brighteyes
Pooh-Bah
I'll let you know if I get a letter. Taxpayer's money well wasted I'd say.
Is anyone else not entirely convinced by the Horse Hoarders plight?
- Thread starter djlynwood
- Start date
I'll let you know if I get a letter. Taxpayer's money well wasted I'd say.
guesstimation
Well-Known Member
His solicitor is no doubt funded by us on legal aid anyway, our taxes are donating to his cause ;-)
lula
Well-Known Member
i think this is an excellent summary.
lula
Well-Known Member
legal aid wont fund 'smear campaigns'
this is a complete bluff just to stop bad press being printed since you'd actually find out if the facts were correct or not (michelle said she hadn't spoken to clywd to confirm whether they were his horses or not) before you started wasting your time sending solicitors evidence to pursue a libel claim which isnt funded by legal aid either and i doubt Clywd would want to be paying for solicitors or michelle paying for it on his behalf do you?!
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Equilibrium Ireland
Well-Known Member
10 horses should be ok? Really? One older man who can't take care of himself. My husband and I do 7 plus working. Alright ours come in at night because I don't want them standing in crap. But even living out and dealing with things properly on a day to day basis is a bit of work. Clean water, not eating out of muck, access to free choice forage. Why do 10 horses have to suffer with less than minimal care? Or is that a number people don't mind paying for him to have. Keep the charity going and find more farriers and vets "with a heart".
As we've stated on various threads before. Horses are a choice and a luxury. Loving them isn't enough. If he really loved them he'd let them go. Maybe he'd keep 2 favorites and pay for them to stay in better conditions and visit them daily. That's loving horses.
I really don't care how he lives. His choice.
Terri
As we've stated on various threads before. Horses are a choice and a luxury. Loving them isn't enough. If he really loved them he'd let them go. Maybe he'd keep 2 favorites and pay for them to stay in better conditions and visit them daily. That's loving horses.
I really don't care how he lives. His choice.
Terri
CalllyH
Well-Known Member
These Facebook pages are ridiculous though. I got a slamming on the valegro one for saying that surely if this was endorsed by cal he would make a public statement and we don't know whose behind it.
Unsurprisingly Carl made a statement a few days later to say he wasn't supporting it.
They just grow mass hysteria, they should not be allowed by Facebook. They do more damage than good.
Unsurprisingly Carl made a statement a few days later to say he wasn't supporting it.
They just grow mass hysteria, they should not be allowed by Facebook. They do more damage than good.
guesstimation
Well-Known Member
I was thinking more if the RSPCA case against him funding wise not bringing a claim for libel
amandap
Well-Known Member
I tend to agree with this. Also, it appears he is squatting, what happens when he is evicted?
lula
Well-Known Member
ah, well you would probably be right then.
18 charges is a lot.
I'd like to know exactly what these charges are.
it is pretty difficult to get the RSPCA to do anything let alone stage an expensive prosecution (unless you're a fox hunter in DC"S constituency ofc
) so it would have to be pretty serious for them to go that far.MagicMelon
Well-Known Member
Sorry but I think its ridiculous people are donating stuff to this man. He is clearly a hoarder and hoarders often CHOOSE to live like this (he obviously has because he spends his money on the horses which he doesn't need to have). I knew a hoarder who lived just like him - we gave her numerous things, my family even paid to have a brand new bathroom put into her house, you know what she did - she used the bath to store coal in and refused to use the toilet (instead using a bucket...) - they often CHOOSE to live the way they do.
At the end of the day, he should not have horses. He cannot afford them and they are suffering as a result, that poor foal died because he was stupid enough to put 10 friends horses (including a stallion I remember) in the field. Its very sad that he lost his daughter but that is an entirely seperate issue, it does not excuse animals suffering. It doesn't matter how much he claims to love horses - he doesn't because he's killing them. And that lady, she seems to pretend to like horses when actually she didn't look at all bothered about that dead foal - I bet she's making money out of selling his ponies for him...
