It happened again.

[J_sarahd]

Not sure if anyone remembers my issues with Nova last year where she was extremely nappy. Some of you saw the video. Well, she has done the same today, almost exactly a year to the day.

I treated her for ulcers last time so I will obviously scope again, especially as I’m still covered. I think! I’ll have to check with the insurers tomorrow. But I was wondering if anybody had any other ideas as to why.

She was fine to tack up, been fine on the ground, she was ridden on Wednesday and was really good. She’s had 4 days off due to work/dentist/life. Today, she had an animal communicator (I know some people don’t believe in that but she said some very interesting things!) and apparently could be mentally tired.

There were no other horses out so maybe feeling insecure but it felt more than just insecure napping.

She is fed:
Hi-fi molasses free
Baileys lo cal balancer
Magnesium
Regumate
Lots of hay - 10-12kg overnight and out from 8-4 with additional hay

She’s fed ponease ulc maintenance before I ride and if I’ve not ridden for a bit, I give her some in her tea.

People at the yard just thinks she’s being difficult/lazy but I know she isn’t!

Any ideas (apart from ulcers)? No video this time but if anyone who hasn’t seen last year’s wants to see it PM me.

ETA: her ulcers were treated last December and she was still slightly nappy until around April time. She has also been scoped clear since.

 

[Zoeypxo]

Did she have a full workup to see what may be causing the ulcers ?

 

[Bellaboo18]

I was going to say the obvious would be the ulcers have returned because you've not found the cause.

 

[J_sarahd]

She has had a work up and regularly been seen by my physio. Would ulcers caused by pain not have returned sooner? She had grade 2 squamous ulcers that were apparently healing on their own, so original vet thought they were caused by racing lifestyle.

Absolutely not disputing that it could be ulcers!

 

[ihatework]

I’ve known a couple of mares show behaviour changes this time of year, general working theory around daylight hours and/or change in hormone cycles/shutting down

 

[J_sarahd]

I’ve known a couple of mares show behaviour changes this time of year, general working theory around daylight hours and/or change in hormone cycles/shutting down

My friend said maybe it’s something like this but I wondered if her being on regumate would counteract it?

 

[ycbm]

I looked out some research for poiuytrewq recently. Both calcium and magnesium and calcium regulating hormones in the blood drop as the days get shorter. Poor behaviour is linked with calcium and magnesium deficiencies and I would be supplementing both.
.

 

[J_sarahd]

I looked out some research for poiuytrewq recently. Both calcium and magnesium and calcium relating hormones in the blood drop as the days get shorter. Poor behaviour is linked with calcium and magnesium deficiencies and I would be supplementing both.
.

This is interesting. She is already on 5g magnesium a day so I’ll buy a calcium supp and see if that helps

 

[CanteringCarrot]

On a supplement related note...

Does anyone think that Vitamin E plays a role? Or do you still have plenty of green healthy grass there?

That's just another thing that changes in the winter. I always supplemented and I thought that it made my horse feel better in his body/muscles vs when I didn't. I have no idea if that was just all in my head though

 

[J_sarahd]

On a supplement related note...

Does anyone think that Vitamin E plays a role? Or do you still have plenty of green healthy grass there?

That's just another thing that changes in the winter. I always supplemented and I thought that it made my horse feel better in his body/muscles vs when I didn't. I have no idea if that was just all in my head though

Thank you! I’ll definitely try this if the added calcium doesn’t work

 

[asmp]

Has she had her saddle checked recently? one of ours started napping when his saddle was hurting him.

 

[Wishfilly]

This is probably obvious but are there any management changes at this time of year, even just moving between paddocks etc? The fact that it's happened at the same time of year suggests that's a factor in some way.

I agree about mares especially having changes in temperament with the shorter days. I also think feeling cold can make some horses sharper/more sensitive (although I've got nothing really to base this on).

 

[ycbm]

This is interesting. She is already on 5g magnesium a day so I’ll buy a calcium supp and see if that helps

5g of elemental magnesium or 5g of magnesium oxide? Mine's on 20g magnesium oxide.
.

 

[J_sarahd]

Has she had her saddle checked recently? one of ours started napping when his saddle was hurting him.

She had it checked in July, so it could be that but last year she had it checked in October, a couple of weeks before going like this.

This is probably obvious but are there any management changes at this time of year, even just moving between paddocks etc? The fact that it's happened at the same time of year suggests that's a factor in some way.

