Is there (or should there be) a ceiling weight to horse riding

[ihatework]

no i guess not however for now we dont have the space for a much bigger horse and are also unsure if she will continue to ride one A levels hit so it makes most health sense to try and lose a little (half a stone not loads) to continue to ride the absolute saint of a pony she has now. and is better for her health.

I agree its not a total drama as she obese but her weight has crept up and up over the last 12 months, so its the trend that worries me if that makes sense? despite trying to gently push good habits her height hasnt increased in 2 years but weight has.

Okay, to put this into perspective, she isn’t that overweight. Granted I understand she is trending upwards and it’s sensible to try and install healthy habits. But I do think you are being rather optimistic thinking a 15yo will be a suitable size to be riding a 13.2hh, it’s not her fault she isn’t a genetically programmed skinny person. I appreciate you have land issues but it’s not unreasonable if you want a 15yo to keep riding to provide a 15hh

 

[ycbm]

I don't disagree about a 15 year old normally needing and/or wanting a bigger pony. But for her age she is very close to the red zone for weight/health issues and those who care for her are right to be concerned. Though it's a complete minefield to know how to address the problem!

NHS site:

 

[Hallo2012]

H2012 you're in an unenviable position, I don't envy you balancing being step mum, living with dad, overweight step child and borderline big enough pony at all.

I'm surprised at people suggesting 11 stone and 5ft 4 isn't anything to be concerned about at 15. She's well into the 90th percentile for her height, age and sex and well into amber/bordering on red zone. Even accepting BMI is a flawed measure, there's definitely an issue of concern for her future health.
.

thanks! was beginning to wonder if i was losing it!

 

[Goldenstar]

12 stone

Well that’s most adult men unable to get on a horse then .

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Okay, to put this into perspective, she isn’t that overweight. Granted I understand she is trending upwards and it’s sensible to try and install healthy habits. But I do think you are being rather optimistic thinking a 15yo will be a suitable size to be riding a 13.2hh, it’s not her fault she isn’t a genetically programmed skinny person. I appreciate you have land issues but it’s not unreasonable if you want a 15yo to keep riding to provide a 15hh

She still could have plenty of growing to do. Being judged to be overweight when she isn't, by an unrelated skinny person, is hardly going to do her any good in either the long or the short term. In most sensible families the pony would be said to be outgrown and sold/loaned to allow a bigger model to be brought home. You wouldn't expect a 15 yr old to still be trying to fit onto a fairy cycle.

 

[Hallo2012]

Okay, to put this into perspective, she isn’t that overweight. Granted I understand she is trending upwards and it’s sensible to try and install healthy habits. But I do think you are being rather optimistic thinking a 15yo will be a suitable size to be riding a 13.2hh, it’s not her fault she isn’t a genetically programmed skinny person. I appreciate you have land issues but it’s not unreasonable if you want a 15yo to keep riding to provide a 15hh

yes thats all that worries me, she is NOT morbidly obese, but she is overweight, trend going up and it does slight;y affect her eg very puffed after walking uphill or a long canter on the pony etc. Its concern for the future and nothing more.

pony wise: I expected her to bottom out around 10-10.5 stone given her parents heights/weights so the 13hh would have (in my mind) done until she was old enough to REALLY decide if she wans to keep riding (around A levels is usally the pinch point)
She doesnt want to compete and he is perfect in as much as a total saint in any conditions or even if in irregular work. never fresh or silly.

if we could magic more land/bigger stables and she stepped up to a 15hh i dont have the time to keep it under the thumb for her with 2 jobs, and a 15hh super saint will be hard to find.

she cannot ride daily.

i guess my feeling is to get fitter would be better for her but also easier as then she can pick up/put down the 13hh at will around school with zero fear of falling off? which would be horrible if she suddenly lost confidence.

fidning a bigger version of that may ultimately not work out?

and its not stones, just a better way of eating going forward?

i dont think thats unrealistic?

we seem to have digressed some, my only original point is that it is VERY hard to know at what point to step in, if at all for any parent.

 

[Cortez]

There are only two countries that I have been to in a horse-related capacity where I have seen many riders who were obviously and grossly too big for their horses, and that was the USA (where all this "anyone can ride no matter their size" started) and the UK. I've seen some fat riders in other places, but nothing like the numbers there are in those two countries. It shouldn't be a mystery as to why some places have more fat people than others, food culture and societal norms, or perhaps there is another explanation?