These people IMO do not deserve pity, they know what they're doing and its wrong. I hope the RSPCA remove every single one of his horses (and any other animals he might have) and he's banned for life from keeping them. If he so desperately loves horses then I'm pretty sure he could simply go and help that lady out with hers!
I haven't read all the posts, does anyone know what's happened since?
At the end of the day, he should not have horses. He cannot afford them and they are suffering as a result, that poor foal died because he was stupid enough to put 10 friends horses (including a stallion I remember) in the field. Its very sad that he lost his daughter but that is an entirely seperate issue, it does not excuse animals suffering. It doesn't matter how much he claims to love horses - he doesn't because he's killing them. And that lady, she seems to pretend to like horses when actually she didn't look at all bothered about that dead foal - I bet she's making money out of selling his ponies for him...
These people IMO do not deserve pity, they know what they're doing and its wrong. I hope the RSPCA remove every single one of his horses (and any other animals he might have) and he's banned for life from keeping them. If he so desperately loves horses then I'm pretty sure he could simply go and help that lady out with hers!
I haven't read all the posts, does anyone know what's happened since?
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smokey
Well-Known Member
Natalia - the point is is that Clwyd & Michelle are raking in the monetary donations as well as people buying these horses hay/hard feed/rugs and equipment so why does Michelle need to charge £35.00 pw per horse as she is selling approx 10 a month so thats approx £350.00 a week with no overheads other than electric/water/time?! The other thing that confuses me is that colts are still being sold such as a 4 year old TB that has never raced so why not geld before selling (with the vast amounts of money being dontated). Also, the documentary was filmed in the summer so some 6 months ago - Clwyd 6 months ago had cut down to around 22 horses but Debbie has stated that "he still has 22 horses" so selling 10 a month = 60 horses (more than he had to start) so can't anyone else see that this is a money making scheme that Michelle benefits from?
Do people not remember that poor foal that was killed becuase Clwyd decided to simply turn another 10 horses out with the already established herd (inc. colts/stallions) & Michelle just said "oh Clwyd". This image will haunt me but neither of them seemed shocked/upset?!
My heart goes out to Clwyd losing his precious daughter - he is still suffering and will do til his day comes. SS need to get involved and find Clwyd some sheltered accomodation as he has no heating/hot water and it's winter. Clwyd needs help with his hoarding but not the sort of help Michelle is offering - making money (alot of) out of a sad old man. The RSPCA need to be informed of the vast donations so that they can ensure that the money is spent of the "present" horses not ones that come from the markets to sell.[/QUOTy
This sums up my feelings perfectly
djlynwood
Well-Known Member
Is there anyone who is local to him? It would be interesting to hear what the locals think about him.
Also does anyone know if any more posts have been made by the cousin of the 80 yr old landowner?
Also does anyone know if any more posts have been made by the cousin of the 80 yr old landowner?
FionaM12
Well-Known Member
Moomin1
Well-Known Member
I agree.
djlynwood
Well-Known Member
I have just been deleted from the support Clwyd fb site. I have never had a post deleted before! I asked Debbie if she was the best person to be an administrator of the site given her previous history.
also was disgusted to see the cartoon depicting Clwyd surrounded by horses with the caption ' horses have feelings too. May the horse be with you'
also was disgusted to see the cartoon depicting Clwyd surrounded by horses with the caption ' horses have feelings too. May the horse be with you'
Queenbee
Well-Known Member
I keep thinking exactly the same thing
djlynwood
Well-Known Member
Just googled Margaret O Leary. This is the one who whos 10 horses he introduced to his own and resulted in the dead foal he wasnt arsed about.
Spiritedly
Well-Known Member
This has been posted on another page and is apparently an email to Kelly Marks. KM has given permission for it to be passed on as has the RSPCA officer.