I agree about mares especially having changes in temperament with the shorter days. I also think feeling cold can make some horses sharper/more sensitive (although I've got nothing really to base this on).

So last year she was out in her own paddock and this year she is out with another. She’s much happier out with him and it hasn’t really caused any napping behaviour except for when she has been in season.

5g of elemental magnesium or 5g of magnesium oxide? Mine's on 20g magnesium oxide.
.

Magnesium oxide. I can definitely increase the dose. The feeding guides say between 5 and 10g per day for horses and she’s quite a petite girl so went for 5g as a start.

 

[ycbm]

Magnesium oxide. I can definitely increase the dose. The feeding guides say between 5 and 10g per day for horses and she’s quite a petite girl so went for 5g as a start.

I'd go for 20g, watch her pee and if it's very cloudy, reduce the dose until it goes a bit more clear.

 

[J_sarahd]

I'd go for 20g, watch her pee and if it's very cloudy, reduce the dose until it goes a bit more clear.

Ooh didn’t know that about their wee/magnesium. Thank you for your help, as always!

 

[toppedoff]

I looked out some research for poiuytrewq recently. Both calcium and magnesium and calcium relating hormones in the blood drop as the days get shorter. Poor behaviour is linked with calcium and magnesium deficiencies and I would be supplementing both.
.

That's really interesting, learning something new everyday!

 

[McGrools]

I’ve got some magnesium on order for my mare. Can’t wait for it to arrive xx

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I would look at the feed maybe strip it right back baileys low cal has molasses in it, hifi has alfalfa in it both my horses react to both in a negative way.

I also think she could do with a proper long break to really just chill out I mean out 24 -7 she is still very young, some horses just can't cope with too much at such a young age.

 

[J_sarahd]

I would look at the feed maybe strip it right back baileys low cal has molasses in it, hifi has alfalfa in it both my horses react to both in a negative way.

I also think she could do with a proper long break to really just chill out I mean out 24 -7 she is still very young, some horses just can't cope with too much at such a young age.

Thank you, I’ll be looking at her feed. She was on a different feed last year due to needing to put on weight but I’ll compare and try something else.

She will be getting a break but I don’t want to give her a break until I figure out what’s wrong with her especially as this is the second year it’s happened and she had a 3 month break last year. She’s had lots of breaks throughout the year - admittedly not proper long ones but 2-4 weeks at a time quite frequently.

 

[ycbm]

On a supplement related note...

Does anyone think that Vitamin E plays a role? Or do you still have plenty of green healthy grass there?

That's just another thing that changes in the winter. I always supplemented and I thought that it made my horse feel better in his body/muscles vs when I didn't. I have no idea if that was just all in my head though

Vitamin E deficiency tends to make them quieter and difficult to keep weight on, in my experience.

I now always supplement vit E from December onwards.
.

 

[J_sarahd]

Vitamin E deficiency tends to make them quieter and difficult to keep weight on, in my experience.

I now always supplement vit E from December onwards.
.

This is very interesting. Which vit e do you use? I’ll definitely think about adding it but I just got a bit overwhelmed by the choice/differences

 

[ycbm]

This is very interesting. Which vit e do you use? I’ll definitely think about adding it but I just got a bit overwhelmed by the choice/differences

I think for the purposes of replacing sunshine on green grass in winter it doesn't matter which you use. Just remember that synthetic versions are only half used by the horse* and it looks half the price but you have to feed twice as much to get the same effect, so it's not.

If you use one without selenium, you might need to add selenium, depending on what else you're feeding. Beware not to over dose selenium it's extremely toxic in very small amounts and can make their feet fall off, if they don't die. (Pharr Lapp).

I tend to feed Forageplus because I trust them.





* I love the reasoning for this that a forum member once gave us. The molecule isn't symmetrical and, let's say, the natural version is all left handed. The synthetic version is half left handed and half right handed, and the horse can only absorb the left handed version. Fun, innit?
.

 

[J_sarahd]

I think for the purposes of replacing sunshine on green grass in winter it doesn't matter which you use. Just remember that synthetic versions are only half used by the horse* and it looks half the price but you have to feed twice as much to get the same effect, so it's not.

If you use one without selenium, you might need to add selenium, depending on what else you're feeding. Beware not to over dose selenium it's extremely toxic in very small amounts and can make their feet fall off, if they don't die. (Pharr Lapp).

I tend to feed Forageplus because I trust them.





* I love the reasoning for this that a forum member once gave us. The molecule isn't symmetrical and, let's say, the natural version is all left handed. The synthetic version is half left handed and half right handed, and the horse can only absorb the left handed version. Fun, innit?
.

