I'm Dun
Well-Known Member
You best let the researchers know then so they can rewrite their papers based on your comprehensive study of one.
I never understand why people insist their opinion trumps verified and proven research.
Is there (or should there be) a ceiling weight to horse riding
- Thread starter abbijay
- Start date
You best let the researchers know then so they can rewrite their papers based on your comprehensive study of one.
I never understand why people insist their opinion trumps verified and proven research.
Sussexbythesea
Well-Known Member
my husband is overweight.
he is statistically more likely to die younger based on his BMI.
Or his shape (round in the middle)
I love him very much and would much rather have him healthy and alive for years to come rather than in a box early because he couldn’t stop eating crisps. I will absolutely not pander to the notion that all are healthy no matter weight or shape. He knows he is overweight and he is not going to change by me being an enabler.
no ones weight is the business of anyone else at all. Unless you are going to partake in a sport where it really does matter and it becomes both an ethical and a welfare issue.
I’m personally glad to see they are starting to clamp down on obese horses and too big adult riding in the warm up amongst the showing community.
there is uproar when folks use electric Spurs, inhumane bits, anything to the discomfort of the horse which we are CONSTANTLY trying to reduce with well fitting saddles, special anatomical bridles, supplements, massages, better training techniques etc
I don’t see how this is any different.
sorry ??
No one (I don’t think) is saying it’s healthy to be overweight and certainly not grossly so, nor are they saying horses should put up and shut up and carry excess amounts of weight either. I know I’m certainly not saying that and neither am I personally grossly overweight so I’m not trying to justify it for myself either I’m less than the 15% for both of my horses.
However you and others cannot seem to distinguish between someone being overweight for their body type and being overweight for a horse to carry. The OPs question was about weight. Weight is not synonymous with fat.
There have also been references from some posters that liken (mostly) leisure riding to a “sport”. Bimbling around the woods four times a week as most leisure horses do is hardly the same as completing a four star event and likewise most of the general population partaking in lower level sport could hardly be considered “athletes”.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Because tbh I trust professionals who where looking after me at that time .
and in fact all that matters to me is me it’s me I have to work at keeping a healthy weight .
No one elses basal metabolic rate will help me .
What I learned from working with professionals is that if you take in less calories than you need and you will lose weight, take in a lot less than you need and you will lose weight quickly .
When your losing weight on a restricted intake say 800 calories you have to look after your metabolism when you are awake never let it slow eating 800 calories in four meals works better than doing 400 calories twice .
For years I allowed myself to be the hapless victim of my eating habits not now I am dieting now because I did fall off the wagon when my parents became unwell but I can’t believe how easy it is to diet now I have the right tools .
sbloom
Well-Known Member
Before the whisper comes compensatory gait, and the latter WILL lead to problems, usually down the line. And these problems look like one-off injuries, as per Gillian Higgins the "vast majority" of injuries are the end result of repetitive strain.
Stress is more likely to kill him before his weight alone. He is better happy and unstressed than trying to lose weight in a stressful way, have a look at some more of rebelfit's posts, the unhealthiness of being overweight is in no way as simple, or so much worse than anything else, as you might imply. Way too much press saying that obesity is a massive killer.
In our world it IS though a welfare issue for the horse. But shouting at overweight riders hasn't worked so far, there's plenty of evidence to show it makes things worse if anything (as does most normal dieting, leading to long term weight gain), so we need to change how we tackle this.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
The heavier you are the harder you hit the ground the law of momentum is not kind to heavier people .
To go back to initial question I will stick my neck out and say around 18 stone .
To go back to initial question I will stick my neck out and say around 18 stone .
mini_b
Well-Known Member
he isn’t happy though that’s the kicker.
he has low self esteem, poor body image problems, feels absolutely shit and knackered all the time.
he comfort eats because of the above things.
when he does go through brief periods of getting his weight at a sensible level he is much more interested in the world around him, getting out and about, sleeps better etc.
He has a stressful job a...he comfort eats. So difficult to maintain.
So yes stress may well kill him!
but I digress.
