palo1
Well-Known Member
I now want to start a list of all the 'You are so lucky...' conversations that people have had. But I won't derail this interesting thread for that sort of venting hahahahahha!!!
Joe Midgely Clinics
- Thread starter Ample Prosecco
- Start date
I now want to start a list of all the 'You are so lucky...' conversations that people have had. But I won't derail this interesting thread for that sort of venting hahahahahha!!!
DizzyDoughnut
Well-Known Member
I want to be on a yard with some of you! People on my yard think Im weird for spending so much time on groundwork, when the horse is rideable they can't see how the groundwork will benefit anything. Mine are the only ponies on the yard that will come in from the field without even taking the slack out of the rope at all yet the people who get dragged out or make it back to the yard from the field looking pale and declare they thought they were going die are the ones who criticise me, apparently Im just luckly my ponies good, its nothing at all to do with the groundwork we do!
I wish I lived somewhere where I had access to people like Joe. We had a couple lessons with, I think the only NH type trainer here and it was not a good experience. So most of my learning is done online and I love reading posts like these!
I wish I lived somewhere where I had access to people like Joe. We had a couple lessons with, I think the only NH type trainer here and it was not a good experience. So most of my learning is done online and I love reading posts like these!
twiggy2
Well-Known Member
Start another thread, it will be a busy one for sure
palo1
Well-Known Member
Yes, and it goes for dogs as well...!!
The Xmas Furry
🦄 🦄
Late last autumn I'd been put on box rest the 1st time.....
There wasnt any problem at all with my lovely friends helping out, both fuzzies very accepting of the handling they were getting.
However, neither were regularly caught in headcollars by me and then marched into yard at a brisk walk on a taut short rope, tied up short, and then same marching to turn out.
This 3rd time of me back on box rest has had same lovely friends rallying around. The fuzzies had previously trained them not to be dominating, but have shown them how to relax, open a gate and let them walk at a steady pace onto yard, stand calmly whilst feet are picked out etc.
Neither is rude.
B fuzzy arrived with huge gaps in handling and many buttons installed by force, so had to be unpicked and then more user friendly buttons installed.
Its v worthwhile when you get the feedback that 'yours are so lovely and easy to do'. But no, it's not 'lucky' that mine are well behaved, its training put in for what I want.
Yes, I can honestly say they can go anywhere. B even made it onto a film set last year at last minute notice and conducted herself v well, then went on to meet the queen a fortnight later in a setting she'd never experienced before that overwhelmed others.
Trust and willingness to please buttons installed.
palo1
Well-Known Member
'You are so lucky...' LOL.
DizzyDoughnut
Well-Known Member
The NH trainer we tried here was so bad it was almost comical, she couldn't get that just escalating the pressure till the horse figured out what he was meant do would not work on my young pony, the more you escalte with him the more he'll just say no, but he loves learning you just have to ask calmly and fairly and he'll do pretty much anything you want, she said he needed more groundwork on manners, The next day I led him in a gale force wind past a chicken coup that had just blown up onto the stable roof with tarpaulin billowing from it and yes he was on his toes and and snorted at it but still walked fairly sensibly past it considering the conditions and he was only 2 or 3 at that time.
I like mine to be safe for anyone to handle just incase you ever need to just hand them to someone in an emergency or they escape or something. Plus who really enjoys being dragged about or having their horses feet flying about while doing simple things like coming out of the field its not my idea of a nice relaxing time but the people on my yard just seem to think there's nothing to be done about it and that's just the way their horse is all while mocking my groundwork sessions as unnecessary, but obviously I just got lucky with my calm sensible ponies
Boulty
Well-Known Member
Just posting to say I’m really enjoying this thread and the discussion and I’m considering contacting him to see if he could help me with a few little issues with the fuzzy thug mainly on the ground (he has literally no concept of personal space and is really bad at dealing with being frustrated / not getting what he wants when he wants it) but poss seeing if he could help me get the handbrake off in canter ridden as well (very very slowly chipping away at this & I think I am part of the problem but I think the pony is an equal part as he doesn’t really like work that requires effort on his part!) Will probably PM you at some point next week AE as I know you run some clinics with him that would be doable travel wise & I think away from home would probably be better as that’s where the worst issues show up / I don’t have anywhere really to work him on grass at yard and a lot of the issues on the ground mainly show up on grass in a clinic environment so guess would like to sound that out as a possible option vs seeing if he comes into my area at all
Kunoichi73
Beware... My Plants...
