I’m not sure what to think….

[HBB]

Where are you seeing this posted? I haven't read this anywhere else...

Do you have friends in the NE of Scotland? There are many posts on FB that have been left as "public" for all to read and I also have friends that know her personally.
This whole situation is going to have a catastrophic impact on our sport.

 

[Upthecreek]

Yes, she sadly has form. A below average rider with anger issues, has injured horses in her care, liveries wanted her removed due to her violent outbursts while handling their horses and showed no remorse when she left one horse with a swollen eye after an attack. A previous colleague worked 2 shifts with her and refused to work further with her due to the way she treated clients horses.
There is a lot of shock and anger locally as people can not get their head around why she waited 2 years to release the video and was suddenly upset at what had happened at the clinic. She turned up with a poorly prepared unfit horse and she didn't have the skill or knowledge to ride it at that level, she was completely out her depth, was overly vocal and heavy handed throughout the lesson, she badly let the horse down.
The whole situation is a complete mess.

I’m not sure what relevance any of that information has to the situation MT is in though? He is where he is specifically because of his actions on that day in that clinic. I don’t understand what the alleged ‘form’ of the rider has to do with what he did.

 

[muddybay]

I’m not sure what relevance any of that information has to the situation MT is in though? He is where he is specifically because of his actions on that day in that clinic. I don’t understand what the alleged ‘form’ of the rider has to do with what he did.

I agree, even if they both agreed to it which there is no evidence to suggest, MT is still at fault for what he did

 

[wills_91]

Mostly through mutual friends posts on Facebook as she is quite local to me,
The whole mark todd topic is all over the horsey and eventing forms on Facebook though

Yes I'm seeing it all over FB but not seen anything about the rider like you've stated.

 

[wills_91]

Also surely the instructer/trainer has a duty of care and if a horse presents on the day not fit enough or the rider is not at the required level/ability then the rider should be asked to leave?

 

[Upthecreek]

Also surely the instructer/trainer has a duty of care and if a horse presents on the day not fit enough or the rider is not at the required level/ability then the rider should be asked to leave?

Particularly when the instructor/trainer has the vast experience of MT having won many Olympic medals and Badminton, Burghley etc. multiple times. I’m sure someone will suggest in a minute that it was the rider’s idea for MT to whack her horse with a branch to solve the problem. Even if that was the case it doesn’t help his situation at all.

 

[HBB]

Also surely the instructer/trainer has a duty of care and if a horse presents on the day not fit enough or the rider is not at the required level/ability then the rider should be asked to leave?

I agree with everything you have said and MT will have to answer for his actions, the video was awful to watch.

 

[Bay.chestnut.coloure]

I’m not sure what relevance any of that information has to the situation MT is in though? He is where he is specifically because of his actions on that day in that clinic. I don’t understand what the alleged ‘form’ of the rider has to do with what he did.

Because it seems very hypocritical that she would make a big fuss of this when she has no issues doing it herself to horses? punching a horses, bullying etc? And that’s from multiple people…
I don’t agree with what mark todd has done in the video at all and I would not support that kind of training but I think it has all been blown out of proportion, and I don’t think he deserves his career ruined for this…she is partly responsible I think…

 

[Upthecreek]

Because it seems very hypocritical that she would make a big fuss of this when she has no issues doing it herself to horses? punching a horses, bullying etc? And that’s from multiple people…
I don’t agree with what mark todd has done in the video at all and I would not support that kind of training but I think it has all been blown out of proportion, and I don’t think he deserves his career ruined for this…she is partly responsible I think…

The thing is though that her motives for posting the video, whatever they may be, are irrelevant. The hypocrisy is also irrelevant. If multiple people have seen her punching and bullying horses perhaps they should have done something about it. She is not responsible in any way for MT’s actions.

