It’s no longer true that hard work…

[millikins]

I think being a racing jockey is one of the few equestrian disciplines left where sheer natural talent can get you to the top. Yes you can buy your way in if you have the money to buy the best horses but you still need to be able to ride them and obviously pay someone to train them. But at the same time a local lad from down the road who might never have seen a horse in the flesh before can take himself (or herself) off to racing school, this guarantees you a job at the end. You work hard, get noticed by your head lad/trainer and you pick up a few rides on the bosses own horses. You give them a good ride then you will get a better one in a "boys race" for another owner, do that well and you start picking up a few more rides. The more you ride the more you are seen the more rides you then get. You do not need to buy your way in you just need to be damned good at what you do.

To some extent. We had a go at pony racing, it was going through a big promotion at the time. Did all the qualifying through the Hunt, training days etc. When we got to the race day, there were I think 3 famous racing surnames in her race, and probably other less well known ones, these kids had access to the under height TB's and part breds, professional training etc. We had a great day out but we were cannon fodder, had anyone been honest about what 14.2hh pony racing is, we wouldn't have wasted our time.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

To some extent. We had a go at pony racing, it was going through a big promotion at the time. Did all the qualifying through the Hunt, training days etc. When we got to the race day, there were I think 3 famous racing surnames in her race, and probably other less well known ones, these kids had access to the under height TB's and part breds, professional training etc. We had a great day out but we were cannon fodder, had anyone been honest about what 14.2hh pony racing is, we wouldn't have wasted our time.

Oh pony racing is definitely about money to win! It's when these jockeys carry on their careers into the adult world of horse racing that they need to be good to succeed.

 

[DabDab]

I have sat on a few top horses in my time and sitting on paces that big is no mean feat in and of itself … it takes unbelievable core strength and balance and then to be able to ride effectively at the same time shows not only skill but incredible fitness. You dont get that strong and fit by having money (i really wish you did) it takes hours of riding and time in the gym … dedication. Yes money buys you time but it doesnt make the effort for you

But that's the thing isn't it - it's not sour grapes to point out that riding top level modern dressage horses is almost a completely different sport to riding dressage on the bulk of the leisure horse population. A lot of the pre-requisites for a good (as in high scoring) dressage test are there already in the horse and so the sport is really having the timing, the precision and the huge athletic ability as a rider to mould and finesse that.

But if that same rider can be seen also getting a decent tune out of Joey the cob who is built downhill, doesn't really like the school and is almost invariably behind the leg, then it's likely that they are using a substantially different toolkit than they are using on the dressage-bred warmblood.

It's like the difference between F1 and banger racing, obviously there's a massive crossover in skills and you would expect an F1 driver to be pretty nifty in any vehicle you stuck them in, but there are so many differences in approach required to get the best in either situation that it is really two different sports rather than two ends of the same sport.

It's not a problem that SJ or eventing have in the same way, but they do obviously have the glass ceiling in terms of raw horse capability.

But fundamentally nobody is getting near the top of any sport without spending a huge amount of time on it and yes, not having to work for a living helps massively with that.

 

[Kat]

I don't think the need for money at top level is new. Virginia Holgate (as she was then) wrote in her book that she wouldn't have been able to continue eventing without a sponsor. That was written in 1986, although she does say that at the time only the very top riders had sponsors.

And Captain Mark Philips wrote in his book about the struggle to fund competing. After he left the army he had to give up the chance of going to the Olympics again and turn professional (sponsorship wasn't allowed as an amateur and neither was making money from coaching etc) to continue. And that was despite being married to a Princess!

 

[oldie48]

Life in general is much easier for kids with money and supportive parents behind them but imo, success at any sport takes hard work, talent and dedication even with the money behind you. I'm sure there are lots of people out there who, if they had access to better horse power and more training would improve dramatically. On the other hand, putting on my tin hat yet again, most people I see are limiting their horse's natural ability because frankly they don't ride very well and they don't want to be bothered with trying to improve. That's fine in my book, but it does annoy me when people say that x or y is successful because they can buy a decent horse when the horse they own is as stiff as a plank, completely unschooled and fat and the rider is too! I've watched a lot of young talented horses being brought on and often they are not for the faint hearted.Training a horse to the stage that it can cope in a big show atmosphere is a skill in itself, managing to relax it sufficiently but maintaining enough positive tension to do a high level test with a horse that is "hot as hell" takes real skill and sitting on a pile of money doesn't help the rider.

