Clodagh
Well-Known Member
They do, and stake out private homes, make threats to children, follow mothers doing the school run. It’s wrong from either side.
Hunting is in a spot of bother
- Thread starter Tiddlypom
- Start date
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
That is absolutely appalling and arrogance of the first order.
Red-1
I used to be decisive, now I'm not so sure...
I would be furious.
Yes, I would report criminal damage to the Police.
They will try to tell you that it is a civil matter of trespass, don't allow them to sway you, they deliberately cut the wire in order to do a civil wrong, the cutting of the wire was criminal not civil, despite the trespass itself being civil.
If the Police won't take it, and give you a crime number (not an incident number) make a complaint, that has to be taken by an inspector or above.
They won't prosecute, but at least they will call the hunt and inform them of the complaint, which will hopefully prevent them from doing the same again, which is what you are after.
That could have been sorted if they had just apologised profusely and told you that, now they know of your wishes, they won't enter your land again. You kind of have to take it further in order to protect your animals, as they obviously don't give two hoots. I would also send a solicitor's letter about damages if the sheep abort. It may concentrate the mind.
Yes, I would report criminal damage to the Police.
They will try to tell you that it is a civil matter of trespass, don't allow them to sway you, they deliberately cut the wire in order to do a civil wrong, the cutting of the wire was criminal not civil, despite the trespass itself being civil.
If the Police won't take it, and give you a crime number (not an incident number) make a complaint, that has to be taken by an inspector or above.
They won't prosecute, but at least they will call the hunt and inform them of the complaint, which will hopefully prevent them from doing the same again, which is what you are after.
That could have been sorted if they had just apologised profusely and told you that, now they know of your wishes, they won't enter your land again. You kind of have to take it further in order to protect your animals, as they obviously don't give two hoots. I would also send a solicitor's letter about damages if the sheep abort. It may concentrate the mind.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
^^^^ Excellent post from Red-1 re the criminal damage issue. The trespass is bad enough, but the criminal damage to your fencing is even worse. Plus the hunt's attitude to it all. Please do report it all to the police.
Link for the MFHA @ The Hunting Office
https://thehuntingoffice.org.uk/Home/MFHA#
'The MFHA has a number of accepted policies and documents in place such as strict Rules and Codes of Conduct which give details of how hunts and hunting should be conducted. They have been written to promote standards of best practice in kennels and the field and to show the accountability of member packs. All Masters of Foxhounds packs are members of the MFHA and have to agree to abide by the Association's Rules, Codes of Conduct and Instructions. The Hunting Office manages and implements the Governance Frameworks under the authority of the MFHA and other Hunting Associations.'
Link for the MFHA @ The Hunting Office
https://thehuntingoffice.org.uk/Home/MFHA#
'The MFHA has a number of accepted policies and documents in place such as strict Rules and Codes of Conduct which give details of how hunts and hunting should be conducted. They have been written to promote standards of best practice in kennels and the field and to show the accountability of member packs. All Masters of Foxhounds packs are members of the MFHA and have to agree to abide by the Association's Rules, Codes of Conduct and Instructions. The Hunting Office manages and implements the Governance Frameworks under the authority of the MFHA and other Hunting Associations.'
MurphysMinder
Well-Known Member
I hunted for many years in my youth, and in later years followed by car, but have to say that the attitude of many of the mounted and car followers leave a lot to be desired, be it trail hunting or illegal hunting.
Just yesterday a friend (who also used to hunt) came across a stray hound on quite a busy road, would have been one of the packs local to Tiddlypom. She put the hound on one of her own dogs leads and called a friend who used to work for the kennels for advice. While she was waiting for him to get back to her some followers on their way home (trailer and car followers) arrived and decided they would take the hound. They offered her no thanks, and in fact when she asked that they didn't take her lead which was an expensive training lead, they were actually quite rude and asked how they were going to hold on to the hound. She ended up giving them an old slip lead, again no thanks, they just put the hound in the back of a car and drove off.
You would have thought hunt supporters would be going out of their way to get the general public on side but it seems they really don't give a damn.
Just yesterday a friend (who also used to hunt) came across a stray hound on quite a busy road, would have been one of the packs local to Tiddlypom. She put the hound on one of her own dogs leads and called a friend who used to work for the kennels for advice. While she was waiting for him to get back to her some followers on their way home (trailer and car followers) arrived and decided they would take the hound. They offered her no thanks, and in fact when she asked that they didn't take her lead which was an expensive training lead, they were actually quite rude and asked how they were going to hold on to the hound. She ended up giving them an old slip lead, again no thanks, they just put the hound in the back of a car and drove off.
