"Intelligent Horsemanship", IHDG forum - dictatorship?
- Thread starter noobs31
- Start date
Fransurrey
Well-Known Member
Somehow I always managed to avoid being banned on there, but I haven't posted on it since 2009, I think. Hope you get some answers, Noobs, as it doesn't sound like you were drumming up hatred, to me.
ETA: Just gone to read the thread and I think you might have also over-reacted there, noobs, sorry! Sounds like MR just asked an RA to re-issue a statement he'd already made to refute the comment. I clicked on your profile too, which says Account Activated, so are you sure you're banned? Maybe you're on a holiday, like HHO suspensions, lol! Having never been such a bad girl, I don't know what 'Account status' reads, when the member is banned!
ETA: Just gone to read the thread and I think you might have also over-reacted there, noobs, sorry! Sounds like MR just asked an RA to re-issue a statement he'd already made to refute the comment. I clicked on your profile too, which says Account Activated, so are you sure you're banned? Maybe you're on a holiday, like HHO suspensions, lol! Having never been such a bad girl, I don't know what 'Account status' reads, when the member is banned!
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Fellewell
Well-Known Member
The South African reference is to the Handspring Puppet Company who worked on the horse behaviour aspect. I think this is what MR is talking about, his influence on horse movement in the play.
I thought the film was based on Champion The Wonderhorse, it didn't seem very realistic but I think Monty may have sung the theme tune, unless it was Dennis Waterman, who also wrote it.
I thought the film was based on Champion The Wonderhorse, it didn't seem very realistic but I think Monty may have sung the theme tune, unless it was Dennis Waterman, who also wrote it.
Alyth
Well-Known Member
There is a lot of twaddle posted on every forum discussing Intelligent Horsemanship. Most of the posters are making judgements based on one incident - and most posters have no idea of what IH or nh is!! Most posters are basing their judgements on learner horsemen or prejudiced media reports......
The pot calling the kettle black, Alyth?
LOL I'm not even judging on an incident!! Simply judging a page of threads on an internet site!!!
amandap
Well-Known Member
Exactly!
Answers have been given over the years many times and it just seems people don't like them, fair enough but I don't see a dedicated/specific forum holding up it's hands and saying... Oh of course, YOU are right, which is what some posters seem to be after. It's not a general forum, if you don't like it don't go on it, simples. It certainly seems to cause consternation as there is a long history of posters banned going elsewhere and slagging it off on other fora. Says more about the posters to me.
FairyLights
Well-Known Member
What about those who do like it though but just want rational answers to certain questions? Like why are pressure halters deemed so necessary by so many on there? Why its mostly about human phycology and a lot of the stuff isnt "kind" in the way they think a lot of them are just anti-traditional for the sake of it it seems to me. You cant have a discussion about any of it or exthole the virtues of tried and trusted ways without getting banned,. Not a discussion forum at all.
cronkmooar
Well-Known Member
I only popped into this thread because I had naff all else to do and I thought there might have been an amusing ding dong going on
I dont really give a monkey's about the topic - but that made me laugh out loud
potto
Well-Known Member
I watched the video not sure i saw anything wrong with what he was saying, he has written quite a few books like 'text' books on horse behaviour, i thought to be honest that was what he was inferring when it came to the play writers but as far as that goes its a good play and film however it was achieved and no harm has come to anyone from it as far as i am aware. so does it matter?
Regarding the IH forum, i have been on it for some time i haven't always agreed with everything, haven't been banned ... YET... but who knows? I always think there is healthy debates on there as long as it dosen't get too nasty. I like the fact that you actually get responses from the horses mouths..i.e Kelly, Monty and Heather and others.... and yes we all make mistakes and get angry sometimes or need help and or say sorry we are human. I have been posting recently on a different thread about the Mendip Stud and pure feeds which i think is a bit close to the grain and no one has been banned from that. I guess there is always a first time though... but i will be sad if that happens as i like to think you get what you see.
Regarding the IH forum, i have been on it for some time i haven't always agreed with everything, haven't been banned ... YET... but who knows? I always think there is healthy debates on there as long as it dosen't get too nasty. I like the fact that you actually get responses from the horses mouths..i.e Kelly, Monty and Heather and others.... and yes we all make mistakes and get angry sometimes or need help and or say sorry we are human. I have been posting recently on a different thread about the Mendip Stud and pure feeds which i think is a bit close to the grain and no one has been banned from that. I guess there is always a first time though...
but i will be sad if that happens as i like to think you get what you see.
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Vintage
Well-Known Member
Doesn't surprise me. I once asked about the rumours about Monty being a fraud (Like some of the methods, don't like the man) and recieved a lot of abuse from forum members.