 

[Bay.chestnut.coloure]

The thing is though that her motives for posting the video, whatever they may be, are irrelevant. The hypocrisy is also irrelevant. If multiple people have seen her punching and bullying horses perhaps they should have done something about it. She is not responsible in any way for MT’s actions.

do you think his career deserved to be destroyed over this? Cus I would personally say that’s too far… and she is partly responsible for that in my opinion as it could’ve been dealt with privately or to the relevant authorities…not trial by social media 2 years later…I think he made a very bad call but to have his life destroyed over a bad decision… I mean it’s scary no one can ever make a wrong move these days. And yes ive seen people say well if that’s how he treats her horse how does he treat them at home but no one has any proof of that… maybe he does but maybe he doesn’t but I really think it’s gone too far… it was a bad training technique but I doubt it had any lasting effect on the horse (evident by him schooling in the water and doing BE100 few days later). As you say with that girl mistreating other people’s horses if MT has been mistreating horses then people should speak up but not blast him on social media over this one 10 second clip … why is he getting vilified then but the girl is let away with punching other peoples horses? To the point where they got a swollen eye (arguably worse as thats going to last a few days or more)? Neither situations should’ve been blasted all over social media in my opinion

 

[Upthecreek]

do you think his career deserved to be destroyed over this? Cus I would personally say that’s too far… and she is partly responsible for that in my opinion as it could’ve been dealt with privately or to the relevant authorities…not trial by social media 2 years later…I think he made a very bad call but to have his life destroyed over a bad decision… I mean it’s scary no one can ever make a wrong move these days. And yes ive seen people say well if that’s how he treats her horse how does he treat them at home but no one has any proof of that… maybe he does but maybe he doesn’t but I really think it’s gone too far… it was a bad training technique but I doubt it had any lasting effect on the horse (evident by him schooling in the water and doing BE100 few days later). As you say with that girl mistreating other people’s horses if MT has been mistreating horses then people should speak up but not blast him on social media over this one 10 second clip … why is he getting vilified then but the girl is let away with punching other peoples horses? To the point where they got a swollen eye? Neither situations should’ve been blasted all over social media in my opinion

It’s not a 10 second clip. Have you watched the unedited video?

It doesn’t matter what I think. He is facing the consequences of being filmed whacking a horse with a branch. He has decades of experience at the highest level of his sport and people are disappointed that someone they respected has behaved like that. As for his reputation and business interests; it is for those who work and associate with him to decide for themselves whether they wish to continue those relationships.

If the rider is physically abusive to horses as you alleged, she has got away with it because people who witnessed the behaviour did nothing. I still maintain that has no relevance to MT’s situation.

Everyone knows there is a chance that anything they do can be filmed and shared on social media. Like it or not that is the world we are living in now.

 

[Bay.chestnut.coloure]

It’s not a 10 second clip. Have you watched the unedited video?

It doesn’t matter what I think. He is facing the consequences of being filmed whacking a horse with a branch. He has decades of experience at the highest level of his sport and people are disappointed that someone they respected has behaved like that. As for his reputation and business interests; it is for those who work and associate with him to decide for themselves whether they wish to continue those relationships.

If the rider is physically abusive to horses as you alleged, she has got away with it because people who witnessed the behaviour did nothing. I still maintain that has no relevance to MT’s situation.

Everyone knows there is a chance that anything they do can be filmed and shared on social media. Like it or not that is the world we are living in now.

I have and he was not hitting the horse the whole length of time...of course its about what you think.. thats what this whole thread is of everyone's opinions... and what I think is that the consequences he faced for that were way too harsh... it was a bad training technique, but i dont think his intentions were bad... and by that i mean I dont think he is an animal abusing physco that needs to stay away from horses... i dont think his intentions were to go there and hurt the horse for no reason, he was trying to get the horse in the water... using a very bad an old fashioned training technique, but thats what he did do in that moment... i dont think he does deserve getting vilified for that.

Yes everyone knows you can be filmed and put online...but thats a huge issue we are facing right now that needs addressed, so often things are just shared without any consideration and maybe people need to actually start thinking before they post.

