Is anyone else not entirely convinced by the Horse Hoarders plight?

[FionaM12]

The poster of the photos says that the horses were reported and the grey mare destroyed.....

Poor little grey mare, whether she was his or not. It's awful to think what she must have gone through and how long she'd been hobbling round with a broken leg.

 

[Mongoose11]

Sorry where is the proof that the neglected animals on that thread are linked with Clywd or have I missed it?

 

[guesstimation]

I don't think there is any yet its all hearsay on both sides I'm hoping RSPCA will make some kind of statement so we know what is true and what isn't

I have to stop reading the fb group now I keep going to comment as its winding me up then deciding better of it! Not worth it

 

[Fii]

Sorry where is the proof that the neglected animals on that thread are linked with Clywd or have I missed it?

just what i was wondering!

 

[Patterdale]

There isn't any proof.....yet.
Those photos really, really shocked me and my immediate reaction was just utter disgust.

However, on reflection......yes it was horrible, particularly that poor, poor grey mare - but there ISN'T any proof just yet that they were his.

That Michelle posted, seemingly quite honestly, that she didn't know until she can ask him.

I'm still not too sure about her but she does seem to be conducting herself quite well on the Facebook page, and trying to answer things honestly.

I still stand by my comments about the RSPCAs failings, but these were of a general nature and not confined to this case. My dislike of the RSPCA stems more from their political motives.

BUT this has taught me an awful lot about not believing everything you see or read.

And to this end, I can't believe that those pictures are his horses until there is proof, which, if if exists, will no doubt surface soon

 

[horsesatemymoney]

There isn't any proof.....yet.
Those photos really, really shocked me and my immediate reaction was just utter disgust.

However, on reflection......yes it was horrible, particularly that poor, poor grey mare - but there ISN'T any proof just yet that they were his.

That Michelle posted, seemingly quite honestly, that she didn't know until she can ask him.

I'm still not too sure about her but she does seem to be conducting herself quite well on the Facebook page, and trying to answer things honestly.

I still stand by my comments about the RSPCAs failings, but these were of a general nature and not confined to this case. My dislike of the RSPCA stems more from their political motives.

BUT this has taught me an awful lot about not believing everything you see or read.

And to this end, I can't believe that those pictures are his horses until there is proof, which, if if exists, will no doubt surface soon

Whoever owned that poor grey, and the deceased ones, should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[Star_Chaser]

Yes she has some of his in her yard now which are undergoing handling and three colts waiting to be gelded, she also has some other horses/ponys in which are either undergoing the same esp handling, she is also, over the next few months reducing him down to hopefully 8 (baring in mind a court date is due in april) and she has committed to keeping an eye on him, worming the mares he will have and helping him with his personal life and his activity's, sadly at 68 he his stuck in his ways but he does see the severity of the situation he is in however that was plain to me when i spoke to him yesterday, there is no disputing that, Michelle really does need our support she has helped a lot of owners and horses where no one else would, and it would now seem that the elderly land owner needs help and support as well, so i am rooting for a good out come for all parties and Michelle has my support as well as Clwyd.... such a sad sad situation for them all to be in to be honest.

Thank you. Will what is available be posted somewhere for interested parties at the end of the day the horses still need a home and that should be the priority no matter what all the hoo har is that is going on.

 

[Fii]

Whoever owned that poor grey, and the deceased ones, should be ashamed of themselves.

Absolutely!!
But if i posted those pics, or ones like them and said the horses belonged to you, you might be a tad miffed!
I am holding back on this until it has been proved they belonged to this man!

 

[paddi22]

the girl who posted them seems very confident to stand behind them.

I got blocked from the facebook site and i've never been blocked in my life from a site. i was entirely reasonable as i really believe the only way to debate stuff is to stay understated and logical. It's hilarious i was blocked. I had posted harmless questions, so now i really do believe the site is dodgy/misguided.

I feel sorry for any person with mental health issues, but turning him into some kind of fairytale character, and allowing him to keep horses he is unable for, is just completely wrong and no-one comes out of it properly.

 

[Patterdale]

Also lets not forget he's squatting on a farm owned by an 80yr old man who's allegedly been trying to move him off the land for years and has had no end of stress over it.
He is effectively fly grazing his horses there.

 

[sherry90]

Michelle has confirmed that she has checked the markings of the horse and it is not one a his. Not sure which picture she is referring to but I just thought I would let you all know.

 

[Patterdale]

But if she didn't know him then, how would she know the markings of all his countless horses??
Plus you couldn't see any markings on the poor dead ones...

Not convinced either way I'm afraid.

 

[FionaM12]

Michelle has confirmed that she has checked the markings of the horse and it is not one a his. Not sure which picture she is referring to but I just thought I would let you all know.

What? She's already said those horses (and there are more than one) would have been from before she knew him?