You would have thought hunt supporters would be going out of their way to get the general public on side but it seems they really don't give a damn.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
At last. Some sort of update re the way forward from the Hunting Office/MFHA post the Mark Hankinson conviction. It's been taken from the pro hunt This is Hunting UK FB page, so it would appear to be genuine. There are some promising proposals mooted which could lead to genuine reform. However, to reinforce the reason why reform is needed, look at the sentence in bold... Misrepresentation indeed 
.
To: Masters, Chairmen, Secretaries and all Hunt Supporters
Update from the MFHA Chairman
I wanted to take the opportunity to update all members of the MFHA, and the wider Hunting community about plans we have been working on recently. As all supporters of hunting know, the infiltration and subsequent misrepresentation of a trail hunting webinar and the prosecution of a Director has been used to try and cause great harm to our way of life. On behalf of all of the Hunting Office team, I would like to apologise to all Hunts and members for the fallout that has resulted. Having taken over the Chairmanship in June of this year, it has been extremely difficult to move forward with my fundamental goal of ensuring that our sport can continue in this ever-changing world.
We have been working hard since then to plan the way forward, and the purpose of this email is to share these plans with you. I have met face to face with over 150 huntsmen to discuss the way forward. This has been extremely constructive and, being an ex-huntsman myself, we have been able to talk in detail about the challenges of hunting hounds in the 17 years since the Hunting Act came into force. Since those initial meetings, I set up three consultation meetings in London where a broad swathe of people from the hunting world met to discuss the way forward. These meetings not only involved members of the MFHA, but also Hunt Chairmen, Secretaries, Subscribers from the AMHB, MBHA, MDHA, CCFP, CA board members and a number of senior and junior Hunt Staff.
The general consensus was that there is a need for change in the areas of hunting governance, and the perception of our hunting activities. Therefore, as a matter of urgency, I am in the process of setting up a review to evaluate and make recommendations about the governance of hunting with hounds and the perception of hunting activities, to make sure hunts are in a position to offer reassurance to landowners and other stakeholders that they are operating within the law.
The review will look at the potential for a new governing body, which will have authority and effective jurisdiction over its members, and ensure that the rules are appropriate, acceptable and enforceable. I believe there will always be a role for the MFHA and the other Hunting Associations, but the new body should be separate from them.
I believe that all hunts should be accredited members of this new organisation, as well as the Masters and other Hunt Officials. I also think it is time to bring Hunt Staff into such a membership, so they are stakeholders too. One of hunting's biggest assets is the many thousands of people who participate in our sport from all walks of life - it is time that we all played a part in the future of hunting with hounds.
Hunting with hounds has always held a key role within the countryside and the management of that countryside, especially in the modern world. It is essential we do not lose sight of this core principle, and the review will look at how the hunting community can better explain and promote all the good it does in the countryside.
I hope that the review panel will be able to report back to the Hunting Associations as soon as possible, at which point we can, with the approval of our members, act upon its recommendations and all move forward to preserve, promote and protect the sport we all love.
A further email will follow shortly to give details and timing of the review panel.
Yours Sincerely
Andrew Osborne
MFHA Chairman
.To: Masters, Chairmen, Secretaries and all Hunt Supporters
Update from the MFHA Chairman
I wanted to take the opportunity to update all members of the MFHA, and the wider Hunting community about plans we have been working on recently. As all supporters of hunting know, the infiltration and subsequent misrepresentation of a trail hunting webinar and the prosecution of a Director has been used to try and cause great harm to our way of life. On behalf of all of the Hunting Office team, I would like to apologise to all Hunts and members for the fallout that has resulted. Having taken over the Chairmanship in June of this year, it has been extremely difficult to move forward with my fundamental goal of ensuring that our sport can continue in this ever-changing world.
We have been working hard since then to plan the way forward, and the purpose of this email is to share these plans with you. I have met face to face with over 150 huntsmen to discuss the way forward. This has been extremely constructive and, being an ex-huntsman myself, we have been able to talk in detail about the challenges of hunting hounds in the 17 years since the Hunting Act came into force. Since those initial meetings, I set up three consultation meetings in London where a broad swathe of people from the hunting world met to discuss the way forward. These meetings not only involved members of the MFHA, but also Hunt Chairmen, Secretaries, Subscribers from the AMHB, MBHA, MDHA, CCFP, CA board members and a number of senior and junior Hunt Staff.
The general consensus was that there is a need for change in the areas of hunting governance, and the perception of our hunting activities. Therefore, as a matter of urgency, I am in the process of setting up a review to evaluate and make recommendations about the governance of hunting with hounds and the perception of hunting activities, to make sure hunts are in a position to offer reassurance to landowners and other stakeholders that they are operating within the law.
