Hunting is in a spot of bother

[sakura]

Reputation? Or a desire to no longer be deluged with death threats, property damage, livelihoods destroyed and civil unrest in the countryside by a nameless , shameless group of balaclava-clad terrorists.
Arguably not one fox has been saved as a result of all their action. If a fox is a problem it will still be culled.
Traditionally land owners never had a problem with the hunts, they were invited and welcomed until the sabs turned up (clues in the name) sabs forced the ban but not content with that they set about further disruption and chaos and prevented hunts who were observing the law from functioning at all. It's a war they couldn't lose but it gained absolutely nothing for the fox.
I know this argument has been done every which way but lets not pretend there's something noble going on here re: the licences. This is about having millions in reserve and hanging on to it.

Ah yes, the age old argument of blaming sabs for all of hunting's problems.

Or perhaps, it could be that the general, voting, public simply do not like to see foxes chased and ripped apart? I don't know, maybe we'll never know ...

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/issue/Fox_hunting

 

[palo1]

Ah yes, the age old argument of blaming sabs for all of hunting's problems.

Or perhaps, it could be that the general, voting, public simply do not like to see foxes chased and ripped apart? I don't know, maybe we'll never know ...

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/issue/Fox_hunting

I don't think'... the general, voting, public (or even most hunting folk) got to 'see foxes chased and ripped apart' even back when fox hunting was legal. Foxes were rarely seen in close proximity to hounds and many people who followed a hunt never saw a kill.

The poll you link to is over 7 years old and who knows how that was communicated to people to participate in but I agree that most people, for a variety of reasons, do not want the hunting ban overturned.

 

[sakura]

I don't think'... the general, voting, public (or even most hunting folk) got to 'see foxes chased and ripped apart' even back when fox hunting was legal. Foxes were rarely seen in close proximity to hounds and many people who followed a hunt never saw a kill.

The poll you link to is over 7 years old and who knows how that was communicated to people to participate in but I agree that most people, for a variety of reasons, do not want the hunting ban overturned.

The poll I linked has data from August 2019 to May 2022. It's from Yougov, so the poll would have been presented as all their other polls are.

I recommend you ask the general public what their opinion on fox hunting is - I'm confident that most would describe a similar opinion to the one I have. My opinion of hunting is foxes being ripped apart - because we know that is what happened whether people saw it for themselves or not.

 

[sakura]

It certainly is not just sabs who are the reason fox hunting was banned. We live in a democracy and the vast majority supported, and continue to support, the ban:

 

[Tiddlypom]

But you forget that many farmers also hate and deeply resent the attitudes and actions of sabs and where they are under pressure will choose to support local hunts (who include their neighbours and friends) rather than angry, anonymous gangs accessing their land as they please.

Farmers (except some tenant farmers) and landowners do exert a lot of clout over who accesses their land.

It was the clout of the big local sporting estate near me, with many tenanted farms of which it is a condition of the tenancy that the hunt is allowed on the land, that forced my local pack to stop illegal hunting and to switch to trail. The big sporting estate got fed up of all the bad publicity that it was attracting and gave the hunt an ultimatum - go legit or you are banned from all our land.

We've had a few seasons of blissful peace since then. But the masters have had a complete brain f@rt and have appointed for this season a new huntsman with a distinctly chequered past which will be like a red rag to a bull to the antis who have largely been leaving local pack alone recently.

Not looking forward to the new season here at all.

 

[Koweyka]

Farmers (except some tenant farmers) and landowners do exert a lot of clout over who accesses their land.

It was the clout of the big local sporting estate near me, with many tenanted farms of which it is a condition of the tenancy that the hunt is allowed on the land, that forced my local pack to stop illegal hunting and to switch to trail. The big sporting estate got fed up of all the bad publicity that it was attracting and gave the hunt an ultimatum - go legit or you are banned from all our land.

We've had a few seasons of blissful peace since then. But the masters have had a complete brain f@rt and have appointed for this season a new huntsman with a distinctly chequered past which will be like a red rag to a bull to the antis who have largely been leaving local pack alone recently.

Not looking forward to the new season here at all.

A brain f@rt is an understatement and he has already been over heard “mocking” any suggestion of trailing. I don’t envy you either unfortunately.

 

[ycbm]

Foxes were rarely seen in close proximity to hounds and many people who followed a hunt never saw a kill.