 

[Upthecreek]

I have and he was not hitting the horse the whole length of time...of course its about what you think.. thats what this whole thread is of everyone's opinions... and what I think is that the consequences he faced for that were way too harsh... it was a bad training technique, but i dont think his intentions were bad... and by that i mean I dont think he is an animal abusing physco that needs to stay away from horses... i dont think his intentions were to go there and hurt the horse for no reason, he was trying to get the horse in the water... using a very bad an old fashioned training technique, but thats what he did do in that moment... i dont think he does deserve getting vilified for that.

Yes everyone knows you can be filmed and put online...but thats a huge issue we are facing right now that needs addressed, so often things are just shared without any consideration and maybe people need to actually start thinking before they post.

Do you honestly think that was the very first time in his many decades of training horses that MT used that “very bad and old fashioned training technique”? Whilst he may not have intended to physically hurt the horse, what damage do you think has been done to horse sport and horse riding in general as a result of the public watching that video?

 

[Bay.chestnut.coloure]

Do you honestly think that was the very first time in his many decades of training horses that MT used that “very bad and old fashioned training technique”? Whilst he may not have intended to physically hurt the horse, what damage do you think has been done to horse sport and horse riding in general as a result of the public watching that video?

no I don’t but I think these are old fashioned techniques that have been used and probably always needed addressed but why is mark todd singled out then vilified? Should we go on a witch hunt after all the trainers who use this technique now then? We all knew these were techniques still used prior to this so we’re was all the anger before this video? I’m sure he is not the first person to have ever done this in a lesson… Is he to be the sacrificial lamb and get his career destroyed for this? Training techniques have been changing over time but it’s not over night and I certainly don’t think people will have watched this video and changed their minds over night, I don’t think this video has benefitted anyone… there will be those who stick up for MT and send hate and threats to the girl and those that stick up for the girl and send hate and threats to MT, so all it’s turned into is a slanging match and people’s lives are destroyed. Never mind MT but some instructors saying they wouldn’t have her in their lessons either… so who benefitted from blasting over social media?
As for the damage- People are probably going to watch this and think riding is an abusive sport, but it’s not, majority of people don’t ride like this anymore, so then why put it on social media and make it out like it is? the damage was done when she posted this on social media, which is my whole point in the first place that it should have been dealt with privately.

 

[Upthecreek]

no I don’t but I think these are old fashioned techniques that have been used and probably always needed addressed but why is mark todd singled out then vilified? Should we go on a witch hunt after all the trainers who use this technique now then? We all knew these were techniques still used prior to this so we’re was all the anger before this video? I’m sure he is not the first person to have ever done this in a lesson… Is he to be the sacrificial lamb and get his career destroyed for this? Training techniques have been changing over time but it’s not over night and I certainly don’t think people will have watched this video and changed their minds over night, I don’t think this video has benefitted anyone… there will be those who stick up for MT and send hate and threats to the girl and those that stick up for the girl and send hate and threats to MT, so all it’s turned into is a slanging match and people’s lives are destroyed. Never mind MT but some instructors saying they wouldn’t have her in their lessons either… so who benefitted from blasting over social media?
As for the damage- People are probably going to watch this and think riding is an abusive sport, but it’s not, majority of people don’t ride like this anymore, so then why put it on social media and make it out like it is? the damage was done when she posted this on social media, which is my whole point in the first place that it should have been dealt with privately.

Well obviously MT has been singled out because he’s been caught on camera doing it! As for your assertion that this is a well known/used technique, I can’t agree with that. And if you think that makes it excusable then we have to agree to disagree. In any case, it doesn’t mean it’s something that should be overlooked. That said the people who send hate and threats to either party are idiots in my opinion, I totally disagree with that.

The damage was done when MT whacked the horse with the branch. The fact it was filmed and shared is a sign of the times, which every single one of us should be aware of.

