If I were to consider breeding a foal

[TheMule]

I don't know a thing about breeding, but does breeding a mare to a stallion who 'corrects' her conformational faults actually give you a foal that's an improvement on the mare? I've read that before, but my rough comprehension of genetics and inheritence suggests that it's a total crapshoot. Like if I'd wanted to breed my very long-backed, loose-coupled mare, I would have chosen a short-coupled stallion with a strong back. As I understand it, my foal might inherit his dam's long back. He might inherit his sire's short back. He might end up somewhere in between. Who knows? It's not a guaranteed way to get a horse that improves my horse's conformational shortcomings. Obviously you want to hedge your bets and not breed something that has the same or similar faults as your mare, but you might get them anyway.

Is that correct?

Absolutely- breeding is a genetic lottery so you might choose a stallion that has strengths in areas of your mares weaknesses and get lucky with improving them, or not. You have to be willing to get the same as the mare but improve your odds as much as you can by choosing a stallion with a strong genetic history of producing the types you want- himself through his progeny and/or through his own sire and dam.
For example, I chose a couple of typey stallions for my long backed mare who had a short, awkward neck but was a great athlete with a huge heart. Her first foal mostly had the same weaknesses as her so I chose even more carefully the second time and her second foal has taken a lot from his sire and is strong where his mother was weak- the stallion has improved on her in every way.
It's not enough just to pick a stallion you like the look of if you need to improve, it needs to really stamp its offspring with the qualities you need.

BTW, when I asked this forum many years ago what stallion to use on my mare most people who commented were horrified I would breed from her. There's no way on this planet I could have got anything more perfect for me than my 5yr old, but I've also had the heartbreak of losing her first foal.

 

[TheMule]

Photo illustration of my point

 

[Caol Ila]

Is the chestnut the son? He's a stunning horse.

I occasionally search Facebook for Caso's sire. I saw him as an awkward two-year old (obviously unaware that he'd been a naughty boy), but I would love to know what sort of horse he's maturing into. Might never know.

 

[TheMule]

Is the chestnut the son? He's a stunning horse.

I occasionally search Facebook for Caso's sire. I saw him as an awkward two-year old (obviously unaware that he'd been a naughty boy), but I would love to know what sort of horse he's maturing into. Might never know.

Thank you- I think he is a real upgrade on his dam and she was a super horse for me so ?

2yr olds are notoriously gawky looking, I wouldn’t judge him too harshly ?

 

[Caol Ila]

That's why I'd love to see him now. He had terrible sweet-itch, but he seemed like a nice lad. The lassies clearly thought so.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

If you have access to your mare's dam, and want to preserve the line, why don't you breed a foal out of the mare? If the sire is still active you could even breed a full sibling?

We could if we bought her but unfortunately the sire is now gelded. We’d probably have her on loan / to graze but may not be able to buy her. I’m not sure she’d be sold.

I don't know a thing about breeding, but does breeding a mare to a stallion who 'corrects' her conformational faults actually give you a foal that's an improvement on the mare? I've read that before, but my rough comprehension of genetics and inheritence suggests that it's a total crapshoot. Like if I'd wanted to breed my very long-backed, loose-coupled mare, I would have chosen a short-coupled stallion with a strong back. As I understand it, my foal might inherit his dam's long back. He might inherit his sire's short back. He might end up somewhere in between. Who knows? It's not a guaranteed way to get a horse that improves my horse's conformational shortcomings. Obviously you want to hedge your bets and not breed something that has the same or similar faults as your mare, but you might get them anyway.

Is that correct?

Yes suspect it’s a lottery as @TheMule says but I might improve the odds of having a slightly less shortcoupled horse if the sire the sire was longer.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

if you like the real riding type arabs, take a look at the polish arab, the late great comet, but he is grey, if you can get that blood into your foal even though several generations ago, he could still be an influencing factor, and if mim had a filly who knows one day you may want to breed on further

see what you think of comet

Absolutely breathtaking!

 

[LadyGascoyne]

Photo illustration of my point

View attachment 90198

View attachment 90199

They are both lovely but wow that chestnut is beautiful

 

[LadyGascoyne]

Absolutely- breeding is a genetic lottery so you might choose a stallion that has strengths in areas of your mares weaknesses and get lucky with improving them, or not. You have to be willing to get the same as the mare but improve your odds as much as you can by choosing a stallion with a strong genetic history of producing the types you want- himself through his progeny and/or through his own sire and dam.
For example, I chose a couple of typey stallions for my long backed mare who had a short, awkward neck but was a great athlete with a huge heart. Her first foal mostly had the same weaknesses as her so I chose even more carefully the second time and her second foal has taken a lot from his sire and is strong where his mother was weak- the stallion has improved on her in every way.
It's not enough just to pick a stallion you like the look of if you need to improve, it needs to really stamp its offspring with the qualities you need.

BTW, when I asked this forum many years ago what stallion to use on my mare most people who commented were horrified I would breed from her. There's no way on this planet I could have got anything more perfect for me than my 5yr old, but I've also had the heartbreak of losing her first foal.

This is exactly what I’m hoping to find. The right horse to compliment her and give us the best chance of improving weaknesses.

 

[AmyMay]

This is exactly what I’m hoping to find. The right horse to compliment her and give us the best chance of improving weaknesses.

In that case I’d strongly suggest an Arab, especially as further up you say you’re not wanting to breed a riding horse. I think the coloured would produce a very odd looking horse with your mare.

