Is there (or should there be) a ceiling weight to horse riding

[Winters100]

A very important part of a good parent's role is to help children to develop with self-esteem from their very earliest days, nagging them about their weight/eating habits/any other personal traits does not foster self-esteem. Those children who are happy in themselves because they feel secure in their relationships with their family members are highly unlikely to develop disordered eating of any kind.

Totally agree with this, nagging in any form is terrible, whether it is directed at children or other adults. In our house having rules and sanctions makes nagging unnecessary. I simply refuse to be put in a position that I have to ask them a thousand times to do something. I just ask once 'please tidy your room', and the next time it is 'your room needs to be tidy by xxx am/pm, or xxx happens' (usually removal of phone / ipad, and they KNOW that we will do it).

I appreciate that our way may be fairly old fashioned compared to many households, in that we control many aspects of their life which other teenagers might have more freedom with, but for us it does seem to work. I know what they eat, because we eat together. This is no different to how I was raised, there are always plenty of healthy things for them to snack on if they are hungry, but no crisps of sweets, and I am not afraid of them being hungry by mealtimes, because in my opinion they should be hungry by then so that they enjoy their meal. I don't nag them, because they eat the reasonably healthy food that I cook. If I let them choose then of course they would try to have only pizza and burgers, and then I would have to nag.

I know that some people will say that perhaps they are too 'under the thumb', but they are all doing well academically, have many friends, and bags of confidence. The oldest is the equivalent of 'Head Boy' in school, and all are well liked by their peers and teachers. My view is that if you nip problems in the bud when they are easily dealt with, whether it is weight, academic performance, manners or anything else, then you don't put yourself in a position of nagging a child who is overwhelmed by the scale of the problem.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Totally agree with this, nagging in any form is terrible, whether it is directed at children or other adults. In our house having rules and sanctions makes nagging unnecessary. I simply refuse to be put in a position that I have to ask them a thousand times to do something. I just ask once 'please tidy your room', and the next time it is 'your room needs to be tidy by xxx am/pm, or xxx happens' (usually removal of phone / ipad, and they KNOW that we will do it).

I appreciate that our way may be fairly old fashioned compared to many households, in that we control many aspects of their life which other teenagers might have more freedom with, but for us it does seem to work. I know what they eat, because we eat together. This is no different to how I was raised, there are always plenty of healthy things for them to snack on if they are hungry, but no crisps of sweets, and I am not afraid of them being hungry by mealtimes, because in my opinion they should be hungry by then so that they enjoy their meal. I don't nag them, because they eat the reasonably healthy food that I cook. If I let them choose then of course they would try to have only pizza and burgers, and then I would have to nag.

I know that some people will say that perhaps they are too 'under the thumb', but they are all doing well academically, have many friends, and bags of confidence. The oldest is the equivalent of 'Head Boy' in school, and all are well liked by their peers and teachers. My view is that if you nip problems in the bud when they are easily dealt with, whether it is weight, academic performance, manners or anything else, then you don't put yourself in a position of nagging a child who is overwhelmed by the scale of the problem.

A very sensible, healthy family life, imho BUT somewhat at odds with the advice that you gave upthread to OP, who is the stepmother of the teenager who has/is outgrowing her pony. And who isn't actually overweight at this juncture.

 

[marmalade76]

Totally agree with this, nagging in any form is terrible, whether it is directed at children or other adults. In our house having rules and sanctions makes nagging unnecessary. I simply refuse to be put in a position that I have to ask them a thousand times to do something. I just ask once 'please tidy your room', and the next time it is 'your room needs to be tidy by xxx am/pm, or xxx happens' (usually removal of phone / ipad, and they KNOW that we will do it).

I appreciate that our way may be fairly old fashioned compared to many households, in that we control many aspects of their life which other teenagers might have more freedom with, but for us it does seem to work. I know what they eat, because we eat together. This is no different to how I was raised, there are always plenty of healthy things for them to snack on if they are hungry, but no crisps of sweets, and I am not afraid of them being hungry by mealtimes, because in my opinion they should be hungry by then so that they enjoy their meal. I don't nag them, because they eat the reasonably healthy food that I cook. If I let them choose then of course they would try to have only pizza and burgers, and then I would have to nag.

