I’m not sure what to think….

chocolategirl said:
There’s just different levels of abuse imo, just because you don’t see this as abuse, doesn’t mean it isn’t, it’s maybe just ‘low level’ abuse, but abuse all the same, and I would have expected better from someone with his experience tbh?
Edited to add, I can’t bring myself to watch the video, so I’m not in a position to say if it’s abusive or not, but I get the gist from everyone else’s reactions?
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You'll probably be ok to watch it.
I'm pretty squeamish about this kind of thing and can't watch most videos through but can get through this one. It's the sort of thing that happens quite a lot, if you've been knocking around horses for a decent amount of time then you will have probably witnessed similar.
 
Cortez said:
OK, here's what I see: a very weak rider not riding her horse forwards enough into the water - I presume that Mark Todd (hard to positively identify in the video, but doesn't really matter who it is) has been telling her to ride it more positively, but he obviously has a twig ready to provide some "encouragement". The first few times he's just swishing the twig; the horse is coming in with less, and less power each time - rider's doing nothing. The final time he whacks the horse a few times (not 10) after it has ground to the inevitable and entirely predictable, halt. Would I do this? No. Is it "horse abuse"? No, it's weak rider plus frustrated trainer = stupid thing to do.

P.S. I don't see the horse "gaining in confidence" at all - quite the opposite, it's coming in with less and less power each time, which is why trainer guy is preparing to "help".

PPS. You lads may not like it, but there is a fair amount of "positive encouragement"/stick involved in professional riding and training. Waaay more than you'd like, actually.
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I counted ten. Ten thwacks with a thin stick. Is it horse abuse? Yes it absolutely is. I don't give a shiny sh1t who you think you are. If it were some young unknown girl whipping her horse like this because she felt it was "training" it, nobody would think it was anything but abuse.
 
Snail said:
It's not an abused horse, but it is being abused in this video.

On the subject of how you classify abuse:
abuse
VERB

  1. use (something) to bad effect or for a bad purpose; misuse.
    "the judge abused his power by imposing the fines"
    synonyms:
    misuse · misapply · misemploy · mishandle · exploit · pervert · take advantage of


  2. treat with cruelty or violence, especially regularly or repeatedly.
    "riders who abuse their horses should be prosecuted"
    synonyms:
    mistreat · maltreat · ill-treat · treat badly · ill-use · misuse ·
    [More]
it both being 'mishandled', because the branch is lazy training and ineffectual, and 'treated with cruelty and violence....repeatedly'.
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This, absolutely.
 
Billyandme said:
Watched this a couple of times and I stand to be corrected, but I don't think that is Mark todd. The leg length and actual bidy shape does not resemble him at all. Mark Todd is very tall and almost slender in body shape. Also very tall.
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I do hope so - I’m on the fence
 
I thought that it looked like the rider kept thinking that she had finished, and was starting to pull up when repeatedly being asked to go round again. I expect that the horse thought that it had finished ,too.

It's not just the whacking, although that is very bad. It's the poor timing and poor training from one of eventings elite.
 
Tiddlypom said:
I thought that it looked like the rider kept thinking that she had finished, and was starting to pull up when repeatedly being asked to go round again. I expect that the horse thought that it had finished ,too.

It's not just the whacking, although that is very bad. It's the poor timing and poor training from one of eventings elite.
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I was just thinking about that, taking aside the mistreatment of the horse for a second (although that's obviously and rightly the main issue here), if I'd turned up to a clinic/lesson/workshop with a top name rider I'd be pretty cheesed off to have paid (I'm guessing quite a lot of money) for...that.
 
So what did the rider learn from that?
Has it improved her technique riding a horse sticking at a fence?
There was so much help he could have given that rider.

What did the horse learn from that?
Apart from humans can be a-holes.

Surely the object of the exercise was to improve horse and rider technique and confidence.
Hardly preparing a horse for the next question is it.

Look at the bay horse on the right, his reaction tells us all we need to know.
 
Different topic somewhat but I still don’t know how the media haven’t picked up that gobshite h.s. Do they only care about people they can destroy? (Not enough human left in h to destroy.)
 
Cortez said:
There goes racing, dressage, polo, all jumping, driving, lunging, natural horsemanship, in-hand - basically all of horse training......
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But you do not have to or need to hit them. The clue is in the word training.. Training does not have to involve hitting or any abuse. As I said before times are changing and I hope for the better.
 
Hepsibah said:
I counted ten. Ten thwacks with a thin stick. Is it horse abuse? Yes it absolutely is. I don't give a shiny sh1t who you think you are. If it were some young unknown girl whipping her horse like this because she felt it was "training" it, nobody would think it was anything but abuse.
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Out of interest - would you count a lazy/tired/sour riding school horse getting ten whip hits in a lesson abuse too?

I go back to what I said mid Tokyo Olympics - if people want things to change, they need to start addressing the harsh reality that a huge number of people do far worse than what’s in that video on a daily basis.
 
Cortez said:
There goes racing, dressage, polo, all jumping, driving, lunging, natural horsemanship, in-hand - basically all of horse training......
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There will always be trainers that rely on these techniques, but there are also a growing number of people - amateurs and professionals - that use only ethical (and supported by science) methods in training. Yes, in some disciplines, this is much more common. But what a defeatist attitude to assume that no horse sport is possible without hitting horses.

teapot said:
Out of interest - would you count a lazy/tired/sour riding school horse getting ten whip hits in a lesson abuse too?
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Yes, I would. And it sickens me to think it wouldn't to someone else.

When I was a kid, I witnessed an instructor at my RS do something very similar to a very sour little pony. I said nothing because between I knew he wouldn't have taken me seriously, I being the inexperienced child expected to learn from this. But that scene still haunts me, I still feel bitter hatred towards said instructor, and I still feel guilty that I never said anything.

Plus, it didn't even work. Sure, the rider got one trot out of it afterwards, panicked and rushed, running into the hindquarters of the horse in front. And then it just shut down completely. Was even worse the next day.
 
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