I am BLAZING mad!

[palo1]

I am only teasing @palo1 I know it’s not as simple as all that!

I think your point on recognising our own selves is an interesting one. Understanding that, for you, that is not the same as your ‘self’ in work, would you accept that for some people it is?

For me, my ‘self’ in work is more my ‘self’ than I get to be in any other facet of my life. I get to explore things that genuinely fascinate me, and learn so much about the things that matter enormously to me on a very personal and even philosophical level. I am my happiest at work, and I don’t feel the need for a ‘self’ without it. Of course I do have a self without it, I’m as wife, a daughter, I have the farm and horses, I have neighbours and I love our little ecosystem of local farms and produce. But whilst I enjoy those things, I am not connected to them in the same way as I am with my work. It is hard to explain but I feel I am where I am meant to be when I’m working. It isn’t about career growth or earnings, it’s something very different. I would say it is what fulfills me.

That is interesting as I too feel incredibly 'myself' at work; it uses a wide range of my interests, abilities and emotions in a way that no other sphere of my life allows. I recognise the feeling of 'being where I am meant to be'. Yet philosophically, physically, emotionally and in other ways I also recognise and give equal value to life outside work; the input I have to my family is hopefully not just beneficial to me but also to them and it anchors me to views and experiences outside my own and my particular expertise etc. My work does not enable me to impact on other important spheres of experience that really matter to me. An absolutely vital aspect of life for me is around my animals and nature - work cannot fulfill those things and that is another area where I can achieve 'self actualisation' and where I feel absolutely most connected to my 'original' self. In order to do my own work (employment) as well as I can, I really do need have to have that roundness and completeness of 'life' - to be able to commit properly to the kind of work I do. Philosophically too I believe we all have a duty to contribute to a range of things as you do, but more importantly, for me, politically and philosophically I do NOT want to contribute to a world where labour/work is considered and becomes the most important part of our collective culture. To me that is an anathema and does not help us work towards a society where everyone is genuinely valued for the range of things they bring to humanity. That sounds 'fluffy' but it's not intended in that way. I just want to experience as much of life and contribute where I can in the short time I have as a human - it's a job to fit it all in lol. For the record I haven't EVER worked full time having made decisions early on, after a variety of very difficult experiences, about how life needed to be for me. It doesn't mean I haven't worked incredibly hard to achieve what I have done professionally, nor that I am not proud of my achievements. I genuinely think we have a duty to be more than work; for ourselves and for the world around us. That is my lens but I accept everyone has their own.

 

[teapot]

I am genuinely surprised at most people's replies on here.
I wouldn't expect time of for my pets being ill etc, it must be a nightmare for managers and puts so much more pressure on then to find cover and possibly to then find extra care for their own pets.

It's called good management in my book. No one should ever be so badly staffed (regardless of industry, assuming the caveat that you're not scraping the barrel because of cuts, unable to employ anyone etc) that in case of an emergency, the answer is an automatic no. One of my team needed the day off a few weeks ago because her partner's parent had died. I had about 5 minutes' notice. In return a week later, said employee offered to give up a day of their booked leave.

Management's literally about knowing the rules, knowing your employees, and working within those two confines, remaining as fair as possible at all times.

@View how on earth do people plan for leave two years in advance?!

 

[twiggy2]

It's called good management in my book. No one should ever be so badly staffed (regardless of industry, assuming the caveat that you're not scraping the barrel because of cuts, unable to employ anyone etc) that in case of an emergency, the answer is an automatic no. One of my team needed the day a few weeks ago because her partner's mother had died. I had about 5 minutes' notice. In return a week later, said employee offered to give up a day of her booked leave.

@View how on earth do people plan for leave two years in advance?!

I do get where your coming from and maybe I haven't worked under good management very often, as I was usually the one doing the overtime as other staff were grandparents and being called in to look after grandkids, that was despite having my own kids, horses dogs and being self employed alongside my part time job.

