milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
This is the case at my vets too.
If you have the funds in the meantime then its not an issue if they cough up eventually but I like the peace of mind of knowing the vets will deal direct with my insurers.
Insurance or Credit Card?
- Thread starter tobiano1984
- Start date
If you have the funds in the meantime then its not an issue if they cough up eventually but I like the peace of mind of knowing the vets will deal direct with my insurers.
IrishMilo
Well-Known Member
The Insurance Emporium - I get 3rd party through BHS so only insured for vet fees up to 5k with an excess of £160 and death/theft.
Unfortunately I took the policy out after investigations begun...
emilylou
Well-Known Member
I have £5k on a credit card that I can use if needed and also save into a 'catastrophe pot' that covers vet bills etc. and aim to keep £5k approx in that.
I have public liablity insurance and otherwise feel all eventualities are covered. Like you I wouldnt choose colic surgery/KS surgery so those big expenses wouldnt be something to consider so the likelihood of needing excess of £10k for vet bills etc are very slim- probably more likely for the dog!
And no monthly insurance bill for me!
I have public liablity insurance and otherwise feel all eventualities are covered. Like you I wouldnt choose colic surgery/KS surgery so those big expenses wouldnt be something to consider so the likelihood of needing excess of £10k for vet bills etc are very slim- probably more likely for the dog!
And no monthly insurance bill for me!
CrimsonDivine
Well-Known Member
That's odd, I found on Insurence Emporium th at vet fees were around £20 for my horse but then I donno, I guess it also depends on how much you value your horse price wise?
Wouldn't want to pay the APR% for that ammount to be honest.
IrishMilo
Well-Known Member
Yep, it does.
Leandy
Well-Known Member
I don't insure (have third party only via PC/BD/BE) have saved a small fortune over the years. For all the reasons you say OP.
To the poster commenting on it being the grumbling things requiring expensive diagnostics you need it for, I don't agree. Insurers don't in practice pay anywhere near in full for the grumbling things because that would usually require multiple claims over more than a year and you will find that problem (plus many others...) excluded after your first claim upon renewal. For the same reason, LOU insurance is well nigh useless (and very expensive) other than for one off catastrophic injuries.
Also agree that a candid conversation with the vet about what is actually cost effective and worth doing because you are not insured will result in a much more reasonable and proportionate cost and approach for diagnosis and treatment. I don't think I will ever pay some of the larger figures often bandied around as a reason for needing insurance when it is my money and my risk.
To the poster commenting on it being the grumbling things requiring expensive diagnostics you need it for, I don't agree. Insurers don't in practice pay anywhere near in full for the grumbling things because that would usually require multiple claims over more than a year and you will find that problem (plus many others...) excluded after your first claim upon renewal. For the same reason, LOU insurance is well nigh useless (and very expensive) other than for one off catastrophic injuries.
Also agree that a candid conversation with the vet about what is actually cost effective and worth doing because you are not insured will result in a much more reasonable and proportionate cost and approach for diagnosis and treatment. I don't think I will ever pay some of the larger figures often bandied around as a reason for needing insurance when it is my money and my risk.
ownedbyaconnie
Well-Known Member
I guess it depends on credit scores etc but I always have a 0% purchase card handy. When the promotion period runs out I close that and open a new one. I use the credit card for commuting, odd bits and bobs that I then clear at the end of the month. But it's always there just in case.
criso
Coming over here & taking your jobs since 1900
Horse value doesn't affect insurance as much as you would think. When I retired one of mine, insurance fees were high and looked at taking him down from a reasonably high value to the minimum as a field ornament. It only made a difference of about £50 for the whole year on a £600 a year premium. It makes a difference for the theft or death part but vets cost the same whatever the value of the horse. It would make a difference for LOU though.
Toby_Zaphod
Well-Known Member
Over the years I've spent a fortune on insurance for one of my horses. We've only claimed once for a relatively minor injury. When I looked at his vet record I saw that for the last 10 years or more he's only got vaccinations on his record. I'm not insuring him anymore, he's 22, he does an occasional dressage test, mainly is hacked does schooling in the arena. If he needs treatment for anything I will just pay the vet direct. Other 2 horses show jump & do dressage & will still be insured. If I knew then what I know now I would have thousands in the bank. 
Alibear
Well-Known Member
If I work it out I've made approx. £40,000 on insurance over the last 25 years of on and off horse ownership. So I completely understand the rising costs. But with two currently it would be approx. £250 per month to insure them, which with all the rest of the costs I can't do. So as of next month they're both on the HH accidental injury cover and I'll save the £60 per month that I could afford extra , have a credit card for emergencies whilst it builds up and pray that for once in my life they remain healthy and and happy; and be pragmatic about it when they don't. I've stupidly gone for two so if one goes lame for a while I still have the other one to ride and we all know how that works out - both horses lame. You can all laugh when I post about it
Violet
Well-Known Member
I've also found out that Vets Fee does NOT include the vet's drugs for putting the horse to sleep!