 

[Muddy unicorn]

Nobody is disputing that the top riders are extremely talented and hard-working - but acknowledging that doesn’t get away from the fundamental point made by the OP many posts back:

we all sell ourselves the ultimate lie in horses, that hard work will get you to the top. I think, in the past this used to be true but isn’t any longer. You need serious backing from an experienced parent or money.

There is the odd outlier whose talent and tenacity got them noticed by people with money who have then provided them with the horsepower and practical backing in order for them to get to the top. But for the vast majority of top riders they are in that position because of talent and hat work of course but also money and/or connections.

That means that there are potentially many other riders who could possibly be just as good if not better but they’ll never be in a position to find out because they don’t have the money or connections. By effectively only looking for talent within a very small pool, equestrian sport could be missing out on many superstars of the future .. but I don’t know what the answer is

 

[oldie48]

Nobody is disputing that the top riders are extremely talented and hard-working - but acknowledging that doesn’t get away from the fundamental point made by the OP many posts back:





There is the odd outlier whose talent and tenacity got them noticed by people with money who have then provided them with the horsepower and practical backing in order for them to get to the top. But for the vast majority of top riders they are in that position because of talent and hat work of course but also money and/or connections.

That means that there are potentially many other riders who could possibly be just as good if not better but they’ll never be in a position to find out because they don’t have the money or connections. By effectively only looking for talent within a very small pool, equestrian sport could be missing out on many superstars of the future .. but I don’t know what the answer is

I completely agree with you but it is true in almost any sphere and equestrianism, even at the lower levels is pretty elitist to begin with sadly I don't think there's a lot that can be done about that as there's no short cuts to becoming a top class rider. You really need to be able to ride a wide variety of horses to develop your skills fully which will always put the one and two horse owner at a huge disadvantage.

 

[TPO]

OP hit the nail on the head "we sell ourself the ultimate LIE"

It's never been true that ONLY hard work will get you to the top, or even on the ladder.

The line has always been that you need at least 2 out of 3 of hard work, talent and money to make it. I'd propose that you also need more than a fair share of luck. Even the most talent, hard working, stupidly rich person needs luck in the horse game from that knocked pole that didn't fall to keeping horses sound (even with money to give them an advantage).

Take Phoebe Buckley as an example. She was spotted riding a pony by someone with horse power, connections and money to put PB on the right path that lead to Young Riders and 4*. I'm not taking anything away from PB's talent and work ethic at all, many given the same or "better" opportunities don't have the same competitive success, but how lucky was she to be in the right place at the right time to be spotted by the right person. There could have been people who had equal qualities just a county over. Equally there could be someone who could be a fantastic horse person but they have no access to horses full stop. PB had a privilege* even having access to a horse.

*again for the people at the back, not knocking PB or the work she put in at all.

I don't think influencers are in any way comparable to top level riders. Even as the self appointed Queen of tangents I don't understand that spiral on this thread at all. Tattle Life have a thriving 6 part thread on "equestrian influencers" if that's your deal. Threads on "influencers: have been attempted on here before but as a collective we're not the target audience and too long in the tooth for that sort of thing ?

 

[sport horse]

There is a humorously insightful quotation about luck that is often credited to the American Founding Father Thomas Jefferson: I'm a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work the more I have of it.

 

[Penguin_Toes]

Totally agree with this. These horses are not easy horses. The amount of skill it takes to ride them is something I can only dream of.
just watching Lottie ride Dark legend when he’s sharp (YouTube it) shows how good she is.

Wow, he has a nasty spin on him, I wouldn't have a hope in hell!!

 

[Barton Bounty]

I dont have social media so dont follow influencers, think it can have an unrealistic and detrimental effect on some people ?

 

[Red-1]

Hey, after saying I don't know what an influencer is, I just realised I do a monthly blog for a forage company. It doesn't feature their products, although I do use their bedding, it is just to raise the traffic on their page.

Does that make me an influencer?

 

[Barton Bounty]

Hey, after saying I don't know what an influencer is, I just realised I do a monthly blog for a forage company. It doesn't feature their products, although I do use their bedding, it is just to raise the traffic on their page.

Does that make me an influencer?

Im not sure about an influencer but definitely a vlogger ?