 

[nagblagger]

I would like to start of by apologising to all those that commented about 'that they would arrange routine appointments on their days off /annual leave', i was confused about why that had to said, in my world it is an expectation. I then had a 'light bulb' moment, most people work weekdays therefore it has to have far more planning, I always have days off during the week, (for 40 years!) due to shifts, therefore it has never been a problem, so sorry for my blinkered approach.

i might have appeared harsh in earlier posts, but as a manager i do (and have) let staff go for various emergencies at it would compromise patient care if I didn't, and follow up to check they are ok, however i will never compromise patient and staff safety, so in those situations, where it might not be so time critical, i try and explore with them other solutions. i do find there are 2 types of people, those that take the pee and use any excuse and those that I have had to physically route march out the department as they don't want to let their colleagues down. Most of the time the staff get paid leave or given annual leave so they do get looked after financially as well, I think we are fair to all.

I think the initial complaint was the managers lack of understanding and their blunt comment without gauging the OH's emotional state, a typical open mouth before engaging brain scenario.

Ironically I have just heard due to a staff emergency we will be short tonight, although we can go out to agencies, ask staff to do extra you can't pressure too much as then they will have stress burn-out.

 

[Clodagh]

I was a manager for many years, of both big and small teams. Sometimes I was horrible, with hindsight, but generally I hope I tried to work around peoples needs. My staff knew I had their backs. I always recognised that people’s home lives are important.
I also loved my jobs and had real pride in them.
Now I am ‘managed’ and my boss is great. I hoped this was standard practice, but it seems not.

 

[View]

@View how on earth do people plan for leave two years in advance?!

Many of our staff have family on other continents so knowing dates that far in advance allows them to book tickets at the cheapest prices. Additionally, every other year our staff can put their four weeks of leave together to allow for more time with their family.

Just because the block dates are known two years ahead doesn’t mean that the dates for each individual are rigid. People can swap with colleagues (so someone looking for a cheap two weeks in e.g. Majorca can swap their two weeks in August for two weeks in June with their colleague who has children in secondary school or a partner who is a teacher and must take their summer holiday during school holidays.

In our industry, barring schedule changes, staff can work out what their shifts are years in advance. That’s why people who book their eye test when they are meant to be at work are told to go and find a mutual exchange. Hospital, GP and dental appointments I accept are scarce and we will facilitate the time off by means of swapping rest days, shifts or using a lieu day.

The only people in this company who really can’t plan like this are me and my boss (note to self: check I’m not being too soft).

 

[wills_91]

Well, that escalated quickly.

The ability to leave your job & find something else quickly is entirely dependent on where you live & your line of work, skill set for other employment etc. I keep my ponies on my own, in a rural area where there are no freelance grooms. I have no family here other than my mum (who usually works full time but is currently ill) 3 kids & my partner works away. If my children become ill or my childminder then it's me & only me. Fortunately I work for the NHS who have very generous policies when it comes to child care & I don't take the P so don't feel guilty using them from time to time.

 

[MuddyMonster]

I'm do sorry your predicament OP. Hope everything is OK now

I'm definitely a 'work to live' person. I enjoy my job, I work hard, do my best but the progression I've had has been largely motivated for the financial stability. If I won the lottery I'd be out of there tomorrow so you can bet your bottom dollar if I needed to be there for a pony emergency, I would be.

My job is not urgent or life or death in anyway and if an emergency came up, I'd leave and expect it to be fine. We have flexi-time anyway so I don't need to use leave or ask or grace for things like day to day appointments so it's rare I'd need to drop everything & my management team would know that. I've soldiered on through many things in the past and am likely to in the future!

I can't think of a single person in our organisation that was so irreplaceable, they couldn't leave either but I might be wrong. I can think one or two that might like to think they are that important though (said in jest, honest)

It's a large part of why I've stayed as I could earn more elsewhere but the flexibility suits me. I'd be out the door if that flexibility wained or they questioned why I needed to be with a very poorly family member, two legged or four.

ETA: I got my live and work the wrong way around at first!

 

[SO1]

For me I am single and reliant on my salary to be able to support myself and my horse so I have always needed my jobs more than they have needed me. I have always been grateful for any job I have when there are so many people unemployed and living in poverty would love my job.

I completely understand the need for you to be there due to the colic and having been through that myself and having to deal with work too and it being quite awkward due to needing a lot more short notice leave over 2 weeks.

