It happened again.

[J_sarahd]

I lunged her today to see her move from the ground/check lameness and she was fine to lunge. Did put her ears back when she went past the mirror which is something she did for a while last year. I did then get on her and I could barely get her to walk without her back coming up, ears back etc so I didn’t push it.

A friend suggested it might be due to riding in the dark with no other horses out as there are fields surrounding the school. I’m going to try that tomorrow by getting in the school early and while most are still out.

I’ve also got her booked in for another scope on Monday morning, more to rule it out as I’m not 100% convinced it’s purely ulcers due to the symptoms happening between Nov and April/May time and nothing during the summer/when they’re out. Or if it is ulcers, it’s due to a maintenance issue during winter/when they’re in.

ETA: worked it out that last year when she was doing this, it happened 2 weeks after they started being in for the night and stopped about 2 weeks after they were out 24/7 again.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

I lunged her today to see her move from the ground/check lameness and she was fine to lunge. Did put her ears back when she went past the mirror which is something she did for a while last year. I did then get on her and I could barely get her to walk without her back coming up, ears back etc so I didn’t push it.

A friend suggested it might be due to riding in the dark with no other horses out as there are fields surrounding the school. I’m going to try that tomorrow by getting in the school early and while most are still out.

I’ve also got her booked in for another scope on Monday morning, more to rule it out as I’m not 100% convinced it’s purely ulcers due to the symptoms happening between Nov and April/May time and nothing during the summer/when they’re out. Or if it is ulcers, it’s due to a maintenance issue during winter/when they’re in.

Sorry you’re having these issues again Has she had her back xrayed?
My vet is the lead vet for BTRC and said they xray the majority of their backs, just to check for kissing spine as they can have varied symptoms and he said himself it’s common in ex racers.

Being ok on the lunge and then unhappy with you on her back would make me suspect kissing spine/back pain. Just an idea.

 

[J_sarahd]

Sorry you’re having these issues again Has she had her back xrayed?
My vet is the lead vet for BTRC and said they xray the majority of their backs, just to check for kissing spine as they can have varied symptoms and he said himself it’s common in ex racers.

Being ok on the lunge and then unhappy with you on her back would make me suspect kissing spine/back pain. Just an idea.

Yeah that’s going to be an avenue to explore definitely. Just feel so awful that there’s obviously something going on. Everyone at my yard thinks I’m the biggest pony patter for not “pushing her through”

 

[McGrools]

Yeah that’s going to be an avenue to explore definitely. Just feel so awful that there’s obviously something going on. Everyone at my yard thinks I’m the biggest pony patter for not “pushing her through”

Interesting to follow. I ride a Connemara twice a week who presents very similar. Fine on lunge but completely shuts down under saddle. Happy to hack ears pricked and willing. But in the school it’s a flat no. Had many investigations, SI injected, stifle surgery, ulcer meds. Vets thinking he is taking the p and needs pushing through. His owner is a bit soft on him and has allowed him to get his own way, I am a strong rider but can’t decide if it’s pure attitude or inability. Wish i knew the answer,

 

[J_sarahd]

Interesting to follow. I ride a Connemara twice a week who presents very similar. Fine on lunge but completely shuts down under saddle. Happy to hack ears pricked and willing. But in the school it’s a flat no. Had many investigations, SI injected, stifle surgery, ulcer meds. Vets thinking he is taking the p and needs pushing through. His owner is a bit soft on him and has allowed him to get his own way, I am a strong rider but can’t decide if it’s pure attitude or inability. Wish i knew the answer,

That’s the thing, if I know it ISN’T pain then I’m happy to try and ride her through it but I’m absolutely not prepared to do that until I’m 100% sure. Going to also see what she is like hacking and whether she feels happier.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Yeah that’s going to be an avenue to explore definitely. Just feel so awful that there’s obviously something going on. Everyone at my yard thinks I’m the biggest pony patter for not “pushing her through”

Oh I feel for you. I was told the same with my mare.. first time around she had severe liver damage (told to smack her and make her do it) second time she would try and launch me off mid canter everytime, well she had a huge chip in her hock. ‘Just take her for a blast she’s fresh’

Had many investigations, SI injected, stifle surgery, ulcer meds.

