Insurance or Credit Card?

[tobiano1984]

I've been looking at my finances recently, and insurance for horses, car, dog etc seems to be a major outgoing! I'm wondering if many people skip horse insurance and rely on savings or a credit card? I've been trying to find a reason to keep insurance and struggling.
I'm trying to think of scenarios that would cause a problem - if either of them did a tendon/soft tissue injury, I'd probably pay to have it diagnosed (i.e. ultrasound) and then turf them out to rest. If one of them cut themselves badly, I'd pay to have it stitched up. If they broke a leg or needed colic surgery I'd have them PTS, I wouldn't want to put them through anything like that. I wouldn't go for KS surgery or similar, and neither are at any risk of that.
So I'm thinking, if I reduce to just liability insurance, and then have a credit card on standby (also good for my credit rating I believe) - I would be covered for all eventualities? A few £100 bills here and there aren't a problem, and the CC would be there for any major needs I haven't forseen.

Thoughts/experiences?

 

[Roxylola]

I'd have a credit card/savings. That way you can choose what you pay for and how you treat things. If you chose pts when your vet advised surgery for colic insurance may well not pay at all.
Regarding your credit rating, I think youd have to use the card regularly and pay off - so if you say paid for fuel on it and cleared it monthly that would be good for your credit rating. Just having one doesnt make any difference

 

[scruffyponies]

Depends: if you are a watch it carefully / conservative management type for most things, then credit card all the way.

If you like every little thing investigated with all the tests and treatments available, then keep your insurance.

 

[AandK]

In your case OP, I would reduce insurance to third party and have the CC as a backup if needed. The big bills come from expensive diagnostics or surgery, so if you are not going to do those then not worth having the insurance.

My 23yo is no longer insured, the only big bill he has had since (he's had a few little ones!) that insurance would have been useful for was when he had an eye removed 2.5yrs ago, it was about £2.5k. He would not be put through any further surgery (eye was standing sedation, but he had a GA for annular lig op in 2015 and had a seizure coming round)
My 7yo is insured, thankfully as he had an injury last year and had an arthroscopy under GA, which would have come in at about £4k but he then had a bad impaction as a result of the GA and so another £3k of vet fees for colic. Insurance covered up to £5k so I only had to find the remaining £2k, which was bad enough!

 

[Squeak]

You could go for a middle ground and go for catastrophe cover or death cover etc.

WHW do third party, public liability and external wounds up to I think it was a value of £1500 a year for any horse owned or loaned by you for £120 a year and the excess wasn't crazy either.

 

[BallyRoanBaubles]

I just have liability insurance, but I also pay £75 a year through harry hall one club for external injuries only insurance

 

[dorsetladette]

I do a bit of both. As you I wouldn't put either of my boys through major surgery. I also wouldn't put the younger one through lengthy box rest and rehab as he wouldn't deal with it and the older one I would have to make a judgement call if the scenario arose.
I have them covered for liability through Harry Hall and I have £3k vet bill, LOU and tack covered by insurance. This cost £18 a month each. Which I think is reasonable. I've decided to insure now after a long period of not insuring because of my older lads age at 17 if I don't have him insured I won't have the option at a later date to have him covered for everything. The company he is with will cover him for all vet issues until 20 if I stay with them.
I also have a credit card on stand by for just in cases, be it car or horse. Last winter I put 2 months worth of hay on it and then cleared it asap.

I don't feel my savings pot would increase quickly enough to be worth putting my pemiums in a savings account and using that as my safety net. If on the other hand I was paying £80-£100 a month per horse it would be an entirely different story.

Just to add in the period when I didn't insure I had a lump sum in a savings account, once the kids both had cars bought and insured that lump sum was depleted hence the looking into insurance again.

 

[tobiano1984]

Thanks!

Roxylola - good point re, CC and good idea paying for fuel on it

I'm definitely a conservative management type, I'd just want the financial back up there so the choice is always available and not dictated by finances.

 

[Annagain]

I insured 2 - my boy Archie and my share horse Monty (I would never have forgiven myself if I'd broken him and couldn't sort it out) and after a couple of relatively minor claims (3 figures) on each, there were so many exclusions I just didn't think it was worth it any more. I cancelled the policy and started paying the same amount each month into a savings account.

I set myself some rules - that I would only dip in if I would have made a claim (so jabs and minor stuff I just paid from my normal account) and that I would tell my vet that he didn't need to exclude an option due to expense.

