking they get pleasure from killing.