OP did originally ask about weight not obesity.
sbloom
Well-Known Member
He needs to find a way to be happy (or rather, with happiness being a fairly meaningless and unhelpful pursuit, of having good mental health), and going on a diet, or being pestered to go on one, is not going to make him happy. He needs to find a different job, or find a way to set boundaries or to mentally manage what he does. As long as he does not do that he will feel a fleeting happiness because he's lost weight, but the old stresses and demons return.
Poor body image is never helped by talking about dieting, or commenting on food choices, or that he might not be around in 30 years.
This is not just me spouting, there is SO much evidence of this and, as I say, tons on that FB page. And I live with someone who is VERY similar. He yoyos constantly but I try never to make an issue of it but try and help with doing things that he enjoys, having a better life without regards to his weight. I am the same with sleep, I need to live a really great life, not think that I'll have a really great life when I sort my insomnia out.
Look through the other end of the telescope.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Comfort eating is complicated and looking in from the outside it’s often incomprehensible why people self sabotage
I have two suggestions one is for him to see a CBT who works with this issue ( most will ) and the other is to get him to try Noom with is a weight loss programme with making you think about things a key part of what it offers .
I never thought I would learn to manage my issues but I have .
I am using noom now and it is helping me and fits easily into my life .
mini_b
Well-Known Member
he enjoys his job; it is stressful by the nature of what it is.
thank you for your assumptions on what may or may have not been said. Appreciate the insight.
Winters100
Well-Known Member
I don't get this though because, just the same as we know that our horses are more at risk of disease and injury if they are over or underweight, the reality is that the same goes for humans. Does the writer want this somehow hidden from people?
To me this is part of the big problem with weight. It is somehow a taboo subject, I have even heard a parent lament that her child is overweight, but say that she did not want to mention it in case of upsetting them. I find this a bit absurd, I would certainly not comment on someone's weight outside of the family, but if it was my partner, child or other family member who was gaining I would raise it, and would find out how I could support them in tackling it. There is no shame in being outside of a healthy weight range, but there are health implications, and in some cases an impact upon happiness. Unless we are talking about an adult who is aware of the risks and is absolutely happy how they are then I don't think that ignoring the issue is the kindest thing. I doubt that there has been any one of us who has not at some time been dissatisfied with their weight and needed to make adjustments to diet and exercise to manage it, so we should all understand the struggle, which is genuinely really tough for a lot of people.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
BMI is a blunt instrument because it does not take account of muscle bulk so many types of extremely fit people can have higher that chart BMI’s .
It however a useful guide for most of us .
It however a useful guide for most of us .
sbloom
Well-Known Member
There is a ton of evidence that discussing weight with children is harmful, instead it's better to make changes in their lives that make them more content, probably more active, and make dietary changes very carefully. Most children go through thinner and fatter phases, as used to be the case before we became obsessed about obesity. Hence the uproar at the renewed approach to weighing children in school. It's not pandering to children, it's science.
Winters100
Well-Known Member
I know what you are saying, and no one would want to be unkind to a child, but it seems that this 'softly softly' approach is not working, because there are more overweight children than ever before. And although you say that not talking to children about weight is 'science', equally there are many experts who say that we should be honest and open with our children about such things.
Maybe I am old fashioned, but if one of mine were obese then I would be obsessed with it, and I don't think I would be doing my duty otherwise. Children who are overweight or obese have far poorer lives than their peers, they are more likely to be bullied, and more likely to grow up to stay at an unhealthy weight. We were weighed and measured twice a term at school in the 1980s, and maybe now is the time to have something like this again, because (as with horses) being overweight seems to have become normal.
Is being called names by your peers any less harmful than your Mother talking to you sympathetically but factually about your weight and health choices, and then helping you to implement a healthy balanced diet and exercise regime? I simply cannot see that it is. It is not a matter of making children feel bad, simply making them see how they can achieve their goals and helping them to do this. You are right that children do have small fluctuations in body fat, I certainly did, and my Mother would point them out to me so that an extra 2lb never turned into an extra 20lb.
My view is that if one of the children is ever in the position of gaining weight I would like to discuss a healthier way with them, and to help them to implement it. Left undiscussed, and with them deciding on their own how to manage the problem unsupported, I feel that it could be very dangerous and leave them vulnerable to following extreme or fad diets.