 

[Annagain]

I read an article yesterday about parents who can't afford to send their kids to £5 a week football clubs (important for their health, wellbeing, learning to play with other children and providing parents with a bit of a break too) without sacrificing their own meals which I think puts this whole argument into perspective. I'm not sure I have much sympathy for anyone complaining they don't have enough money to 'make it' in equestrian sports when we have horses, cars to get to the yard, money to buy even very basic tack, feed, supplements, rugs etc. Riding and horse owning is a privilege. I'm not saying we don't work hard for what we have but even doing it on a shoestring still means we have more than a lot of people.

There are kids out thre who can't afford to kick a ball or even eat. Maybe we should be comparing ourselves to them rather than the tiny percentage of very rich people who seem to get all our attention.

 

[WispyBegs]

I read an article yesterday about parents who can't afford to send their kids to £5 a week football clubs (important for their health, wellbeing, learning to play with other children and providing parents with a bit of a break too) without sacrificing their own meals which I think puts this whole argument into perspective. I'm not sure I have much sympathy for anyone complaining they don't have enough money to 'make it' in equestrian sports when we have horses, cars to get to the yard, money to buy even very basic tack, feed, supplements, rugs etc. Riding and horse owning is a privilege. I'm not saying we don't work hard for what we have but even doing it on a shoestring still means we have more than a lot of people.

There are kids out thre who can't afford to kick a ball or even eat. Maybe we should be comparing ourselves to them rather than the tiny percentage of very rich people who seem to get all our attention.

I totally understand what you’re saying but sorry to be blunt here, just because some people are worse off doesn’t mean that we aren’t allowed to be upset or disappointed that we can’t make it to the top of our sport on hard work alone.

Unfortunately, the world isn’t fair BUT we shouldn’t have to cut our dreams short and think ourselves lucky due to other peoples misfortune.

 

[Widgeon]

I read an article yesterday about parents who can't afford to send their kids to £5 a week football clubs (important for their health, wellbeing, learning to play with other children and providing parents with a bit of a break too) without sacrificing their own meals which I think puts this whole argument into perspective. I'm not sure I have much sympathy for anyone complaining they don't have enough money to 'make it' in equestrian sports when we have horses, cars to get to the yard, money to buy even very basic tack, feed, supplements, rugs etc. Riding and horse owning is a privilege. I'm not saying we don't work hard for what we have but even doing it on a shoestring still means we have more than a lot of people.

There are kids out thre who can't afford to kick a ball or even eat. Maybe we should be comparing ourselves to them rather than the tiny percentage of very rich people who seem to get all our attention.

I take your point but surely that is a different conversation? If we go all the way down the route you're suggesting then frankly none of us should ever complain about anything because we're not starving by the side of a road being ruled by the Taliban. I think the original post was about the ability to aspire to excellence (although I agree that influencers do not equal excellence) without being part of the 0.5%, or whatever the actual figure would be.

Society seems to be getting more and more polarised and I think it's really important to discuss perceived injustice (even in a pretty inconsequential area such as we are here) rather than just saying "well thank goodness I have enough food for this week, I'm relatively well off so best not complain!". If everyone did that the problem would only get worse faster.

 

[milliepops]

I take your point but surely that is a different conversation? If we go all the way down the route you're suggesting then frankly none of us should ever complain about anything because we're not starving by the side of a road being ruled by the Taliban. I think the original post was about the ability to aspire to excellence (although I agree that influencers do not equal excellence) without being part of the 0.5%, or whatever the actual figure would be.

Society seems to be getting more and more polarised and I think it's really important to discuss perceived injustice (even in a pretty inconsequential area such as we are here) rather than just saying "well thank goodness I have enough food for this week, I'm relatively well off so best not complain!". If everyone did that the problem would only get worse faster.

agreed. they are separate issues. i don't think anyone who has responded has had sour grapes, it's not whinging to acknowledge that the gap is probably ever widening, even between those of us lucky enough to be able to afford to keep a leisure horse and those who can literally jet their animals all over the place. I have mentioned on other threads that it's becoming eye watering, on a good graduate management wage, to just keep the very basic wheels turning while scrimping on just about everything... that's not taking away from people who have it worse than me, it's just an aside really, about expectations vs reality i suppose. A bit like the lie that you can achieve what you want if you work hard enough.... we were probably all told that if we went to uni and got good jobs the future would be rosy...