 

[Bay.chestnut.coloure]

Well obviously MT has been singled out because he’s been caught on camera doing it! As for your assertion that this is a well known/used technique, I can’t agree with that. And if you think that makes it excusable then we have to agree to disagree. In any case, it doesn’t mean it’s something that should be overlooked. That said the people who send hate and threats to either party are idiots in my opinion, I totally disagree with that.

The damage was done when MT whacked the horse with the branch. The fact it was filmed and shared is a sign of the times, which every single one of us should be aware of.

it’s just strange that you are not just as outraged by the girl punching a horse and say it has nothing to do with MT situation, maybe doesn’t but this whole issue is about mistreatment of animals hence why I brought it up, I find it very hypocritical of her destroying MT life over this when she (allegedly) punches horses, hence why I brought it up… ok we don’t have that on tape and it is just talk but I don’t think it’s totally irrelevant which is what you were asking about in the first place .
So the difference between someone’s Life destroyed is whether or not they have it on film… I find that scary and wrong, you can say it’s just the way we’re headed, but I think it needs more consideration. People who do bad things need called out, but not trial by social media in my opinion anyway, maybe you disagree but that’s my opinion

 

[Upthecreek]

It is irrelevant because he has been filmed doing what he did and she hasn’t. Perhaps the witnesses to the rider allegedly punching a horse should have done something about it.

As for the trial by media, whether you agree or disagree with it, it’s not where we’re headed it’s where we are. I’m afraid people need to realise that for all the advantages modern technology and social media platforms give us, there is a risk of anything we do in public being filmed and shared.

 

[Bay.chestnut.coloure]

It is irrelevant because he has been filmed doing what he did and she hasn’t. Perhaps the witnesses to the rider allegedly punching a horse should have done something about it.

As for the trial by media, whether you agree or disagree with it, it’s not where we’re headed it’s where we are. I’m afraid people need to realise that for all the advantages modern technology and social media platforms give us, there is a risk of anything we do in public being filmed and shared.

Maybe where we are but people can also actually start thinking about what they’re posting before they post it, aside from the threats to the people involved, like you say it’s only damaging for the sport… MT did what he did at the time, but the damage to the sport was done when she put it on social media, if like you say it’s not a common training technique by posting it she made it seem like it is to the general public who don’t know the sport, which is what is putting the sport at risk. I agree people need to realise the risk, hence why I’m saying maybe more consideration before posting anything

 

[Hepsibah]

Maybe where we are but people can also actually start thinking about what they’re posting before they post it, aside from the threats to the people involved, like you say it’s only damaging for the sport… MT did what he did at the time, but the damage to the sport was done when she put it on social media, if like you say it’s not a common training technique by posting it she made it seem like it is to the general public who don’t know the sport, which is what is putting the sport at risk. I agree people need to realise the risk, hence why I’m saying maybe more consideration before posting anything

The damage done to the sport was done when she put it on social media? Are you kidding? If you have got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to worry about. People do need to realise the risk, hence why I'm saying maybe more consideration before mistreating anything.

 

[Bay.chestnut.coloure]

The damage done to the sport was done when she put it on social media? Are you kidding? If you have got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to worry about. People do need to realise the risk, hence why I'm saying maybe more consideration before mistreating anything.

Yes because that’s not how most riders these days ride… by putting it on there it makes it seem like it is! I agree more consideration before mistreatment too, but I do think social media is dangerous! Maybe everyone just think before they act on anything!

 

[marmalade76]

Oh, is that the Top Gear in Tractors thing?

That's actually really good. And it helps that it's presented by someone who does tractor work himself.