Thank you! This is what I was thinking, I’d probably naturally go for the cheapest one but if it isn’t the most economical then there’s no point going for that one. This is so interesting

 

[Skib]

So last year she was out in her own paddock and this year she is out with another. She’s much happier out with him and it hasn’t really caused any napping behaviour except for when she has been in season

I ride a mare that naps. As did my previous share. And I too ride alone.
But horses are herd animals. It isnt natural for horses to go out on their own and if you are separating the mare from her field companion, that could cause her to nap to ask to return to the other horse.

 

[ycbm]

I ride a mare that naps. As did my previous share. And I too ride alone.
But horses are herd animals. It isnt natural for horses to go out on their own and if you are separating the mare from her field companion, that could cause her to nap to ask to return to the other horse.

The issue was not the napping as I understood it, but the change from previous behaviour.
.

 

[lottiepony]

It's such a tricky one!
I've been on quite the journey with my gelding and won't bore you with the details but he is ultra sensitive, a complete kronk and I know him inside out so know when something is up. However there a few points that I think would be worth considering so here is my 10 pence worth...

Speak to a qualified independent nutritionist. If you're horse has potential issues and known history they will get them on to the exact correct diet. Everyone will have difference experiences with supplements etc but making sure the basics are right is key.
Find the body work professionals who make the difference. My horse has physio, chiropractor, osteopath and Masterson treatments (lucky thing lol) I find the key man is the chiro, that method without a doubt does things that the others don't and I know exactly when my fella needs to see him if something changes in his behaviour, I notice his behaviour change first before we see any ridden issues.
This year he's started being seen by Tom Beech and it has been very interesting to hear the views and opinions of someone who genuinely looks at the whole horse. I've made changes to his management and put him recommended supplements and it has made a difference. I have to be much more aware of seasonal changes than I was prepared for, the devil is in the detail.

When I talk about my horse I am very aware of how mental I must sound as it is all now small minute things I can pick up on and then take action but you know your horse so trust yourself and try to find the answers.
If she has got ulcers again then I would be thinking carefully as to why as they are often secondary. The slight bore is if you go looking you may find out more than you bargained for!
It's a minefield and a continual learning process so don't despair.

 

[J_sarahd]

The issue was not the napping as I understood it, but the change from previous behaviour.
.

Thank you - yes, it’s the complete change in behaviour. She is a nappy horse in terms of being insecure on her own - which I get, she’s 4 and an ex racehorse! But the napping wasn’t her normal napping - it was really not wanting to go forward or work properly. All horses were in so it could’ve been that there was no other horses around her but the reaction felt more than that.

 

[J_sarahd]

It's such a tricky one!
I've been on quite the journey with my gelding and won't bore you with the details but he is ultra sensitive, a complete kronk and I know him inside out so know when something is up. However there a few points that I think would be worth considering so here is my 10 pence worth...

Speak to a qualified independent nutritionist. If you're horse has potential issues and known history they will get them on to the exact correct diet. Everyone will have difference experiences with supplements etc but making sure the basics are right is key.
Find the body work professionals who make the difference. My horse has physio, chiropractor, osteopath and Masterson treatments (lucky thing lol) I find the key man is the chiro, that method without a doubt does things that the others don't and I know exactly when my fella needs to see him if something changes in his behaviour, I notice his behaviour change first before we see any ridden issues.
This year he's started being seen by Tom Beech and it has been very interesting to hear the views and opinions of someone who genuinely looks at the whole horse. I've made changes to his management and put him recommended supplements and it has made a difference. I have to be much more aware of seasonal changes than I was prepared for, the devil is in the detail.

When I talk about my horse I am very aware of how mental I must sound as it is all now small minute things I can pick up on and then take action but you know your horse so trust yourself and try to find the answers.
If she has got ulcers again then I would be thinking carefully as to why as they are often secondary. The slight bore is if you go looking you may find out more than you bargained for!
It's a minefield and a continual learning process so don't despair.

Thank you - lots to read through and digest there!

 

[Boughtabay]

My late mare was an incredibly laid back personality but there was 1 week in spring and 1 week in late autumn/winter (I assume were hormone related) that she’d have a complete personality shift. The autumn change was always more dramatic than the spring one. I didn’t investigate as she went back to normal immediately after … but I was always on the look out for “that week” where we just hold on tight and hope for the best other than that I’d have put her on the “straightforward horse” thread!