Judging that history it sounds pain to me. It’s harder in the school, especially circles if he had a stifle op.

 

[Bellaboo18]

Interesting to follow. I ride a Connemara twice a week who presents very similar. Fine on lunge but completely shuts down under saddle. Happy to hack ears pricked and willing. But in the school it’s a flat no. Had many investigations, SI injected, stifle surgery, ulcer meds. Vets thinking he is taking the p and needs pushing through. His owner is a bit soft on him and has allowed him to get his own way, I am a strong rider but can’t decide if it’s pure attitude or inability. Wish i knew the answer,

I'm assuming he didn't have stifle surgery or ulcer meds for no reason. Its far harder for them to work in the school, it doesn't sound like 'attitude' to me.

 

[McGrools]

That’s the thing, if I know it ISN’T pain then I’m happy to try and ride her through it but I’m absolutely not prepared to do that until I’m 100% sure. Going to also see what she is like hacking and whether she feels happier.

The pony I ride is like a different animal hacking v the school. If he was mine I would just forget the school and let him do what he enjoys. I don’t think many horses would chose the school given the choice

 

[McGrools]

I'm assuming he didn't have stifle surgery or ulcer meds for no reason. Its far harder for them to work in the school, it doesn't sound like 'attitude' to me.

I agree, but the vets keep signing him off as ok. Frustrating. It’s very much an under saddle issue but they didn’t even have a rider for him when he last went for progress check.

 

[J_sarahd]

The pony I ride is like a different animal hacking v the school. If he was mine I would just forget the school and let him do what he enjoys. I don’t think many horses would chose the school given the choice

Oh definitely agree. It’s just difficult with work - I’ll see what she is like this weekend.

 

[Squeak]

Have you had your saddle checked? That could also be something that would make her change between being lunged and ridden.

 

[J_sarahd]

Have you had your saddle checked? That could also be something that would make her change between being lunged and ridden.

It was last checked in July so very much could be that. Last year, she had it checked 3 weeks before this behaviour started

 

[Slightlyconfused]

How warm is she? How tight are her muscles?


A friend when the horses start coming in at night for the winter starts her tb on a low course of GG as the change in routine flares his ulcers. The same when he goes out 24/7 in the spring. It could be the change in the routine worries her but she doesnt show it externally

 

[J_sarahd]

How warm is she? How tight are her muscles?


A friend when the horses start coming in at night for the winter starts her tb on a low course of GG as the change in routine flares his ulcers. The same when he goes out 24/7 in the spring. It could be the change in the routine worries her but she doesnt show it externally

She is fairly sensitive to the cold, but has been a good temp. I’ve not really noticed any difference in muscle tightness.

That’s very interesting, as like I said it starts a fortnight after they’re in and stops a fortnight after they’re out. Thank you! It very well could be that

 

[J_sarahd]

So I tried to see if it was the dark/no horses around causing the issue. She lunged really well - a nice, forward trot. Got on her and walk-halt-walk transitions were normal, she was a bit spookier than usual though. Asked for trot and she just stopped, swung her bum out, ears back, head in the air. I gave her a little tap with my whip and she kicked out at it. So that’s that theory poo-pooed.

Walked her down the lane and she was quite nappy - calling and not walking in a straight line so I gave up with that too.

I’ve upped her magnesium and started her on calcium as I do very well think it could be that due to the timings of it all in relation to being in/out. I know that I won’t see any improvement straight away if it is that anyway.

I wish her gastroscope was sooner but there’s nothing I can do til then anyway. Not going to do anything with her til at least Wednesday now anyway.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Are you definitely sure the saddle fits July was nearly 6 months ago do you think she could have changed shape in that time?

Just saying because she seems happy on the lunge only other thing is to xray her spine.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

At this point I'm thinking back, saddle, or training (have to sort through physical before you get there, so I understand that). Ulcers are possible too. It's just the difference between lunging and riding that gets me a bit "stuck" on the first three I mentioned.

 

[J_sarahd]

Are you definitely sure the saddle fits July was nearly 6 months ago do you think she could have changed shape in that time?