"An IH student works for the RSPCA and let me know the following. Please understand this was a completely unofficial letter which the student in question has given me permission to reveal without the name of the writer."
Hi kelly. Unfortunately I'm not in a position to tell u about the prosecution or release photos as i believe it is still in process.
I can tell u that the horses seized were in a terrible state, the black pony in the documentary had such a high worm burden it was projectile scouring so it was extremely dehydrated, it was so infested with lice that it was suffering with anemia and it had very overgrown feet. The other 4 were suffering with the same problems with a couple also being very emaciated which then obviously leads to all sorts of problems.
The RSPCA will only remove animals in extreme cases and will in fact try to educate owners. The horses shown in the documentary were not bad enough to seize but obviously there were some welfare issues with feet, lice and worms. It stated in the documentary that Clwyd has six months to further reduce his numbers and resolve any welfare issues before any action is taken, which I think is fair.
I also see that a lot of people were not happy with the way the black pony was herded and loaded. Firstly i must point out that it was not darted with an immobilising drug but with a normal sedative and as a IH student myself I do agree that a round pen, more man power and the help of an RA would of been a lot less stressful for the pony but I do believe they did the best they could with the knowledge and tools they had.
Hopefully i have given u some helpful information and the RSPCA's view on IH is slowly moving in the right direction and in fact after i attended the untouched course and after having John Jones in to work with a pony the methods r now used by all staff when handling the wild ones. we now have a handy stick, use pressure and release, body language and even use the roping technique when catching the really wild ones. This is a great success!!! oh and not to forget the pony we brought to monty's demo last year. None of these things would ever of been considered a few years ago.
"An IH student works for the RSPCA and let me know the following. Please understand this was a completely unofficial letter which the student in question has given me permission to reveal without the name of the writer."
Hi kelly. Unfortunately I'm not in a position to tell u about the prosecution or release photos as i believe it is still in process.
I can tell u that the horses seized were in a terrible state, the black pony in the documentary had such a high worm burden it was projectile scouring so it was extremely dehydrated, it was so infested with lice that it was suffering with anemia and it had very overgrown feet. The other 4 were suffering with the same problems with a couple also being very emaciated which then obviously leads to all sorts of problems.
The RSPCA will only remove animals in extreme cases and will in fact try to educate owners. The horses shown in the documentary were not bad enough to seize but obviously there were some welfare issues with feet, lice and worms. It stated in the documentary that Clwyd has six months to further reduce his numbers and resolve any welfare issues before any action is taken, which I think is fair.
I also see that a lot of people were not happy with the way the black pony was herded and loaded. Firstly i must point out that it was not darted with an immobilising drug but with a normal sedative and as a IH student myself I do agree that a round pen, more man power and the help of an RA would of been a lot less stressful for the pony but I do believe they did the best they could with the knowledge and tools they had.
Hopefully i have given u some helpful information and the RSPCA's view on IH is slowly moving in the right direction and in fact after i attended the untouched course and after having John Jones in to work with a pony the methods r now used by all staff when handling the wild ones. we now have a handy stick, use pressure and release, body language and even use the roping technique when catching the really wild ones. This is a great success!!! oh and not to forget the pony we brought to monty's demo last year. None of these things would ever of been considered a few years ago.
sherry90
Well-Known Member
Ok so I have had a PM from Michelle and a friend request after I messaged her to query why I was banned from the page. I won't post it all incase she comes on here and links me to my fb profile (I like to be under the radar on here!)