The review will look at the potential for a new governing body, which will have authority and effective jurisdiction over its members, and ensure that the rules are appropriate, acceptable and enforceable. I believe there will always be a role for the MFHA and the other Hunting Associations, but the new body should be separate from them.
I believe that all hunts should be accredited members of this new organisation, as well as the Masters and other Hunt Officials. I also think it is time to bring Hunt Staff into such a membership, so they are stakeholders too. One of hunting's biggest assets is the many thousands of people who participate in our sport from all walks of life - it is time that we all played a part in the future of hunting with hounds.
Hunting with hounds has always held a key role within the countryside and the management of that countryside, especially in the modern world. It is essential we do not lose sight of this core principle, and the review will look at how the hunting community can better explain and promote all the good it does in the countryside.
I hope that the review panel will be able to report back to the Hunting Associations as soon as possible, at which point we can, with the approval of our members, act upon its recommendations and all move forward to preserve, promote and protect the sport we all love.
A further email will follow shortly to give details and timing of the review panel.
Yours Sincerely
Andrew Osborne
MFHA Chairman
I'm Dun
Well-Known Member
I despair! Just own it, distance yourself from the worst offenders and hope to god its not to late to salvage some form of legal hunting
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
?
I don't get how they don't realise that their failure to distance themselves from law breakers is what is going to lead to the loss of their way of life.
.
L&M
Well-Known Member
I would rather him cut the cr*p and just state:
- that all packs have to trail hunt
- that there will be a new governing body who enforces this
- that the same new body will also monitor this
- that hunts that are not abiding will be forced to disband
This is the only way forward for hunting - abide by the law or lose it.
- that all packs have to trail hunt
- that there will be a new governing body who enforces this
- that the same new body will also monitor this
- that hunts that are not abiding will be forced to disband
This is the only way forward for hunting - abide by the law or lose it.
Last edited:
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
Extremely well said, L&M.
Sandstone1
Well-Known Member
https://www.banburyguardian.co.uk/n...p8hExnJnUDCCcFO0lGs8tHi6s55i-sB6daI8yVEAG-tYs
They were trail hunting of course.
They were trail hunting of course.
Miss_Millie
Well-Known Member
As someone who loves riding across the countryside and loves the social aspect of horses, in theory I would enjoy modern day, legal hunting (as in no foxes involved). However, the constant stories about trespass, damage to property and animals being killed paints a really bad picture.
Going back to Rosietaz's recent incident, I would be completely mortified if I was out on my horse with a group of people who thought cutting someone's fence on their private property was acceptable. I would never do that if I was out hacking with my mates, why do some people who hunt think it is acceptable to behave in such a way?
Going back to Rosietaz's recent incident, I would be completely mortified if I was out on my horse with a group of people who thought cutting someone's fence on their private property was acceptable. I would never do that if I was out hacking with my mates, why do some people who hunt think it is acceptable to behave in such a way?
Miss_Millie
Well-Known Member
And this sums up why I'm anti-hunt. Because there are clearly some people who are just THAT desperate to hunt foxes, they will continue to do so in plain sight. Really sad and ruins it for those who just want to trail hunt legally.
Nasicus
Well-Known Member
Cor, that's a heck of a statement by the Warwickshire. Impossible to prevent? Way to load some ammo into your opposition's cannon. The argument can be made that if situations like this are impossible to prevent, then drag and trail hunting should be banned too to avoid breaking the law.
Also quite like the 'Oh we totally reported this impossible to avoid incident to the police, but also the sabs have been lying and editing!!!'. Like, either it happened and you reported it, or it didn't because the sabs made it up/manipulated the footage. Make your minds up
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
"Impossible to prevent". In all the times I went drag hunting over many years in different places, I never once saw hounds chase, never mind kill, a fox.
.
Koweyka
Well-Known Member
The Hunt Master of the Western Hunt has been found guilty of being in charge of dangerously out of control dogs that killed Little Mini the cat in her garden.
Then you have the vile Warwickshire Hunt that killed yet another fox and quite honestly it makes you wonder why large packs of hunting hounds are allowed to rampage around the country killing pets and wildlife.
Another nail in hunting’s coffin, I am sure many more will follow.
Then you have the vile Warwickshire Hunt that killed yet another fox and quite honestly it makes you wonder why large packs of hunting hounds are allowed to rampage around the country killing pets and wildlife.
Another nail in hunting’s coffin, I am sure many more will follow.
CrunchieBoi
Well-Known Member
Did wonder how long it'd take before one of them got done for having dogs dangerously out of control.
I wonder if that's something that'll be used when a pack of hounds next wind up on a busy road/railway line/people's gardens.
I wonder if that's something that'll be used when a pack of hounds next wind up on a busy road/railway line/people's gardens.