I know that some people will say that perhaps they are too 'under the thumb', but they are all doing well academically, have many friends, and bags of confidence. The oldest is the equivalent of 'Head Boy' in school, and all are well liked by their peers and teachers. My view is that if you nip problems in the bud when they are easily dealt with, whether it is weight, academic performance, manners or anything else, then you don't put yourself in a position of nagging a child who is overwhelmed by the scale of the problem.

I have cousin, he's ten years younger than me. My aunt had the clever idea of not allowing him to eat ANYTHING with sugar in it, except on special occasions like birthday parties. She loved how excited he was over the food whilst all the other children were nonchalant.

As soon as my cousin started senior school and had a little more freedom and time away from his parents, he started secretly binging and has been the size of a house ever since.

The are crisps, chocolate and biscuits in my cupboards because I like to eat them, my children have free rein and do you know what, they don't take the pee and both are a healthy weight. I learnt from my aunt's mistakes.

 

[Cortez]

That isn't always the outcome though. I was also brought up without sweets, crisps, fizzy drinks or any kind of fast food. To this day I've never eaten that kind of thing, nor do I want to. I've never been overweight , same with my brother.

 

[ycbm]

. And who isn't actually overweight at this juncture.

She is!

She is at the 96th percentile for her age and height and very close to the red zone for serious health issues. The NHS site is categoric, she's overweight.
.

 

[palo1]

That isn't always the outcome though. I was also brought up without sweets, crisps, fizzy drinks or any kind of fast food. To this day I've never eaten that kind of thing, nor do I want to. I've never been overweight , same with my brother.

It is horribly easy for people to develop an addiction to sugar in particular and that has a huge part to play in obesity. Years ago I told my children that if they wanted cake they would have to make it - they do make cake and enjoy it; my daughter loves baking in fact but we never have crisps, fizzy drinks or the dreaded 'boughten' cake in the house. It just doesn't feel either necessary or healthy. My teenagers eat enough as it is, the last thing they need is food that will make them fat!!

But my family's food culture is hugely different to that of my parents so it isn't always the way that dietary habits work like that....i

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

She is!

She is at the 96th percentile for her age and height and very close to the red zone for serious health issues.

Well that's funny because yesterday she was at the 90th centile. Without wanting to be rude, I'm not sure that I would be asking someone with your attitude to food, as you discuss it on here, about a healthy diet.

 

[ycbm]

Well that's funny because yesterday she was at the 90th centile. Without wanting to be rude, I'm not sure that I would be asking someone with your attitude to food about a healthy diet.

She is at the 96th percentile for a child. See post 182 above which is a screenshot of the NHS site, nothing to do with me at all, (though I'm a very healthy weight and eat a healthy diet, thanks ).
.

 

[SO1]

I think this is a big part of what is fuelling the obesity problem that we now have in the UK.

The cost of housing has increased so much that it is very difficult for people on a single wage to support a family now unless they are a high earner. If both parents working long hours and tired there is very little time left during the week for exercise outside the home and perhaps shopping and cooking heathy meals become a chore that people could do without so they end up getting more processed food as it is quick and easy to prepare.

This can result in not just overweight children but overweight adults, if you come from home work exhausted and then slob out on the sofa with a pizza most nights you may get overweight. I also think the levels of work related stress has risen as well and that can result in comfort eating and drinking to relax. Alcohol is very fattening too.

Most people with horses are probably are going to be fitter as they ride and do stable chores in between working but it does not mean that they will eat healthily if they are time poor.