Just saying because she seems happy on the lunge only other thing is to xray her spine.

I obviously can’t say for definite that it fits perfectly. It’s on my list of things to check. I think the fact she was like this last year is either a huge red herring or it’s something to do with this time of year/the management/pain exasperated by being in.

She has the physio on 1st and I’ve raised concerns with her about the problems. Obviously, depending on what happens with the gastroscope will determine where we go.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I obviously can’t say for definite that it fits perfectly. It’s on my list of things to check. I think the fact she was like this last year is either a huge red herring or it’s something to do with this time of year/the management/pain exasperated by being in.

She has the physio on 1st and I’ve raised concerns with her about the problems. Obviously, depending on what happens with the gastroscope will determine where we go.

I think if it's ulcers again I would definitely want some more investigations done because chances are it's pain and its not been found.

What saddle and numnah do you use?

 

[J_sarahd]

I think if it's ulcers again I would definitely want some more investigations done because chances are it's pain and its not been found.

What saddle and numnah do you use?

Definitely. I think because they were healing on their own last time, the vet thought they were from her time at the racing yard.

She is in a T8 Compact GP and currently has a Arma luxe cotton pad

 

[Zoeypxo]

Mine was very simular when she had ulcers, also had the same behaviour ,eventually escalated from a bit of napping to rearing. Had back and hocks x rayed showed mild hock changes and a close vertebrae under saddle. Hocks injected and in hand rehab lifting spine and working on core did the trick she never naps or does anything untoward these days. She wasnt lame at the time just these behaviour problems

 

[Birker2020]

I lunged her today to see her move from the ground/check lameness and she was fine to lunge. Did put her ears back when she went past the mirror which is something she did for a while last year. I did then get on her and I could barely get her to walk without her back coming up, ears back etc so I didn’t push it.

A friend suggested it might be due to riding in the dark with no other horses out as there are fields surrounding the school. I’m going to try that tomorrow by getting in the school early and while most are still out.

I’ve also got her booked in for another scope on Monday morning, more to rule it out as I’m not 100% convinced it’s purely ulcers due to the symptoms happening between Nov and April/May time and nothing during the summer/when they’re out. Or if it is ulcers, it’s due to a maintenance issue during winter/when they’re in.

ETA: worked it out that last year when she was doing this, it happened 2 weeks after they started being in for the night and stopped about 2 weeks after they were out 24/7 again.

Could she have arthritis somewhere, the reduced turnout as in at night and the cold weather can make existing undiagnosed arthritis ouchy at this time of year.

I wouldn't get too hung up about the timing being the same as last year might, as it could just be a coincidence and more likely she's slipped in the wet mud and tweaked something.

 

[J_sarahd]

Could she have arthritis somewhere, the reduced turnout as in at night and the cold weather can make existing undiagnosed arthritis ouch at this time of year.

I wouldn't get to hung up about the timing being the same as last year might, as it could just be a coincidence and more likely she's slipped in the wet mud and tweaked something.

Potentially. I’d never really thought of arthritis - I guess wrongly because of her age - but it will be something I will speak to my vet about

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Definitely. I think because they were healing on their own last time, the vet thought they were from her time at the racing yard.

She is in a T8 Compact GP and currently has a Arma luxe cotton pad

I just asked about saddle and pad because I know alot of blood horses can be ultra sensitive if things are not right with the saddle and or pad, Arabi would refuse to move with a pad on he disliked he only likes the nuumed wool ones even now, and if Louis saddle isn't right he naps and will do little rears. So they can be quite reactive to change or if something doesn't feel right.

Definitely worth getting saddle looked at again.

How is her back is the top line good no sign of muscle wastage or anything?

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Yeah, my PRE was weird about sheepskin pads, even if his saddle was fit to accommodate one just fine. Only horse I've encountered with that particular preference, personally.

I did know a horse that was seemingly fine on the ground and OK for groundwork, but would have fits when having to move forward under saddle or jump. Interestingly, it all stemmed from his hooves. He did have very thin soles, and I can't recall what else. I just remember he was fine after it being sorted.