I'm another one who is really enjoying this thread. I'd love to attend some of these clinics as a spectator and wish I had a horse I could bring on the way some of you describe.
Ample Prosecco
Still wittering on
Repsonding to a question in the 'mistakes' thread. Yes Joe gets big and loud. But (as Buck Brannaman says) always offer the horse a good deal first. And another Buckism is that they will either take it, or wish they had.
Proviso: Joe does not 'get big' if the horse is in anyway confused or scared. So with Lottie I initially never escalated pressure. It was ask, then wait till she figured it out. No need to build the pressure up.
But if a horse 'gets it' but is ignoring you - or actively challenging you, then you need to step up. Because a horse will quickly learn to ignore aids and to escalate challenge if you don't address it.
A horse at camp was sharp off a spur but a lot less responsive to the leg. Spurs were taken away and horse was given a pre-signal: (breath plus energy/intent) then a squeeze. If no reaction to that then 'make it happen with whatever it takes'. Not dissimilar to the "ask once nicely, ask once firmy, then insist" instruction from a BHS school to sharpen up the horse. Or Lucinda Green's 3 stages. Woah with body and voice, whoa with legs, seat and hands, then 'feet on dashboard and teeth all ove the field'. (Not literally, obviously.) Or another Buck phrase "as little as possible but as much as necessary" re pressure.
Joe rode that horse and he used his legs very visibly ONCE. After that horse went off a breath. And rider achieved that too but also had to go through the process of pre-signal, squeeze, make it happen.
So Joe gets plenty big when he has too. But there is no emotion behind it and he reverts to inviting and soft and light the instant the horse responds. It is just a clear, authoritative response with legs, or flag, or rope or body.
One of the problems with this pursuit of lightness/softness with your horse is that people who never want to get big (or impose effective boundaries) get upset when things get a bit lively. I saw the same reactions with both Buck and with Rashid. Joe often gets it too: 'Why are you being so hard on my horse. I thought this was meant to be a gentle approach?"
Proviso: Joe does not 'get big' if the horse is in anyway confused or scared. So with Lottie I initially never escalated pressure. It was ask, then wait till she figured it out. No need to build the pressure up.
But if a horse 'gets it' but is ignoring you - or actively challenging you, then you need to step up. Because a horse will quickly learn to ignore aids and to escalate challenge if you don't address it.
A horse at camp was sharp off a spur but a lot less responsive to the leg. Spurs were taken away and horse was given a pre-signal: (breath plus energy/intent) then a squeeze. If no reaction to that then 'make it happen with whatever it takes'. Not dissimilar to the "ask once nicely, ask once firmy, then insist" instruction from a BHS school to sharpen up the horse. Or Lucinda Green's 3 stages. Woah with body and voice, whoa with legs, seat and hands, then 'feet on dashboard and teeth all ove the field'. (Not literally, obviously.) Or another Buck phrase "as little as possible but as much as necessary" re pressure.
Joe rode that horse and he used his legs very visibly ONCE. After that horse went off a breath. And rider achieved that too but also had to go through the process of pre-signal, squeeze, make it happen.
So Joe gets plenty big when he has too. But there is no emotion behind it and he reverts to inviting and soft and light the instant the horse responds. It is just a clear, authoritative response with legs, or flag, or rope or body.
One of the problems with this pursuit of lightness/softness with your horse is that people who never want to get big (or impose effective boundaries) get upset when things get a bit lively. I saw the same reactions with both Buck and with Rashid. Joe often gets it too: 'Why are you being so hard on my horse. I thought this was meant to be a gentle approach?"
CanteringCarrot
Well-Known Member
Really great post.
I've had to explain this before. There are times when I've had to get big and loud, but it's not done with or done out of emotion. It's also rather quick and you revert back to soft and light when the horse responds. This takes timing and feel that some riders/handlers just don't have naturally. On top of that, many tend to get too emotional or turn it into a fight/just draw it out for too long.
