Cedars
Well-Known Member
Watching animal 24/7 and the RSPCA keep calling them Alsatians?!
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Is it Alsatian or GS?
- Thread starter Cedars
- Start date
showjumpinglover
Well-Known Member
I've always been led to believe that Alsations are short haired and GSDs are long haired.
(knowing my luck i'm totally wrong there
)
(knowing my luck i'm totally wrong there
)Murphy88
Well-Known Member
I am watching too, it is really p***ing me off - they are german shepherds, not alsations! But then I don't know what I expect really, given in one episode earlier in the week an RSPCA inspector said incredulously that a dog was 'quite friendly for an alsation'. I would of thought that an RSPCA inspector would know better than to make such a sweeping statement.
ETS SJL - GSD is the correct term for all, I think alsation was only introduced during the war when we didn't like the nasty germans.
ETS SJL - GSD is the correct term for all, I think alsation was only introduced during the war when we didn't like the nasty germans.
Lady La La
Well-Known Member
They are the one and the same.
and just incase they are not, im off to hide from CC and MM. Toodaloo.
and just incase they are not, im off to hide from CC and MM. Toodaloo.
showjumpinglover
Well-Known Member
I stand corrected then. Though I have always called them GSDs
Cedars
Well-Known Member
Thank you! Shall wait for the others to confirm!
soloabe
Well-Known Member
Its German shepherd dog.
The other was just what they were called during the war when no one wanted nasty German dogs.
The other was just what they were called during the war when no one wanted nasty German dogs.
3Beasties
Well-Known Member
Sandstone1
Well-Known Member
The correct term is German Shepherd dogs or GSD.
brucethegypsycob
Well-Known Member
Its German shepherd dog. However there is a bit of history about the names. GSD`S were originally smallish and short haired with a slightly slanting body.
Then along came the war (cant remember whether it was ww1 or ww2) ; the English got a bit sniffy about calling them German shepherds so , they started breeding them bigger and called them Alsation Dogs. Somewhere along the line they were bred to produce a long haired version. I`m not up to date with the breed standard but long haired ones and white were considered faults and therefore undesirable.
Anyway, its a bit like the diference between show spinger spaniels and working springer spaniels - same breed just different size.
Then along came the war (cant remember whether it was ww1 or ww2) ; the English got a bit sniffy about calling them German shepherds so , they started breeding them bigger and called them Alsation Dogs. Somewhere along the line they were bred to produce a long haired version. I`m not up to date with the breed standard but long haired ones and white were considered faults and therefore undesirable.
Anyway, its a bit like the diference between show spinger spaniels and working springer spaniels - same breed just different size.
Dobiegirl
Well-Known Member
I noticed this also on yesterdays animal 24/7, did anyone see itwith the poor GS called Hobo who was a walking skeleton and covered in mange.
I dont think Ive ever seen anything like it, it was absoloutley horrendous thankfully he recovered and found a good home.
I dont think Ive ever seen anything like it, it was absoloutley horrendous thankfully he recovered and found a good home.
MurphysMinder
Well-Known Member
Murphy88 it is (or was) AlsatiAn not ion, have you learned nothing! Oh and I saw that earlier episode when he said it was quite friendly for an "alsatian" its a wonder you didn't hear me screaming at the tv up there.
Yes they are now German shepherd dogs, as said above Alsatian was only introduced after the war. In the 70s the kennel club agreed to change the name to German Shepherd Dog (alsatian), and very recently they have at long last dropped the alsatian bit completely. Long coats and white used to be considered a disqualifying fault, but there are actually special classes at some shows for them now. I don't actually think the english started breeding them bigger , the changes to the breed came about in Germany, and it is still the German breed standard that most breeders over here consider as the blueprint.
SJ lover, you aren't the only one to think that about the coat differences don't worry. I still occasionally get people telling me that mine are alsatians because they are normal coated.
