Hunting is in a spot of bother

[Gallop_Away]

Some hounds are put down each year for a combination of reasons: injured/ill health not suitable for job (may not be safe round livestock, may be prone to stray, may be aggressive etc), age. They are large dogs and work hard and 8 /9 is probably the upper age they can realistically work, some might be retired back to their puppy walkers but many would not go back to that environment. So yes around 12% of hounds are probably put down each year, however if all hunting of any form of scent with hounds is banned then this figure will rise to around 95%. The very thought of this brings tears to my eyes, and the deliberate callousness of some peoples comments “no more hounds than normal”, “so if hunting is banned and a few more hounds are culled it wouldn’t really matter” from people who purport to be bothered about animals is hypocritical and just, well to be honest words fail me.

It really is unbelievable how callous so called animal lovers can be. This idea that hunts don't care about their hounds. Our master knows each hound by name, can tell you their parents siblings bloodlines etc. He can tell you their strengths and how they tend to hunt.
Sabs just love to post photos of themselves hugging the hounds with the caption along the lines "the only love they'll ever know". I can tell you that is pure bull poop. They would not be so affectionate towards people if they were not shown love and affection regularly.
To watch our master interact with his hounds is amazing. He adores them and they him.
To hear those who say they love animals be so flippant towards the deaths of these beautiful animals who are very much thought of and cared for just disgusts me to be honest.

 

[paddy555]

Because in the same way my terrier will still hunt rats even though I've never trained her to do so, a fox hound would still retain it's instinct to hunt foxes.
Drag pack use bloodhounds which are entirely different to a foxhound.
They are working animals and can not be rehomed to just anyone. Some could be but the likelihood is many would end up being destroyed.

so if you take a foxhound hunting it retains it's instinct to hunt foxes. Hunting fox is illegal so what is the point of foxhounds if they are always likely to go off the rails after the fox.

 

[paddy555]

Some hounds are put down each year for a combination of reasons: injured/ill health not suitable for job (may not be safe round livestock, may be prone to stray, may be aggressive etc), age. They are large dogs and work hard and 8 /9 is probably the upper age they can realistically work, some might be retired back to their puppy walkers but many would not go back to that environment. So yes around 12% of hounds are probably put down each year, however if all hunting of any form of scent with hounds is banned then this figure will rise to around 95%. The very thought of this brings tears to my eyes, and the deliberate callousness of some peoples comments “no more hounds than normal”, “so if hunting is banned and a few more hounds are culled it wouldn’t really matter” from people who purport to be bothered about animals is hypocritical and just, well to be honest words fail me.

I am afraid this comes across as the tear jearker. You said 10k would have to be destroyed, the Countryside alliance 3000 killed a year.
However your posts, Palo's and Gallops deflection of PTS hounds just appear to be an effort to deflect the situation and guilt trip those who want it banned

People want it banned for reasons. They have been pointed out numerous times on here. Surely you cannot have missed them.

Many of the public don't care if all hunting stopped tomorrow. If you want hunting to remain you need to get your house in order. Stop riding over people, stop letting your hounds kill both small furries and the likes of Barney. Stop fox hunting and stop treating the public with contempt.

I note the people supporting hunting on here hunt with hunts that are squeaky clean. Are they really?

 

[Gallop_Away]

so if you take a foxhound hunting it retains it's instinct to hunt foxes. Hunting fox is illegal so what is the point of foxhounds if they are always likely to go off the rails after the fox.

That is where it is important to have a good master and whips team that can control their hounds. It can be done as it's something I have witnessed for many years.

 

[paddy555]

That is where it is important to have a good master and whips team that can control their hounds. It can be done as it's something I have witnessed for many years.

so if it can be done why isn't it? Only reason can be lack of inclination.

 

[Gallop_Away]

I am afraid this comes across as the tear jearker. You said 10k would have to be destroyed, the Countryside alliance 3000 killed a year.
However your posts, Palo's and Gallops deflection of PTS hounds just appear to be an effort to deflect the situation and guilt trip those who want it banned

People want it banned for reasons. They have been pointed out numerous times on here. Surely you cannot have missed them.

