Hunting is in a spot of bother

[lizziebell]

The hunts who are Trail hunting need to behave themselves

.. and that’s half the problem. They can’t even respect landowners and follow simple instructions. Local hunt met up the road this morning. Husband has told them time and time again not to go across our private road as a short cut from the field they do hunt to get to the public road (there is a gate from that field onto the public road which they should use. Even the field owner does not have access onto our property from this gate). We’ve come home from being out this morning to trashed verges, trashed area of decorative gravel, and mud and stone all over the road. Husband has sent off a stern email to tell them to come and clean it up and not to do it again. We have cameras so we have evidence that not only was it the hunt, but red coats at that who should know better !

 

[Nancykitt]

The hunts who are Trail hunting need to behave themselves or all riding to hounds (note I did not say hunting) will be banned, and I don't have the balls to go bloodhounding, but holyshit, that looks like a great day! & bloodhounds don't kill.

Bloodhounds days were literally some of the very best days of my horsey life. Absolutely awesome.

 

[Sandstone1]

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Hunting foxes aside, is it really a good idea to canter down a steep hill on tarmac?

Besides the risk of the horse slipping, damaging its legs and causing a accident what about any other traffic?
OH WAIT!!!
Guess the sabs did it though, must be their fault! Or maybe the photo was not taken at the right time? Or maybe its not a steep hill? Or maybe the horse is only walking! Maybe the road is really made of grass!
Have I missed anything
Other excuses..... I must be a sab.... Im not
Im a townie I dont understand.... Im not and I do!

Seriously though Do hunt staff actually care about horses and hounds at all? Would you canter downhill on a road?

 

[Janique]

I don't know much about hunting but the little i saw while i was in the UK, was terrible.

Cantering on roads, blocking trafic, going at full speed everywhere, not caring about people or livestock.

Don't think that they care about their horses or the hounds either.

They seems to lose their mind and just go like lunatic !

 

[Trickywooo]

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Hunting foxes aside, is it really a good idea to canter down a steep hill on tarmac?

Besides the risk of the horse slipping, damaging its legs and causing a accident what about any other traffic?
OH WAIT!!!
Guess the sabs did it though, must be their fault! Or maybe the photo was not taken at the right time? Or maybe its not a steep hill? Or maybe the horse is only walking! Maybe the road is really made of grass!
Have I missed anything
Other excuses..... I must be a sab.... Im not
Im a townie I dont understand.... Im not and I do!

Seriously though Do hunt staff actually care about horses and hounds at all? Would you canter downhill on a road?

I don't think anyone on this thread has suggested all the bad behaviour of hunts is the fault of sabs. Both are as bad as each other in my opinion. Think they all need to get a different hobby to be honest.

 

[Tiddlypom]

.. and that’s half the problem. They can’t even respect landowners and follow simple instructions. Local hunt met up the road this morning. Husband has told them time and time again not to go across our private road as a short cut from the field they do hunt to get to the public road (there is a gate from that field onto the public road which they should use. Even the field owner does not have access onto our property from this gate). We’ve come home from being out this morning to trashed verges, trashed area of decorative gravel, and mud and stone all over the road. Husband has sent off a stern email to tell them to come and clean it up and not to do it again. We have cameras so we have evidence that not only was it the hunt, but red coats at that who should know better !

Wondering how you got on, lizziebell?

Having pictorial evidence of the nuisance is invaluable, let them argue their way out of that one.

I included photos in my recent email of complaint, and tbf I got a very swift and apologetic response making it clear that they were taking it seriously.

 

[Sandstone1]

I don't think anyone on this thread has suggested all the bad behaviour of hunts is the fault of sabs. Both are as bad as each other in my opinion. Think they all need to get a different hobby to be honest.

If the hunts stopped behaving illegally than im sure sabs would only be too pleased to get a different hobby!

 

[teapot]

I don't know much about hunting but the little i saw while i was in the UK, was terrible.

Cantering on roads, blocking trafic, going at full speed everywhere, not caring about people or livestock.

Don't think that they care about their horses or the hounds either.

They seems to lose their mind and just go like lunatic !

It’s the going home in the dark that blows my mind, without a torch or a hint of high viz between them.

 

[Trickywooo]

If the hunts stopped behaving illegally than im sure sabs would only be too pleased to get a different hobby!

I doubt it. They'll probably start harassing farmers and horse racing but that's a whole other debate.

 

[Sandstone1]

I doubt it. They'll probably start harassing farmers and horse racing but that's a whole other debate

Maybe, but at least they will have done something about a outdated and illegal pass time which should have stopped 20 years ago.