Yes they are now German shepherd dogs, as said above Alsatian was only introduced after the war. In the 70s the kennel club agreed to change the name to German Shepherd Dog (alsatian), and very recently they have at long last dropped the alsatian bit completely. Long coats and white used to be considered a disqualifying fault, but there are actually special classes at some shows for them now. I don't actually think the english started breeding them bigger , the changes to the breed came about in Germany, and it is still the German breed standard that most breeders over here consider as the blueprint.
SJ lover, you aren't the only one to think that about the coat differences don't worry. I still occasionally get people telling me that mine are alsatians because they are normal coated.
Murphy88
Well-Known Member
I was shouting at the telly too. I think the others think I'm silly because I get so annoyed about them called alsatians. I have tried to convince them that once they are small animal vets if they say alsatian to a proper GSD person then they will cause mortal offence!
I should stop watching animal 24/7 really, all we do is complain about the RSPCA and argue with their veterinary diagnoses, but it is the only tv that we can count as revision.
CorvusCorax
Justified & Ancient
The true name of the breed has and always will be Deutsche Schäferhunde, German Shepherd Dog, first registered in Germany in 1899 by Captain Max von Stephanitz.
As before, they are the same breed and the Alsatian Wolf Dog name was introduced because of anti-German feeling - it was British officers who actually brought them to the UK after noticing their usefulness/all round talents.
The long coat is a genetic fluke and was never 'bred for' or 'invented' it just happened.
There are very tight coats and plush coats and there always have been, as part of the 'correct' short coat.
Some people breed for the long coat (don't agree with this, there is often no undercoat which renders this working breed not waterproof!) and the other genetic faults like white, blue, liver.
The KC is dropping the Alsatian name after years of lobbying, thank goodness.
But Bruce, you do have one good point, they are getting far, far too big in my opinion, and I include my own dog when I say that. I much prefer medium size/strength, short and compact types, and the 'old fashioned, big boned' thing really gets on my wick - that was a modern invention!!!
As before, they are the same breed and the Alsatian Wolf Dog name was introduced because of anti-German feeling - it was British officers who actually brought them to the UK after noticing their usefulness/all round talents.
The long coat is a genetic fluke and was never 'bred for' or 'invented' it just happened.
There are very tight coats and plush coats and there always have been, as part of the 'correct' short coat.
Some people breed for the long coat (don't agree with this, there is often no undercoat which renders this working breed not waterproof!) and the other genetic faults like white, blue, liver.
The KC is dropping the Alsatian name after years of lobbying, thank goodness.
But Bruce, you do have one good point, they are getting far, far too big in my opinion, and I include my own dog when I say that. I much prefer medium size/strength, short and compact types, and the 'old fashioned, big boned' thing really gets on my wick - that was a modern invention!!!
samerlin
Well-Known Member
think they got the name alsatian from the area that they originally came from Alsas(sp) They were called german shepherd and when Britian went to war with germany Britain could no longer call them german shepherd cause anything german was taboo. But they are one and the same. Correct me if I am wrong but that is what I have always been led to believe
camilla4
Well-Known Member
The name Alsation does indeed come from Alsace, which was disputed territory for a long time - it has alternately belonged to Germany and to France. I guess once it was finally reclaimed by France, it seemed inappropriate for a German breed?!!
CorvusCorax
Justified & Ancient
Some of us never deemed it appropriate, as it was obviously so political, my mother's kennel was registered in 1972, I think and it was always 'L' German Shepherds, not 'L' Alsatians.
When she was growing up, she would have got a cuff around the ear for mentioning anything German. My Nan was DELIGHTED when she came home at fifteen, announcing she had a penpal from Berlin, then a year later asked for an Alsayshun pup for doing well in her exams
and it was always 'L' German Shepherds, not 'L' Alsatians.When she was growing up, she would have got a cuff around the ear for mentioning anything German. My Nan was DELIGHTED when she came home at fifteen, announcing she had a penpal from Berlin, then a year later asked for an Alsayshun pup for doing well in her exams
9tails
Well-Known Member
My sister had a black long haired GSD, now sadly deceased. Is this also a genetic fault?
CorvusCorax
Justified & Ancient
The coat yes, the colour, no. I've got one too it's a common fault but as MM says, the SV have just introduced a separate class for them, as generally, the long coats do have excellent conformation, weirdly!
