Irresponsible Owners

[CorvusCorax]

Just scanned it and it's wanting to make me throw my monitor into the sea so I'd best step away

 

[Titchy Pony]

I must admit I have zero sympathy with the moaning (?) about picking up poos and wiping dirty paws... that's just every day dog care. As for the dogs dirtying the bed sheets before having had time to wipe them down: don't let them loose until they're clean!

 

[ArklePig]

I must admit I have zero sympathy with the moaning (?) about picking up poos and wiping dirty paws... that's just every day dog care. As for the dogs dirtying the bed sheets before having had time to wipe them down: don't let them loose until they're clean!

Yes I made this mistake once well and truly learned my lesson.

 

[Titchy Pony]

Yes I made this mistake once well and truly learned my lesson.

That's it though isn't it, everyone is bound to make all sorts of mistakes once in a while. The whole point is to not keep on doing them.
I may have lost the best part of a homegrown, home cooked ratatouille because I never thought doggo would steal veg!

 

[GSD Woman]

I think I sprained my eyes due to rolling them so hard reading that article. better than giving myself a concussion from banging my head.

Positive reinforcement is great for teaching behaviors but sometimes other methods are needed to reinforce those behaviors. And who in their right minds lets a sight hound off lead anywhere besides a securely fenced area?!

 

[splashgirl45]

I think I sprained my eyes due to rolling them so hard reading that article. better than giving myself a concussion from banging my head.

Positive reinforcement is great for teaching behaviors but sometimes other methods are needed to reinforce those behaviors. And who in their right minds lets a sight hound off lead anywhere besides a securely fenced area?!

I do, I walk round the fields where it’s quite busy with other people walking dogs and I don’t walk very early or late as that is when wildlife is more active round there. My current lurcher is only 1 year old and very obedient but I am prepared to be challenged when he gets a bit older , I hope I have got the basics firmly installed ..

 

[GSD Woman]

splashgirl45,

I'm glad you're a responsible owner. So many don't train a reliable recall. I can add you to the fingers of one hand to the people who have a good recall on their sighthound. And, you have common sense to not walk during active wildlife times.

 

[some show]

The very first comment on that article:

Bloody hell.

I know someone with a Pharaoh Hound who lets it off the lead and it regularly disappears for HOURS, covering miles of land - including through a nature reserve, which incidentally has hebridean sheep grazing. It's run across a dual carriageway and back several times (9 lives I think!), is an ace small-furry hunter/killer and chases horses. But when I talk to the guy, he's of the opinion that dogs are 'free spirits' so despite the fact that he's literally camped out in the dark waiting for this dog to reappear, I'm the mad one for having my greyhound (who, to be fair, would also like to hunt small furry things of his own volition) securely by my side and heading home while it's still light out!

 

[skinnydipper]

Positive reinforcement is great for teaching behaviors but sometimes other methods are needed to reinforce those behaviors. And who in their right minds lets a sight hound off lead anywhere besides a securely fenced area?!

Me. I had 2 lurchers and a whippet.

Positive reinforcement. No aversives - none, ever.

 

[Escapade]

It's not that sighthounds can't ever go off lead, but owners must know their limitations. The dogs history and temperament also factor in.
"I did it with my lurcher" is meaningless tbh

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

The very first comment on that article:

Bloody hell.

I know someone with a Pharaoh Hound who lets it off the lead and it regularly disappears for HOURS, covering miles of land - including through a nature reserve, which incidentally has hebridean sheep grazing. It's run across a dual carriageway and back several times (9 lives I think!), is an ace small-furry hunter/killer and chases horses. But when I talk to the guy, he's of the opinion that dogs are 'free spirits' so despite the fact that he's literally camped out in the dark waiting for this dog to reappear, I'm the mad one for having my greyhound (who, to be fair, would also like to hunt small furry things of his own volition) securely by my side and heading home while it's still light out!

Ugh there's a social media 'dog trainer' with this view and it drives me nuts. Quite happy to let his dog off out of sight chasing all sorts because 'it's good for their mental health'

Maybe I'd feel more confident with a sighthound if I'd had from a pup but something that's been used for actual hunting or racing, I think it's right to be ultra cautious.