 

[Annagain]

I take your point but surely that is a different conversation? If we go all the way down the route you're suggesting then frankly none of us should ever complain about anything because we're not starving by the side of a road being ruled by the Taliban. I think the original post was about the ability to aspire to excellence (although I agree that influencers do not equal excellence) without being part of the 0.5%, or whatever the actual figure would be.

Society seems to be getting more and more polarised and I think it's really important to discuss perceived injustice (even in a pretty inconsequential area such as we are here) rather than just saying "well thank goodness I have enough food for this week, I'm relatively well off so best not complain!". If everyone did that the problem would only get worse faster.

agreed. they are separate issues. i don't think anyone who has responded has had sour grapes, it's not whinging to acknowledge that the gap is probably ever widening, even between those of us lucky enough to be able to afford to keep a leisure horse and those who can literally jet their animals all over the place. I have mentioned on other threads that it's becoming eye watering, on a good graduate management wage, to just keep the very basic wheels turning while scrimping on just about everything... that's not taking away from people who have it worse than me, it's just an aside really, about expectations vs reality i suppose. A bit like the lie that you can achieve what you want if you work hard enough.... we were probably all told that if we went to uni and got good jobs the future would be rosy...

And I take your point too but this is an issue in the whole of society. How many people in top jobs are Oxbridge graduates who, in turn, are from public school and whose parents can support them to do unpaid internships at top organisations or who have contacts who'll give them a chance - or who are just part of a society that favours white middle class middle aged men. I just think maybe the focus needs to be on improving people's life chances - their education, their ability to study and get qualifications (in whichever way they choose, through working or going to uni) - on creating opportunities in life to break that cycle of poverty and addressing inequalities in wider society rather than an entirely optional sport. In doing that in life, maybe it would feed into sports and the arts etc.

 

[Widgeon]

And I take your point too but this is an issue in the whole of society. How many people in top jobs are Oxbridge graduates who, in turn, are from public school and whose parents can support them to do unpaid internships at top organisations or who have contacts who'll give them a chance - or who are just part of a society that favours white middle class middle aged men. I just think maybe the focus needs to be on improving people's life chances - their education, their ability to study and get qualifications (in whichever way they choose, through working or going to uni) - on creating opportunities in life to break that cycle of poverty and addressing inequalities in wider society rather than an entirely optional sport. In doing that in life, maybe it would feed into sports and the arts etc.

I completely agree with everything you've said here, but in addition to that, I think it's always worth being aware of the existence of that discriminatory system - which I guess is what we're discussing here, albeit in a very small way. I worry that lots of people just take for granted the fact that rich white upper-class people will always come out on top, but it doesn't have to be that way - trying to remove discrimination within the system would also open up more opportunities for people who don't fit that description.

(Having read that back perhaps I should toddle off and renew my membership of the Labour party? Tear down the mansions! Redistribute the wealth! Joking aside I realise how idealistic that all sounds, sorry)

 

[blitznbobs]

Having moved through the wealth divide and trying to see what we as a couple did differently to our counterparts it all comes down to valuing education and hard work… i worked at school (was a nerd didnt party etc) to get into uni i then worked at uni to get a good career… i then worked to send my husband back to uni and from there his drive and ambition and me sorting home while he left on 6 week business trips took us to the place we are now. I get a bit tired of the ‘youve had it handed to you on a plate attitude’ from people who did take the year out or told me that i was daft for getting a levels and not getting a proper job at 16 … i think having spoken to hundreds of young people through my life the major difference between the haves and the have nots is self belief. Even when i was eating 22p a bag pasta every night for a week cos thats all i could afford (certainly didnt have a horse) i never felt that this was a) that bad and b) not a step in the right direction … anyone with drive, a good work ethic and self belief can make money but drive and self belief that seems to be missing in many people. Its a myth that you can have it all… you cant. You have to choose the bits of life you want and go after them full speed.

 

[claracanter]

The lorries at BE now blow my mind and it’s been in last 5 years that there has been such a gear change. Serious lorries everywhere and even the 7.5t are not scruffy. Trailers are really in the minority. It was refreshing being at BRC horse trials champs as it was ‘normal’.

Now you mention it, you are absolutely spot on about the BRC champs. Cheap skates in their trailers everywhere ???