I didn't have cause to touch it for about 5 years, by which point it had built up to a nice sum. Then Monty (I was the only one riding him at the time) was intermittently lame and we just couldn't get to the bottom of it. Vet suggested a bone scan and I knew I had the money to pay for it which was so comforting. The scan and subsequent treatment for the issue it found came to about £2k. Although I had the money, I spotted a good deal on a credit card, doing 0% on purchases for 2 years so went for that. I paid it off at about £80 a month, never noticed it leaving my account and still paid into my insurance fund (just paid a bit less). Now both boys are 24, I have my new boy Charlie, Archie is retired and I no longer share Monty although continue to help care for him - we split the care for all 3 between 3 of us. That insurance fund allowed me to up my budget for Charlie when horse prices went mad earlier this year and it still has plenty left in it for emergencies. I've insured Charlie for death only at the moment as he was expensive and I wouldn't have that sort of budget to replace (I hate that word but you know what I mean) him in the first year or so.

I would do a combination of setting up a dedicated account and using a credit card IF you have a decent credit rating so will get accepted for a 0% on purchases deal quickly. If you're likely to be paying a lot of interest I'd plough more into savings to try to avoid that situation.

ETA - while using a credit card to buy regular items and paying it off every month is good for your credit rating, not to mention cashback/ loyalty points/ air miles (I've done this since I was 18 - just set up a direct debit to pay off the full amount each month and only buy essentials on it), the best deals on 0% for purchases are given to new customers so it's worth finding a deal on a new credit card when you need it, not putting anything else on there and cancelling it as soon as the debt is paid so you free up the amount of credit you can be given for the next time.

 

[CrimsonDivine]

To be honest, when it comes to insurance I'd say it depends on individual needs, particually where finances stand. For someone who is able to put away at least £50-£100 per month in savings then I'd personally say not really needed, OR consider getting insurence for the first few months until you've saved enough to cover a decent ammount, ie maybe £1,000 - £2,000 which may take upto a year or so in these cases. However, if you are finding you are unable to put this amount away then obviously insurance may be for you. The pros about insurance is that you can gain access to to a substantial amount of money within a reasonable time lapse, or at least one would hope.. Though this can also be done via credit card but I often find the limit in credit cards and the fact that you need to pay back with APR interest is alot worse than insurance limits and excess fees which is the other dillema of insurance, normally £75 minimal is quoted but more realistic it's £150+ which then you'd weigh up the difference between claiming and paying yourself. Of course insurance is only most beneifical IF the cost of vets for example is more than 100% of the excess fee otherwise it's just not worth claiming on let alone maybe paying for. However, another pro with credit card is you don't pay back until you borrow money and some credit cards will give you 6 months to a year to pay back. However another dillema with credit cards is that if you even get refused it will affect your credit score. I have over 975/1000 credit score as it stands and I lost 15 points when I applied to Tescos credit card as for whatever reason they turned me down even though I was told I was in high chances of getting one when I applied, so be warned with that. Hope all this gives you some insight, I too have considered this and I'm still looking for the right insurer myself.

 

[Pippity]

I went for savings/credit card, and I'm regretting it. If I get another one after Blue, I'll definitely insure for at least the first year of ownership.

 

[SEL]

I'm on the fence a bit and think it depends on how much ££ you have available if something does go wrong - even non serious stuff can run up big bills quickly. Just my personal examples of how I've kept the vet in posh holidays...

Horse #1 - tested positive for strangles antibodies (not a surprise the yard had a case). Guttural pouch flush found no strangles and therefore insurance didn't pay. Not hugely expensive at that point but she had a reaction to the antibiotics and needed 2 x out of hours call outs and steroid injections. That then upset her stomach and a month of ulcer drugs results - stomach was already excluded. All in £1500. This horse has managed to come up with weird and expensive ways to spend my money and will pretty much be uninsurable from her renewal so I have a £2k saving pot for her.

Horse #2 - new to me and has just been diagnosed a severe pollen allergy. I think my bill is going to hit about £1000 right now but fortunately she is insured so I'm hoping a lot of that will be picked up as will any costs we hit going into next Spring. I nearly didn't insure her but the lady who gave her to me had just gone through a family death and I thought if I didn't then she'd probably end up having colic and didn't want more grief for the family!!

Horse #3 is very old and very arthritic and not insured. I have £1k for nasty cuts etc but realistically anything more serious will be calling time.

Friend's horse - peritonitis. Didn't need surgery, but was at the vet for 4 days on a lot of drugs. £3k bill and thankfully insured for most of it.

 

[EmmaC78]

I don't have insurance and have just paid a fairly large vet bill out of savings. It is going to cost about £3000 in total but if I were to go back I would still make the same decision not to insure. I have had the horse for 6 years and think over that time I probably would have paid about that in premiums. He is now getting chucked out in the field for a few months to hopefully recover after the £3000 in tests were pretty inconclusive!