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
I can't see SBloom's FB post because I'm not on FB. I can however state that people who are overweight (yes even children and I was a chubby from about age 12) know that they are overweight. They don't need anyone pointing it out as if they hadn't noticed, the bullies at school will already have done that. A parent raising the issue happened to me. All that happened was that I felt worse, ate in secret and felt even more unable to talk to my parents about the bullying. Of course feeling alone and low... guess what - I ate more in secret. Hello eating disorder which I still struggle with now.
TPO
Fly paper for freaks 🍀
Theres a whole load of societal reasons for overweight children. I must have missed a post because I'm not sure how that's relevant to the thread title? Apologies for possibly missing the obvious
All the hurt feelings and denial aside surely the bottom line is animal welfare?
Just because we as humans want something doesnt mean that we are entitled to do whatever that is.
Surely we should have the animals best interests at heart and that means ensuring that they arent under even more additional stress because we are too heavy and/or too big.
All the hurt feelings and denial aside surely the bottom line is animal welfare?
Just because we as humans want something doesnt mean that we are entitled to do whatever that is.
Surely we should have the animals best interests at heart and that means ensuring that they arent under even more additional stress because we are too heavy and/or too big.
windand rain
Well-Known Member
I think fat children need very careful handling they may well be bullied at school and distressed by their weight already Mum Dad or other family members should be there to comfort support and protect their children not pile on the pressure fat kids tend to come about by wrong or overfeeding of kids who have no control over what they eat often compounded by the types of food given are designed to be either full of sugar or fat. Cheap and nasty ready food and filling them up on snacks is my observation I have a chubby granddaughter she is and has always been mad about cheese ostensibly good food but not in large quantities She has a big build and frame like her dad and is not particularly fat in terms of wobbly bits I am hoping now she is older the more varied diet and less cheese will allow her to grow out of it
mini_b
Well-Known Member
think it got a bit derailed further up unfortunately.
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
Absolutely the animal's welfare is paramount. No-one should ride an animal that is too small for them. I don't think anyone here would disagree.
However the tangent on this thread is how to deal with an overweight child (and this could be just a few lbs, nothing that would prevent them from riding) without damaging them.
However the tangent on this thread is how to deal with an overweight child (and this could be just a few lbs, nothing that would prevent them from riding) without damaging them.
windand rain
Well-Known Member
I still think 18 stone is the max a well designed and appropriate size horse should carry. More than that is unfair and a definite welfare issue but yes the horse has to be up to it. It is very clear that the lighter, more balanced and stronger you are makes you a much better prospect for a horse to carry. But all three are equally important an unbalanced, 8 stone, novice rider with no core strength needs a stronger horse than the same rider with excellent body strength and balance. Too many factors need considered when matching horses to riders but upper weight limits are essential. Mind you I am not certain where you will find the compact strong horse with excellent conformation to teach a novice of 18stone on to get the core strength and balance
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SO1
Well-Known Member
I was at a big show today and I did see in the amateur classes some competitors that did look a bit heavy for their mounts but they were obviously decent riders to be competing at that level.
Then I realised I had unconscious bias as there could be men weighing in as much as a larger lady but it might not be so noticeable if they have thinner thighs and calves and smaller bottoms.
I do wonder if this thread is actually thinking more about overweight women rather than men who are heavier but not overweight not as noticeable as the picture is different.
One of my friends has a medical condition called Lipoedema and it can be really difficult for people with this condition to get out to try sports without feeling self conscious, especially when surrounded by people who are normal.
I am lucky enough to be only 8 stone and 5.2ft so can ride a range of ponies and horses, admittedly I am not a great rider though and I expect most of those larger ladies I saw today were better riders than me. The show classes are fairly short with only the go round and a short individual show so perhaps not such as a strain on the horse as SJ, dressage or other equine sports, though there can be a lot of standing around waiting in the larger classes. Maybe the maximum weight should be for certain activities which are more demanding of the horse than others doing a hunter show class for example very different than an actual day out hunting.
Oddly enough showing which probably is fairly low impact compared to other activities is the only situation where I have seen the wording that riders must be the appropriate size for the horse.
Then I realised I had unconscious bias as there could be men weighing in as much as a larger lady but it might not be so noticeable if they have thinner thighs and calves and smaller bottoms.