It's setting the boundary and the standard. Horses will respect that if it's clear, firm, and fair (not turned into some unjust dramatic battle). Even though my last ridden horse was so, so, sensitive and light, there were still the odd moments when I'd have a "big" moment of sorts and people would think it dramatic, or wonder why because he's "so nice" but part of the reason that he's "so nice" is because of how he's trained. Granted, he was a nice person, but the training played a role.
It's kind of funny though, most of the times when I've had to get "big" with that horse, or even my 2 year old, they sort of have a look on them that says, "right, fair enough!" If the communication is clear, consice, and not outrageous, they get it. They accept it.
There is the occasional horse that may try to "fight" a bit, but that's because they've been trained to, essentially. You've got some rewiring to do and it may look a tad different in comparison to one that was wired correctly from early on. Even then though, they'll get it.
A lot of it goes back to timing, feel, and understanding. So many riders don't have that, and can't be arsed to pursue it. Or they just don't know what they don't know.
SEL
Well-Known Member
This is such an interesting thread. I know I'm someone who used to be a bit "fluffy" but then I took on my freebie Appy with all her issues and I had to step up or have her put down. I actually think I'm now better with feel handling horses than I am as a rider.
Apparently she's a sweetie now and I'm very lucky. Blood, sweat, tears and bruises to get there but hey .....
palo1
Well-Known Member
I think it is difficult for people to signal authority or even clarity without accompanying emotion; it is really, really bound up in 'relationship' and 'emotions's stuff for us humand- maybe because of how we contextualise ideas about leadership and partnership etc but animals process stuff really differently. Something that all good animal trainers appear to have to me is the ability to control their emotions and to dial down their emotional input into training whilst still recognising the emotional state the animal may be in. That is where I think many people get tied up; animals ARE emotional but in training we shouldn't be trying to join in lol. Personally I love to use positive emotions and to really feel those when things are going well. I have seen some trainers, really excellent ones, be so emotionally neutral that it is a bit discombobulating (for me at least; I don't think horses or dogs particularly mind). However, I really love to share positive emotions albeit managed with my animals and I 'believe' that this is really beneficial to a partnership. It may actually be much less relevant to a trainer who does not own or live with an animal. The negative emotional stuff, the 'personal' feelings when things are going wrong, stress, fear, frustration etc should ideally never be taken into a training session with any animal; it's just not fair.
I think my dogs and horses have always picked up positively on my own sense of joy, satisfaction and pride so I like to include those as much as possible lol!! I expect they are sometimes bemused by my emotional input but over the years I have learnt to leave as much of the negative emotional stuff behind or to recognise it's presence and walk away or do something different. No-one really teaches that stuff but it is most definitely a vital part of any kind of training and has applications for working with other humans too...
I think my dogs and horses have always picked up positively on my own sense of joy, satisfaction and pride so I like to include those as much as possible lol!! I expect they are sometimes bemused by my emotional input but over the years I have learnt to leave as much of the negative emotional stuff behind or to recognise it's presence and walk away or do something different. No-one really teaches that stuff but it is most definitely a vital part of any kind of training and has applications for working with other humans too...
stangs
Well-Known Member
Maybe this is my background in rather extremist R+ , or my “trauma” from having seen just how much pressure people are willing to exert, but these sorts of statements make me very uncomfortable. Because it starts as a squeeze, then a tap with the stick, and then it’s an instructor smacking a horse so hard that they squeal, but still don’t go forward. (Just one example of many that I have of escalation becoming abuse - this wasn’t a confused, scared or in pain horse, he was just incredibly school sour.)
Now, I’m not saying that JM or any of these other trainers would do what I’ve mentioned above. Their excellent timing and horsemanship would mean they'd probably have solved the problem by that point. I just think it’s too easy for pros to give general guidelines about escalation and not discuss the limits, which is why the people like the aforementioned instructor, who was a very correct BHS horseman, exist. They’re used to horses that will respond eventually, so they keep going and going until they’re abusers without realising it.
Obviously, that limit will differ from horse to horse but there has to be a point where you say unequivocably that things have gone too far. If you don’t mention that, you end up with students who think it’s okay to just keep escalating (as per the trainer in DizzyDoughnut’s post).