She again confirmed that she is unable to confirm if the pictures were of Clwyds horses and stated that if they were she would not condone or defend them. Having looked back on the support page and her personal page I am disturbed and can only sit and shake my head. I do wonder wha this world is coming to. Social media is a fabulous tool but it doesn't half cause some problems sometimes. It's a platform of information but it breeds like wild fire and I'm sure everyone's main concern is the horses I hope it ends well but I fear it won't. I like to be, rightly or wrongly, ignorant of these sorts of goings on. However, I have found myself concerned and worried at the state of not only these horses but those who are suffering similar fates across the UK
She again confirmed that she is unable to confirm if the pictures were of Clwyds horses and stated that if they were she would not condone or defend them. Having looked back on the support page and her personal page I am disturbed and can only sit and shake my head. I do wonder wha this world is coming to. Social media is a fabulous tool but it doesn't half cause some problems sometimes. It's a platform of information but it breeds like wild fire and I'm sure everyone's main concern is the horses
I hope it ends well but I fear it won't. I like to be, rightly or wrongly, ignorant of these sorts of goings on. However, I have found myself concerned and worried at the state of not only these horses but those who are suffering similar fates across the UK djlynwood
Well-Known Member
Does Clwyd have any family? Is he completly on his own, are there other sons and daughters and what about an ex wife/partner....where are they?
russianhorse
Well-Known Member
Djlynwood - I think he must have a son (as programme states he had 2 children and an ex-wife, but that he lost his only daughter)
No mention at all after that to where they are or whether he has a relationship with his son, but I assume not :/
No mention at all after that to where they are or whether he has a relationship with his son, but I assume not :/
ester
Not slacking multitasking
Somewhere reported that he had 2 other estranged children.
djlynwood
Well-Known Member
Has anyone looked at the Jaden Cornelious website that takes the paypal donations.
In the meet the team section, Debbie De St Croix is a trustee member and that mad monk man is a patron of it.
In the meet the team section, Debbie De St Croix is a trustee member and that mad monk man is a patron of it.
cronkmooar
Well-Known Member
They look like a right bunch of freaks
djlynwood
Well-Known Member
Thats what I thought but was too polite to say.
cronkmooar
Well-Known Member
djlynwood
Well-Known Member
Are you implying I am rude?
ha no, didnt mean it like that.
OWLIE185
Well-Known Member
I think one has to be realistic about this entire situation that the entire priority is the welfare of the horses concerned.
The gentleman concerned is 80 years old and at that age he would find it difficult to look after and manage just one horse properly let alone the herd he appears to have.
Just to poo pick his fields would take at least a days work for one person and at his age it would be an impossible task.
Unfortunately there are people out there that collect animals and it is clearly a mental condition which needs to be diagnosed and named so that legislation can be put in place. One finds that with some of the studs the owners do not know when to run them down and just continue without the ability to look after the animals any more.
One must also remember that his knowledge (if he had any) of equine management and veterinary care would be well outdated so he would have no concept of worming etc.
In Australia there is legislation which prevents people from owning more that a specified number of animals without a licence and regular audits and I would suggest that this is what is needed here.
The gentleman concerned is 80 years old and at that age he would find it difficult to look after and manage just one horse properly let alone the herd he appears to have.
Just to poo pick his fields would take at least a days work for one person and at his age it would be an impossible task.
Unfortunately there are people out there that collect animals and it is clearly a mental condition which needs to be diagnosed and named so that legislation can be put in place. One finds that with some of the studs the owners do not know when to run them down and just continue without the ability to look after the animals any more.
One must also remember that his knowledge (if he had any) of equine management and veterinary care would be well outdated so he would have no concept of worming etc.
In Australia there is legislation which prevents people from owning more that a specified number of animals without a licence and regular audits and I would suggest that this is what is needed here.
cronkmooar
Well-Known Member
Didn't think for one moment you did
I just googled that woman and the monk (studying for an advanced tax exam and I am stuck so anything to divert me!) and found the Jersey womans farm saga - another one of those trustee/team/patron people was involved with that as well.
I have not been keeping up with the donation side of this situation - but it all seems very strange and I wonder what is going on with these peoples involvment
Also just out of interest - does anyone know if the monk managed to raise £1m to turn the other farm into a retreat and did he let the animals stay ?
cronkmooar
Well-Known Member
Also the boy/girl group b-Yond seems to have totally passed me by - were they really famous?