Whatever, people who are too fat to ride their poor, longsuffering horses should be informed of that fact, possibly by way of a standard regulation.

For those offering 12 stone as an upper limit, the hunter weight classes go up to 14.5st for heavyweight hunters at Dublin, and always have.

For previous musings about horses in history, the average male cavalry trooper in the 17th - early 20th centuries was 5' 6" - 5'7" and 10.5 - 11 stone. The average daily range of a cavalry troop was 27 miles, and daily ration for the horses was 2.5kgs of oats + grass forage and/or 6 - 8kgs of hay.

 

[Gloi]

.

 

[Winters100]

H2012 you're in an unenviable position, I don't envy you balancing being step mum, living with dad, overweight step child and borderline big enough pony at all.

I'm surprised at people suggesting 11 stone and 5ft 4 isn't anything to be concerned about at 15. She's well into the 90th percentile for her height, age and sex and well into amber/bordering on red zone. Even accepting BMI is a flawed measure, there's definitely an issue of concern for her future health.
.

Totally agree. I would definitely be worried, and would want to tackle the issue as soon as possible, waiting too long could result in the child becoming seriously overweight or obese. Yes there is a possibility that she will just grow out of it, but the evidence shows that the vast majority of overweight children grow up to be overweight or obese adults, so saying nothing and hoping for that is a risky strategy.

You said that you will have to be the one who tells her that she can't ride the pony if it comes to that. Maybe this could be a changing point, perhaps her Father could inform her Mother how close it is, and tell her that if the child gains more it will be her who will have to break the news? Since the Mother says that she too has gained maybe it could be a good time for her to implement a new regime for both of them.

I do understand what people say about trying to make her happier, and not changing her from an overweight unhappy girl to a healthy weight unhappy girl, but in my opinion it will be hard for her to be happy if she continues to be overweight. Perlasinger mentioned in a previous post that girls who are overweight have problems from other children, so at least helping her with this could make a first step towards a better life. To me it has to be supervised by an encouraging adult - it is hard enough for us adults to lose weight, so how can a child be expected to do it without support?

 

[windand rain]

The fine line is no one can make her lose weight she has to want to for whatever motivation. You can encourage her to do more but if you push it at her age she will likely say " "go away in jerky movements" you are not my mum/dad/stepmum I can take care of myself" resulting in her stuffing her face to prove a point. Been there not done that but seen it done you have to give her the credence to think for herself and give the opportunity to right it because she wants to

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I do understand what people say about trying to make her happier, and not changing her from an overweight unhappy girl to a healthy weight unhappy girl, but in my opinion it will be hard for her to be happy if she continues to be overweight.

Do you believe that it is possible to be overweight and happy?

I can tell you from my own experience that working on happiness first is the key. If you don't then yo-yo dieting is a real possibility. Also tying happiness to weight is very damaging. I honestly at one point thought that everything would be OK if only I could loose weight, it was a terrible thing and doomed to failure. In reality I was still filled with self loathing and misery. The main change was that I no longer had comments about my weight from strangers, I now had sleazy, sexual comments from strangers. Great swap there.

 

[windand rain]

I have been overweight, at times obese and have always been happy and contented I hate toxic people dislike most people but have made my life happy for 67 years. The bulllies tried hard but failed to make me miserable. I have lost 5 stone in recent years but have also given up riding not due to weight but due to a severe injury I still love my ponies still care for them and still don't like people much. I like my solitary pursuits gardening and ponies give me great pleasure and happiness

 

[Winters100]

Do you believe that it is possible to be overweight and happy?

Yes, for adults of course it is possible, and I believe that many are, in fact some of my friends would fall into this category.

For children I believe that it is more complex, because while it is possible for them to be overweight and happy, I believe that their lives are, wrongly of course, made more difficult by society, particularly by their peers. In my opinion they would need to have a very high level of self esteem and confidence, which most children do not, particularly if they have been bullied about their weight. So for children I would say possible, but very difficult.