 

[cauda equina]

it’s just strange that you are not just as outraged by the girl punching a horse and say it has nothing to do with MT situation, maybe doesn’t but this whole issue is about mistreatment of animals hence why I brought it up, I find it very hypocritical of her destroying MT life over this when she (allegedly) punches horses, hence why I brought it up… ok we don’t have that on tape and it is just talk but I don’t think it’s totally irrelevant which is what you were asking about in the first place .
So the difference between someone’s Life destroyed is whether or not they have it on film… I find that scary and wrong, you can say it’s just the way we’re headed, but I think it needs more consideration. People who do bad things need called out, but not trial by social media in my opinion anyway, maybe you disagree but that’s my opinion

I wonder if she posted it to deflect criticism from herself onto him
Perhaps she was getting slated for her own treatment of horses and thought she could save herself by saying But look what MT did!

 

[Regandal]

I’ve just seen stills from the Panorama programme. Horrific. That poor cow in the crush with blood pouring from her mouth, cows left to die in agony. Dear God ?. Thank goodness for technology that allows such treatment to be exposed. The farm is being investigated.
I’ll be urging everyone I know to boycott Morrisons, they buy milk produced by that farm.

 

[eahotson]

I’ve just seen stills from the Panorama programme. Horrific. That poor cow in the crush with blood pouring from her mouth, cows left to die in agony. Dear God ?. Thank goodness for technology that allows such treatment to be exposed. The farm is being investigated.
I’ll be urging everyone I know to boycott Morrisons, they buy milk produced by that farm.

Thank you for the information.

 

[ycbm]

Yes because that’s not how most riders these days ride…

It's only 2 years old, isn't it? I don't think anything has changed in that time. But it will now 3 abuse cases have gone wild on social media in a very short time. In public at least.
.

 

[TPO]

It's only 2 years old, isn't it? I don't think anything has changed in that time. But it will now 3 abuse cases have gone wild on social media in a very short time. In public at least.
.

Exactly....the olden days of, emm, two years ago??

If this chloeteventing is as awful as you imply then where were the owners, employers and fellow liveries? Even if she was the worst person in the world that doesn't excuse or explain MTs actions.

Anyone can post anything. Yes she put the video out there but the spread of it and and traction it gained is because what it contained was upsetting and angering to everyone who cares about horses and has a basic understanding of how not to train a horse.

MT is the only one responsible for his actions.

Of course he shouldn't be receiving death threats or anything of the sort. People making them should be dealt with appropriately as it is an offense.

People popping up to defend him are making it worse with them trying to rewrite what can be seen in full colour and details. The blogger who thought it was funny and oh how they laughed all session about it ? I don't think I'd lose any money if I bet on at least one pro posting in defence trying to get ahead of the game knowing what's been filmed at their own clinics either.

Stop trying to blame the people against beating and scaring horses for "ruining" the sport and start stopping the people who treat animals that way!

 

[Bay.chestnut.coloure]

Exactly....the olden days of, emm, two years ago??

If this chloeteventing is as awful as you imply then where were the owners, employers and fellow liveries? Even if she was the worst person in the world that doesn't excuse or explain MTs actions.

Anyone can post anything. Yes she put the video out there but the spread of it and and traction it gained is because what it contained was upsetting and angering to everyone who cares about horses and has a basic understanding of how not to train a horse.

MT is the only one responsible for his actions.

Of course he shouldn't be receiving death threats or anything of the sort. People making them should be dealt with appropriately as it is an offense.

People popping up to defend him are making it worse with them trying to rewrite what can be seen in full colour and details. The blogger who thought it was funny and oh how they laughed all session about it ? I don't think I'd lose any money if I bet on at least one pro posting in defence trying to get ahead of the game knowing what's been filmed at their own clinics either.

Stop trying to blame the people against beating and scaring horses for "ruining" the sport and start stopping the people who treat animals that way!

It's only 2 years old, isn't it? I don't think anything has changed in that time. But it will now 3 abuse cases have gone wild on social media in a very short time. In public at least.
.

I feel like I’m going round in circles…
mark todd does not represent how most riders ride tho… I never said these things don’t happen but as others have said this is not common practice, times are changing but it takes time.