So with horses, sometimes it's like, who knows! Hopefully you get to the bottom of it though.

I'm not sure how many walk-halt-walk transitions you did, but with a nappy horse, it's all about forward, so I, personally, wouldn't be schooling those, but I don't know if you were just doing one or two. I couldn't tell by your post.

 

[J_sarahd]

I just asked about saddle and pad because I know alot of blood horses can be ultra sensitive if things are not right with the saddle and or pad, Arabi would refuse to move with a pad on he disliked he only likes the nuumed wool ones even now, and if Louis saddle isn't right he naps and will do little rears. So they can be quite reactive to change or if something doesn't feel right.

Definitely worth getting saddle looked at again.

How is her back is the top line good no sign of muscle wastage or anything?

Oh yeah my old pony was like that. Bought a new saddle pad for him and it was ever so slightly thicker and he hated it. But I’ve used this saddle pad on Nova plenty of times before.

Back/topline is all looking quite good for a horse of her age/ex racehorse - no change/wastage

Yeah, my PRE was weird about sheepskin pads, even if his saddle was fit to accommodate one just fine. Only horse I've encountered with that particular preference, personally.

I did know a horse that was seemingly fine on the ground and OK for groundwork, but would have fits when having to move forward under saddle or jump. Interestingly, it all stemmed from his hooves. He did have very thin soles, and I can't recall what else. I just remember he was fine after it being sorted.

So with horses, sometimes it's like, who knows! Hopefully you get to the bottom of it though.

I'm not sure how many walk-halt-walk transitions you did, but with a nappy horse, it's all about forward, so I, personally, wouldn't be schooling those, but I don't know if you were just doing one or two. I couldn't tell by your post.

Yeah the transitions were just to see her reaction to my leg asking for walk as yesterday, she was really protesting to even walk.

 

[Squeak]

My only other thought re saddle fit is if you had it fitted in July, mine changed shape quite a lot between winter and summer so maybe it fits during the summer but if she drops even a slight amount (could be due to moving less from being stabled) then the timings could fit. I’ve had horses react to even just a miniscule change with their saddle.

I wouldn’t swear that it is the saddle but it would potentially be the cheapest on your list to check and is a good possibility.

 

[J_sarahd]

My only other thought re saddle fit is if you had it fitted in July, mine changed shape quite a lot between winter and summer so maybe it fits during the summer but if she drops even a slight amount (could be due to moving less from being stabled) then the timings could fit. I’ve had horses react to even just a miniscule change with their saddle.

I wouldn’t swear that it is the saddle but it would potentially be the cheapest on your list to check and is a good possibility

It’s on my ever-growing list of things to check! I’m not entirely convinced it is the saddle but always, always worth checking.

Personally, after a lot of reading last night, I’m leaning towards potentially early arthritis. As a TB who trained and was started at 1.5 years, it would make sense. The timings would make sense and other things that have cropped up over summer that I hadn’t given much thought/just put down to balance would make sense. Obviously not pinning everything on that and I’ll still get saddle etc checked but I will definitely be asking the vets about potential arthritis.

 

[scats]

I think it might be worth starting performance investigations and having a work up done. They might do a bone scan to give them an indication of where to start.

And I know I bleat on about it a lot but I’d also query suspensory issues given the reluctance to go forwards.

 

[ycbm]

It’s on my ever-growing list of things to check! I’m not entirely convinced it is the saddle but always, always worth checking.

Personally, after a lot of reading last night, I’m leaning towards potentially early arthritis. As a TB who trained and was started at 1.5 years, it would make sense. The timings would make sense and other things that have cropped up over summer that I hadn’t given much thought/just put down to balance would make sense. Obviously not pinning everything on that and I’ll still get saddle etc checked but I will definitely be asking the vets about potential arthritis.

I'm afraid your fears don't surprise me at all JS, and I think you should, if you can, get her to a hospital for a work up with a real orthopedic specialist. It could save you a lot of money. A friend of mine took in a mare who had been bucking occasionally, expecting a huge bill starting at the back end. As the horse walked in the specialist said "let's start at the neck" and found the problem immediately.
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