I also believe that as parents we have a duty to set our children up for a healthy life. If later on, as adults, they gain weight and are happy with that then so be it, but as children they are not, in my opinion, able to take a 'long view', and cannot therefore be solely responsible for making decisions which will affect their later life, they need help and guidance in this regard.

 

[I'm Dun]

the one interesting thing reading this, is just how many people, fat and thin, have really skewed perspectives of weight.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

OK, you just don't understand at all and I clearly am utterly incapable of explaining it properly. I'm out of this thread it's too upsetting.

ETA - this was in response to post 193.

 

[Gloi]

Girls who are overweight have problems from other children, so at least helping her with this could make a first step towards a better life.

this is often the other way round 'girls who have problems from other children often put on (or lose) weight'.
How happy is she in her life, has she good friends, is she happy with her family life?
I know from experience I put on weight if mildly depressed and lose it if things get really bad. As a teen it can also be a defence against unwanted sexual attention though not saying it is here.

 

[windand rain]

I always know when my son is happy he gets fat. If he is unhappy he gets skinny to the point of being ill so everyone is different and I was fat as a child and I was happy well as happy as any other child

 

[McGrools]

Children are getting fatter. I really dont think overweight kids are in the minority any more. I’d say 50% of the kids i teach at the riding school are overweight. Its becoming the norm and its a very worrying trend.

 

[Orangehorse]

I have read many of the comments but not all.

However, I agree that there should be a top weight beyond which a person should not be riding, and I think 18 stone too as tops.

Go back to the old weight definitions for hunters - light, middle and heavyweight and cobs. This was a weight of rider and the horse being expected to cope with hunting for a season, galloping and jumping and remain sound, so I think these weight divisions are a sound guide.

Also armies in many countries have done studies into how the horses cope with carrying their riders and equipment, and the difference in long term soundness, and this is where the 20% rule was found, I believe.

But these are carrying riders at a slow pace, they are not expected to gallop and jump while carrying the maximum.

I knew a girl who was overweight throughout her teens and 20s, and had Highlands, as weight carriers, but she still looked heavy on them and two went lame with hock problems. She did manage to lose a great deal of weight in the end.

As far as ponies are concern, as Dr. Deb Bennett states, "ponies are over-engineered" for their size. That is simply why ponies are much sounder than horses. Dr. Deb herself is no lightweight, I would think at least 16 stone, but she had two strong horses, and again, she was not galloping or jumping them.

A thoroughbred racehorse point-to-pointer is expected to carry 12st 7lb over three miles at the gallop and jumping, and I always keep that in mind for what horses can carry - however, this is fast forward movement, not going round in circles which can strain their limbs.

 

[Winters100]

OK, you just don't understand at all and I clearly am utterly incapable of explaining it properly. I'm out of this thread it's too upsetting.

ETA - this was in response to post 193.

I am sorry, I really did not mean to upset anyone, it is just my genuine view, but of course we all have different experiences which lead us to see things in different ways. Please do understand that I have nothing horrid to say about people who struggle with weight issues, I know how hard it is, but I have to control mine, because after a serious injury I have a lot of pain if I do not stay at the lower end of a healthy weight range.

It is very interesting to hear the opinions of others on the subject, in general the vast majority of parents want the best for their children, and do not want to make them unhappy. I suppose we all just have different ways of approaching this.

To put it in context I was raised by a disabled Mother. For her to keep any level of mobility a level of fitness and weight control was a must, she was going to the gym long before it became fashionable, and for many years had to go to a body builders gym as that was all there was in our area. So I suppose the health part has always been a massive motivator for me to keep the children active. I don't really get them to do exercise just for the sake of it, such as running or going to a gym, but I do severely restrict screen time, and I am much more likely to suggest a game of basketball in the evening than watching a movie as a way of spending time with them. To date we have not had issues with their weight, but I truly would not like them to be outside of a healthy range, because I just see it as an added difficulty which can be avoided.

Anyway my apologies if I offended you, it was not my intention.

 

[Tiddlypom]

.

the one interesting thing reading this, is just how many people, fat and thin, have really skewed perspectives of weight.

Yup, this.

 

[Frumpoon]

Well that’s most adult men unable to get on a horse then .

Yep

 

[Winters100]

.

Yup, this.