I used to have blind belief that he was "amazing" in my teens, but started to see strange things in it all, now he seems very.. commercial.
I used to have blind belief that he was "amazing" in my teens, but started to see strange things in it all, now he seems very.. commercial.
Wagtail
Horse servant
I'm not a Monty fan, I don't like 'join up' etc, but unlike the Parelli's, I actually quite like the man. To me, It is OBVIOUS that it was a mistake in his phrasing and that he didn't literally mean what he said. I am not a member of the IHDG forum, but as far as I'm concerned they have every right to ban anyone they choose for no reason at all. Shame, really because it would be far better to just argue their case, but up to them at the end of the day.
Personally, I don't follow any NH or traditional trainer. I use my own methods which may incorporate a bit of one and a bit of the other. Problems arise when people blindly follow one method and can't think for themselves.
Personally, I don't follow any NH or traditional trainer. I use my own methods which may incorporate a bit of one and a bit of the other. Problems arise when people blindly follow one method and can't think for themselves.
noobs31
Well-Known Member
Interesting to see you on the IHDG post, attempting and failing to stir things up. And you're making a huge assumption, that our misgivings are based on lack of understanding of your "IH"/"NH" beliefs/training methods/allegiance. Personally, my distaste is based on many things, but primarily, the marketing of age-old methods as having been devised and invented by one individual.There is a lot of twaddle posted on every forum discussing Intelligent Horsemanship. Most of the posters are making judgements based on one incident - and most posters have no idea of what IH or nh is!! Most posters are basing their judgements on learner horsemen or prejudiced media reports......
The pot calling the kettle black, Alyth?
Response eventually received from IHDG mods after some badgering. Seems to me I was not grateful enough:
noobs31
Well-Known Member
And as for those who proclaim, if you don't like it, don't go there, leave us to it...I for one would, if it weren't for the vast number of perfectly good horses who are messed up and/or written off due to "natural horsemanship" methods. The entire idea of a "problem horse" has been generated by this machine. Whilst they retain as their motto that "there are no problem horses, only owners". They make insidious amounts of cash by marketing quick fixes which they sell at obscenely high prices. The problem of the novice owner is a new one, and awfully bad news for the horse. They seek not to fix it, but to capitalise. Monty is an awfully rich man. He's not selfless. Just go and read the IHDG (those of us who are not banned, obviously) and every day you'll see some poor person "giving up", because they've bought the gadgets, books and DVDs and things are still unimproved.
If I thought for one second, that horse welfare were at the forefront of any of their minds, I'd capitulate. Good grief, how many of us turn up to help a less experienced friend with our hair flowing free and our shirts knotted at the waist?! Sheesh!
If I thought for one second, that horse welfare were at the forefront of any of their minds, I'd capitulate. Good grief, how many of us turn up to help a less experienced friend with our hair flowing free and our shirts knotted at the waist?! Sheesh!
canteron
Well-Known Member
Oh my goodness is this thread still going on. Noobs31, get over it, don't you have some Christmas Presents to wrap or something to take your mind off the great insult.
noobs31
Well-Known Member
The same could be said for you, and this thread. I don't feel your response represents the majority view. Many expressed an interest as to whether I received a response to my email enquiry. Now do get to bed. I'm sure you have "groudwork" to do in the morning.
Bundle20
Well-Known Member
Canteron - are you suggesting noobs doesn't have a life? Can't you just imagine the jolly little Christmas cards she'll be sending out this year? Can't you imagine the joy she will be spreading?
FairyLights
Well-Known Member
^^^
great post. Says it all.
Bundle20
Well-Known Member
£25 for years membership/£25 for a ticket to see Monty- the man who the Horse and Hound (through the rider) credited for the success of the Supreme Horse of the Year 2012 Plus the Derby Winner wore his Monty Roberts Stalling Stalls blanket. No wonder noobs sounds bitter if she feels £25 is a fortune. You don't have to be a raving fan or even personally like this person who got the award from the Queen to think he must have some useful knowlege that would be worth £25? How much does one pay for a lesson from a recently qualified BHSAI instuctor nowadays?
Perhaps noobs is secretly working for him to flag up interest in his February tour?!
Perhaps noobs is secretly working for him to flag up interest in his February tour?!
Littlelegs
Well-Known Member
I'm not a follower of the whole ih, nh thing, & I do think on a individual basis that monty himself is becoming slightly less in touch with reality as years pass. Personally I think that a lot of things claimed to be his methods are just very old-fashioned good horsemanship, & I use them anyway. I'm not a fan of join up & I don't like the marketing ploy of ih/nh. Or the fact everything is promoted as kind. Eg my personal bug bear the dually. Lots of fools going round socking horses noses, not having a clue how they work. Of course stallion chains & chifneys are just as bad in the wrong hands, but unlike duallys aren't promoted as kind, so the average well meaning novice doesn't just use them wily nily, thinking they are mild.