 

[splashgirl45]

It's not that sighthounds can't ever go off lead, but owners must know their limitations. The dogs history and temperament also factor in.
"I did it with my lurcher" is meaningless tbh

That’s why I said I avoid early morning and evening. Although my lurchers have been trained to recall I never set them up to fail . If I took my current one out at 6am I could almost guarantee we would see deer in my area and I am also pretty sure he would chase, I can call him away from other dogs people and birds so far which is pretty good for a 1 year old lurcher but wouldn’t want to chance deer

 

[some show]

Maybe I'd feel more confident with a sighthound if I'd had from a pup but something that's been used for actual hunting or racing, I think it's right to be ultra cautious.

Good point, yeah! Mine did hare coursing and racing. Has an extreme reaction to cats, deer and wild boar but is pretty ambivalent about rabbits and pheasants. He completely ignores livestock (even lambs/calves/chickens) which makes me wonder if he grew up around them but obviously I'd still never let him off lead near them. I do sometimes think it'd be nice to have a dog without prey drive

 

[skinnydipper]

The dogs history and temperament also factor in.
"I did it with my lurcher" is meaningless tbh

My lurchers longdogs - one was found tied to railings so emaciated and weak that she couldn't stand, the Saluki x dumped by travellers; the whippet was no longer wanted by her owner.

The only time one of them was out of sight for a few minutes was the "kebab incident" but that's another story

Edit. Photo deleted.

 

[Escapade]

That’s why I said I avoid early morning and evening. Although my lurchers have been trained to recall I never set them up to fail . If I took my current one out at 6am I could almost guarantee we would see deer in my area and I am also pretty sure he would chase, I can call him away from other dogs people and birds so far which is pretty good for a 1 year old lurcher but wouldn’t want to chance deer

Not directed the comment at you, or anyone in particular

My lurchers longdogs - one was found tied to railings so emaciated and weak that she couldn't stand, the Saluki x dumped by travellers; the whippet was no longer wanted by her owner.

The only time one of them was out of sight for a few minutes was the "kebab incident" but that's another story

ETA. Lived with my others dogs and cats.

Good for you. Again, owners and limitations. They are all pieces of the puzzle

 

[Annette4]

I have 2 sighthounds, one has near perfect recall and can safely be let off in residential type parks, beaches and areas without nesting birds/sheep (I'd never trust her 100%). The other, with even more training, can never be off a long line outside of specific circumstances and even then I don't 100% trust him I just know the distractions are reduced enough that I'd be able to get him back.....that's the difference though, I did a runner once and he's not been off the long line since because that's the responsible response.

 

[GSD Woman]

Positive reinforcement. No aversives - none, ever.

What part of this did you not understand?

sometimes other methods are needed to reinforce those behaviors

 

[skinnydipper]

Positive reinforcement is great for teaching behaviors but sometimes other methods are needed to reinforce those behaviors

What part of this did you not understand?

WOW! I am sure you did not intend to be so rude

None of it. I didn't understand at all.

What are the "other methods"? Please could you be specific.

Why do you need them?

 

[CorvusCorax]

Can I just ask what if people think that in life, a dog should receive no negative consequences whatsoever? From the human, from nature, etc?

And I don't mean 'withdrawl of reward'.

Does any animal, including a human, go through its entire life without having to endure something it finds momentarily unpleasant, recover and continue?

 

[some show]

If it's e.g. teaching recall (which is what skinnydipper was talking about originally), is there a need for anything other than positive reinforcement with that? Especially with a sighthound which are notoriously a bit sensitive. I take my dog to the vets (which he's scared of) because it's a necessary part of his life, but I do prefer for him not to be scared of things, generally - he's a bit of a custard to be fair! When I was teaching him recall I just used a whistle and treats to make it fun. If he doesn't come these days, rarely, it's because I've not made myself interesting enough/haven't proofed it to the n'th degree - he doesn't get a negative response for doing that, though. Of course, I'm not in a dangerous/delicate situation with him, we're just in fields having a nice walk and the recall's just a fun game we play - if I needed him to recall perfectly every time I'd have to work harder!