However I would not expect my boss to be able to know how serious colic is and be sympathetic without explanation. You don't just have a "sick" pony you have a pony with a condition that could be life threatening and that needs monitoring it is not just a cold or something serious but not life threatening. Every time Homey coliced I explained to my boss how serious it was and that it might be my last chance to see him.

A lot of these situations are about poor communication. I apologised profusely to my boss for having to take emergency AL after I had been up walking Homey throughout the night and then having to wait at the yard for the vet to come back in the morning to check on him. My yard do deal with all vet emergencies but this was serious enough they wanted to be on the yard that day. I don't expect her to know how serious colic is without explaining the situation.

However what I did do to reassure her that this was not going to be a regular occurrence as he would either get better following treatment as we were doing investigations to find out what was going on and what was causing these colics or he would have to be PTS if it was something which could not be treated, cured or managed, it was not going to be like this every week from now on for years on end. I had a lot more requests than you did to take AL. It was 1 day plus 2 half day one week then 3 half days the second week. At that time I did have over 15 days AL remaining so it could easily be taken as AL. In the end he did have an underlying health problem and had to be PTS 6 weeks following the really bad colic.

I am going to get another horse but I am going to sit down with my boss and explain the situation so we can come to an agreement. I will be reassuring her that it will only be in situations that are life threatening that I may need to take emergency leave as all other appointments will be dealt with by the yard. I will explain to her that the health condition that Homey had was very rare and I may never have to rush off to the yard again. I have put everything I can in place to ensure that owning a horse has the minimum impact it possibly can on work and that as I have no children I will probably be more reliable than people that do.

For a while I did actually think about not getting another as I was thinking it might not be compatible with working at any workplace. My workplace and colleagues should not have to be inconvienced by my lifestyle choice and that is even with me being on part livery and having the option to include exercise so the only time I would have really have to go is in life threatening situations so I would still be able to work late and travel for business including weekends.

My colleagues know I am looking for a new horse and all ask how the search is going.

I think when you do have the meeting I would be apologising for the inconvenience caused. I would also be explaining that this is not going to be a regular occurance as this was a life threatening situation. Horses are not like children where parents often have to stay at home if they have chicken pox or a virus and cannot go to school and most other ailments that a horse might get are different from colic and don't require monitoring in the same way.

I do understand why your boss might be surprised that you have no back up horse care if you are single as suppose you had an emergency health condition that meant you had to be in hospital. One of my friends was telling me today how his friends girlfriend got kicked in the chest by one her horses and she had her spleen split open, and damaged her kidney and was in hospital for quite some time. It is not just about if your horses get sick what about if something happens to you.

I think also in your situation where perhaps you are reliant on a job in order to keep your horses you probably want to try and smooth things out with your employer until you can find another job. I would try and avoid getting angry with your boss.

For further clarification, I keep my three retired and ethically unrehomable horses near my home on rented grazing which is the only way I can afford to keep them so don't have the back up of a livery yard et al.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Some of the replies on this thread are disturbing to say the least, I can only hope that those people did not go on to have children never mind animals… god help them if they ever took ill.

So … your about to leave for work and your dog has a fit on the floor…. Do you… just walk out and do your shift then sort it when you get home?

Unreal!!!

 

[AmyMay]

So … your about to leave for work and your dog has a fit on the floor…. Do you… just walk out and do your shift then sort it when you get home?

Unreal!!!

I don’t think any poster has implied that.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

Some of the replies on this thread are disturbing to say the least, I can only hope that those people did not go on to have children never mind animals… god help them if they ever took ill.

So … your about to leave for work and your dog has a fit on the floor…. Do you… just walk out and do your shift then sort it when you get home?

Unreal!!!

No one is saying that emergency care shouldn’t be provided to animals. The question was, if you are at work and leave suddenly to deal with a horse emergency, does your employer have a right to be upset about it.

No one is leaving any animal in any state, and no one has said that anywhere.

I personally don’t have dogs at home at the moment since ours has been with my mother since she moved out of our house after my father died. I won’t get another unless my work life changes drastically and would allow for it.

And I don’t have children for many reasons but my career is one of them.