I’m not defending his actions but I am defending him because i find it so wrong how he has been singled out and had his life ruined for this. I don’t think he deserved that at all. How do you deal with the death threats? By keeping it off social media, how else?

The way this situation has been handled was just totally wrong and I brought up the girls actions because I find it very hypocritical that she would destroy someone’s life over this when she herself has made questionable decisions regarding the welfare of horses. In my opinion people who are there need to deal with it, I have never once said I agree with what he did hence why it should be dealt with appropriately. To me that is not to plaster it all over social media, because it has done no good for anyone

 

[Bay.chestnut.coloure]

Exactly....the olden days of, emm, two years ago??

If this chloeteventing is as awful as you imply then where were the owners, employers and fellow liveries? Even if she was the worst person in the world that doesn't excuse or explain MTs actions.

Anyone can post anything. Yes she put the video out there but the spread of it and and traction it gained is because what it contained was upsetting and angering to everyone who cares about horses and has a basic understanding of how not to train a horse.

MT is the only one responsible for his actions.

Of course he shouldn't be receiving death threats or anything of the sort. People making them should be dealt with appropriately as it is an offense.

People popping up to defend him are making it worse with them trying to rewrite what can be seen in full colour and details. The blogger who thought it was funny and oh how they laughed all session about it ? I don't think I'd lose any money if I bet on at least one pro posting in defence trying to get ahead of the game knowing what's been filmed at their own clinics either.

Stop trying to blame the people against beating and scaring horses for "ruining" the sport and start stopping the people who treat animals that way!

I’m also not blaming people against beating and scaring horses, but there are other ways of stopping people who mistreat animals, like maybe just telling them first! Before you decide to hang dry and butcher them on social media. My whole point is not trying to defend people who mistreat animals, but is social media, where like you say people will get angry and upset, the best way to deal with it?
And yes you should be angry upset at that video, but then there are always going to be the people who take it one step further and start threatening people. There are also going to be people unfamiliar with the sport thinking that’s how we all ride when it’s not. There’s the negative implacstions for our sport.
I would say most people already had a basic understanding that that’s not how you train a horse… but to the public who don’t know anything about horses they’re probably going to think that’s common practice.
it should not have been posted at all, it’s done no good to anyone. Most people already knew that was wrong, and people who don’t are defending MT so no one has changed their minds, all that’s happened is people get threatened and have their lives ruined.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Getting an unwilling horse to jump into water by whacking it will be common practice among the less talented riders and trainers - those with nothing else in their skill set to fall back on.

What most of us are so shocked about is that a rider of MT's experience and talents resorted to doing the same.

I don't think that the video was originally posted with the aim of creating a furore about MT. It was posted with a funny soundtrack to gain laughs, which in itself speaks volumes about the attitude of the person who put it up.

 

[Regandal]

I’m also not blaming people against beating and scaring horses, but there are other ways of stopping people who mistreat animals, like maybe just telling them first! Before you decide to hang dry and butcher them on social media. My whole point is not trying to defend people who mistreat animals, but is social media, where like you say people will get angry and upset, the best way to deal with it?
And yes you should be angry upset at that video, but then there are always going to be the people who take it one step further and start threatening people. There are also going to be people unfamiliar with the sport thinking that’s how we all ride when it’s not. There’s the negative implacstions for our sport.
I would say most people already had a basic understanding that that’s not how you train a horse… but to the public who don’t know anything about horses they’re probably going to think that’s common practice.
it should not have been posted at all, it’s done no good to anyone. Most people already knew that was wrong, and people who don’t are defending MT so no one has changed their minds, all that’s happened is people get threatened and have their lives ruined.

With regard to getting plastered on msm, I think it’s a good thing in most cases. Yes, there are nutters out there, but they’ve always been out there. If the chance of being filmed and exposed on sm stops a good few people abusing animals then hallelujah. Karma has found a smartphone….. and also, that girl’s motives for posting sound a bit suspicious, be sure and your sins will find you out, as my granny used to say.