 

[SilverLinings]

I've got a bit of a seahorseView attachment 90056

Sorry PvB, I feel like I've offended quite a few Arab owners on this thread- in mitigation I like all horses (they are horses so how could I not!), just prefer a certain look when I am buying. Am equally not drawn to heavy types (I don't have the hip abduction to ride them), but can appreciate what others see in them. I have possibly now offended even more owners, so will get my coat...!

I realise I can be a bit blunt, so hope I haven't actually offended anyone on this thread.

 

[SilverLinings]

LG, I know you say you couldn't buy Mim's dam, but could you loan/rent her as a surrogate, with you choosing the stallion?

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Sorry PvB, I feel like I've offended quite a few Arab owners on this thread- in mitigation I like all horses (they are horses so how could I not!), just prefer a certain look when I am buying. Am equally not drawn to heavy types (I don't have the hip abduction to ride them), but can appreciate what others see in them. I have possibly now offended even more owners, so will get my coat...!

I realise I can be a bit blunt, so hope I haven't actually offended anyone on this thread.

I don't think you have. Well you certainly haven't offended me. It can be an excuse to show a photo of our horses.

 

[NinjaPony]

This has probably been suggested already but if you are interested in an Anglo Arab, why not breed your own? You could pick a light elegant TB sire which might tick some of your 'wants', like length of neck/back, longer stride etc? I could see that complementing her nicely.

 

[Cloball]

https://mistrals-stud.weebly.com/stallions.html
Slightly rogue suggestion ?

 

[LadyGascoyne]

In that case I’d strongly suggest an Arab, especially as further up you say you’re not wanting to breed a riding horse. I think the coloured would produce a very odd looking horse with your mare.

I’m leaning that way too. If I’m light enough to ride the horse then that’s great. I’m just 5’8 and 68-70kg at the moment although I used to weigh 57-63kg for many years. It is on me to get back to a reasonable weight to ride a small horse but if it could be a little taller - even 1 or 2 inches- I’d be thrilled.

LG, I know you say you couldn't buy Mim's dam, but could you loan/rent her as a surrogate, with you choosing the stallion?

I might well be able to do that but the lovely mare that we have here is already destined to be a surrogate (owner has her reasons) and Mim’s mum is producing her own fabulous foals. This year’s is absolutely gorgeous.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

https://mistrals-stud.weebly.com/stallions.html
Slightly rogue suggestion ?

Oooooooohhhh, very rogue. Gorgeous though!

 

[stangs]

Have you looked at any Teke stallions? As a breed, they tick several of your boxes.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

Have you looked at any Teke stallions? As a breed, they tick several of your boxes.

I searched for some but there are very few that are not double dilute in the Uk. Unless maybe I’m searching badly?

 

[LadyGascoyne]

This has probably been suggested already but if you are interested in an Anglo Arab, why not breed your own? You could pick a light elegant TB sire which might tick some of your 'wants', like length of neck/back, longer stride etc? I could see that complementing her nicely.

Definitely a possibility! Nice smart large hack type Thoroughbred could be lovely.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

I don't think you have. Well you certainly haven't offended me. It can be an excuse to show a photo of our horses.

I think araby-horse owning people generally don’t take too much offense. Mim does get called a llama a lot ?

 

[Cortez]

If you are considering an Akhal Teke you might want to talk to a couple of trainers with experience of the breed before committing. They're not the easiest....

 

[LadyGascoyne]

If you are considering an Akhal Teke you might want to talk to a couple of trainers with experience of the breed before committing. They're not the easiest....

I have heard they can be very hot! With Mim’s cleverness it could be a very tricky combination.

 

[stangs]

I searched for some but there are very few that are not double dilute in the Uk. Unless maybe I’m searching badly?

There's very few in the UK to begin with tbf. Off the top of my head, most of them are single dilutes though, with a minority having no dilution. But the double dilutes are the most popular for obvious reasons. I'll try find you the black Teke I used to be smitten with, though he might be a little hot for your needs.

 

[Cortez]

Hotter than a hot thing most of them, in my experience (which is limited to a couple of half-breds and one purebred stallion).

 

[LadyGascoyne]

Hotter than a hot thing most of them, in my experience (which is limited to a couple of half-breds and one purebred stallion).

I think that rules it out then. Midget hot thing with Mimosa’s reasoning skills would be something terrifying to behold.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Sorry PvB, I feel like I've offended quite a few Arab owners on this thread- in mitigation I like all horses (they are horses so how could I not!), just prefer a certain look when I am buying. Am equally not drawn to heavy types (I don't have the hip abduction to ride them), but can appreciate what others see in them. I have possibly now offended even more owners, so will get my coat...!

I realise I can be a bit blunt, so hope I haven't actually offended anyone on this thread.

Honestly you haven't offended me at all his not even classed as an extreme sea horse now compared to what they breed for the ring.

He has won many classic head classes years ago his quite dished but his got a very wide short head which I like, some modern ones have a weird bump on the forehead and they are far too dished even for my taste ?

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Both of my Arab's have Balaton as a grand sire I absolutely love him but his not around anymore I don't know if there is any frozen, I would definitely love to breed a foal from him another one I like is Kubinec both were very popular sires a long time ago.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Rusleem was lovely as well and Plumbum both lovely stallions both went to HOYS I think.

 

[HashRouge]

Marcus Aurelius's owners seem to have a rather smart young stallion called Audace Encore (by Marcus Aurelius) who is getting out and about doing some low level dressage at the moment. I wonder how tall he is? I think Phoenix Arabians have also got a rather nice chestnut ridden stallion, called Alonzo, and I think he is 15.3hh so definitely has the height!