I do wonder if this thread is actually thinking more about overweight women rather than men who are heavier but not overweight not as noticeable as the picture is different.
One of my friends has a medical condition called Lipoedema and it can be really difficult for people with this condition to get out to try sports without feeling self conscious, especially when surrounded by people who are normal.
I am lucky enough to be only 8 stone and 5.2ft so can ride a range of ponies and horses, admittedly I am not a great rider though and I expect most of those larger ladies I saw today were better riders than me. The show classes are fairly short with only the go round and a short individual show so perhaps not such as a strain on the horse as SJ, dressage or other equine sports, though there can be a lot of standing around waiting in the larger classes. Maybe the maximum weight should be for certain activities which are more demanding of the horse than others doing a hunter show class for example very different than an actual day out hunting.
Oddly enough showing which probably is fairly low impact compared to other activities is the only situation where I have seen the wording that riders must be the appropriate size for the horse.
Pearlsasinger
Up in the clouds
I have taught more underweight than overweight children during my career but one overweight 7 yr old girl comes to mind. Her parents were also overweight and she was tall for her age, the school nurse identified her weight as being of concern and she was monitored by health professionals, the idea being not for her to lose weight but maintain her weight as she grew. The girl took to taking one bite from an apple at break time and then throwing the rest away, she obviously didn't understand a healthy diet. It was also noticeable that heavy boys were celebrated while heavy girls were censured by other children, even at 7.
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
The issue is a complicated one and it is also tied to mental health. There are many reasons for a child being overweight but it is vital that anyone who tries to help doesn't actually make things worse.
It was certainly interesting for me when I spoke to someone with anorexia and found that my relationship to food had so much in common with theirs. We really felt that we were on opposite sides of the same coin.
It was certainly interesting for me when I spoke to someone with anorexia and found that my relationship to food had so much in common with theirs. We really felt that we were on opposite sides of the same coin.
Hallo2012
Well-Known Member
agree with all of this.
my OH's eldest is overweight and has been the whole 5 years i have known her. 2 inches shorter than me and cracking on for nearly 3 stone more when clothed.
we have tried to gently bring up eating better, more exercise, being active and staying fit so she can do the activities she wants with her pony.........nothing changes.
she is a laid back, verging on idle, child by nature and i think she thinks "it will never happen" but she is barely 2 lb away from exceeding 20% of her pony weight and at what point do you simply say if you carry on you will be too big to ride him?! (the pony is a weight carrier and very strong backed with good bone, she is nearing 11 stone so not a case of a tiny frail pony)
so far i say nothing as i find the very softly softly approach isnt working but not my place to say anything stronger but aside from anything she is being set up for a lifetime of health problems.
i know what my dad would have said to me and it would have included fat/salad/no more puddings but i am not sure thats right either! at what point do you take control back from a child and regulate the diet more strongly?
i just dont know.
SO1
Well-Known Member
Parents should have some control outside of school of their children's diet and exercise. I do think lack of time now as people work and commute for so long is an issue as they may not have the time or energy to always think about diet and exercise for the children. The working day seems to be getting longer and longer as many people do extra hours and children seem to have more homework and under more pressure at school leading to more time sitting down and being in active. I was very lucky that my parents were self employed and wfh and could choose the hours that they worked and made sure we ate healthy and had active outdoor lives. Watching TV was a rare treat that only really occurred if my parents went out and we had a baby sitter in, rather than the main form of entertainment.
If she is not over eating in the family home then it maybe she is over eating at school which is difficult to control but the school holidays are a good time to try and get her diet at home under control but as a family you may probably all have to eat differently as it is not fair for the rest of you to be eating more fattening foods that she may crave in front of her and this will psychologically be challenging for her so you may have to adjust what you eat as well. If you have time a one hour walk after school twice a week as a family plus at weekends would probably get her moving and the weight off. Perhaps pony could join the walk in hand.
Same about exercise you may need to exercise in a family group together, walking is good, gets you out the house and fairly low impact on joints. My elderly father who is 81 needs to loose weight and we got him a special exercise bike for the elderly but he is struggles with motivation to do it on his own as it is boring he would rather watch TV or read a book, it is easier with exercise if my mum tries to go on walk with him every day.