 

[Trickywooo]

Maybe, but at least they will have done something about a outdated and illegal pass time which should have stopped 20 years ago.

You clearly hold sabs in high regard. That's fine. I think sabs and hunters are as bad as each other and hold no respect for either. You are entitled to your opinion as am I.

 

[Sandstone1]

You clearly hold sabs in high regard. That's fine. I think sabs and hunters are as bad as each other and hold no respect for either. You are entitled to your opinion as am I.

I dont hold them in high regard and admit they have faults too but at least they are trying to stop a illegal activity . Yes I am intitled to my opinion as are you. I just hate hunting and the fact that its still going on 20 years after being banned is a disgrace.

 

[ester]

It’s the going home in the dark that blows my mind, without a torch or a hint of high viz between them.

I always took hiviz and lights , used to grab the hi viz out of a saddlebag if we were stuck on a road too, secretary thought it was great.

 

[palo1]

I always took hiviz and lights , used to grab the hi viz out of a saddlebag if we were stuck on a road too, secretary thought it was great.

All 3 of the hunts I have been out with regularly ensure that if we are on the road for any distance in failing light that we have a quad in front and at the rear, and that hi vis is strongly encouraged. Hounds are behind the front quad with riders following in single file. It is very rare this is needed thankfully but has been strictly enforced on every occasion that it has been necessary in my experience.

 

[Sandstone1]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1781229299344333

For those that said they wanted longer footage of the horse and rider running over the sab. This is from the bodycam of the sab. It was on a right of way. From the footage it does not look like the sab moved in to the path of the horse. In fact other riders passed very close too. Bare in mind this is a public right of way where anyone can walk. Horses cantering that close to the public not a bright idea really. They could have easily hit anyone walking there sab or not.

 

[Millionwords]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1781229299344333

For those that said they wanted longer footage of the horse and rider running over the sab. This is from the bodycam of the sab. It was on a right of way. From the footage it does not look like the sab moved in to the path of the horse. In fact other riders passed very close too. Bare in mind this is a public right of way where anyone can walk. Horses cantering that close to the public not a bright idea really. They could have easily hit anyone walking there sab or not.

Their tragectory was slow and steady, with their back to the horses coming through, so the onus is on the riders to avoid them, so the rider was either short sighted or rode them down with intent.

Hunting is an even more dangerous sport if you're a rider with such terrible vision.

 

[I'm Dun]

The warwickshire hunt are absolute idiots and are in enough trouble without this. I hope they throw the book at the rider. The sab was pretty badly injured and there is no way that should have happened

 

[Sandstone1]

Interesting viewing.

 

[Shantara]

I worked on a yard on a hunting day. They came back and gleefully announced "We killed three today!" and I was told under no uncertain terms that I have to keep my mouth shut. Wasn't the first time.
They harassed my wolfdog who 8yrs on will cower in fear if she thinks they've been about. She was in her kennel when the hunters brought the hounds round the back of the yard (where they weren't supposed to be) to bay at her, some were even pulling on the mesh of her kennel. They laughed at us, but did move their hounds on when my friend shouted at them to get them away.
My other dog, who's been attacked by off lead dogs was approached by hunt hounds. They meant her no harm but when I told the huntsman to get his hounds away from my dog because she was scared, he laughed at me. I had to kick at one of them as he did nothing to get them away. This was a foot hunt. I later found a dead fox.
They could easily get people on side, but they are their own worst enemy. I would happily attend to see the beautiful horses and hounds IF they actually did what they said they were doing and laid a trail and stopped killing foxes. But they can't help themselves. Seeing the videos of digouts with grown men whooping like apes as they throw a live fox to hounds. Despicable.
I have an interest in scent work, so watching an actual laid trail would be something I'd love to watch.

I would love to go and watch bloodhounds though, definitely one for the bucket list!

 

[Sandstone1]

It seems The Warwickshire as so far out of touch with public opinion that they think they can do no wrong. They have become a law un to themselves. Think its time they took a good hard look at themselves.

 

[Nancykitt]

As expected, there has been much hate for the hunts on social media following news stories about yesterday's meets.
According to some people, all hunts (trail, drag, bloodhounds) are killing foxes every time they go out. There's little point in arguing as it just turns into a 'class' thing (hilarious that I am being called a 'stuck up toff' - and that's one of the nicer insults - given that I'm from a north Manchester council estate & didn't even own a horse until I was in my 40s). And bloodhounds - well, apparently the clue is in the name! it seems that they rip things up to consume the blood. Looks like the runners with the hunt I rode with had a lucky escape.