Thanks to his background, my boy’s a master at ignoring pressure escalation. He is willing to withstand far more pressure than I am willing to escalate to - and, having watched his previous owners work with him, that’s a huge amount of ‘pressure’ (pain, to be realistic). Never escalating, waiting it out, channeling a sort of ‘quiet anger’ without changing my behaviour, and some R+, has had far more success with him than I think an amateur like me using escalation would have. And I thought the “small asks, rewarding the slightest improvement, and never yelling” is what the Old Man taught Rashid. I’m pretty sure a case like that comes up in one of his books (a horse who wouldn't trot?).
I’d love to watch one of these trainers work with a beach donkey/dead to the world sort, whose instinct is to plant and brace like the two horses I’ve mentioned.
palo1
Well-Known Member
I hear you. I think though that 'pressure' is just that; whacking a horse is always pointless and inflicting pain has no place in any training. It is interesting to remember too that ANY horse is sensitive enough to feel a fly landing on them so it's not about the physicality of pressure; it really is about timing and 'feel'. You can get big and intimidating/dominant/assertive without hurting or upsetting a horse.
palo1
Well-Known Member
Just wanted to add that today my sweet mare, having had a bit of a blast with a friend was asked to stand still as I wanted to remount having opened a gate. She knows how to do that perfectly and is actually blooming brilliant in that way. But today she was all a fidget; frustrated and lit up; wanting to move off before I was ready. That isn't acceptable to me; I understand her joie de vivre and love her for it but it is important that no matter how lit up, she must stand when asked. And she has been well trained to do that. So I growled at her for just a second or two. Job done. Standing nicely till asked to move off and then wheeeeee off we go again!! I was not cross at all but she wasn't listening to the normal cues so I had to add in more for clarity and certainty. No falling out, no frustration, no whacking or aggression; just, I hope, a stronger cue to really get her attention on the request. Literally as soon as she was still, loads of praise and scratches whilst I was hopping on. I think and hope it was very clear to her. She was perfectly happy to stand still every other time today too.
I think it is just about that sort of thing isn't it?CanteringCarrot
Well-Known Member
That still comes into play. You use as much or as little as necessary.
There are some instances when you do have to be louder or bigger though. Or some instances when the steps to get there are smaller and longer. In some cases, some commands/signals/aids are absolutes. An example of that for me would be the forward aid. The horse MUST go forward when asked to, and without much pressure. This can save your bacon in many instances. The same with "woah" or halt.
Now, if I'm teaching a horse piaffe in hand, it's more of a small asks and rewarding small improvements as we're bulling up to a proper piaffe. Same with a lot of my in hand trick training stuff.
Again, this goes back to feel. The answer to everything isn't "big and loud" nor is it "small asks and reward small improvements" it is a balancing act, really, and you employ both. It sounds counter-intuitive, but they go hand in hand. This does not confuse the horse when done correctly.
Getting "big and loud" doesn't always/necessarily entail yelling.
CanteringCarrot
Well-Known Member
Forgot to include this. Those horses were made that way because people either didn't listen to the horse, had sh*t timing, applied to release to the pressure (plays into timing), or were just confusing with their aids. The horse then shuts down. The horse can't understand what you're saying, and/or there was no release/reward for so long, that they believe that there simply won't ever be one. It's possible to work with these types, and you might be surprised how the right person can turn them around. It doesn't necessarily take force or loudness at all.
I think at times maybe you're thinking to black and white about it. Things with horses can be black and white to some extent, and have to be to some extent, but in some cases you go a bit gray for minute.
DizzyDoughnut
Well-Known Member
In slight defense of the trainer we used shebdidnt escalate things to a physical level she just escalated the waving of ropes and her carrot stick, the only thing that acheived was a furious frustrated pony who had no idea what she was actually wanting him to do. He holds a grudge and still makes faces now if we see her anywhere.
He is a very in your face pony and would spend all his time glued to your side if he could, I have had to escalate before to move him out of my space, but as I think it was canteringcarrot said its quick and unemotional and then we move on. It wasn't a physical escalation because we both know he's always going to overpower me physically I just made myself big and loud till he took notice and moved away then immediately stopped and carried on as normal. Now I very rarely have to escalate past saying a stern behave or a pointed finger and stern no in my best warning voice!
I think the key with him at least is not to escalate it into a battle, just make your point and move on and reward any try he makes at the right thing because he loves to get things right.