[QUOTE="Hallo2012, post: 14662527, member: 126854"

i work 2 jobs so have zero time realistically. If i sit down and eat before 9.30pm its a miracle so only really have an input at weekends OH hates confontation so struggles to galvanise her to move off the sofa and where again i would just take away the remote and thus remove the TV addiction, its out of my hands to actually do that!

her sister is tiny, very very slim and very tall, takes after her paternal grandfather very strongly which makes it harder and like me she prefers tiny light snacks.[/QUOTE]

 

[sbloom]

The girl we're talking about has gained weight in the last year. No-one else? Really?! Almost every single booking I take they say they weigh more than they used to, lockdown bum/tummy, and are trying to get the weight off. I send some to look at rebelfit to at least see that there's another way, I can't bear that I might be the cause of someone starting yo-yo dieting and ultimately reducing, not improving their health. The diet industry stinks.

We've all, or nearly all, faced a harder time with our mental health. A few will have loved lockdown, many of us will have liked aspects of it, but most will have had some struggles, and many many have struggled with their relationship with food.

Happiness isn't the right goal, but building self esteem and ending people pleasing (if you don't think the latter is an issue look up co-dependency) is the best way to get fit and healthy, and to lose weight if that is required.

 

[spacefaer]

@Birker2020
I've seen your posts about looking for a horse., and your pics - whatever you feel about how you look/weigh, you definitely won't be judged if you go to try a horse. You look absolutely normal and would be welcome to try any horse I had for sale.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Feeling a bit stronger about this now so just a quick post.

When I said 'happiness' I was thinking about being happy within yourself, feeling at ease in your own skin and having self esteem. Maybe I used a misleading term and that was not done on purpose. When I wake up in the small hours and feel low I would use the word unhappy as one of the words to help describe how I feel, so the opposite would be happy and that's why I used it.

 

[sbloom]

Feeling a bit stronger about this now so just a quick post.

When I said 'happiness' I was thinking about being happy within yourself, feeling at ease in your own skin and having self esteem. Maybe I used a misleading term and that was not done on purpose. When I wake up in the small hours and feel low I would use the word unhappy as one of the words to help describe how I feel, so the opposite would be happy and that's why I used it.

I'm sorry, my comment about happiness wasn't aimed at you at all and sorry if it came across that way, I'm 100% on your side in terms of this approach to health and weight. I am just very wary of using the word as an aim for young people, being specific about self esteem and ridding ourselves of co-dependency seems more useful.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I'm sorry, my comment about happiness wasn't aimed at you at all and sorry if it came across that way, I'm 100% on your side in terms of this approach to health and weight. I am just very wary of using the word as an aim for young people, being specific about self esteem and ridding ourselves of co-dependency seems more useful.

Clarity of language is important. I can completely see how people could be aiming for the wrong thing without it because they got the wrong end of the stick.

To bring this back to riding and weight. Most overweight people I know are hyper aware of their weight. The ones that ride have been incredibly strict about the horses that they ride, possibly going too far and not riding when they could have for fear of damaging the horse.

I'm aware that this is a small sample of people and not representative of everyone.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Sbloom, I looked up Rebelfit and it is an interesting site. I read this blog post which rang true to my experience and I am now going to read the study linked.

http://rebelfit.co.uk/blog/2020/how-do-you-think-about-your-body

https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12916-018-1116-5

 

[Winters100]

A very sensible, healthy family life, imho BUT somewhat at odds with the advice that you gave upthread to OP, who is the stepmother of the teenager who has/is outgrowing her pony. And who isn't actually overweight at this juncture.

I'm not sure what advice you refer to as being at odds with the way I manage our household. My advice to the Stepmother was that the parent with whom the child lives needs to be the one to implement change:

"Must be very sad for you to watch this and be unable to do anything, I feel for you. Realistically you can do very little if she is only at yours at weekends, the poor child probably is unhappy, but really it has to be the parent who she lives with for the majority of the time who implements changes to her diet, and if school are serving food which does not suit her, to send her with a packed meal. You can only hope that one day she will decide to tackle this, and be available to help her if she does, but if the Mother is not serving her appropriate foods in appropriate portion sizes then it will be very difficult for her. A very sad situation for all concerned. "