Sandstone1
Well-Known Member
If a kill is impossible to prevent then they are not in control of their hounds, if they are out of control they should not be out surely? If I cant control my dog I would be in trouble. This can not go on.......
suestowford
Well-Known Member
I've just been reading a report on the Western Hunt case, in the paper. Apparently they were on exercise, and were supposed to be using fields backing on to a housing estate. But several hounds left the pack and got in amongst the houses. Clearly they weren't under anyone's control at that point, so he was rightly done for this IMO.
But I think what upset a lot of people about this case is the callous way the hunt staff dealt with it, throwing the carcass of the cat over a fence as if it was just so much rubbish.
But I think what upset a lot of people about this case is the callous way the hunt staff dealt with it, throwing the carcass of the cat over a fence as if it was just so much rubbish.
paddy555
Well-Known Member
Koweyka
Well-Known Member
I hope this link works and I would dearly love to see what excuses the pro hunt trot out to defend this hunt master and her husband.
This is evil, pure utter evil, she should be charged as well.
Essex Police told ITV news it has “arrested a 48-year-old man from the Bures area after receiving reports of animal cruelty. He was arrested on suspicion of offences under the Hunting Act 2004, the Animal Welfare Act 2006 and the Wild Mammal Protection Act 1996. He remains in custody at this time.”
Discretion is advised watching the video.
https://fb.watch/a4GGzz0Iiw/
This is evil, pure utter evil, she should be charged as well.
Essex Police told ITV news it has “arrested a 48-year-old man from the Bures area after receiving reports of animal cruelty. He was arrested on suspicion of offences under the Hunting Act 2004, the Animal Welfare Act 2006 and the Wild Mammal Protection Act 1996. He remains in custody at this time.”
Discretion is advised watching the video.
https://fb.watch/a4GGzz0Iiw/
Sossigpoker
Well-Known Member
Jaysus Christ on a bike what the utter hell is wrong with these people?! Apart from being totally sick in the head , what purpose do they claim this torture has ?
Koweyka
Well-Known Member
I have seen some shocking cruelty to foxes, but this beggars belief, the suffering that fox endured is unimaginable.
L&M
Well-Known Member
This behaviour is abhorrent and indefensible, there is no question about that.............but please do not assume all packs have members who would behave in such a manner.
I hope they get prosecuted.
Sossigpoker
Well-Known Member
This has really shaken me , I can't bare to think of the poor fox.
Oh the things I'd do to that pair with a pitch fork...
GSD Woman
Well-Known Member
I can't watch the videos. I don't want to have nightmares.
In my part of the US an actual kill is apparently quite rare. Several of my friends who hunt have mentioned the kill isn't isn't necessary to watch the hounds work.
In my part of the US an actual kill is apparently quite rare. Several of my friends who hunt have mentioned the kill isn't isn't necessary to watch the hounds work.
Terrayza
Member
I agree completely
Queenbee
Well-Known Member
I agree this is utterly abhorrent and entirely indefensible but also agree with L&M with the statement that please do not assume that all hunts/huntmasters behave this way... this is utterly sickening but not illustrative of everyone who is *pro hunt* I hope these two are strung up and quartered!
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
Covert CCTV strikes again.
I saw the video last night, it is appalling beyond belief. I was nearly sick after watching it. I was going to post it on here once the police had commented, but behind a spoiler.
The cruelty shown here may be off the wall compared to other filmed incidents, but harvesting foxes from artificial earths for *insert nefarious purpose* is still happening.
Of course there will be much hand wringing from pro hunt, as there always is, that such incidents are very rare.
Don't believe you. Lax governance and toleration/encouragement of illegal practices has facilitated this.
I saw the video last night, it is appalling beyond belief. I was nearly sick after watching it. I was going to post it on here once the police had commented, but behind a spoiler.
The cruelty shown here may be off the wall compared to other filmed incidents, but harvesting foxes from artificial earths for *insert nefarious purpose* is still happening.
Of course there will be much hand wringing from pro hunt, as there always is, that such incidents are very rare.
Don't believe you. Lax governance and toleration/encouragement of illegal practices has facilitated this.
shortstuff99
Well-Known Member
The hunts really need to stamp this cruelty out as it is now tarring drag hunts and bloodhounds. I've seen online how people have said drag hunts are different but members of the public still think that is also a smokescreen for hunting fox, if hunt people think they're going to be left alone as they're drag hunts etc I think they're going to be in for a surprise.
What I can't wrap my head around for traditional hunts is why they keep doing this? Do they actually enjoy torturing foxes? Madness.
What I can't wrap my head around for traditional hunts is why they keep doing this? Do they actually enjoy torturing foxes? Madness.