Buster2020
Well-Known Member
None of them my insurance only covers the death of the horse and public liberties if my horse became lame I would just retire my horse. I won’t get fancy scans done. I would get a X-ray done though and if the horse need treatment then I would pay I won’t leave a horse suffering . What happened to the old days when people just retire horse and then pts when they weren’t field sound.
CrimsonDivine
Well-Known Member
*rolls eyes* I'm just going to let you people crack on. At least I know where I can get insurance that isn't £40 pm. And you can say what you want about that. I swear some people in the horse world have more money than sense to be frank but that's my opinion on the whole thing. Just an FYI, if you keep bouncing around credit cards and not settling your debt, 0% APR or not that kind of thing can certainly come back to bite you in the butt! You'll LOSE your credit score that way. And yeah, it's ok for some to even get 0% but not many of us can. Hell, as I said, I've got very high credit score myself and I can't even get one WITH APR, I think it was 17% ? So whatever. Again this is my speculation and opinion. The OP wanted some advice; I advise against the credit card idea for certain reasons. It may work for some but not for all. Even I thought that this was a good idea once but I've had time to think about it and could imagine how much debt one could get into if they can't afford to pay back after several months. Been there, done that myself, wouldn't be making the same mistake twice. So take my advice OP; don't do it. Also, if you can afford to pay insurers £40+ pm you can afford to put money away. Save up and use your savings if and when needed is really the best method. If you can't then YES insurance is the way to go. Credit card is an idea but risky to your credit score and you may not even get one let alone a decent one at that. In all honesty? I'd rather be denied insurance claims than be in debt with a credit company, at least with that you don't owe em nothing and haven't had to pay alot over the period of a year vs a credit loan APR%, which again does apply to alot of us. Say for example the loan was 17% APR per month that's £850 MER MONTH you will have to pay back for £5k loan. £50 per month for £5k insurance claim? not exactly rocket science here..
criso
Coming over here & taking your jobs since 1900
While that's true for lameness where the option could be to turn away or retire, you still have to allow for accidents which can easily go into 4 figures especially if out of hours and/or requiring taking to hospital so good to have a plan just in case.
ownedbyaconnie
Well-Known Member
APR stands for ANNUAL percentage rate. You would pay £850 in interest over a whole year if you owed £5,000 for the entire year.
Also I think the point you are missing is where people rely on insurance to pay for vet fees but then the insurance deny the claim. How do you then pay the vet fee? I have insurance, I also have a 0% credit card (which i pay the balance off every month) for if and when I make a claim which is then denied.
Rather than stating where you can find insurance for cheaper than £40pm why don't you help the OP out and let them know how they can do the same?
Basically insurance will suit some and not others, credit cards will suit some, building a savings pot will suit some etc etc.
PatchyBabyHorse
Well-Known Member
I’ve been with horse-insurance.co.uk for years now and they paid out thousands with no arguments. Even on 2 horses whose vaccinations had lapsed.
With my new horse though I’ve just insured tack and third party. £50 a month for decent cover is just too much - if there’s ever a £5k bill (God forbid) I’ll just put it on a credit card and pay it off monthly. But hopefully it won’t come to that. I’m a big believer in time and Dr Green for most injuries and having put a few horses through big surgeries with poor results, I’d be very wary of doing it again.
AShetlandBitMeOnce
Well-Known Member
I have my horse insured as it costs me £28 per month for £5k vets fees and some other bits and bobs - for that amount it's worth trying to go through insurers and then if I can't for whatever reason I will credit card it. I am with Insurance Emporium, which I understand is underwritten by E&L, however I have nothing but good things to say about my claim experience (which they could actually have fairly wiggled out of if they so wished) and customer service.
However, I prefer to pay vets up front and deal with my insurers and I am also willing to take the risk on cheap insurance, as if I have to pay it myself then so be it. I like the option of being able to go through with a surgery if I feel it's right at the time, rather than say I wouldn't put Jacob through it, get to the time and feel differently but then not be able to due to finances.
However, I prefer to pay vets up front and deal with my insurers and I am also willing to take the risk on cheap insurance, as if I have to pay it myself then so be it. I like the option of being able to go through with a surgery if I feel it's right at the time, rather than say I wouldn't put Jacob through it, get to the time and feel differently but then not be able to due to finances.
teddypops
Well-Known Member
That will be stated in your policy.
Littlebear
Well-Known Member
I have savings for any given circumstance, for me it would be savings or insurance rather than credit card or insurance as a choice.
You always have to consider how you will manage debt if you ever get in trouble; illness, job loss or whatever.
I know 2 people at this moment who chose credit card and have both now had their horses pts and are left with large credit card bills.