It's a fault because most long coats do not have an undercoat, which is part of the breed standard and no undercoat means that the dog is not waterproof, so not ideal for a day out working.
Correct colours are black and brown (or gold, tan or red as we would say in English) grey and brown (sable, as we would say in English, again, lots of variations, grey sable, red sable, gold sable) black and bi-colour (black with brown feet, not to be confused with dark black and gold, true bi-colours have striping on the toes and hocks).
White, liver, blue, no black pigment, are all faults, cannot be shown and in an ideal world should not be bred from (IMO!!!).
it's a common fault but as MM says, the SV have just introduced a separate class for them, as generally, the long coats do have excellent conformation, weirdly!It's a fault because most long coats do not have an undercoat, which is part of the breed standard and no undercoat means that the dog is not waterproof, so not ideal for a day out working.
Correct colours are black and brown (or gold, tan or red as we would say in English) grey and brown (sable, as we would say in English, again, lots of variations, grey sable, red sable, gold sable) black and bi-colour (black with brown feet, not to be confused with dark black and gold, true bi-colours have striping on the toes and hocks).
White, liver, blue, no black pigment, are all faults, cannot be shown and in an ideal world should not be bred from (IMO!!!).
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Alec Swan
Well-Known Member
I suppose that it depends upon how old you are!! For me, they were always Alsatians, but in deference to those who are younger, they've now become GSDs!
As a servant of man, I can't think of a more utilised, or successful breed of dog, and unlike so many, they continue to flourish.
Alec.
As a servant of man, I can't think of a more utilised, or successful breed of dog, and unlike so many, they continue to flourish.
Alec.
CorvusCorax
Justified & Ancient
They only 'became' GSDs in the UK, they'd been registered with that name in their country of origin and everywhere else since 1899 - it's the only place in the world which refers to them as Alsatians! And very Anglicised places like Victoria in Canada, where I once saw an 'Alsatian' figurine
My mother is 60 and she has been railing against the use of that name since she was a girl
My mother is 60 and she has been railing against the use of that name since she was a girl
MurphysMinder
Well-Known Member
My late mum would have been 90 this year. She had GSDs from the late 40s and although she did call them alsatians then, from the 60s on she used to lecture everyone that the correct name was GSD.
severnmiles
Well-Known Member
German Shepherd to me...
CorvusCorax
Justified & Ancient
Allo you!
Paint Me Proud
Well-Known Member
there is a lady that lives around the corner who breeds White GSDs - she holds a GSD rally show each year with special classes for white dogs and long coated dogs.
GingerCat
Well-Known Member
It's actually Deutscher Schäferhund *smug grin*
They were also named as 'German Wolf Dogs' at some point in their history too
They are a breed that my OH is passionate about.
They were also named as 'German Wolf Dogs' at some point in their history too
They are a breed that my OH is passionate about.
MurphysMinder
Well-Known Member
CC beat you on the deutsche shaferhunde bit.
You must definitely get your OH enrolled in the GSD mafia, do you have a shepherd, if so pictures are obligatory.
You must definitely get your OH enrolled in the GSD mafia, do you have a shepherd, if so pictures are obligatory.
GingerCat
Well-Known Member
CC beat you on the deutsche shaferhunde bit.
You must definitely get your OH enrolled in the GSD mafia, do you have a shepherd, if so pictures are obligatory.
Lol missed that post.
No we don't have a Shepherd, bit of a difference of opinion in our household when choosing our dog...votes were GSD - husband, ESS - Me, Rottie - daughter, a new computer - son
In the end, due to a unplanned mating of my friend's dogs, we ended up with Alice, a Border terrier x JRT ...and we wouldn't swap her for the world
Megibo
Well-Known Member
I always thought they were the same dog
we had two and just called them German Sheperds where my friend refers to her cross as an Alsatian cross Ridgeback
we had two and just called them German Sheperds where my friend refers to her cross as an Alsatian cross Ridgeback
MurphysMinder
Well-Known Member
They are tazhazzamoose, thats the point, just that the correct name now is german shepherd.