"Rarely" is, I think, not correct as I have seen hounds in close proximity to fox several times, depending on what you call "close". It is true, though, that hunt followers do not generally see foxes ripped apart. Unless they have been dug out and thrown to the hounds when the field has caught up during the digging out, the field, ime, don't follow close enough to get a good sight of the kill. They are behind the field master who usually keeps them some way behind the huntsman so as not to interfere with or endanger hounds while following a scent.
.

 

[paddy555]

But you forget that many farmers also hate and deeply resent the attitudes and actions of sabs and where they are under pressure will choose to support local hunts (who include their neighbours and friends) rather than angry, anonymous gangs accessing their land as they please. The vast majority of farmers, like horseowners do not post on public forums/social media so their attitudes cannot be guessed at. Both sides of the debate represented here know of farmers that support or resent hunting.

its not an either or situation. Some would just prefer nothing, no hunt, no sabs. Those who are tenant farmers don't have a choice and have to put up with it.

 

[millikins]

It concerns me that if Koweyka is genuinely representative of sabs then these self appointed guardians of wildlife think they have "saved" any otters from hunts. Otters have been a protected species with no hunting since 1978, any otter packs changed to hunting mink and nowadays otter hounds are the UK's rarest dog breed.

 

[Clodagh]

It concerns me that if Koweyka is genuinely representative of sabs then these self appointed guardians of wildlife think they have "saved" any otters from hunts. Otters have been a protected species with no hunting since 1978, any otter packs changed to hunting mink and nowadays otter hounds are the UK's rarest dog breed.

And it was a voluntary decision by the otter hounds to stop hunting them.

 

[suestowford]

I have lived in hunting country for 25 years and have only once seen the quarry animal in distress.
It did upset me, the stag was drenched in sweat and gasping for breath. God knows how far he'd come.

However, I have come across hunt followers many times and I'm afraid they come across as rude & self-entitled. Particularly those who follow in cars/on quads. I'd suggest that could be a big part of the dislike towards hunting in general, as well as animal welfare concerns.

 

[Koweyka]

It concerns me that if Koweyka is genuinely representative of sabs then these self appointed guardians of wildlife think they have "saved" any otters from hunts. Otters have been a protected species with no hunting since 1978, any otter packs changed to hunting mink and nowadays otter hounds are the UK's rarest dog breed.

Badgers are also a protected species but it doesn’t stop the “soft underbelly” filling them in and/or digging them out in pursuit of a fox and for the record hunting mink whether native or not is also an offence under the 2004 hunting act, but thank you for admitting to yet more illegality carried out by hunts …. I think that should be far more concerning for everyone ….

 

[millikins]

Badgers are also a protected species but it doesn’t stop the “soft underbelly” filling them in and/or digging them out in pursuit of a fox and for the record hunting mink whether native or not is also an offence under the 2004 hunting act, but thank you for admitting to yet more illegality carried out by hunts …. I think that should be far more concerning for everyone ….

So you also believe mink are a native species?

 

[YorksG]

Badgers are also a protected species but it doesn’t stop the “soft underbelly” filling them in and/or digging them out in pursuit of a fox and for the record hunting mink whether native or not is also an offence under the 2004 hunting act, but thank you for admitting to yet more illegality carried out by hunts …. I think that should be far more concerning for everyone ….

Your inability to read and comprehend, appears to have left you down, in this instance. Otter hunting stopped in the 1970s, when the hunts changed to mink, some considerable time before the hunting act!
And as an aside, mink, which are not a native animal, were released locally, by the ALF and caused utter devastation to local wildlife, including water rats.

 

[tallyho!]

It’s just completely and utterly not of this time, anymore. It’s all finished. Everything, the tweed, the silver, the wood, the velvet, the leather, the blood… there is another way, preserve the country. Many are willing to change please listen.

 

[Koweyka]

Your inability to read and comprehend, appears to have left you down, in this instance. Otter hunting stopped in the 1970s, when the hunts changed to mink, some considerable time before the hunting act!
And as an aside, mink, which are not a native animal, were released locally, by the ALF and caused utter devastation to local wildlife, including water rats.

Mink were breeding in the wild in the 1950’s after escaping from fur farms, before any deliberate releases.

 

[Koweyka]

Your inability to read and comprehend, appears to have left you down, in this instance. Otter hunting stopped in the 1970s, when the hunts changed to mink, some considerable time before the hunting act!
And as an aside, mink, which are not a native animal, were released locally, by the ALF and caused utter devastation to local wildlife, including water rats.

Again mink hunting with hounds is illegal under the hunting act.

 

[Koweyka]

So you also believe mink are a native species?

Errrrr no

 

[YorksG]

Again mink hunting with hounds is illegal under the hunting act.