Also interesting that today we all seem to be categorised as 'fat' or 'thin'. Personally I don't consider myself as either, and this is confirmed by my BMI being within normal range, and by my doctor being happy with my weight, but it doesn't stop people commenting.

My cousin, who is in the US, tells me that it is worse there for children. Her daughters are normal weight for their age / height, but children in this range are referred to as 'the skinny kids'. Makes you wonder where this ends

 

[marmalade76]

Do you believe that it is possible to be overweight and happy?

I can tell you from my own experience that working on happiness first is the key. If you don't then yo-yo dieting is a real possibility. Also tying happiness to weight is very damaging. I honestly at one point thought that everything would be OK if only I could loose weight, it was a terrible thing and doomed to failure. In reality I was still filled with self loathing and misery. The main change was that I no longer had comments about my weight from strangers, I now had sleazy, sexual comments from strangers. Great swap there.

Yep. I think some of the posters here could do with reading both volumes of Rae Earl's Mad Fat Diary.

 

[FlyingCircus]

Very interesting thread!

Do people think professionals have more of a part to play? Most seem scared to day anything lest they lose a client.

At 17 I had a very blunt male riding instructor who told me if I wanted to be a better rider I was going to need to start eating less and running more! I was 5ft2 and just 9 stone. It didn't upset me, it made me upset at me that I wasn't doing enough off the horse to be as good as I could be.

It has always stuck with me, in a positive sense that if I go for a trot or canter on a hack and get out of breath, I think about what he said and do something about it.

 

[PapaverFollis]

Basically kids (and adults) need to get away from their screens of all types, stop eating utter cr*p and go out for a d*mn walk.

They'd all be happier AND thinner if they did that.

I speak from experience. I was a fattish 15 year old. My mum is a right feeder and encouraged emotional eating. Then I went to 6th form, actually started doing some proper exercise and got a job as a groom on the weekends. The weight fell off. Size 14 to size 8, helped by a growth spurt... proper "puppy fat" scenario. I was so busy working, doing school work and going out clubbing that I didn't have time to be bored and eat to excess. Thank god there was no social media back then though.

I still struggle with my weight and emotions but mostly the same three rules will sort me out on both fronts. It's just remembering that when I hit a low/fat patch!

 

[Iris1995]

12 stone

A limit of 12 stone rules out Mark Todd, William Fox-Pitt and Carl Hester.

 

[SEL]

I've always thought 16 stone taking into account the horse, it's job etc. There's one I see around here built like a tank who could take 16st and i know a couple of the guys who hunt who must be about that weight.

Went to a ranch in Montana many years ago with friends and some of the riders there were enormous. All the riding was done at a walk and they had horses who looked to have Belgian draft in them - but it was painful watching them being mounted from the ground.

I don't think this should be an argument about obesity. I know a 22yo r7gby player who doesn't ride any longer because he's too heavy. That's not fat.

 

[Cortez]

I used to find hunters for an extremely wealthy businessman, he was around 20 stone (I also once found a horse for Pavarotti, but that's by the by). I supplied him with some of the most beautiful real heavyweight horses, but I stopped doing it because ALL of those lovely horses ended up unsound, either with leg or back problems after a very short time. He was simply too heavy and it was a welfare issue. Of course, there were others to keep up the supply, but it was heartbreaking to see the poor horses. They never complained or misbehaved, just succumbed to their injuries and were replaced.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Yes, for adults of course it is possible, and I believe that many are, in fact some of my friends would fall into this category.

For children I believe that it is more complex, because while it is possible for them to be overweight and happy, I believe that their lives are, wrongly of course, made more difficult by society, particularly by their peers. In my opinion they would need to have a very high level of self esteem and confidence, which most children do not, particularly if they have been bullied about their weight. So for children I would say possible, but very difficult.

I also believe that as parents we have a duty to set our children up for a healthy life. If later on, as adults, they gain weight and are happy with that then so be it, but as children they are not, in my opinion, able to take a 'long view', and cannot therefore be solely responsible for making decisions which will affect their later life, they need help and guidance in this regard.

A very important part of a good parent's role is to help children to develop with self-esteem from their very earliest days, nagging them about their weight/eating habits/any other personal traits does not foster self-esteem. Those children who are happy in themselves because they feel secure in their relationships with their family members are highly unlikely to develop disordered eating of any kind.