I've also realised lately that probably 90% of the times we have a blip, it's an issue with me not the pony, normally with my thoughts not matching what I'm asking him to do or telling him to do one thing while my body language is not matching that request. He is unbelievably perceptive of both my thoughts and body language and if they don't match with what I'm asking he gets frustrated. I'm a naturally quiet small kind of person who shrinks back so I'm having to work quite hard on asking him to do something and following it up with matching body language, and kind of really believing in what I'm asking. I've explained that really badly sorry. When I manage it, he responds to the smallest ask and it feels so light and amazing like we could go and conquer the world together, I just need to stop my mind wandering to all the random things that could go wrong and believe in what I'm asking.
He is a very in your face pony and would spend all his time glued to your side if he could, I have had to escalate before to move him out of my space, but as I think it was canteringcarrot said its quick and unemotional and then we move on. It wasn't a physical escalation because we both know he's always going to overpower me physically I just made myself big and loud till he took notice and moved away then immediately stopped and carried on as normal. Now I very rarely have to escalate past saying a stern behave or a pointed finger and stern no in my best warning voice!
I think the key with him at least is not to escalate it into a battle, just make your point and move on and reward any try he makes at the right thing because he loves to get things right.
I've also realised lately that probably 90% of the times we have a blip, it's an issue with me not the pony, normally with my thoughts not matching what I'm asking him to do or telling him to do one thing while my body language is not matching that request. He is unbelievably perceptive of both my thoughts and body language and if they don't match with what I'm asking he gets frustrated. I'm a naturally quiet small kind of person who shrinks back so I'm having to work quite hard on asking him to do something and following it up with matching body language, and kind of really believing in what I'm asking. I've explained that really badly sorry. When I manage it, he responds to the smallest ask and it feels so light and amazing like we could go and conquer the world together, I just need to stop my mind wandering to all the random things that could go wrong and believe in what I'm asking.
Ample Prosecco
Still wittering on
There is no one size fits all. Along with ‘ get big’ there is reward the try as CC says. And I mean really the tiniest little try. Which is fab at unlocking shut down horses.
Ample Prosecco
Still wittering on
Also good trainers can tell the difference between a horse ignoring you because they have learned they can, and one blocking you out because he’s traumatized (a shut down horse in learned helplessness).
Ample Prosecco
Still wittering on
Sorry one more thing: this style of training is much much better at addressing learned helplessness. English styles of training just seem to hardly ever release. And are more likely to use things like flashes etc which you can’t release. Joe makes a huge issue of the horse having a choice. And always, always being able to choose a no pressure option. Give a horse choices and they don’t feel helpless. And don’t shut down.
CanteringCarrot
Well-Known Member
I also have cafeteria horsemanship, or whatever the phrase is that was used up thread. I think I'm lucky in some respects.
The yard I first started on as a child was a bit of a plethora. An odd combination between jumpers and some western riders with many of us kids bouncing around between the two and sitting on all sorts of horses. The yard was owned by a family and this included 3 brothers that just spoke horse. Some were more fluent than others, but they just had a good down and dirty understanding of horse. Same with the YM. I learned so much. Sure, if I would've ridden at another yard I could've been further along in my riding or competing at a higher level, but looking back on it now, the education that I received and how it shaped me, is priceless.
We spent a lot of time on the ground in our initial lessons, and I felt like it took ages before I had my first canter. Nowadays I see kids not grooming or tacking up their own lesson/school horses, or trotting right away and cantering very soon after. It's all about the riding, but no horsemanship of true skill building. Then they get their own horse and they're just not adequately prepared, IMO. This could be area specific, but I see it a lot in my part of Germany; a country that produces top riders still, don't get me wrong.
The yard I first started on as a child was a bit of a plethora. An odd combination between jumpers and some western riders with many of us kids bouncing around between the two and sitting on all sorts of horses. The yard was owned by a family and this included 3 brothers that just spoke horse. Some were more fluent than others, but they just had a good down and dirty understanding of horse. Same with the YM. I learned so much. Sure, if I would've ridden at another yard I could've been further along in my riding or competing at a higher level, but looking back on it now, the education that I received and how it shaped me, is priceless.