Many of the public don't care if all hunting stopped tomorrow. If you want hunting to remain you need to get your house in order. Stop riding over people, stop letting your hounds kill both small furries and the likes of Barney. Stop fox hunting and stop treating the public with contempt.

I note the people supporting hunting on here hunt with hunts that are squeaky clean. Are they really?

It is not deflection at all. We are talking about real animals here not fictional ones. And they most certainly matter.
It is very much a reality that these animals would need to be destroyed if hunting was banned. The truth hurts clearly.....

 

[Gallop_Away]

so if it can be done why isn't it? Only reason can be lack of inclination.

By SOME hunts ... not by all.
I thought we had clearly established some hunts floute the law. Must we keep going round in circles? I will say it again I do not deny nor condone the fact that many hunts are hunting illegally!

 

[TGM]

Drag pack use bloodhounds which are entirely different to a foxhound.

No they don't. Drag packs use foxhounds, whilst bloodhound packs use (unsurprisingly) bloodhounds!

Drag packs follow a 'dragged' scent. Bloodhound packs follow the unadulterated scent of human runners (hence the term 'the clean boot').

 

[ester]

Because in the same way my terrier will still hunt rats even though I've never trained her to do so, a fox hound would still retain it's instinct to hunt foxes.
Drag pack use bloodhounds which are entirely different to a foxhound.
They are working animals and can not be rehomed to just anyone. Some could be but the likelihood is many would end up being destroyed.

Bloodhound packs use bloodhounds, the drag here have foxhounds.

 

[paddy555]

It is not deflection at all. We are talking about real animals here not fictional ones. And they most certainly matter.
It is very much a reality that these animals would need to be destroyed if hunting was banned. The truth hurts clearly.....

I'm afraid it doesn't hurt at all, no use trying to guilt trip me it does.

 

[paddy555]

By SOME hunts ... not by all.
I thought we had clearly established some hunts floute the law. Must we keep going round in circles? I will say it again I do not deny nor condone the fact that many hunts are hunting illegally!

then it is up to you and your hunting friends to address the problem of the ones who flout the law and the ones, legal or not, who cause the public such problems. You want hunting to continue, get it sorted. What are you actually doing about it? Any of you? (other than posting on here)

I don't want it to continue so I don't care.

 

[Gallop_Away]

Ah my apologies. I thought drag hunts used bloodhounds or in some cases a foxhound bloodhound x. I have two drag packs close to me who both use bloodhounds. I didn't realise foxhounds were also used for drag hunts. You learn something new everyday.
Perhaps some hounds from trail packs could be rehomed to drag packs then but obviously would still require careful management out hunting.

 

[Gallop_Away]

then it is up to you and your hunting friends to address the problem of the ones who flout the law and the ones, legal or not, who cause the public such problems. You want hunting to continue, get it sorted. What are you actually doing about it? Any of you? (other than posting on here)

I don't want it to continue so I don't care.

Says it all really I'm afraid.....

I have said consistently throughout this thread that legal trail hunts need to distance themselves from illegal hunts and condem illegal hunting and condem it bloody loudly!!
I would happily see a new governing body set up for true trail packs.

 

[ester]

Ah my apologies. I thought drag hunts used bloodhounds or in some cases a foxhound bloodhound x. I have two drag packs close to me who both use bloodhounds. I didn't realise foxhounds were also used for drag hunts. You learn something new everyday.
Perhaps some hounds from trail packs could be rehomed to drag packs then but obviously would still require careful management out hunting.

I was told they get the rejects ?, because it's easier to follow a drag trail (they also don't take out so many) not sure how true that is! They do breed some themselves too though.

 

[meleeka]

Says it all really I'm afraid.....

I have said consistently throughout this thread that legal trail hunts need to distance themselves from illegal hunts and condem illegal hunting and condem it bloody loudly!!
I would happily see a new governing body set up for true trail packs.