There is also the possibility of medical reasons for weight so if she is very overweight and does not start loosing weight on a diet and exercise plan then his needs to be checked out.
A friend of mine (does not ride horses) has lipoedema and apparently it is very much undiagnosed in the population. She thinks that most overweight people who are are not eating more than they should may have this or another medical condition.
https://www.bupa.co.uk/health-information/womens-health/lipoedema
If she is not over eating in the family home then it maybe she is over eating at school which is difficult to control but the school holidays are a good time to try and get her diet at home under control but as a family you may probably all have to eat differently as it is not fair for the rest of you to be eating more fattening foods that she may crave in front of her and this will psychologically be challenging for her so you may have to adjust what you eat as well. If you have time a one hour walk after school twice a week as a family plus at weekends would probably get her moving and the weight off. Perhaps pony could join the walk in hand.
Same about exercise you may need to exercise in a family group together, walking is good, gets you out the house and fairly low impact on joints. My elderly father who is 81 needs to loose weight and we got him a special exercise bike for the elderly but he is struggles with motivation to do it on his own as it is boring he would rather watch TV or read a book, it is easier with exercise if my mum tries to go on walk with him every day.
There is also the possibility of medical reasons for weight so if she is very overweight and does not start loosing weight on a diet and exercise plan then his needs to be checked out.
A friend of mine (does not ride horses) has lipoedema and apparently it is very much undiagnosed in the population. She thinks that most overweight people who are are not eating more than they should may have this or another medical condition.
https://www.bupa.co.uk/health-information/womens-health/lipoedema
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ihatework
Well-Known Member
Its very difficult isn’t it - getting the balance.
Ive got twin nephews and one is small/slim/active the other is significantly overweight and given the choice will sit playing computer games. They are 8!!
My sister has approached it that the whole family are doing healthy lifestyle - she hasn’t mentioned his weight to him but is basically controlling his diet and exercise under the guise of ‘family lifestyle’ so he isn’t singled out.
AShetlandBitMeOnce
Well-Known Member
The tricky thing is knowing the right way to say it, and with this you really can't win.. She can have puddings, but it's clearly moderation that she needs to learn, not demonising food and implementing tight restriction - as this leads to disordered eating and thus is born the lifelong messed up relationship with food. My personal direction would be to just make healthy meals and try and limit snacks without mentioning why, just say you are all being healthy..
ETA: cross posted with IHW
Lipoedema is a very different matter, and yes a lot of the population could very well have aspects of it, but they also largely have lbs and lbs of fat they could also lose to help their case. It would have to be an incredibly significant case of lipoedema to make you too heavy to ride.
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
Hallo, is she depressed but hiding it? Lack of motivation unfortunately goes hand in hand with depression.
Hallo2012
Well-Known Member
i think it is the schooll food definitely as at ours she eats normal portions of a good variety of food-we do a LOT of salad and veg as i struggle with big carby meals (feel sick and bloated) BUT i suspect portion size at her mums is bigger (her mum eats massive portions herself albeit is not drastically overweight) and at school i would guess she is chosing pizza/pasta etc every day so that is where it piles on.
she poo picks and does her pony when with us and does get asked to walk the dog (but makes a half hearted attempt at that)
i work 2 jobs so have zero time realistically. If i sit down and eat before 9.30pm its a miracle so only really have an input at weekends OH hates confontation so struggles to galvanise her to move off the sofa and where again i would just take away the remote and thus remove the TV addiction, its out of my hands to actually do that!
her sister is tiny, very very slim and very tall, takes after her paternal grandfather very strongly which makes it harder and like me she prefers tiny light snacks.
Hallo2012
Well-Known Member
honestly i would struggle to say. She is an easy going child who rarely gets riled up about anything, the teenage years so far havent been too bad.
we did also have a ,assive struggle with hygeine around puberty BUT again it came across as more couldnt be bothered than anything else and the mum sets a bad example on that front so always put it down to that.
theres no evidence of disprdered eating, no binging or hiding food i thnk its more the food choices at school and portion size?
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
It sounds like it is a very tricky situation for you to navigate.
The hygiene thing does make me wonder - maybe she has a lack of self esteem? Is she a people pleaser?
The hygiene thing does make me wonder - maybe she has a lack of self esteem? Is she a people pleaser?