The screenshot that ycbm posted from the NHS website seems to me to be clearly saying that some action needs to be taken in this regard. Obviously how this is done is a personal choice, and also depends on the character of the child. With mine I would take them aside and discuss the issue, try to agree with them how I could help them tackle it, while others might prefer to just say that the whole family is going to eat differently and do more exercise as part of a health drive. I don't think it matters how you deal with it, as long as it is done carefully and kindly, but to me just leaving things as they are, and potentially watching a child slide into the overweight, and then maybe even the obese category, would not be an option. The NHS website also suggested speaking with the GP, so medical advice was not to ignore it.

I appreciate what others say about not discussing weight with children, and the truth is that all parents have to make decisions which they don't really know whether they are right or wrong, but I do believe that we have allowed weight to somehow become a 'shameful' subject, not to be discussed. Given that just about everyone I know, whether in the underweight, healthy or overweight categories, have at some time struggled with their weight and had to make adjustments, it just seems wrong to me that it is so hushed up, because we can help our children if they do have these issues, and help them to deal with it in a healthy balanced way.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Winters, please read the links in my post 225 above.

 

[sbloom]

The screenshot that ycbm posted from the NHS website seems to me to be clearly saying that some action needs to be taken in this regard.

I would say there's a lot of advice coming from the NHS that is being disputed by people working in a much more holistic way. It's not that action shouldn't be taken, but just as some comments such as "lazy" in posts above, it's to search for the whys and not simply the symptoms, and I would say, as someone with ADHD, that laziness is a symptom, not a natural way for most humans (or horses even more so) to be.

 

[FestiveG]

The child is living between two households, which appear to have different approaches to her and to have different lifestyles. It is more than likely that this is having a negative effect on her and her self esteem. If these difficulties are addressed, then possibly her other areas of life will also improve.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Sorry to pick on your post Winters, but I'm hoping that people can see the difference between the two approaches you suggest. I have read/heard both worse and better suggestions, but these probably represent normal ideas that most parents might come up with.

1) take them aside and discuss the issue, try to agree with them how I could help them tackle it

2) say that the whole family is going to eat differently and do more exercise as part of a health drive

Can people see how one is singling a child out and (to use a buzz word) fat shaming them? How this is more likely to cause food issues and self esteem issues. How the second doesn't single one person out and is less likely to cause a loss of self esteem etc...

 

[spacefaer]

Going back to the OP, I think that if a rider has an appropriate horse for their body build, then being heavier is not a problem. However, I'd also say that finding an appropriate horse as the rider gets heavier, becomes more of a challenge.

We once had a big horse for sale - 18hh hwt hunter. Chap came to try him who was an ex professional rugby player who weighed 17 stone "in his skin" (his words - and a great mental image when I met him ,?)
The horse was fit - for me at 5'8 and 10 stone. He struggled cantering uphill with the chap trying him. However, suitably conditioned and fitter, he was the horse of a lifetime and stayed sound well into his 20s. However, the guy was fit and had natural balance.

 

[ycbm]

with ADHD, that laziness is a symptom

You're right about looking for causes, not at symptoms. Just to clarify a bit, though, I won't allow myself to call myself lazy any more, since I got a diagnosis, because it's mentally damaging to think that way. Instead, I think of it as an inability to see the point of, or any merit in, doing anything that will just need doing again tomorrow (sweep the yard) or to expend energy on something which has zero chance of being new or exciting, or of making life feel worth waking up for (doing the household accounts). I can see it looks like laziness to people outside, but it feels like unresolvable purposelessness, not laziness.

I think there's a desperately difficult family dynamic going on with H2012's step daughter. Her dad split up with her Mum and he chose a new partner who is naturally slim, a very hard worker, and who lives a high octane lifestyle. In the mind of a teenager, being unable, or unwilling, to match the example of the woman her father has chosen to spend the rest of his life with - to become the kind of woman her father admires, if you like - that's probably going to be doing some bad things to that child's self esteem.