Quite, no one had said that mink are currently hunted, that was rather my point about you not reading and comprehending

 

[YorksG]

Mink were breeding in the wild in the 1950’s after escaping from fur farms, before any deliberate releases.

Not in the huge numbers which flooded our local area. I was speaking to one of the ALF terrorists about this, in about 2010, that person had no idea of the impact of the releases, nor had they heard of the large number of mink run over on local roads at the time.

 

[littleshetland]

It’s just completely and utterly not of this time, anymore. It’s all finished. Everything, the tweed, the silver, the wood, the velvet, the leather, the blood… there is another way, preserve the country. Many are willing to change please listen.

This ^^^ To a lot of antis', fox hunting is every bit as abhorrent, vile and medieval as Bull fighting. I cannot believe sometimes that people still do this s*** in the 21st century.

 

[Koweyka]

Quite, no one had said that mink are currently hunted, that was rather my point about you not reading and comprehending

Pot Kettle Black Yorkie

‘“Otters have been a protected species with no hunting since 1978, any otter packs changed to hunting mink and nowadays otter hounds are the UK's rarest dog breed.” posted by Milikins just a few posts up and the comment I was replying too.

 

[YorksG]

Pot Kettle Black Yorkie

‘“Otters have been a protected species with no hunting since 1978, any otter packs changed to hunting mink and nowadays otter hounds are the UK's rarest dog breed.” posted by Milikins just a few posts up and the comment I was replying too.

Please can you explain how you interpreted that as saying that mink are currently hunted?

 

[millikins]

Pot Kettle Black Yorkie

‘“Otters have been a protected species with no hunting since 1978, any otter packs changed to hunting mink and nowadays otter hounds are the UK's rarest dog breed.” posted by Milikins just a few posts up and the comment I was replying too.

Pre hunting ban, which consigned millions of our native fauna to be mink dinner. But hey ho, mink are cute and fluffy.

 

[Koweyka]

Please can you explain how you interpreted that as saying that mink are currently hunted?

Well the “changed to hunting mink” is a bit of a giveaway and I have seen it with my own eyes as recently as June this year, why do you think the mink hunters either don’t unload the hounds or pack up as soon as they see an anti ? Because they know full well they are breaking the law and they have no plausible excuse. You are very naive if you believe mink hunting isn’t happening.

 

[millikins]

Well the “changed to hunting mink” is a bit of a giveaway and I have seen it with my own eyes as recently as June this year, why do you think the mink hunters either don’t unload the hounds or pack up as soon as they see an anti ? Because they know full well they are breaking the law and they have no plausible excuse. You are very naive if you believe mink hunting isn’t happening.

So take your evidence to court.

 

[Koweyka]

So take your evidence to court.

Thanks for the tip …..

 

[YorksG]

The change to hunting mink was in the 1970s, as milikins said. You rather failed to explain that what you were alluding to was not in fact the post you quoted, but other information which you claim to have. Our local otterhounds disbanded at the time of the hunting act, having changed from hunting otter in the 70s, to hunting illegally released mink.

 

[Koweyka]

The change to hunting mink was in the 1970s, as milikins said. You rather failed to explain that what you were alluding to was not in fact the post you quoted, but other information which you claim to have. Our local otterhounds disbanded at the time of the hunting act, having changed from hunting otter in the 70s, to hunting illegally released mink.

I replied to Milikins about Otter packs hunting mink and pointed out that otters are protected species, I pointed out that badgers are protected species but it doesn’t stop hunts targeting badgers/setts by digging out setts to get a fox, same with otters, hunts do not care if an animal is protected or not as long as they get to carry on hunting.

Can you explain why packs of hounds and men with spades are wading through rivers/streams in areas known to contain mink and otter ? Why they are digging burrows out ? Digging for buried treasure maybe ? Or are they hunting illegally for mink ? Regardless of your feelings around mink it is illegal to hunt them with dogs.

 

[YorksG]

I replied to Milikins about Otter packs hunting mink and pointed out that otters are protected species, I pointed out that badgers are protected species but it doesn’t stop hunts targeting badgers/setts by digging out setts to get a fox, same with otters, hunts do not care if an animal is protected or not as long as they get to carry on hunting.

Can you explain why packs of hounds and men with spades are wading through rivers/streams in areas known to contain mink and otter ? Why they are digging burrows out ? Digging for buried treasure maybe ? Or are they hunting illegally for mink ? Regardless of your feelings around mink it is illegal to hunt them with dogs.

I have no knowledge of these activities and I suggest that if you have, that you report your suspicions to the police in that area.