I’m not sure what to think….

Equi

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?????? If you think that will end his career that you are magnificently wrong. I have seen those as successful as him do far worse and get away with it.
No I don’t think it will end his career but he will no longer be hailed as the hero he has always been seen as. It will hit him in the pocket somehow (though I suspect those pockets are already rather large)
 

scats

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I feel like the action was a mixture of frustration/loss of patience. If he had stood behind it and continued to waggle the branch to encourage it via the noise, that would have been one thing. Or even rested it against its bum as encouragement, but I felt like it tipped into a loss of control/act of frustration. Yes, there is far worse abuse out there. Far, far worse, in fact. But still, that’s not the way I like to see an animal trained and I don’t think we should be ‘ok’ with it.
 

TPO

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Never sure why the "there is worse that happens" or "others get away with it" are trotted out as excuses every time something like this happens.

Abuse of animals should be tackled at all levels regardless of the perpetrator or their achievements, social standing or wealth.
 

Hepsibah

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Out of interest - would you count a lazy/tired/sour riding school horse getting ten whip hits in a lesson abuse too?

I go back to what I said mid Tokyo Olympics - if people want things to change, they need to start addressing the harsh reality that a huge number of people do far worse than what’s in that video on a daily basis.

Yes. You don't really need an explanation why it is abusive to hit a horse over and over and over again do you? Really? If people want things to change, it needs to have a light shone on it every time it rears it's ugly head. That includes Mark Todd whaling on a horse to "train" it, riding schools allowing beatings to be given to their horses in lessons and any other cruelty you care to mention.
 

stangs

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Also, if one person is in a relationship where their OH locks them up in the basement and has cut off their legs, and another in a relationship where their OH frequently yells at them and throws glassware in their direction: both people are in abusive relationships, regardless of the intensity of the abuse. Sure, one OH may be locked away for life, one may just be given a restraining order - but they're still both abusive.
 

Cortez

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Why so trite and dismissive?
I'm neither. Look, don't get me wrong, I am utterly opposed to abuse of any animal and I have spent a considerable part of my life working with neglected and traumatised horses, dogs and other animals. But getting all aerated about this type of rough justice is misplaced when there is so much outright nastiness out there, often unrealised or unacknowledged. One of the many reasons I left the professional training world is because I wasn't prepared to do the things many considered necessary to get horses to the top. I have NEVER resorted to whaling the a*se off a horse to get to do something, but the idea that horses are trained to high levels with nothing but sugar lumps is naive .
 

[153312]

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Never sure why the "there is worse that happens" or "others get away with it" are trotted out as excuses every time something like this happens.

Abuse of animals should be tackled at all levels regardless of the perpetrator or their achievements, social standing or wealth.
I agree wholeheartedly with this. EVERY form of abuse should be called out, at ALL levels - whether it's an olympian hitting a horse with a stick, badly fitting tack at a riding club, or a horse being left to starve. All are abuse and all are unacceptable.
 

teapot

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Never sure why the "there is worse that happens" or "others get away with it" are trotted out as excuses every time something like this happens.

Abuse of animals should be tackled at all levels regardless of the perpetrator or their achievements, social standing or wealth.

Probably because like always, there will be 48hrs of social media outrage before it becomes yesterday's news. Meanwhile far worse cases of abuse will go ignored and the hundreds commenting on fb/insta/tiktok will turn a blind eye to right under their noses. That's what annoys me. That video is supposedly two years old, horse looks well cared for etc, lots more recent vids on the rider's instagram account, meanwhile how many horses got smacked around at BS across the UK today alone?

Yes. You don't really need an explanation why it is abusive to hit a horse over and over and over again do you? Really? If people want things to change, it needs to have a light shone on it every time it rears it's ugly head. That includes Mark Todd whaling on a horse to "train" it, riding schools allowing beatings to be given to their horses in lessons and any other cruelty you care to mention.

So a kid ineffectively using their stick is abusing their riding school pony? Shining a light every time it happens would end the industry in five minutes flat. Where do you draw the line?

Like Cortez, I'm pro calling out any abuse, but I'm really not sure some realise how precarious the situtation truly is when it comes to our hobby and industry at the moment, or indeed that outrage is aimed in the right directions.
 
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AmyMay

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but the idea that horses are trained to high levels with nothing but sugar lumps is naive.

I think that most people involved with horses understand that, but we hope and expect better. And if such behaviour is made public it should be called out.

And those offended by such behaviour should not be ridiculed for their upset and concern.
 