I guess an important factor of the discussion is that we've all got different breeds of dogs, some are pets, some are working, and some people expect more than others do. Some people's aversives are a lot stronger than others, too.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Not using quotes as the forum is being absolutely horrendous on the phone, but yes, sometimes things other than positive reinforcement can be utilised in teaching recall. If the dog's drive is such that it favours chasing things over whatever it is that the human has to offer and risking getting shot/run over or causing an RTC/injuring or getting injured by another dog or animal, then sometimes telling a dog that it must never, ever do that again, is the lesser of two evils, IMO.

I think everyone here's dogs are pets, some of us just do some activities with them. Recall is recall, arguably even more important for a pet dog.

 

[GSD Woman]

What are the "other methods"? Please could you be specific.

Why do you need them?

It could be keeping a dog on a long line. It could mean walking down a dog and bringing it back to you. Depends on the dog.

Can I just ask what if people think that in life, a dog should receive no negative consequences whatsoever? From the human, from nature, etc?

And I don't mean 'withdrawl of reward'.

Does any animal, including a human, go through its entire life without having to endure something it finds momentarily unpleasant, recover and continue?

^^^^
This so much this. I've never trained a sighthound but I have trained terriers, monkeys, cats and rats. All have to face negative consequences in some form or another.

 

[stangs]

This so much this. I've never trained a sighthound but I have trained terriers, monkeys, cats and rats. All have to face negative consequences in some form or another.

If you don't mind me being nosey, are you a zoo professional to have been able to train monkeys?

 

[GSD Woman]

If you don't mind me being nosey, are you a zoo professional to have been able to train monkeys?































































It was part of a former job that I miss very much.

 

[Clodagh]

Has no one ever ran up to their dog yelling while it eats rubbish or just generally ignores them? I assume yelling ‘no’ is negative and therefore bad. I’m amazed my bunch are still standing

 

[Annette4]

Has no one ever ran up to their dog yelling while it eats rubbish or just generally ignores them? I assume yelling ‘no’ is negative and therefore bad. I’m amazed my bunch are still standing

Same I've got 2 who have even lost off lead privilege in the back garden at the moment and one gets a bottle of stones thrown near her when she's starting fights through the fence to break her fixation so she will recall rather than dragging her in.

 

[MurphysMinder]

Same I've got 2 who have even lost off lead privilege in the back garden at the moment and one gets a bottle of stones thrown near her when she's starting fights through the fence to break her fixation so she will recall rather than dragging her in.

Yes I charge at mine bellowing when they are eating/rolling in gross stuff . I have also used a rattle tin in the past but not for the current 3 - yet

 

[GSD Woman]

one gets a bottle of stones thrown near her when she's starting fights through the fence to break her fixation so she will recall rather than dragging her in.

Freddie got so bad about not wanting to get into the car or let me catch her at the end of our walks I ended up taking an old fur saver collar and putting a clip on it. I lobbed it at her rear end, NOT hitting her. She very quickly learned it was better to come close enough to put on the lead or get in the car. Not positive reinforcement but better than my dog getting hurt by a car or an out of control dog. YMMV

 

[Nasicus]

Has no one ever ran up to their dog yelling while it eats rubbish or just generally ignores them? I assume yelling ‘no’ is negative and therefore bad. I’m amazed my bunch are still standing

The little Gremlin certainly got a few negative words back along, when (fully toilet trained) she hopped up on the bed, looked me in the eye and pissed on it.
Not sure how I could spin that towards a positive reinforcement angle, but she's never done it again since.

 

[ponyparty]

Yup - when mine hot adolescence he started marking indoors. Very short lived as I caught him in the act of pissing on freshly washed sheets hanging on a radiator to dry. He got the bollocking of a lifetime and has never done it since. (He has pooed in the house when it was raining and he didn’t want to go outside, mind the little toad! No telling off for that though as didn’t catch him in the act and really, who can blame Mr Fancy Paws for not wanting to get wet?!)