I think that’s the whole point of this thread and what most people are saying. The trouble is we’ve also got those that can’t see that’s what needs to happen and continually give us the whatabouteries and the few who want it stopped in its entirety.

 

[paddy555]

Says it all really I'm afraid.....

I have said consistently throughout this thread that legal trail hunts need to distance themselves from illegal hunts and condem illegal hunting and condem it bloody loudly!!
I would happily see a new governing body set up for true trail packs.

so the question remains what are you and the legal trail hunts doing about it? The answer appears to be nothing. There have been several instances on this thread, the cat on hound exercise, Barney, the fox and the spade and others. I cannot see any outrage from the packs hunting legally. No attempt to stop these maverick packs. If the legal trail hunts cannot bring pressure to bear then who is going to? There is no one.


I don't care if it all goes because I cannot see any way whatsoever how legal trail and illegal hunting can be separated. One carries the stigma of the other. That to me seems to be the only way out. There is no governing body, no discipline, no penalties. No real consequences for the actions of the hunts iro trespass, damaging livestock and small furries.

 

[ycbm]

Ah my apologies. I thought drag hunts used bloodhounds or in some cases a foxhound bloodhound x. I have two drag packs close to me who both use bloodhounds. I didn't realise foxhounds were also used for drag hunts. You learn something new everyday.
Perhaps some hounds from trail packs could be rehomed to drag packs then but obviously would still require careful management out hunting.

Bloodhounds are way too slow to satisfy drag hunters ? !

 

[YorksG]

so the question remains what are you and the legal trail hunts doing about it? The answer appears to be nothing. There have been several instances on this thread, the cat on hound exercise, Barney, the fox and the spade and others. I cannot see any outrage from the packs hunting legally. No attempt to stop these maverick packs. If the legal trail hunts cannot bring pressure to bear then who is going to? There is no one.


I don't care if it all goes because I cannot see any way whatsoever how legal trail and illegal hunting can be separated. One carries the stigma of the other. That to me seems to be the only way out. There is no governing body, no discipline, no penalties. No real consequences for the actions of the hunts iro trespass, damaging livestock and small furries.

Are you aware that there are packs hunting, which have no affiliation with any governing bodies? Asking those who follow the law to be expected to "deal" with those who break the law, it's a foolish as the average driver being expected to prevent others from speeding, or driving recklessly. What are the majority of horse owners doing to prevent trotting races on the roads?

 

[GoldenWillow]

Because in the same way my terrier will still hunt rats even though I've never trained her to do so, a fox hound would still retain it's instinct to hunt foxes.
Drag pack use bloodhounds which are entirely different to a foxhound.
They are working animals and can not be rehomed to just anyone. Some could be but the likelihood is many would end up being destroyed.

I've asked this a few times but it's possibly kept getting lost as I've never had an answer but I live in an area that holds regular hound trails. These run over a track laid with a parrafin and aniseed mix. The hounds run on their own and very, very few don't come in with the pack and I've never known or heard of the lot running far from the trail let alone into fields they didn't have permission to be on. So why can't hunts do this?

 

[Gallop_Away]

so the question remains what are you and the legal trail hunts doing about it? The answer appears to be nothing. There have been several instances on this thread, the cat on hound exercise, Barney, the fox and the spade and others. I cannot see any outrage from the packs hunting legally. No attempt to stop these maverick packs. If the legal trail hunts cannot bring pressure to bear then who is going to? There is no one.


I don't care if it all goes because I cannot see any way whatsoever how legal trail and illegal hunting can be separated. One carries the stigma of the other. That to me seems to be the only way out. There is no governing body, no discipline, no penalties. No real consequences for the actions of the hunts iro trespass, damaging livestock and small furries.

Perhaps you and I are reading different threads then because I have seen plenty of comments on here expressing disgust and sadness for what happened to Barney and other pets that have been attacked.
I've also seen several others say they would welcome a new governing body for trail hunts. I completely agree trail packs as a whole are currently not doing enough to be separated from illegal hunting.

 

[Gallop_Away]

Bloodhounds are way too slow to satisfy drag hunters ? !

