Is anyone else not entirely convinced by the Horse Hoarders plight?

[hairycob]

Sure the guy needs help - help to realise he must get rid of & mustn't replace his horses. Never, for god's sake to keep them. I'm still not convinced that prosecution is the right thing simply because I don't think it will change him, just use up money that could be put to use gelding/moving on etc his & other horses. The money would be spent then a short while later he would have a pile of horses somewhere. Mentally ill or just messed up in his head - I don't know.
Like I said on the other thread, he reminds me of my uncle. If he had been charged with vagrancy it wouldn't have made one iota of difference for his decisions to sleep rough. But just because it was his choice it doesn't mean it's what made him happy. My uncle was a deeply unhappy man & that's what drove him to his choices. I know what was behind his deep unhappiness, but it's a private family matter I'm not prepared to discuss on a forum. I know the same situation has affected all those involved deeply & lastingly but in different ways. If he had had outside support as a child/young man maybe things would have been different. All I know is by the time he was offered outside support it was too late & he was too ingrained in his habits to want to change - in truth he was scared of change & scared of living a "normal" life.
Maybe that's what has happened to this guy, maybe not. But I can't see that helping him keep this vast herd will help him. Sadly I also don't know after all this time what will & suspect the best thing in the end would be for him to be allowed to live out his life in his squalour, possibly with some contact with horses or closely monitored ownership of 1 or 2 geldings.

 

[competitiondiva]

What people seem to forget, or not know, is that if Clwyd is refusing to alter the situation, it is a only a court that can enforce those changes. Therefore a prosecution is the only solution. The fact he was given 2 warning notices and a time extension from the RSPCA, smacks to me that this is the situation.

 

[djlynwood]

Someone mentioned in an earlier post about dead horses being found in his previous residence. Was anything done about this?

 

[Patterdale]

Just seen the Facebook page.

Good Lord!

 

[lula]

Just seen the Facebook page.

Good Lord!

Clwyd for Prime Minister!

 

[Patterdale]

'We need to get this man some land of his own'



Aye, and I could do with a few more acres while they're at it! I only keep as many horses as I can afford though, so I'm probably not eligible.

After reading Michelle's comments she has gone up a bit in my estimation though. She's not getting into any personal or heated arguments that I can see, and is admitting the horses were poor and needed to be taken away.

 

[hairycob]

Just delved into the facebook page. Wow - I never realised there were so many idiots in the world! How can they possibly see some of the suggestions as a good idea. I suspect all sorts of dodgy people will be sitting reading that & working out how to make a quick buck out of them. I can also see the old boy getting a bit peed off with the interference.
Someone made the point that probably the only way the RSPCA can get some of the horses away is by prosecuting & I guess that is fair comment but it is a shame they have to use resources that way.

 

[Moomin1]

'We need to get this man some land of his own'



Aye, and I could do with a few more acres while they're at it! I only keep as many horses as I can afford though, so I'm probably not eligible.

After reading Michelle's comments she has gone up a bit in my estimation though. She's not getting into any personal or heated arguments that I can see, and is admitting the horses were poor and needed to be taken away.

Yes and seems her 'supporters' appear to be blatently ignoring that and still trying to deny that the horse was his or in bad condition!

Interestingly, it would appear Michelle had a 'helper' who sadly died in a tragic accident last year. This girl apparently used to sell a lot of horses at Beeston and 'stand up on them' in the ring.

 

[fburton]

So how would people like to see this situation resolve, ideally? Moomin1?

 

[Patterdale]

Do feel a bit sorry for Clwyd in all this. I very much doubt it was his idea to set up a Facebook page....

 

[Patterdale]

Do feel a bit sorry for Clwyd in all this. I very much doubt it was his idea to set up a Facebook page....and have his life made very public

 

[Moomin1]

So how would people like to see this situation resolve, ideally? Moomin1?

You have asked me this before I think fburton.

I think the actions of the RSPCA were proportionate and just, and the only option left.

Ideally, I don't think any person who has been found guilty of causing unnecessary suffering should be in possession of any animal. Harsh on him maybe, but I don't for one second believe he was that fussed about them anyway, given the fact the documentary itself said that he 'was disgruntled that the proceeds of the sales were going to have to be spent on wormers etc for the remaining ones'. I can't believe that people seem to have clouded over that bit!

However, if that is not going to happen then I would like to see Clwyd recieve some psychological help, have the majority of horses removed from him, and a close eye kept on him to ensure he doesn't get any more and the ball start rolling again. I also have concerns about the way Michelle is running the show, taking on more horses than she herself appears to be able to afford or cope with, asking random strangers to come and help out (bearing in mind it appears one of her previous helpers used to sell loads of horses through Beeston and was known for 'standing up on their backs' in the ring.) and donate money to pay for a man to keep horses when he has already caused suffering. Plus, donating cookers etc because they say he can't afford to live, yet he said he was spending £100 per week on his horses from his pension. Well, he doesn't have as many horses now, and also, it is quite frankly his look out if he has chosen to live that way and have the horses instead of looking after himself. Nobody, however much they donate etc etc, is going to do any good for him in the long run, because it is just making it a damn site easier for him to go out and get more and more. Plus, the fact that Michelle was or is charging him £35 per week livery, but then asking for donations to help out, to me, is hardly 'charitable' on her behalf. More of a business, laced with glory.

 

[Patterdale]

I actually agree with you (for once! ) moomin.
There isn't really a resolution for this that will leave all parties happy IMO.

But the hype and donations etc going on now doesn't sit v well with me.

 

[fburton]

You have asked me this before I think fburton.

I did, but this is the first time you've actually said what you would like to see happen in the future. Thank you.