 

[Gallop_Away]

But people have said they don't believe people should expect time off to care for an ill pet. Yes in an ideal world people would have cover but as has been pointed out, that isn't always possible or appropriate. So again, what are those people meant to do?

With small animals it is even more difficult in some ways as they need to be physically taken to a vet in most cases, whereas with horses the vet comes to them. My mother doesn't drive and my MIL and FIL both work. So if one of my cats are taken ill, then it's down to me or my husband to take them to the vet.

I stand by my earlier comment that pets are no less of a commitment than children and to many they mean just as much to us. It's time employers started recognising this.

Much emphasis has been put on work/life balance in the last few years and it's about time employers understood that pets are a very important part of their employees lives.

Reading some of the replies I am very thankful I work for a company who understands how important my animals are to me and don't treat me needing time off in an emergency any different to that of my colleagues who have children.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

But people have said they don't believe people should expect time off to care for an ill pet. Yes in an ideal world people would have cover but as has been pointed out, that isn't always possible or appropriate. So again, what are those people meant to do?

With small animals it is even more difficult in some ways as they need to be physically taken to a vet in most cases, whereas with horses the vet comes to them. My mother doesn't drive and my MIL and FIL both work. So if one of my cats are taken ill, then it's down to me or my husband to take them to the vet.

I stand by my earlier comment that pets are no less of a commitment than children and to many they mean just as much to us. It's time employers started recognising this.

Much emphasis has been put on work/life balance in the last few years and it's about time employers understood that pets are a very important part of their employees lives.

Reading some of the replies I am very thankful I work for a company who understands how important my animals are to me and don't treat me needing time off in an emergency any different to that of my colleagues who have children.

No, people are saying that if one takes time off to care for a sick pet that it should be taken as annual leave and, where possible, arranged in advance. And that if one were to walk out to handle a pet emergency when you’re needed at work, that the company/ manager / rest of the team picking up the slack have the right to be unhappy about that. They may not stop someone doing it, but they are left in the lurch when they depended on someone and they don’t need to be happy about that.

If one has the sort of job where you can’t just up and leave or the consequence of you doing so isn’t something you find acceptable (like me) then back up to look after animals is necessary, or one simply couldn’t have them.

 

[EarsofaSnowman]

Some of the replies on this thread are disturbing to say the least, I can only hope that those people did not go on to have children never mind animals… god help them if they ever took ill.

So … your about to leave for work and your dog has a fit on the floor…. Do you… just walk out and do your shift then sort it when you get home?

Unreal!!!

I don't read that in any of the posts. What I do read is that some people consider whether they have, and how to put, the appropriate support in place before committing to having children and animals, rather than going ahead regardless, on the assumption that everyone else has to accommodate them.

My recent experience is of managing a single parent who had a chaotic home life at some times but wouldn't take responsibility for addressing the issues despite extensive support offered, and instead frequently took emergency absence for things they knew were going to happen in advance. As their manager I accommodated this above and beyond over a two year period, but quite frankly they took the p, and it takes a lot of time and effort to manage, whilst also covering their business critical tasks.

Flexibility in the workplace is a great thing, but there is an ever increasing population for whom flexibility only works one way.

 

[Gallop_Away]

No, people are saying that if one takes time off to care for a sick pet that it should be taken as annual leave and, where possible, arranged in advance. And that if one were to walk out to handle a pet emergency when you’re needed at work, that the company/ manager / rest of the team picking up the slack have the right to be unhappy about that.

If one has the sort of job where you can’t just up and leave or the consequence of you doing so isn’t something you find acceptable (like me) then back up to look after animals is necessary, or one simply couldn’t have them.

As much as I would love my horses to give me some notice prior to injuring themselves, sadly they don't give me the courtesy.

It has been stated in this thread that people should not expect time off to care for a sick pet, and as you say those left to cover have the right to be upset if someone does need to leave in an emergency. I completely disagree as if you change the word pet to child or elderly relative, it would be viewed very differently.

You can argue all you like that those with children are protected by law, whilst pets are not, however I think it is quite clear from this thread that those laws are very outdated and unfair. It is time employers recognised the importance of pets in their employees lives, otherwise they may find decent employees chose to leave to work for more understanding, forward thinking employers, who value a work/life balance.