 

[Widgeon]

i think having spoken to hundreds of young people through my life the major difference between the haves and the have nots is self belief.

I may be naive but I'm inclined to agree with you. There's so much I'd love to talk about around this but I haven't got time - need to go back to work!

 

[Annagain]

Having moved through the wealth divide and trying to see what we as a couple did differently to our counterparts it all comes down to valuing education and hard work… i worked at school (was a nerd didnt party etc) to get into uni i then worked at uni to get a good career… i then worked to send my husband back to uni and from there his drive and ambition and me sorting home while he left on 6 week business trips took us to the place we are now. I get a bit tired of the ‘youve had it handed to you on a plate attitude’ from people who did take the year out or told me that i was daft for getting a levels and not getting a proper job at 16 … i think having spoken to hundreds of young people through my life the major difference between the haves and the have nots is self belief. Even when i was eating 22p a bag pasta every night for a week cos thats all i could afford (certainly didnt have a horse) i never felt that this was a) that bad and b) not a step in the right direction … anyone with drive, a good work ethic and self belief can make money but drive and self belief that seems to be missing in many people. Its a myth that you can have it all… you cant. You have to choose the bits of life you want and go after them full speed.

It's hard to have self belief when you're the third or fourth generation of a family that has never worked, that has never valued education because it's never worked for them, when you have no an example to follow and you don't feel that anyone cares about you or your education.

I was involved, in a very small way, with a project where a large public sector construction project in a deprived area was taking on apprentices. 90% of them were from homes with no working adults. Following the collapse of heavy industry 30 years before, their parents and grandparents hadn't worked for decades with some too unwell to work as a result of working in that industry. Their parents had their lives set out for them when the industry existed - they were told they didn't need education as they had a job lined up - albeit one that would potentially wreck their health so they believed their kids didn't either. Then it was all ripped apart and they were offered retraining but that didn't give them a job either so the little education they had didn't do them any good. Why would they encourage their kids to learn or even think learning was possible for them? If the kids have seen all this happening, why would they think that hard work and drive is enough?

The apprentices started at 11am for the first week, with their start time getting earlier by half an hour every week until they started at 7 like the other staff. There was uproar amongst the other staff with some even going to the media to complain but after 6 months, over 80% were still there. On other similar projects the dropout rate was as much as 70%. Many didn't even have an alarm clock (this was before smartphones) and certainly nobody to show them how to get up, get ready for work, to be at the bus stop in time etc. You could say it's their fault if they're not committed or you could recognise it's a set of skills they just don't have and help them to learn them.

 

[Widgeon]

It's hard to have self belief when you're the third or fourth generation of a family that has never worked, that has never valued education because it's never worked for them, when you have no an example to follow and you don't feel that anyone cares about you or your education..

Absolutely - this is one of things I wanted to say but wasn't articulating very well, so I deleted my draft. It's a societal problem isn't it, there's only a limited amount of blame (for want of a better word) that you can place on individuals.

You could say it's their fault if they're not committed or you could recognise it's a set of skills they just don't have and help them to learn them.

Exactly! One of the things that frustrates me most is the blame culture that our media perpetuates - it's like trying to shame overweight people into becoming thin. We *know* it's hurtful and doesn't work, so why do we keep trying? Much better to ditch the idealism and value driven solutions, and come up with a pragmatic and functional approach like your employer.

 

[Ellibelli]

It's hard to have self belief when you're the third or fourth generation of a family that has never worked, that has never valued education because it's never worked for them, when you have no an example to follow and you don't feel that anyone cares about you or your education.

I was involved, in a very small way, with a project where a large public sector construction project in a deprived area was taking on apprentices. 90% of them were from homes with no working adults. Following the collapse of heavy industry 30 years before, their parents and grandparents hadn't worked for decades with some too unwell to work as a result of working in that industry. Their parents had their lives set out for them when the industry existed - they were told they didn't need education as they had a job lined up - albeit one that would potentially wreck their health so they believed their kids didn't either. Then it was all ripped apart and they were offered retraining but that didn't give them a job either so the little education they had didn't do them any good. Why would they encourage their kids to learn or even think learning was possible for them? If the kids have seen all this happening, why would they think that hard work and drive is enough?