However, I don't think its fair to blame monty for every idiot who practices in his name. Our local idiot worships Kelly marks. And attributes everything she does to km. Eg km said to do this, km said you shouldn't do that, despite never having done more than read a book. Imo that doesn't make km a fool, just the lady who follows her. And its no different to any other method. I've met idiots who fancy themselves as dressage riders, & whack doubles on green horses to get an outline. That doesn't mean Carl hester etc are all misguided, just the idiot that blindly thinks holding a horses head in is dressage. And whilst monty does have a cult like following, that imo should have the negative aspects as widely promoted as the positive, I do feel its unfair to blame monty for every idiot that gets it wrong in his name.
However, I don't think its fair to blame monty for every idiot who practices in his name. Our local idiot worships Kelly marks. And attributes everything she does to km. Eg km said to do this, km said you shouldn't do that, despite never having done more than read a book. Imo that doesn't make km a fool, just the lady who follows her. And its no different to any other method. I've met idiots who fancy themselves as dressage riders, & whack doubles on green horses to get an outline. That doesn't mean Carl hester etc are all misguided, just the idiot that blindly thinks holding a horses head in is dressage. And whilst monty does have a cult like following, that imo should have the negative aspects as widely promoted as the positive, I do feel its unfair to blame monty for every idiot that gets it wrong in his name.
amandap
Well-Known Member
I strongly agree with this point and add this applies to any training/thinking you follow. We must take responsibility for our own actions, learning and choices, not enter the blame culture...
Blurr
Well-Known Member
Intelligent Horsemanship is not Monty, it's Kelly Marks. I don't know if things have changed over recent years but Monty did not used to support IH or the Recommended Associates of Kelly. Understandably. From a financial viewpoint he'd rather those RA's and other interested people went to his Flag Is Up farm and paid to do his courses (costing thousands rather than the hundreds to do the IH courses).
fburton
Well-Known Member
Interesting that you should ascribe that motive to me.
Sorry, you lost me there - I can't see what relevance my own beliefs could possibly have in this matter. And my "allegiance"?? I'd like to hear what you think it is (by pm if you like)!
If you're referring to my "There is a lot of twaddle..." paragraph, that was a modified quote of Alyth's from another thread that she wrote in response to people's comments about Parelli. It was a good natured throwaway comment, intended only to highlight a similarity in pattern between the two threads, not a serious rebuke.
Wagtail
Horse servant
Excellent post. I do think there is an element of bitterness and even jealousy from those who seek to relentlessly attack people such as Monty Roberts. Why shouldn't someone who is a good horseman make money out of what they do? I think MR et al pales into insignificance in terms of 'rip off' compared to Parelli.
canteron
Well-Known Member
Heeheehee, love it!!! Do you do road rage as well?
madmav
Well-Known Member
Noobs, you should alert Michael Morpurgo to Monty Roberts' Utube claims. Either Morpurgo plagiarised these South African writers for his novel War Horse or Monty is talking tosh. I know which one I'd put money on...
Monty has done some good work with horses but he is becoming increasingly like Walter Mitty.
Monty has done some good work with horses but he is becoming increasingly like Walter Mitty.
Bundle20
Well-Known Member
"Heeheehee, love it!!! Do you do road rage as well?" LOL
Monty gave a somewhat formal but clear answer on the IHDG 'Deeply apologising if he'd given the wrong impression'
http://ihdg.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=gh11&action=display&thread=125474
but it only seemed to make poor noobs even more angry. Funny that.
Monty gave a somewhat formal but clear answer on the IHDG 'Deeply apologising if he'd given the wrong impression'
http://ihdg.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=gh11&action=display&thread=125474
but it only seemed to make poor noobs even more angry. Funny that.
TheoryX1
Well-Known Member
Now OP what did you expect? You questioned the word of the cult leader. Of course you have to be banned from that cult.
eahotson
Well-Known Member
Excellent post.
eahotson
Well-Known Member
Another excellent post.
noobs31
Well-Known Member
But that analogy does not stand up. Monty/Kelly and their affiliates are selling a training method. Hester is an athlete at the top of his discipline. The former are making promises and cash, the latter is competing at the top of his game. And most importantly, those who have quoted this as an "excellent post" have reinforced my idea that "IH" (or whatever the "correct" term or acronym is, and with this I include all the massively marketed "natural" methods) is indeed cultish, and making vast amounts of money out of those of us who are not terribly bright.
eahotson
Well-Known Member
Well I thought the idea of being in a cult is that you DON'T use your own judgement at all you just play follow the leader.My mistake obviously and I am obviously cultish.