 

[FionaM12]

Michelle has confirmed that she has checked the markings of the horse and it is not one a his. Not sure which picture she is referring to but I just thought I would let you all know.

Where does she say this? I can't find it on the Fb page. I'm sorry but this doesn't make any sense. She didn't know him in 2008!

 

[Mongoose11]

The convicted neglect is nothing like the level of neglect shown within these photos. If the story is true and he was convicted over the neglect shown in them, as suggested by the person claiming to have taken them, then it would be very unlikely that he would have received such a light sentence in the supposed second neglect case that we saw televised. He would have been banned for life from keeping animals if the set of photos were indeed linked to him and the RSPCA were then involved. Am I the only one thinking even slightly outside the box here?

 

[scrunchie]

Where does she say this? I can't find it on the Fb page. I'm sorry but this doesn't make any sense. She didn't know him in 2008!

It's under Hannah Stansfield comment on the right hand side of the page.

 

[sherry90]

She says it under 'recent posts by others' scroll down to Hannah Stansfields' post about the 'Flicker picture' its under there. I think this is the chestnut picture not the grey with the leg by the way.

 

[FionaM12]

She says it under 'recent posts by others' scroll down to Hannah Stansfields' post about the 'Flicker picture' its under there. I think this is the chestnut picture not the grey with the leg by the way.

She is talking about the official RSPCA photo it seems. So she's claiming the RSPCA made that up. Serious allegation.

 

[Patterdale]

No billie you're not

 

[competitiondiva]

Billie from what I'd read he hasn't been sentenced yet, sentencing is in April?

 

[cronkmooar]

I'm truly shocked by those photos.

I have no idea if they are true representation of fact but the photos have been checked by an unconnected party on HG and they all were taken at the same time in May 2008 - this information is on photobucket for those that are technical and want to check.

They do not appear to be just random photos.

There have also been quite a few confirmations that this person did live where the girl is claiming he did until about three years ago.

I think in all probability that these photos are genuine and I am so glad that I checked on here before watching that program and deleted it without watching

 

[natalia]

For gods sake what is wrong with Michelle getting paid to take in these animals?!? £35 a week is nothing, they probably eat £25 of that in hay and then she has her staff and time costs, not to mention other costs of running the yard! The fact she's helping him At all is good in my book, rather than looking the other way. If those people who took the photos were bothered rather than calling the RSPCA they could have at least set the ball rolling and done the same thing. I know if I went there I wouldn't have left the property without seeing the grey mare PTS on the spot, even if I had to pay my own vet to do it. It's all very well people condemning the fact they are trying to get some money back for these animals but the fact of life is helping animals does cost money! If I were to take in an emergency horse as an RSPCA safe house I would be paid full livery rates by the charity. Which is considerably more than £35 a week! People on here need to get a grip and realise that. As for the whole situation in Wales, the aim is so I am told to get the herd down to ten older mares only, no stallion. Properly cared for there is no reason this shouldn't be perfectly ok.

 

[Mongoose11]

CD - am I am speaking hypothetically. Suggesting that if those pics were of his horses and representative of a previous case against him then there would be record of it.

 

[russianhorse]

I'll be honest, I have no idea what the truth is. I think it's crazy people are donating in all honesty - I think the set up they had on the programme was ideal as in Michelle taking them, selling them and using the money to cover her costs, for the remaining horses treatment and the left over monies to him. I found the programme sad, but he chose to live like that and was happy as he was. It just was incredibly sad about the way he has dealt with the loss of his daughter

I agree the programme was very one sided and aimed to pull heart strings which it did (although if I watched it for a second time, I expect I'd watch it with more of an objective view)

However the RSPCA trying to catch that pony was so awful that it didn't show them in a good light whatsoever. On thd flip side, I wasn't impressed on how Michelle and that other girl were yanking on that ponies tail

What I don't understand is a) why no one is confirming what the charges fof neglect were - was it just for not listening to the RSPCAs advice of not getting , down to an agreed number, and the pending charges went ahead (I.e lack of worming, teeth etc) - the programme certainly suggested that and the sentence he got was very light IMO.

B) why have the RSPCA stayed so silent? They are usually the first on front of publicity - and kets be honest, they woukd have been better saying something because the orogramme made it look like they are a bunch of numpties If those pictures are true was he not prosecuted for the cruelty of those poor horses? If so, why is no one in a position to confirm this? - and why was his recent sentance so light?

Usually I come across media of pictures with imaginable cruelty of owners that have been prosecuted, but this time it seems it is silent, and yet those pictures circulating are horrendous

Come on RSPCA stand up and say something, especially if people are now donating their head earned cash and making him into a hero ......

 

[brighteyes]

Michelle has confirmed that she has checked the markings of the horse and it is not one a his. Not sure which picture she is referring to but I just thought I would let you all know.