The apprentices started at 11am for the first week, with their start time getting earlier by half an hour every week until they started at 7 like the other staff. There was uproar amongst the other staff with some even going to the media to complain but after 6 months, over 80% were still there. On other similar projects the dropout rate was as much as 70%. Many didn't even have an alarm clock (this was before smartphones) and certainly nobody to show them how to get up, get ready for work, to be at the bus stop in time etc. You could say it's their fault if they're not committed or you could recognise it's a set of skills they just don't have and help them to learn them.

And those who were too unwell to work as a result of working in industry were probably be in an industry that built this bl@@dy country and gave those that had "the drive" their opportunities

 

[blitznbobs]

It IS hard to have self belief and its about how we address that - if everyone is telling you ‘you cant’ all the time it takes a unique kind of person to say ‘bugger that im going to anyway’ but that is what im trying to get at the ‘nitty gritty ‘ of privilege is not money but self belief … if we could crack that we would have a much more level playing field…

but im definitely not saying that is easy.

 

[ihatework]

Having moved through the wealth divide and trying to see what we as a couple did differently to our counterparts it all comes down to valuing education and hard work… i worked at school (was a nerd didnt party etc) to get into uni i then worked at uni to get a good career… i then worked to send my husband back to uni and from there his drive and ambition and me sorting home while he left on 6 week business trips took us to the place we are now. I get a bit tired of the ‘youve had it handed to you on a plate attitude’ from people who did take the year out or told me that i was daft for getting a levels and not getting a proper job at 16 … i think having spoken to hundreds of young people through my life the major difference between the haves and the have nots is self belief. Even when i was eating 22p a bag pasta every night for a week cos thats all i could afford (certainly didnt have a horse) i never felt that this was a) that bad and b) not a step in the right direction … anyone with drive, a good work ethic and self belief can make money but drive and self belief that seems to be missing in many people. Its a myth that you can have it all… you cant. You have to choose the bits of life you want and go after them full speed.

My life path is probably not dissimilar.

BUT my challenge (for myself anyway, I don’t know yours) is that I am white, middle class and had 2 parents who contributed some good genetics and were sufficiently competent to give me the life skills to be able to work hard.

So while I will never be the mega loaded that some of these elite riding kids are, I still had a level of Privilage that isn’t available to a not insignificant proportion of the population. So whilst I have worked hard and have created to some extent my own luck - I started from a position further up the ladder than some.

I suppose what I’m saying is it isn’t all about hard work. I think there is a shed load of luck involved, ie - where you were born, parents, significant life events at key time points.

 

[honetpot]

OP hit the nail on the head "we sell ourself the ultimate LIE"

It's never been true that ONLY hard work will get you to the top, or even on the ladder.

The line has always been that you need at least 2 out of 3 of hard work, talent and money to make it. I'd propose that you also need more than a fair share of luck. Even the most talent, hard working, stupidly rich person needs luck in the horse game from that knocked pole that didn't fall to keeping horses sound (even with money to give them an advantage).

Take Phoebe Buckley as an example. She was spotted riding a pony by someone with horse power, connections and money to put PB on the right path that lead to Young Riders and 4*. I'm not taking anything away from PB's talent and work ethic at all, many given the same or "better" opportunities don't have the same competitive success, but how lucky was she to be in the right place at the right time to be spotted by the right person. There could have been people who had equal qualities just a county over. Equally there could be someone who could be a fantastic horse person but they have no access to horses full stop. PB had a privilege* even having access to a horse.

*again for the people at the back, not knocking PB or the work she put in at all.

I don't think influencers are in any way comparable to top level riders. Even as the self appointed Queen of tangents I don't understand that spiral on this thread at all. Tattle Life have a thriving 6 part thread on "equestrian influencers" if that's your deal. Threads on "influencers: have been attempted on here before but as a collective we're not the target audience and too long in the tooth for that sort of thing ?