 

[criso]

Just a few scenarios that can get expensive even with conservative treatment

My horse recently banged his eye. Rushed to hospital for a few days for treatment. Don't have the bill yet but their estimate was £1500 - £4000. No complications and he came home yesterday so maybe at the lower end

Cut that required stitches, several courses of antibiotics, x rays and follow up visits about £1000

Raised liver enzymes. No expensive treatment but regular testing with callouts and lab fees about £150 each times soon pushed the bill over £1000

These days I have catastrophe cover so the first 2 scenarios would be covered.

 

[milliepops]

it's the grumbling unclear things that can rack up expensive diagnostics that I'd struggle to cover without insurance. if MRI is indicated to get to the bottom of something, for instance then I like to know it's probably going to be paid for without an issue.
The bonus is that by having it available I also have ££££ available for surgery or other things I would like to have the option for.

I only insure the ones I would move mountains to fix. the others take their chances

 

[w1bbler]

I've only ever insured for the first year, which has worked well twice now,
Bills can rack up quickly. Current horse was a bit unhappy & slightly short striding.
We are now over the £5k mark with diagnosis / treatment so far, scoping for & treating ulcers, injections for kissing spines & multiple hoof x-rays for npa. Luckily it started just before her first year with me & with treatment started I did renew.

 

[IrishMilo]

I went for savings/credit card, and I'm regretting it

Same here. I always thought insurance was pointless until I got a horse who just can't keep himself out of trouble. I've spent a fortune in the last two years on vets/physio. Like you I thought 'The odd bill here and there is fine'. Couple of recents...

Bite to the neck. £350.

Self-inflicted kick to the leg (about a month after bite to neck): £800ish (Xmas call out, antibiotics, weekly sedation for 5 weeks to change dressing as wouldn't let me near it).

'Injury' three: diagnostics for loss of performance - currently at about £2050

Omeprazole - £100

Haven't even started treatment yet.

For the sake of 40 odd quid a month, I'd say it's worth it...

 

[Wheels]

For the sake of 40 odd quid a month, I'd say it's worth it...

where do you get insurance to cover a decent level of vets fees for £40 per month?

My latest quote was for about £60 per month and that was only for vets fees up to £1500 which didn't seem worth it to me

 

[pansymouse]

I've never insured, when I was younger I covered bills with a credit card, now I'm older they come out of savings. I do have 3rd party liability via BHS gold membership. It's amazing the price difference in between insured and uninsured treatments. I've never skimped on veterinary treatment but neither have I paid for tests and add-ons of dubious value that vets freely admit to loading onto insurance funded treatment. I am frequently complemented on my management of my 27 yo horse who is still in regular work; she's in better health than many horses less than half her age.

 

[CrimsonDivine]

Exactly - they like it when it dries out ?‍
I knew they wouldn't eat whilst in flower unless desperate.

Next time I'll make sure to qualify my reply a bit better ?

where do you get insurance to cover a decent level of vets fees for £40 per month?

My latest quote was for about £60 per month and that was only for vets fees up to £1500 which didn't seem worth it to me

As someone mentioned earlier you can get external injury vet fee coverage from Harry Hall for £75 per year for that much cover and I'd like to add that if you want illness cover you could go with Emporum who seem to have quite a high reputation so I don't think they're probably a bad insurer? wouldn't know personally as I have no experience with either of these but I just signed up for Harry Hall's Gold/One Club membership for £40 per year, pay £3.33 monthly, for public liablity and I'm still considering whether I want the vet cover myself. Main reason I'm not sure if I will go with Harry Hall is because for just over £20 pm you can get injury and illness cover, including collic surgery, with Exporium so to me that's worth considering. Either way, both under £40. Pays to shop around. Though it also depends on what you want it for as you would have to pay more for tack, stable cover etc too, which may be what is inclusive in your own package?

 

[milliepops]

where do you get insurance to cover a decent level of vets fees for £40 per month?

My latest quote was for about £60 per month and that was only for vets fees up to £1500 which didn't seem worth it to me

is this the problem others have mentioned previously about horse insurance being crazy in Ireland? Why is it so different? (not expecting you to answer personally! more thinking out loud)

 

[Wheels]

is this the problem others have mentioned previously about horse insurance being crazy in Ireland? Why is it so different? (not expecting you to answer personally! more thinking out loud)

I'm in Northern Ireland so *should* in theory be the same cost as the rest of the UK. Maybe it's because we don't have that many vet hospitals. I wonder actually if they would cover vets fees if I had to go south of the border for a bone scan for example

Anyway - I have 4 horses and 4 dogs - if I insured them all I would be paying a few hundred every month at least and you know full well that if I only chose one or two to insure then it would be one of the others that went down with something.