 

[Clodagh]

As much as I would love my horses to give me some notice prior to injuring themselves, sadly they don't give me the courtesy.

It has been stated in this thread that people should not expect time off to care for a sick pet, and as you say those left to cover have the right to be upset if someone does need to leave in an emergency. I completely disagree as if you change the word pet to child or elderly relative, it would be viewed very differently.

You can argue all you like that those with children are protected by law, whilst pets are not, however I think it is quite clear from this thread that those laws are very outdated and unfair. It is time employers recognised the importance of pets in their employees lives, otherwise they may find decent employees chose to leave to work for more understanding, forward thinking employers, who value a work/life balance.

It isn’t just the law, or shouldn’t be nowadays. It should be a work life balance that people pull together to help each other. There will always be a small minority who take the mick, and they will get peoples backs up but with my optimistic outlook I think they ARE the minority.

 

[Clodagh]

No, people are saying that if one takes time off to care for a sick pet that it should be taken as annual leave and, where possible, arranged in advance. And that if one were to walk out to handle a pet emergency when you’re needed at work, that the company/ manager / rest of the team picking up the slack have the right to be unhappy about that. They may not stop someone doing it, but they are left in the lurch when they depended on someone and they don’t need to be happy about that.

If one has the sort of job where you can’t just up and leave or the consequence of you doing so isn’t something you find acceptable (like me) then back up to look after animals is necessary, or one simply couldn’t have them.

Would you be unhappy if BB was a team member and rang you to say she’d be late as her dog was fitting? Unless you have full time servants it is unlikely that most of us would have someone immediately to hand. And I wouldn’t leave my dog with someone else if they were distressed and possibly dying.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

It is time employers recognised the importance of pets in their employees lives, otherwise they may find decent employees chose to leave to work for more understanding, forward thinking employers, who value a work/life balance.

I am beginning to understand why the NHS lose so many staff

 

[LadyGascoyne]

As much as I would love my horses to give me some notice prior to injuring themselves, sadly they don't give me the courtesy.

It has been stated in this thread that people should not expect time off to care for a sick pet, and as you say those left to cover have the right to be upset if someone does need to leave in an emergency. I completely disagree as if you change the word pet to child or elderly relative, it would be viewed very differently.

You can argue all you like that those with children are protected by law, whilst pets are not, however I think it is quite clear from this thread that those laws are very outdated and unfair. It is time employers recognised the importance of pets in their employees lives, otherwise they may find decent employees chose to leave to work for more understanding, forward thinking employers, who value a work/life balance.

The thing is, I base my assessment of the difference between an animal in distress or a child in distress not on the depth of my feelings for them but their feelings for me.

I accept that part of being lucky enough to have a career with a company like mine will mean sacrifice on my part, and that will sometimes means being at work when I wish I could be at the yard.

The horse isn’t going to think “where is LG”. The child is going to want their mother if they are distressed.

The additional accommodation I make for my staff with child emergencies is so that there isn’t a child in distress without its parent.

 

[Gallop_Away]

It isn’t just the law, or shouldn’t be nowadays. It should be a work life balance that people pull together to help each other. There will always be a small minority who take the mick, and they will get peoples backs up but with my optimistic outlook I think they ARE the minority.

Hear hear!! As a team I think we show each other a great deal of support and step up when needed. If people need to leave in an emergency, regardless of what that may be, we pull together.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

Would you be unhappy if BB was a team member and rang you to say she’d be late as her dog was fitting? Unless you have full time servants it is unlikely that most of us would have someone immediately to hand. And I wouldn’t leave my dog with someone else if they were distressed and possibly dying.

If BB was working a normal day where there wasn’t anything critical, then no I wouldn’t be upset.

If BB not being there resulted in harm or loss for patients/ other staff / the company, then that is their decision but I don’t see that the employer needs to be happy about it.

 

[MuddyMonster]

I think there is a key difference between emergency and on-going care.

I would absolutely not begrudge covering for a colleague in a geniune emergency (for four legged or two legged dependents) and the aftermath of that. As life happens to everyone. In fact, I'd be pushing them out the door to go sort it out (hypothetically, I WFH largely) telling them to just call if they needed anything.