 

[FionaM12]

Claudia, you may be right but can you back that up with more information? People need some evidence of what you say, and what your connection with the case is before accepting your remarks as valid.

 

[FionaM12]

...and now my post looks insane as Claudia has disappeared without a trace...

 

[WelshD]

Pats Fiona on the shoulder... There there did your imaginary friend go home?....

It's ok, I saw it too

Just as well it's gone, it could have got the thread pulled

 

[Star_Chaser]

I don't think it is really anyone else's business or decision what happens next that is up to Clywd himself. Having said that though he is getting on and given his lifestyle downsizing a bit more than he has would be advisable.

In all honesty I would rather give my cash to John Dunlop he was very kind to me years ago sad to see him go into liquidation.

 

[Patterdale]

Got an imaginary friend, Bill?








Only joking.......I saw it too!

 

[djlynwood]

Was the post by Claudia with reference to horses at a previous residence?

 

[FionaM12]

Was the post by Claudia with reference to horses at a previous residence?

Not sure it mentioned that, but it allegations re Michelle. Best not repeated as I might vanish like Claudia did!

 

[djlynwood]

Ah right, missed that one.

 

[coralwings20]

i have asked for details of the accountant in charge of the huge amount of donations rec'vd & been accused of being ignorant & nasty?! so, does anyone know who is registering the donation money & what it's being spent on? does clwyd or michelle rec the money? does it all go on the horses? where does the sale money go & how comes (if he is not breeding/collecting anymore) does he mantain to sell so many monthly as months ago he got the numbers down to 20?!

i have no problem with donating but in a legit way

 

[Patterdale]

I think, coralwings, that they may be the million dollar questions.......

 

[Moomin1]

It appears any slight thing you say which may infer suspicion or disagreement with the supporters of this cause is responded to with an accusation of being nasty, vindictive or a troll on fb!

 

[rascal]

You have asked me this before I think fburton.

I think the actions of the RSPCA were proportionate and just, and the only option left.

Ideally, I don't think any person who has been found guilty of causing unnecessary suffering should be in possession of any animal. Harsh on him maybe, but I don't for one second believe he was that fussed about them anyway, given the fact the documentary itself said that he 'was disgruntled that the proceeds of the sales were going to have to be spent on wormers etc for the remaining ones'. I can't believe that people seem to have clouded over that bit!

However, if that is not going to happen then I would like to see Clwyd recieve some psychological help, have the majority of horses removed from him, and a close eye kept on him to ensure he doesn't get any more and the ball start rolling again. I also have concerns about the way Michelle is running the show, taking on more horses than she herself appears to be able to afford or cope with, asking random strangers to come and help out (bearing in mind it appears one of her previous helpers used to sell loads of horses through Beeston and was known for 'standing up on their backs' in the ring.) and donate money to pay for a man to keep horses when he has already caused suffering. Plus, donating cookers etc because they say he can't afford to live, yet he said he was spending £100 per week on his horses from his pension. Well, he doesn't have as many horses now, and also, it is quite frankly his look out if he has chosen to live that way and have the horses instead of looking after himself. Nobody, however much they donate etc etc, is going to do any good for him in the long run, because it is just making it a damn site easier for him to go out and get more and more. Plus, the fact that Michelle was or is charging him £35 per week livery, but then asking for donations to help out, to me, is hardly 'charitable' on her behalf. More of a business, laced with glory.

I agree with this, he didnt want the money spent on the remaining horses, and didnt seem very interested in them. This is a mess of his own making and it should be him who has the cost of putting things right.
The other horses should be removed, though maybe get someone who knows how to handle a horse to do it, as is normal for the rspca they made a ROYAL MESS OF IT!!

 

[coralwings20]

exactly so im going to leave it. just feel for all the people that are donating to him when such registered charities like ERR are calling out for legit donations.

 

[coralwings20]

not ERR i meant EMW :-\

 

[debbie do dar]

i have asked for details of the accountant in charge of the huge amount of donations rec'vd & been accused of being ignorant & nasty?! so, does anyone know who is registering the donation money & what it's being spent on? does clwyd or michelle rec the money? does it all go on the horses? where does the sale money go & how comes (if he is not breeding/collecting anymore) does he mantain to sell so many monthly as months ago he got the numbers down to 20?!

i have no problem with donating but in a legit way

On which post/page did you ask? because i am admin on the page and i cant see where you have posted???????????????? enlighten me please? am flabbergasted at the amount of untruths many of you have been spouting on this thread, at no point on the support page have any of the admins or Michelle herself been untruthful if its been asked we respond (admitted i have made fun of H&H but who dosent!) and we have tried to direct anyone who wants to enquire about money horses shoe size to the right people. Am not going to start a debate with anyone but i can assure anyone who asks that everything that can possibly be done is being done to assist Clwyd and his horses, the right people are in place and do you no what if someone wants to send him a pair of wellies and a packet of biscuits then thats up to them! and also can i remind you all that being personal about Michelle is the lowest of the low, by all means have an adult debate about the program and its contact but leave the personal insults to the kids! NOW some one please point me in the direction where you were you have been accused of being ignorant & nasty....... Debbie

 

[FionaM12]

People have been carried away by an emotional reaction engineered by a manipulative piece of filming, IMO. There's a sort of mob mentality on the Fb page where no-one can post anything which even asks a question without being shouted down.

They're all blinded by their sentimental idea of who Clwyd is, which is nothing to do with the real man. Someone on there has said it will all evaporate when the next Fb story takes their attention, and that's possibly so.

I just hope it ends well for the horses, and for Clwyd himself. Somebody on this thread said what he chooses to do is his business. As regards himself, that's true of course. But when a man is found guilty of cruelty to animals surely the fate of any in his care is of public concern?