It's nobody's fault, and it's a very difficult situation for all the people in that household and probably for Mum as well. Step parenting is a minefield of a role to take on.
.

 

[sbloom]

You're right about looking for causes, not at symptoms. Just to clarify a bit, though, I won't allow myself to call myself lazy any more, since I got a diagnosis, because it's mentally damaging to think that way. Instead, I think of it as an inability to see the point of, or any merit in, doing anything that will just need doing again tomorrow (sweep the yard) or to expend energy on something which has zero chance of being new or exciting, or of making life feel worth waking up for (doing the household accounts). I can see it looks like laziness to people outside, but it feels like unresolvable purposelessness, not laziness.

I think there's a desperately difficult family dynamic going on with H2012's step daughter. Her dad split up with her Mum and he chose a new partner who is naturally slim, a very hard worker, and who lives a high octane lifestyle. In the mind of a teenager, being unable, or unwilling, to match the example of the woman her father has chosen to spend the rest of his life with - to become the kind of woman her father admires, if you like - that's probably going to be doing some bad things to that child's self esteem.

It's nobody's fault, and it's a very difficult situation for all the people in that household and probably for Mum as well. Step parenting is a minefield of a role to take on.
.

Oh agreed on all point, "lazy" was used in the comments, so was addressing it directly. Why are some children "lazier" than others? No-one seems to wonder, they just make it a character defect, understandable but it has to change.

 

[Winters100]

Sorry to pick on your post Winters, but I'm hoping that people can see the difference between the two approaches you suggest. I have read/heard both worse and better suggestions, but these probably represent normal ideas that most parents might come up with.

1) take them aside and discuss the issue, try to agree with them how I could help them tackle it

2) say that the whole family is going to eat differently and do more exercise as part of a health drive

Can people see how one is singling a child out and (to use a buzz word) fat shaming them? How this is more likely to cause food issues and self esteem issues. How the second doesn't single one person out and is less likely to cause a loss of self esteem etc...

Yes, I totally see what you are saying, but I still think that much depends upon the child, and also upon the relationship with the child. I don't want mine to see weight issues as something shameful, just as what they are, a fact that if you take in more calories then you need to be more active. They need to understand that pretty much everyone, at some point in their lives, will need or want to make adjustments, that it is nothing to be ashamed of, and is better done early on and in a healthy way.

As an example last year our daughter came back from swimming camp upset because a boy had said she had fat legs. We discussed it, calculated her BMI (healthy), and we talked about how important it is not to allow your self esteem to be knocked by silly comments made by other children, and how best to react to them. In looking at her weight objectively we were able to agree that she did not need to lose weight, so we avoided her trying to go on some silly fad diet. We also discussed body shape, how she could tone up using exercise if that is what she wanted to do, and as a result she started cycling with me. I do not believe that she felt shamed by the discussion, I was glad that she told me about it, and I assured her that if she was ever nearing an unhealthy weight then I would be the one to tell her about it, so there was no need to listen to other children.

I agree that for an overweight child any discussion needs to be handled with extreme care, but I still believe that it is possible to talk about it without 'fat shaming', which I would never do to anyone, let alone a child. In that position I would believe it to be very important to know how the child feels about it, whether they have problems at school, and what help they need from me. No one is suggesting to open a discussion with 'you are too fat', but carefully phrased questions and comments, given in private at the right time, might just allow them to open up and to let you know what they need.

Of course this discussion arose from comments made by a step parent, and in this case sadly for the child her hands are tied, as she is not the right person to tackle it. I find this to be a sad situation for everyone concerned. Our children are actually not biologically mine, but I refer to myself as their Mother, because that is what I am. Their 'First Mother' as we call her, sadly passed away when they were very small. I did not know her, but I strangely feel that I do now. I keep a photo of her on my desk, and I long ago made a promise that I would raise the children as my own, which to me includes watching out for their health, both physical and mental. If I allowed them to become an unhealthy weight, knowing what difficulties that would present them with, then I would really feel that I had let her, them and their Father down badly.