I'd begin to begrudge it if months later there still wasn't cover in place for on-going stuff (for four legged or two legged dependents) if that started to affect my and other people's ability to use annual leave or flexi-time because of having to provide cover.

I think the majority of people would probably be the same.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

I am beginning to understand why the NHS lose so many staff

Consider it from a patient perspective. If you’ve been waiting for surgery for goodness knows how long, and the surgeon cancelled because their Guinea Pig had a veterinary emergency, is it reasonable that no one should be upset about it?

 

[Gallop_Away]

The thing is, I base my assessment of the difference between an animal in distress or a child in distress not on the depth of my feelings for them but their feelings for me.

I accept that part of being lucky enough to have a career with a company like mine will mean sacrifice on my part, and that will sometimes means being at work when I wish I could be at the yard.

The horse isn’t going to think “where is LG”. The child is going to want their mother if they are distressed.

The additional accommodation I make for my staff with child emergencies is so that there isn’t a child in distress without its parent.

Perhaps a horse wouldn't, but I think a sick dog would certainly appreciate their owner with them.
Our late terrier would become extremely distressed at the vets if myself or my husband went out of sight. We were her family.
You appear to have very black and white, and with respect, rather outdated views on this subject LG. I hope you don't apply your own strict standards to your staff.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

Perhaps a horse wouldn't, but I think a sick dog would certainly appreciate their owner with them.
Our late terrier would become extremely distressed at the vets if myself or my husband went out of sight. We were her family.
You appear to have very black and white, and with respect, rather outdated views on this subject LG. I hope you don't apply your own strict standards to your staff.

I have already said that my standards are for myself, GA.

I don’t put myself in that position because it doesn’t work for me to walk out of work at the drop of a hat.

It may be outdated but it’s my personal standard, and it works for me. As much as I sometimes wish I could have a puppy.

Interestingly, pet emergencies don’t come up at work bar the earthworm/ broken heating issue but that person could easily work from home so did. Family (parent, spouse and child) emergencies do happen relatively often.

 

[Hallo2012]

some of the replies on this thread are 1.ghastly and 2.make me even more grateful to my amazing boss who would NEVER hesitate to tell me to go home, and either take the time and sort it later or WFH to look after a sick animal and also regularly lets me take a long lunch break April-August to cover mares over lunch!!!!

Time is always worked back but theres no checking and calculating the minutes-they trust and respect me and i trust and respect them

 

[criso]

I mentioned before about one horse not eating in hospital and others have calmed and settled once they've seen me. In a strange noisy environment, a familiar face goes a long way.

The one where I left early and got snide remarks was vets wanting a case discussion involving the horse being present and diagnostic images to discuss. Horse had gone in sat am as an emergency so Monday was when the head consultant was there. I went in early and worked through lunch then left 2 hours early. No one picking up the slack except me. There were no client meetings or site visits cancelled.

Presumably if someone had broken heating , it needed fixing so the person would have needed time off for that regardless of earthworms. If someone had a tank of tropical fish who will die if s power issue isn't fixed instantly, then I would consider that an emergency. Fish may not be a higher life form but you can't just leave them to die.

When I had burst or broken pipes, I was in a different role where I did need to be present but I had to call in and say I wasn't coming in as I'm single so have to deal with these emergencies myself.

 

[Clodagh]

If BB was working a normal day where there wasn’t anything critical, then no I wouldn’t be upset.

If BB not being there resulted in harm or loss for patients/ other staff / the company, then that is their decision but I don’t see that the employer needs to be happy about it.

See I can’t understand that. So you are saying that BB would be in trouble if she didn’t leave her possibly dying dog?

 

[LadyGascoyne]

See I can’t understand that. So you are saying that BB would be in trouble if she didn’t leave her possibly dying dog?

Me being unhappy doesn’t automatically make the other person “in trouble”.

If it was a one off, I’d leave it. If it was something where there would likely be repeat events then I’d suggest that the person takes planned time off or has back up in place.

Of course, we might have to hire in back up, or others in the team might have to do overtime. And I’d have to pick it up if it was a job I can do.

I just, personally, don’t expect that from others when it comes to my pets. Hence the back up plans.