I did have M covered for the first 2 years I owned him but the premium had gone up the first year of renewal, were due to go up the 2nd year again, I hadn't made a claim and no real problems so I cancelled it in Feb and what do ya know, he needed a few hundred spening over the summer. Sods law lol

 

[CrimsonDivine]

That's fair comment Wheels. If I seemed a bit funny I apologise, I was just a bit surprised at the response after shopping around myself. Infact, funny you should mention the premiums going up as Horse-Insurance.co.uk offer 45% discount for their first year but that obviously means the price would go up substantially the year after so I do understand what you're saying and yes insuring multiple can be quite costly, though some insurers will offer a discount for additonal horses.

 

[Annagain]

That's fair comment Wheels. If I seemed a bit funny I apologise, I was just a bit surprised at the response after shopping around myself. Infact, funny you should mention the premiums going up as Horse-Insurance.co.uk offer 45% discount for their first year but that obviously means the price would go up substantially the year after so I do understand what you're saying and yes i
nsuring multiple can be quite costly, though some insurers will offer a discount for additonal horses.

I'm pretty Horse-Insurance.co.uk is E&L, in which case the policy will be barely worth the paper it's written on or the hassle you'll have to try to get them to pay up. They will try to wriggle out of paying even the most straightforward of claims. They tried to refuse to pay a friend's claim (for ulcers caused by SI issues so entirely unrelated) because she had had her booster jabs on the same date for two years in a row and the time period included a leap year so the horse had gone 366 days not 365. This is entirely acceptable to every governing body in equestrian sport and to the BEVA. They relented when she threatened them with the ombudsman but it was a lot of hassle she could have done without.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I've been looking at my finances recently, and insurance for horses, car, dog etc seems to be a major outgoing! I'm wondering if many people skip horse insurance and rely on savings or a credit card? I've been trying to find a reason to keep insurance and struggling.
I'm trying to think of scenarios that would cause a problem - if either of them did a tendon/soft tissue injury, I'd probably pay to have it diagnosed (i.e. ultrasound) and then turf them out to rest. If one of them cut themselves badly, I'd pay to have it stitched up. If they broke a leg or needed colic surgery I'd have them PTS, I wouldn't want to put them through anything like that. I wouldn't go for KS surgery or similar, and neither are at any risk of that.
So I'm thinking, if I reduce to just liability insurance, and then have a credit card on standby (also good for my credit rating I believe) - I would be covered for all eventualities? A few £100 bills here and there aren't a problem, and the CC would be there for any major needs I haven't forseen.

Thoughts/experiences?

Your thinking about what/how you would treat is exactly mine and I don't have insurance. I have savings and a cc. the only thing is that you must use the cc regularly, maybe for petrol and pay it monthly, or the company may rescind it, or lower the limit to something that is not useful.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I'm pretty Horse-Insurance.co.uk is E&L, in which case the policy will be barely worth the paper it's written on or the hassle you'll have to try to get them to pay up. They will try to wriggle out of paying even the most straightforward of claims.

Yup, Horse-Insurance.co.uk are E&L .

INTRODUCTION AND YOUR PROMISES TO US
We have pleasure in introducing this insurance policy from E&L, for people who own horses or ponies or who are involved in equestrian activities. Much careful research went into devising the policy. We hope you will be pleased with the level of cover and the service we are offering.

Lol at that last sentence in their Terms and Conditions.

Bargepole.

 

[CrimsonDivine]

I'm pretty Horse-Insurance.co.uk is E&L, in which case the policy will be barely worth the paper it's written on or the hassle you'll have to try to get them to pay up. They will try to wriggle out of paying even the most straightforward of claims. They tried to refuse to pay a friend's claim (for ulcers caused by SI issues so entirely unrelated) because she had had her booster jabs on the same date for two years in a row and the time period included a leap year so the horse had gone 366 days not 365. This is entirely acceptable to every governing body in equestrian sport and to the BEVA. They relented when she threatened them with the ombudsman but it was a lot of hassle she could have done without.

Such a shame. Thanks for the head's up.

 

[ycbm]

E&L have just paid for thousands of pounds of treatment on a friend's horse which has culminated in loss of use on a horse she has owned less than two years, agreed and just waiting for the cheque. I don't think they are as bad as they used to be, but i wouldn't actually recommend them.

Lots of people buy third party cover when they don't need it. It's on most house insurance policies.
.

 

[Orangehorse]

This is an interesting discussion.

 

[w1bbler]

Ref e&l, still remember seeing a sign at a local vet hospital 'clients insured with e&l will be treated as uninsured'
you have to pay the bill before your horse leaves the premises.
Tells me all I need to know about that insurance company.