I met PB when she was a groom as a young teenager, when our horse was at full livery, as soon as saw her, just humping a hay net, I thought, hard worker. No matter that she made the right contact at the right time, she has also had to work to make those contacts.
Both of my daughters rode, so I have seen any number of teenage girls and boys on livery yards, pony club, shows, and training with international riders who want to make it, but it is very rare to see driven intensity at a young age. I have known teenagers who have been bought horses and equipment for eye watering amounts of money, attended expensive training on a regular basis with international riders, and their mothers have told me tricks on how to get their children face and name known, to increase their chances to be for YR teams. What they needed to succeed you can not buy, so even if they had got that ride on the very good horse, they didn't have the mental capacity to turn that in to a career. That's not just wanting to ride and ride well, but wanting to put in the hours, before you even get that chance, and then keeping it up.
You could argue that because of her background that she had disadvantages that most young people starting in horses do not have, she says herself she, just not being married young and wanting a career in horses was not the norm, so I think she has had to work far harder than most to get that 'lucky' break, and like I say as a teenager, I think she may have been about fourteen, her determination stood out.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12522...UWIWpWMuesxs-WP2JjhXArVVejbkjINCHavA13sw1oI7M

It's a bit like becoming a top ballet dancer, you can be in ballet school, and be extremely talented, someone spots the quality in your work that suits a role they are casting, but you have to convert that chance, to train and progress, or you stay in small roles.

As to influencers, if you have been in and around horses for as long as I have, you have seen lots of fads and fashions, the difference is someone is trying to make money out of pushing them, depending on your view, in a more subtle way, and people hope the gloss will rub off on them. I don't HH forum members are their main target audience, if they are like me, the questions are, does it work, can I make it my self, and what does it cost? Then it may be I have one at the bottom of a storage crate. I have a set of purple everything, from when that is all one daughter wanted. I look at my homemade leg pads and saddle cover with rye nostalgia.

 

[TPO]

I met PB when she was a groom as a young teenager, when our horse was at full livery, as soon as saw her, just humping a hay net, I thought, hard worker. No matter that she made the right contact at the right time, she has also had to work to make those contacts.
Both of my daughters rode, so I have seen any number of teenage girls and boys on livery yards, pony club, shows, and training with international riders who want to make it, but it is very rare to see driven intensity at a young age. I have known teenagers who have been bought horses and equipment for eye watering amounts of money, attended expensive training on a regular basis with international riders, and their mothers have told me tricks on how to get their children face and name known, to increase their chances to be for YR teams. What they needed to succeed you can not buy, so even if they had got that ride on the very good horse, they didn't have the mental capacity to turn that in to a career. That's not just wanting to ride and ride well, but wanting to put in the hours, before you even get that chance, and then keeping it up.
You could argue that because of her background that she had disadvantages that most young people starting in horses do not have, she says herself she, just not being married young and wanting a career in horses was not the norm, so I think she has had to work far harder than most to get that 'lucky' break, and like I say as a teenager, I think she may have been about fourteen, her determination stood out.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12522...UWIWpWMuesxs-WP2JjhXArVVejbkjINCHavA13sw1oI7M

It's a bit like becoming a top ballet dancer, you can be in ballet school, and be extremely talented, someone spots the quality in your work that suits a role they are casting, but you have to convert that chance, to train and progress, or you stay in small roles.

As to influencers, if you have been in and around horses for as long as I have, you have seen lots of fads and fashions, the difference is someone is trying to make money out of pushing them, depending on your view, in a more subtle way, and people hope the gloss will rub off on them. I don't HH forum members are their main target audience, if they are like me, the questions are, does it work, can I make it my self, and what does it cost? Then it may be I have one at the bottom of a storage crate. I have a set of purple everything, from when that is all one daughter wanted. I look at my homemade leg pads and saddle cover with rye nostalgia.

You've totally missed my point. PB was just a well known example and I am not for a minute taking away from her talent and hard work.

She was spotted by someone who could help her and was close (location) to Tania Kyle and tania took PB "under her wing" as a young teenager. That was luck, of she hadn't lived close by or if Tania didn't want a 13yr old on the yard things might have been different. I never said it was easy or that PB didn't work for it but she was offered an opportunity that isn't afforded to everyone.

Like I also said there are others who appear to have had it easier growing up in a horsey environment, with parents who've succeeded in the industry, money, support, access and so it goes on who haven't achieved the same competitive success as PB. But this is not about PB and definitely not about taking anything away from her achievements.

It's that you need a massive dose of luck to succeed [in any sport].

 

[teapot]

I can see the football point in a different light though.

We’re kidding ourselves if we think equestrianism is as accessible to get into, ie the very bottom of the ladder for someone to start at, as say football, hockey, rugby etc. Let alone further up when the need for money really does kick in.

So if you have two talented kids, one wants to ride, one wants to play football, neither with a lot of cash to spare/just an average family, the one who wants to play football probably has a better chance of getting somewhere…