 

[Winters100]

Winters, please read the links in my post 225 above.

I read them and I am shocked. Someone allowed a poor child to become 18 stone aged 14? Given that we buy the food that our children eat this is absurd. The writer said that she started putting on weight aged SEVEN. At that age we have almost 100% control over what they eat and how much they exercise. And now this poor man or woman is in their late 20s and weighs 23 stone, with all of the health implications that this has.

To me this is child abuse. Nowhere does the writer say that their parents stepped in to control their weight gain. No mention of healthy meals, of their parents building their self esteem by finding something that they were good at and joining them in the activity. At seven years old we as parents put the food on the plate, and we choose whether they watch television / play on the tablet or join us for a game of badminton or a cycle ride. Parenting at its worst, and this poor individual is paying the price of the neglect.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

They don't mention their parents at all, so we have no idea if they tried to tackle the issue, ignored the issue or if she was an orphan. You are making a lot of unfounded assumptions.

 

[Winters100]

They don't mention their parents at all, so we have no idea if they tried to tackle the issue, ignored the issue or if she was an orphan. You are making a lot of unfounded assumptions.

Well they let a child age 7 pile on the pounds, and it is not very difficult to control a child's weight in pre-teen years. They also let a 14 year old get to 18 stone.

The answer on this site was:


• Young girl gains some weight
• Young girl gets fat shamed
• Young girl starts her first diet
And that moment, that first diet, represents the end of her healthy, positive relationship with food, and the start of a self-destructive relationship with food that (via several rounds of dieting) leads to obesity long term.

Would it not have been better if the parents had been in control of a healthy lifestyle? Then the 'young girl' would not have been fat shamed, because she would not have been fat, and there would have been no need for her to do any big diet, a few extra lbs could have been dealt with by upping the exercise and cutting back just a little. Children should not have to be managing this, it is our job as parents to feed them well, and to nip problems in the bud if they arise. It is NOT making assumptions to say that parents who allow a child to start gaining weight at 7 years old, and to reach 18 stone by 14 years old, are neglectful. The same is true if your suggestion that the child may have been orphaned is correct, in this case I would expect social services to at the very least be able to place the child somewhere that they could be given appropriate nutrition. One of the saddest things I have read in a while, and the parents should be ashamed of themselves.

Edited to add that just recently I read on this site about someone banned from keeping horses, because they had failed to follow vet advice and had allowed a horse to become obese. I did not see any comments saying that this was unfair or unjustified. Surely children deserve at least the same care.

 

[windand rain]

I lost 5 stone because i would rather be fat and happy than on a diet and miserable it took me a while to learn that diets make you fatter. If you stop trying to lose weight you have a much healthier relationship with food and lose weight because food is not the main concept from waking up to sleeping

 

[Wishfilly]

As someone who developed an eating disorder around the age of 15, I would be very careful tackling weight at that age. I understand it's a tricky issue, and with a pony involved it's even tougher. I understand it's also a tricky age to trade up a pony, and there's an issue around land, too. It sounds like a difficult situation all round.

As a more general point, I do think riding as a sport somewhat normalises disordered eating- any job that involves riding will often specify a weight limit (which is obviously necessary) and jockeys often talk about the stupid things they do to keep their weight low (and that is not a welfare thing). I know when I worked full time with horses I often skipped meals and had somewhat disordered eating habits- meanwhile my boss would praise me for being light enough to ride small ponies. In no way is that her fault, but I do think it's something we need to be concious of.

Obviously each horse has a weight limit (I know I am conscious of my pony and my weight) and there are some people who will be too heavy for any horse.

I think it's also a relevant that we are getting taller- Others have talked about horses being ridden/worked in the past, but it's relevant that most people who did this would be pretty short by today's standards. As we get taller, there will be more people who unfortunately exceed the weight suitable for any horse.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Winters, would you be taking the same stance if the child's eating disorder had manifested as anorexia rather than a disorder that led to weight gain?