[153312]

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I'm neither. Look, don't get me wrong, I am utterly opposed to abuse of any animal and I have spent a considerable part of my life working with neglected and traumatised horses, dogs and other animals. But getting all aerated about this type of rough justice is misplaced when there is so much outright nastiness out there, often unrealised or unacknowledged. One of the many reasons I left the professional training world is because I wasn't prepared to do the things many considered necessary to get horses to the top. I have NEVER resorted to whaling the a*se off a horse to get to do something, but the idea that horses are trained to high levels with nothing but sugar lumps is naive .
no one has said you can train to high levels with 'nothing but sugar lumps', or implied anything of the sort. That's gross hyperbole.
But you can be assertive, safe, and effective without resorting to giving the animal a hiding which it will learn nothing from.
 

Hepsibah

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Probably because like always, there will be 48hrs of social media outrage before it becomes yesterday's news. Meanwhile far worse cases of abuse will go ignored and the hundreds commenting on fb/insta/tiktok will turn a blind eye to, right under their noses. That's what annoys me. That video is supposedly two years old, horse looks well cared for etc, lots more recent vids on the rider's instagram account, meanwhile how many horses got smacked around at BS across the UK today alone?



So a kid ineffectively using their stick is abusing their riding school pony? Shining a light every time it happens would end the industry in five minutes flat. Where do you draw the line?

Like Cortez, I'm pro calling out any abuse, but I'm really not sure some realise how precarious the situtation truly is when it comes to our hobby and industry at the moment, or indeed that outrage is aimed in the right directions.
The quote was a reply to a riding school horse being hit with a whip. Interesting how you downgrade that to a child ineffectively using their stick.
I think you'll find it's the ones sticking up for those who inflict this sort of abuse are the ones who turn a blind eye to it. Where do you draw the line?
 

teapot

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The quote was a reply to a riding school horse being hit with a whip. Interesting how you downgrade that to a child ineffectively using their stick.

Yes because on average kids with sticks on ponies is what riding schools are about. You took it to mean an adult beating something around, I didn't.

I think you'll find it's the ones sticking up for those who inflict this sort of abuse are the ones who turn a blind eye to it. Where do you draw the line?

Utter ball-cocks. FWIW I quit a job of three years in part because the welfare of the horses wasn't considered enough. Sure they were cared for well but their workload was appalling. Please don't talk to me about turning a blind eye.

I think overworked horses being repeatedly kicked in the ribs, three or four hours a day is possibly far more abusive long term, than one too many hard smacks with a whip...
 

DabDab

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no one has said you can train to high levels with 'nothing but sugar lumps', or implied anything of the sort. That's gross hyperbole.
But you can be assertive, safe, and effective without resorting to giving the animal a hiding which it will learn nothing from.

People pretty much have. And those comments read as naive to me as they seem to to Cortez.

Every high level dressage rider that I have had access to see a decent amount of their training has had an element of what I would describe as unethical practice. As a standard in horse sport horses are trained with pressure. And that pressure and the way it is applied routinely goes too far. In many ways all the main horse sports are rotten from the top down tbh.

Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

And someone isn't condoning one abusive act just because they point out the bigger picture.
 

SatansLittleHelper

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Never sure why the "there is worse that happens" or "others get away with it" are trotted out as excuses every time something like this happens.

Abuse of animals should be tackled at all levels regardless of the perpetrator or their achievements, social standing or wealth.

This, in spades. ALL abuse needs to be called out, whether it's as in this video or starvation, neglect etc....it's all abuse. No matter how you dress it up there just isn't an excuse, EVER.
 

Mule

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The beast used to be afraid of drains. I got him confident by leading him up to nose them then after a while put his feet in and then finally lunging him over. In saying this, I have 0.0% talent compared to Mark Todd, although, maybe more patience.

But ime, most people just beat them across so it's not exactly rare. We shouldn't pretend it's not the norm.
 

Hepsibah

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Utter ball-cocks. FWIW I quit a job of three years in part because the welfare of the horses wasn't considered enough. Sure they were cared for well but their workload and lack of maintence/veterinary aid was appalling. Please don't talk to me about turning a blind eye.
You are the one talking about blind eyes Teapot.

..... the hundreds commenting on fb/insta/tiktok will turn a blind eye to, right under their noses.

Put it under their noses and they'll do exactly what they've done here.
 

teapot

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You are the one talking about blind eyes Teapot.

..... the hundreds commenting on fb/insta/tiktok will turn a blind eye to, right under their noses.

Put it under their noses and they'll do exactly what they've done here.

Well they do turn a blind eye. You really think members of the public immediately call out what they see at BD/BS/BE, wider shows, warm ups, wider disciplines etc? While watching and having a coffee? I'm not so sure.

It's all too easy to be outraged and disgusted when it's in your social media timeline/behind a screen...
 
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