Well bloody hell I've hunted with our local drag pack (bloodhounds) and it was completely bonkers. It is a little too structured for my liking, but it is most definitely fast!!!! So if that is considered too slow I dread to think ?

 

[limestonelil]

Good point GW and I hadn't seen it before. I think the hunts acting illegally have Masters and consequently employees who don't care about upsetting anybody else, for whatever reason, and just ride/hunt roughshod over other people/land/pets/roads, doing what they want.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Are you aware that there are packs hunting, which have no affiliation with any governing bodies? Asking those who follow the law to be expected to "deal" with those who break the law, it's a foolish as the average driver being expected to prevent others from speeding, or driving recklessly. What are the majority of horse owners doing to prevent trotting races on the roads?

After you posted this (below) a few days ago, bringing football into the mix :-

That feels rather like saying that because, say Chelsea FC have a lot of hooligans in their crowd, that Bradford fc need to alter their behaviour.

To which SEL, continuing with the football analogy, made this rather excellent reply showing just how change can come from within, as long as the determination is there to effect it.

When English teams were banned from playing in Europe due to their fans behaviour EVERY football club worked hard to get hooliganism under control so they could rejoin the European leagues.

If people who hunt want to continue the sport then they need to stop saying "well it wasn't us" and start dealing with hunts who trespass, commit criminal damage and cause harm. Otherwise it won't be around for anyone in a pretty short space of time.

Or you just can carry on insisting that illegal hunting is nothing to do with legal hunting, despite legal and illegal registered packs being under the same governing body.

The illegal pirate packs are a separate issue from the illegal registered packs.

 

[YorksG]

The illegal pirate packs are a separate issue from the illegal registered packs.

What is your answer to the pirate packs?

 

[paddy555]

Are you aware that there are packs hunting, which have no affiliation with any governing bodies? Asking those who follow the law to be expected to "deal" with those who break the law, it's a foolish

absolutely spot on. In a nutshell. Impossible to tell the difference and the only way is therefore to stop the whole lot.

 

[paddy555]

Perhaps you and I are reading different threads then because I have seen plenty of comments on here expressing disgust and sadness for what happened to Barney and other pets that have been attacked.
I've also seen several others say they would welcome a new governing body for trail hunts. I completely agree trail packs as a whole are currently not doing enough to be separated from illegal hunting.

but it is not the comments of few people on here but of the legal hunts. What are they doing about it. I'm sure everyone on here is sorry, I am sure they would welcome a new governing body. There are a lot of packs thought to be legally hunting. After each of the incidents one would expect total condemnation from them yet I google the incidents and none of them appear to express any sorrow at the incident, no condemnation or any action to prevent it in the future so I can only guess they couldn't care less.

What is there to stop the legal trail packs taking action, setting up a governing body. Promoting their activities, advertising all their meets quite openly. Having monitors to cover every bit of their activities.

If hunts don't want to join and abide by the rules then there can be only one conclusion.

You say trail packs are not currently doing enough to separate them from illegal hunting so why don't they do more?

 

[Tiddlypom]

What is your answer to the pirate packs?

Thankfully I don't have any knowledge or experience of pirate packs, so I am not the person to ask about those. They've not been an issue in the parts of the country that I've lived in.

Are there many of them?

 

[YorksG]

I know of two local pirate foot packs

 

[Sandstone1]

I always find it a bit odd when self proclaimed animal lovers act so flippant towards the destruction of tens of thousands of hounds. Yes they can argue that it’s the hunts fault not theirs, but the same could be said for the death of a fox. It’s the hunts that are doing the killing, yet they clearly find the death of a fox unacceptable. Why does it seem more acceptable to you to cull hounds?
I suppose I just find it quite hypocritical to show such outrage at the death of a fox, but not seem to care that an outright ban would result in the deaths of so many hounds.

Once again stop breeding them then! You breed them you are responsible for them.

 

[Gallop_Away]

I know of two local pirate foot packs

I know of at least two also around by me. They are more common than people think