I work in finance aswell and see lots of people get in trouble really easily so if I ever didn’t have fairly significant savings I would definitely get insurance (absolute last resort though I can’t stand dealing with all that goes with horse insurance).
You always have to consider how you will manage debt if you ever get in trouble; illness, job loss or whatever.
I know 2 people at this moment who chose credit card and have both now had their horses pts and are left with large credit card bills.
I work in finance aswell and see lots of people get in trouble really easily so if I ever didn’t have fairly significant savings I would definitely get insurance (absolute last resort though I can’t stand dealing with all that goes with horse insurance).
criso
Coming over here & taking your jobs since 1900
True but it is usually a separate line item which depending on tbe policy may be part of the package or an optional add on.
However i can understand how someone might think a vet injecting with drugs to pts would come under the vets fees section.
honetpot
Well-Known Member
If you are denied cover for treatment for your horse, what do you do, if you rely totally on insurance you may have to fund it your self anyway. There was a study that found out that insurance cover in most cases would not cover the costs of major surgery. You make it sound like having credit cards is risky for everyone, I have four and I owe exactly 52p over all of them, like all tools if you learn how to use them properly you can use them to your advantage. Learning about APR is important but so is looking at what your insurance actually covers. Do you need that cover, some of it you may be covered with your house insurance, some LOU are dependent of certain events, and you may decide that you do not want your equine to have attempted treatment before its PTS.
When I had twelve, I think I insured one, just because he was a big young horse, and the most likely to have something go wrong, until after being paid £90 for a hoof abscess, and they then wanted to exclude the whole leg, I dropped it after two years.
I think before a horse is ever ill or injured you have to decide how far would you want to go with treatment, depending on its age and previous medical history insurance may not be the best value.
C24
Member
I don’t insure mine. I have 3rd party insurance but don’t insure for illness or death. I’m very fortunate to have a vet who allows their clients to have an account and pay their bills off monthly. I had to pay for his first vet bill up front (was just annual vaccinations) and then I was allowed an account. I also have a credit card with a £300 limit to pay for minor vet calls, mainly because we get a 20% discount for paying it on the day so works out cheaper than putting onto the account. My friend has 7 horses and has found having an account with the vet a life saver, she doesn’t insure hers either as she’d end up spending a fortune on all of them.
I know that vets offering accounts are few and far between though. Personally, if I didn’t have a vet that offered an account then I’d probably look at a credit card or the likes as long as it had a decent limit on it.
I know that vets offering accounts are few and far between though. Personally, if I didn’t have a vet that offered an account then I’d probably look at a credit card or the likes as long as it had a decent limit on it.
teddypops
Well-Known Member
It’s usually very clear and why people need to read their policy thoroughly, most people don’t bother.
CrimsonDivine
Well-Known Member
Because stating where already points them to how? And yes you do have a valid point, either one has it's own faults to be honest. As for APR is applied monthly or at least it was for me. APR stands for Annual Percentage Rate. This means how much percentage you pay for that year, not that you pay it off in a year.
I agree entirely and wasn't trying to say insurance was perfect but from what I've experienced credit loans can be rather risky thus wouldn't fully recommend.
CrimsonDivine
Well-Known Member
Also want to add that £50 per month for 12 months is £700 which is still cheaper either way AND you pay NOTHING back to the insurer as far as I know, whereas you most certainly DO have to pay back a credit loan as well as your APR and minimal monthly fee which over a year is certainly more than £50 per month. And even IF your APR is zero no credit card is going to let you loan £5k for less than £50 per month. Infact I'd be willing to bet minimal would be probably double for that amount. Unless of course you get lucky enough to get a loan that also gives you a year to start paying back. I had one that was 6 months but the amount soon mounted up over that period. All I can say is be very careful with credit loans, don't take what you can't afford. Though hell if you could then why would you need to let alone why didn't you just save it up yourself in the first place?
honetpot
Well-Known Member
Most insurance companies have an excess, I have no idea what its is now on most policies, but going on my previous experience by the time you have paid the excess, the amount of the bill being paid by the insurance company can be less than a half. There is also the fact that insurance policy may not cover the full cost of any treatment or investigations, which may make a financial decision of how to fund treatment, even worse at what already is a stressful time. Most people take out insurance they are expecting they will not have to worry about the cost of the treatment, that it will be covered, but that is not always true.
https://veterinaryrecord.bmj.com/content/185/16/508
'This study reports on the financial costs of colic treatment in horses. The costs of referral treatment vary widely, but this study provides data on the range of costs that might be expected for different types of colic. There is frequently a significant gap between insurance cover and the cost for surgical treatment that owners of insured horses should be aware of and consider in their decision-making. This study also highlights a need to review the documentation that is currently available to owners from the insurance companies, to ensure that it is easily readable and understood. The role of the veterinary surgeon in guiding the owner through the complexity of decision-making and insurance policies should not be underestimated. The costing and insurance data from this study should assist veterinary surgeons and horse owners with critical decision-making in horses with colic.'