Lots of talk about the Labour party's proposed ban on 'trail hunting'. Does anyone here know if it does indeed just cover trail hunting (that's all it says in the manifesto) or will it extend to drag hunting & clean boot? I can see that there's some confusion here amongst the public. I read that the proposed ban covers hunts following an 'animal based scent'...I can see what they're getting at, but how on earth could it be enforced without widespread checking? And wouldn't existing trail hunts who are using animal based scent just say that they have moved to artificial scent?

 

[Tiddlypom]

No one should be the slightest bit surprised that the general public lump fox hunting, stag hunting, trail hunting, drag hunting and blood hounding all in the same pile.

Why should the general public believe a word that anyone who hunts says? ALL the hunts declare that they are hunting within the law .

It’s easy to be scornful of those who believe that bloodhounds are also used to kill wildlife, but that is the fault of the bloodhounding and drag hunting packs who have done far too little little too late to distance themselves from the illegal trail hunting packs. Same goes for any genuinely legal trail packs - they should have been calling out the illegal hunts.

As to what the future holds once Labour sets out its full stall re banning trail hunting, I know not.

 

[I'm Dun]

The blood hounds etc need to pour some money into good publicity. Educate people what they do, include lots of goofy, friendly looking blood hounds and cute kids on scruffy ponies, less of the blood horse jumping huge hedges. Really push that they are "hunting" the clean boot. Maybe some high profile interviews with the runners? I dunno, I'm not a marketing guru, but they do need to do something. And while doing it the most important thing is that they distance themselves as far away as they possibly can from trail hunting and strongly and publicly condemn all the illegal and immoral stuff that has been going on.

 

[Sanversera]

There's a couple of sabs live locally. They've informed me that they think horses shouldn't be ridden, endurance riding and show jumping should be banned. One of the sabs used to own a pony so considers herself an authority on all things equine. A couple of years ago everyone's pet hens were released/removed overnight from their enclosures. People in the village know it was the sabs but it was never proved. A local breeder of rare breed chickens never got his flocks back. All were taken and released into nearby woodland. I don't expect many survived. A friends bantams disappeared too. The two sabs are known locally for being vociferous about hens in pens. They thoroughly disagree and feel they should be totally free range.

 

[Sandstone1]

There's a couple of sabs live locally. They've informed me that they think horses shouldn't be ridden, endurance riding and show jumping should be banned. One of the sabs used to own a pony so considers herself an authority on all things equine. A couple of years ago everyone's pet hens were released/removed overnight from their enclosures. People in the village know it was the sabs but it was never proved. A local breeder of rare breed chickens never got his flocks back. All were taken and released into nearby woodland. I don't expect many survived. A friends bantams disappeared too. The two sabs are known locally for being vociferous about hens in pens. They thoroughly disagree and feel they should be totally free range.

I think you will find that there are more and more questions being asked even in the horsey world about horse sports and some of the practices that go on. This thread however is about hunting and its not really helpful to bring in other subjects. There is a huge amount of " Whataboutery" on both sides. There are faults on the sabs side no doubt, but trail hunting is under the spotlight and rightly so.
The Warwickshire in particular is under pressure. Did you actually watch the channel 4 piece?
I fully expect a major scandal around this.
Times have changed and things are coming to light which will just not be tolerated in this day and age.

 

[Sandstone1]

No one should be the slightest bit surprised that the general public lump fox hunting, stag hunting, trail hunting, drag hunting and blood hounding all in the same pile.

Why should the general public believe a word that anyone who hunts says? ALL the hunts declare that they are hunting within the law .

It’s easy to be scornful of those who believe that bloodhounds are also used to kill wildlife, but that is the fault of the bloodhounding and drag hunting packs who have done far too little little too late to distance themselves from the illegal trail hunting packs. Same goes for any genuinely legal trail packs - they should have been calling out the illegal hunts.

As to what the future holds once Labour sets out its full stall re banning trail hunting, I know not.

If trail hunting, drag hunting and Blood hounds want to continue they need to do something drastic. The hunts that have broken the law for 20 odd years are to blame for the situation.

 

[Tiddlypom]

From yesterday’s BBC news pages.

Lewes: Eight arrests during Boxing Day hunt parade

Eight people are arrested during a Boxing Day hunt parade in Lewes.

www.bbc.com

The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra) said the government was elected on a mandate to introduce "the most ambitious animal welfare plans in a generation".