Have I missed where the date of the picture was taken can be found? Is this single horse photo supposed to be a recent seizure?

 

[brighteyes]

For gods sake what is wrong with Michelle getting paid to take in these animals?!? £35 a week is nothing, they probably eat £25 of that in hay and then she has her staff and time costs, not to mention other costs of running the yard! The fact she's helping him At all is good in my book, rather than looking the other way. If those people who took the photos were bothered rather than calling the RSPCA they could have at least set the ball rolling and done the same thing. I know if I went there I wouldn't have left the property without seeing the grey mare PTS on the spot, even if I had to pay my own vet to do it. It's all very well people condemning the fact they are trying to get some money back for these animals but the fact of life is helping animals does cost money! If I were to take in an emergency horse as an RSPCA safe house I would be paid full livery rates by the charity. Which is considerably more than £35 a week! People on here need to get a grip and realise that. As for the whole situation in Wales, the aim is so I am told to get the herd down to ten older mares only, no stallion. Properly cared for there is no reason this shouldn't be perfectly ok.

Nothing, except it should have been made perfectly clear she takes the 'decent' ones in, charges for all costs in relation to their rehab and gives anything, if there is anything left over from the sale to CD. I'm thinking she doesn't cut the colts as this would add to her costs and they wouldn't necessarily be recouped. I wouldn't do it for nothing and she just appeared weary of his endless overbreeding and therefore her neverending task. I am not sure how lucrative it is for her. The impression given was that it was a bit of nuisance.

 

[coralwings20]

Natalia - the point is is that Clwyd & Michelle are raking in the monetary donations as well as people buying these horses hay/hard feed/rugs and equipment so why does Michelle need to charge £35.00 pw per horse as she is selling approx 10 a month so thats approx £350.00 a week with no overheads other than electric/water/time?! The other thing that confuses me is that colts are still being sold such as a 4 year old TB that has never raced so why not geld before selling (with the vast amounts of money being dontated). Also, the documentary was filmed in the summer so some 6 months ago - Clwyd 6 months ago had cut down to around 22 horses but Debbie has stated that "he still has 22 horses" so selling 10 a month = 60 horses (more than he had to start) so can't anyone else see that this is a money making scheme that Michelle benefits from?

Do people not remember that poor foal that was killed becuase Clwyd decided to simply turn another 10 horses out with the already established herd (inc. colts/stallions) & Michelle just said "oh Clwyd". This image will haunt me but neither of them seemed shocked/upset?!

My heart goes out to Clwyd losing his precious daughter - he is still suffering and will do til his day comes. SS need to get involved and find Clwyd some sheltered accomodation as he has no heating/hot water and it's winter. Clwyd needs help with his hoarding but not the sort of help Michelle is offering - making money (alot of) out of a sad old man. The RSPCA need to be informed of the vast donations so that they can ensure that the money is spent of the "present" horses not ones that come from the markets to sell.

 

[CalllyH]

After the programme I nearly rang the feed shop they use to donate a couple of bales of hay or a bag of feed but having seen the Facebook page I am absolutely unconvinced we know the full picture and exactly what the real financial state is and will be 'unliking' the page today.

I am not prepared to donate to someone who won't help themselves. The Facebook page talks about getting his horse numbers down to 12 but to be perfectly honest why should he have any when he can't pay for them and it's not his land in the first place.

 

[lula]

Michelle Crowther
Regarding the horrible photographs posted on some forums -

The photographs and posts have been copied and sent to Clwyd's solicitor. It seems likely that they are evidence of a smear campaign.

just have to lol for a minute at how a man that apparently cant afford heating or hot water can afford a solicitor.


srsly though, what upsets me bout these fb groups is i notice the same fb posters crop up again and again whenever a new fb group page is set up over the latest horsey scandal/drama or the day and they believe what they're told religiously and dont seem to have any thought for themselves

some of them can get down right nasty if anyone dares so much as question them. Some (by far though, not all) are barely literate and seem to be the ones that shout the loudest.

i do from the bottom of my heart think that the admin's intentions are good and seeing people willing to help others i have utmost respect for.

What i dont like is the mob, sheep like mentality that seems to take over these groups where a lot of them blindly believe what they're told and tow the 'official admin line' with out question and shout down anyone that does as 'trolls' and 'troublemakers'.

some people really are sheep and love to find solidarity in a mob.

 

[brighteyes]

After the programme I nearly rang the feed shop they use to donate a couple of bales of hay or a bag of feed but having seen the Facebook page I am absolutely unconvinced we know the full picture and exactly what the real financial state is and will be 'unliking' the page today.

I am not prepared to donate to someone who won't help themselves. The Facebook page talks about getting his horse numbers down to 12 but to be perfectly honest why should he have any when he can't pay for them and it's not his land in the first place.

I'd give that opinion 10 seconds on the FB page. Max.