If you read the whole study there is also a section about how understandable policy wording is, so that the buyer understands the cover they have bought and how and when they can make a claim.
https://veterinaryrecord.bmj.com/content/185/16/508
'This study reports on the financial costs of colic treatment in horses. The costs of referral treatment vary widely, but this study provides data on the range of costs that might be expected for different types of colic. There is frequently a significant gap between insurance cover and the cost for surgical treatment that owners of insured horses should be aware of and consider in their decision-making. This study also highlights a need to review the documentation that is currently available to owners from the insurance companies, to ensure that it is easily readable and understood. The role of the veterinary surgeon in guiding the owner through the complexity of decision-making and insurance policies should not be underestimated. The costing and insurance data from this study should assist veterinary surgeons and horse owners with critical decision-making in horses with colic.'
If you read the whole study there is also a section about how understandable policy wording is, so that the buyer understands the cover they have bought and how and when they can make a claim.
maya2008
Well-Known Member
I don't think it's any cheaper whichever way you go.
I am slowly switching over to the savings route because I far prefer the experience with the vets this way. More discussion, more careful consideration and less of the 'let's try this because you're covered anyway'. Equally, I want to be able to call the vet for something minor (e.g. diarrhoea that turns out to be due to a sudden spurt of grass growth, or that's going round at the yard) and not be excluded from claims to that part of the body forever. I want to be able to give the best care without it impacting me significantly financially down the line, and I don't have the money to do both (savings and insurance) in the long term. So I'm building a substantial nest egg and that will do. I'm contributing the exact same amount I would spend on insurance though, so it's not cheaper, it just gives me more choice. Like the insurance, I'll pay minor bills from my income, the nest egg will be there for bigger stuff. I have multiple horses though, so the bill for insurance for a year is several thousand anyway.
I am slowly switching over to the savings route because I far prefer the experience with the vets this way. More discussion, more careful consideration and less of the 'let's try this because you're covered anyway'. Equally, I want to be able to call the vet for something minor (e.g. diarrhoea that turns out to be due to a sudden spurt of grass growth, or that's going round at the yard) and not be excluded from claims to that part of the body forever. I want to be able to give the best care without it impacting me significantly financially down the line, and I don't have the money to do both (savings and insurance) in the long term. So I'm building a substantial nest egg and that will do. I'm contributing the exact same amount I would spend on insurance though, so it's not cheaper, it just gives me more choice. Like the insurance, I'll pay minor bills from my income, the nest egg will be there for bigger stuff. I have multiple horses though, so the bill for insurance for a year is several thousand anyway.
CanteringCarrot
Well-Known Member
Most, if not all of the clinics I've been to here in Germany do not accept credit cards. I've only been to like, 4 though. I do have insurance but they never payout for anything! and the options are a bit limited. I really miss UK and even US horse insurance! so much better and you get more for your money.
I carried a balance of 1-2k on a card for a bit in my younger day, and honestly, my credit score didn't go down in flames. Now, 10 years later, it is high/very above average. So, you do what you have to do. I think people know that with a credit card you end up paying more, due to fees and whatnot, but I think people swallow that when their beloved equine's life is potentially on the line. Ah, the things we do for these critters!
I carried a balance of 1-2k on a card for a bit in my younger day, and honestly, my credit score didn't go down in flames. Now, 10 years later, it is high/very above average. So, you do what you have to do. I think people know that with a credit card you end up paying more, due to fees and whatnot, but I think people swallow that when their beloved equine's life is potentially on the line. Ah, the things we do for these critters!
ownedbyaconnie
Well-Known Member
It still isn’t £850 in interest a month...interest is charged monthly but it’s 1/12 of the APR (or thereabouts. I think they actually charge interest daily but for simplicity let’s say it’s about 1/12th).
Also I have insurance that costs me about £40 a month. I still had to fork out £500 excess. And there was still the risk that insurance weren’t going to pay and I was going to have to find £1.8k literally as my house purchase was to complete.
Hence why I think it is is sensible to have a back up plan, yes credit cards/loans can be expensive. But I’d rather pay the interest then my horse/dog/cat suffer
CrimsonDivine
Well-Known Member
First of all clearly you're with the wrong insurer, unless you think otherwise but for that excess fee I strongly dissagree and would question how much research and digging around you've done before applying. I found Emporium, whom has been mentioned a few times now and seems to have alot of good ratings over the net, have £170 or something like that. Which I found MOST do on average I might add. As for having a loan vs your animals suffering? So you'd rather jeperdise putting yourself in debt thus the possibility of losing them and thus them probably suffering the consiquences of your actions doing so thereafter? Yeah ok. As I said; crack on. As that old saying goes; you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.