“And that is exactly what we will do," a spokesperson said.

"We are committed to a ban on trail hunting, which is being exploited as a smokescreen to cruelly kill foxes and hares."

 

[paddy555]

As expected, there has been much hate for the hunts on social media following news stories about yesterday's meets.
According to some people, all hunts (trail, drag, bloodhounds) are killing foxes every time they go out. There's little point in arguing as it just turns into a 'class' thing (hilarious that I am being called a 'stuck up toff' - and that's one of the nicer insults - given that I'm from a north Manchester council estate & didn't even own a horse until I was in my 40s). And bloodhounds - well, apparently the clue is in the name! it seems that they rip things up to consume the blood. Looks like the runners with the hunt I rode with had a lucky escape.


Lots of talk about the Labour party's proposed ban on 'trail hunting'. Does anyone here know if it does indeed just cover trail hunting (that's all it says in the manifesto) or will it extend to drag hunting & clean boot? I can see that there's some confusion here amongst the public. I read that the proposed ban covers hunts following an 'animal based scent'...I can see what they're getting at, but how on earth could it be enforced without widespread checking? And wouldn't existing trail hunts who are using animal based scent just say that they have moved to artificial scent?

our hunt trail hunts. Unfortunately it is the live fox who lays the trail.

The only way I can see it could be enforced is a total ban. Can't come quick enough for me.

Yesterday the fox laid his trail just above us followed by the hunt. We had no idea they were hunting in our area. Naughty fox, should have given notice where he was going. We were very lucky that we were able to bring in our blind horse who had the potential to have a serious accident and our laminitic who had just gone onto yard mooching. When we found him he was cantering and bucking in excitement.
They could have told us to prevent damage to our horses.

The sooner they are got rid of the better. I don't hold out much hope after their last attempt 20 years ago but one can be hopeful. The problem I see is that Labour have no idea what trail hunting (or any other sort) is beyond a group of riders and hounds following a trail and potentially engaging a fox.

It is clear from the IHT on farmers that they hadn't thought rural issues through and considered the consequences and if they were correctly aiming their legislation. I'm not sure hunting will be any different. IHT seems a very simple and straight forward issue compared to the problems of various sorts of hunting.

BTW for me it is certainly not a class thing.

 

[Sandstone1]

our hunt trail hunts. Unfortunately it is the live fox who lays the trail.

The only way I can see it could be enforced is a total ban. Can't come quick enough for me.

Yesterday the fox laid his trail just above us followed by the hunt. We had no idea they were hunting in our area. Naughty fox, should have given notice where he was going. We were very lucky that we were able to bring in our blind horse who had the potential to have a serious accident and our laminitic who had just gone onto yard mooching. When we found him he was cantering and bucking in excitement.
They could have told us to prevent damage to our horses.

The sooner they are got rid of the better. I don't hold out much hope after their last attempt 20 years ago but one can be hopeful. The problem I see is that Labour have no idea what trail hunting (or any other sort) is beyond a group of riders and hounds following a trail and potentially engaging a fox.

It is clear from the IHT on farmers that they hadn't thought rural issues through and considered the consequences and if they were correctly aiming their legislation. I'm not sure hunting will be any different. IHT seems a very simple and straight forward issue compared to the problems of various sorts of hunting.

BTW for me it is certainly not a class thing.

Its not a class thing for me either. I have been born and brought up in the countryside, owned horses and ponies for many years and have also owned livestock in the past. I have also been hunting pre ban and it was not for me.
I get very angry when people tell me I am anti because its a country thing and " Townies" do not understand. I am no townie. I do understand. I am anti because its a cruel and outdated sport. People enjoy killing foxes. If they did not they would stick to the law and trail hunt. If they simply enjoyed the ride and watching hounds work they would trail hunt. There is no excuse.

 

[paddy555]

Its not a class thing for me either. I have been born and brought up in the countryside, owned horses and ponies for many years and have also owned livestock in the past. I have also been hunting pre ban and it was not for me.
I get very angry when people tell me I am anti because its a country thing and " Townies" do not understand. I am no townie. I do understand. I am anti because its a cruel and outdated sport. People enjoy killing foxes. If they did not they would stick to the law and trail hunt. If they simply enjoyed the ride and watching hounds work they would trail hunt. There is no excuse.

we are pretty rural and there are a lot against it. There are also farmers who are not happy about having the hunt over their land but as Duchy tenants they have no choice.