We spent a lot of time on the ground in our initial lessons, and I felt like it took ages before I had my first canter. Nowadays I see kids not grooming or tacking up their own lesson/school horses, or trotting right away and cantering very soon after. It's all about the riding, but no horsemanship of true skill building. Then they get their own horse and they're just not adequately prepared, IMO. This could be area specific, but I see it a lot in my part of Germany; a country that produces top riders still, don't get me wrong.
CanteringCarrot
Well-Known Member
Yes. It all circles back to feel and being perceptive, or receptive maybe. There have been times when someone has said, "Oh he's scared" and I've looked at the horse who is clearly not scared, but is just not taking the rider or handler seriously because they just haven't forged the right kind of training relationship, and/or know that they can ignore.
On the other hand, I've also seen horses with their "worry baskets" overflowing and the rider/handler still pushing them and applying disastrous amounts of pressure.
TPO
🤠🏴
The thing is what you've described with the BHS trainer *isnt* what people like Joe do or what AE & CC have described.
What that BHS instructor did is nothing to do with escalation of pressure or horse training. That person didn't have the tools and/or emotions took over and/or was just cruel.
I've seen Joe & Richard Maxwell working with shutdown horses, and they have changed them in a session. It's not always that quick but it doesn't have to be a long, drawn out process. The quicker that the horse's mind is changed, the sooner it'll be happier.
Again, common sense isn't a flower that grows in everyone's garden. I don't think it's right to putthe onus on professionals to define where the limits of any escalation is. Anyone with any comparion or care for an animal wouldn't take things to extremes.
But there are a lot of idiots out there. I mean look at the people that hand their horses over to that "yah boi" idiots who jumps on decked up like a bull rider and then come on here to recommend. Heck, H&H even did a full page interview with him!!! Think of the good that could be done actually featuring good trainers.
Last edited:
Ample Prosecco
Still wittering on
Whatever happened to him? Jay? Jai?? He created an account pretending to be a fan I think. But kept saying I instead of he 
TPO
🤠🏴
Whatever happened to him? Jay? Jai?? He created an account pretending to be a fan I think. But kept saying I instead of he
Careful, you've said his name twice now. He's like Beetlejuice / Candyman
Don't say it again
Ample Prosecco
Still wittering on
This, plus Joe does proviso the circumstances in which you would not escalate. And you would not escalate for a shut down horse who pretty much defines ‘confused’ and not psychologically fit for the task. As in horses get like that when they don’t know what the human wants or why they are being punished repeatedly so just go into themselves and tolerate it. School sour to me is a description not an explanation and a school sour horse likely fears and resents and is confused by what happens in a school. So escalating is not something Joe would do in that situation.
Ample Prosecco
Still wittering on
By the way I like +ve Sr. I personally prefer ‘reward the try’ via pressure release or even ‘anticipated pressure’ - release. Ie Where a horse responds to the pre signal and no pressure is even used. Then it’s like dancing. Or telepathy! Negative reinforcement is how mares teach foals so I think it intuitively makes sense to horses. But going back to Cafeteria horsemanship, Tik also incorporates treat based training. And used it on the camp I went on with Amber.
DizzyDoughnut
Well-Known Member
On the shutdown topic, I bought a shutdown cob by accident last winter, what I thought I was buying was a steady unflappable horse and he was because he was so shutdown he just didn't even register or acknowledge anything happening in his environment. I think I rode him about 10 times before deciding that it wasn't fun for either of us.
I haven't really done much with him to get to this except some occasional basic groundwork showing him he has a choice in matters and even if he gets it wrong the world isn't going to end we'll just calmly correct it and move on and when he gets it right I praise it and reward with his new found favourite thing a neck scratch, previously he wouldn't even acknowledge you were touching him let alone show any enjoyment from it.
He's gone from not acknowledging or responding to anything in his environment to actively engaging with me and his surroundings and I now have a forward thinking responsive cob who loves a cuddle. Unfortunately just when we got to the point I thought we might trying riding again he went lame after trying to do an emergency stop and handbrake turn while playing a bit to enthusiastically in the field, now with all the groundwork and living on a hill he has changed shape so much his saddle doesn't even come close to fitting so we're now waiting to get a new one fitted, hopefully his new found enthusiasm for things carries over to the ridden part.
I'm sure a good professional could have acheived far more in a far shorter time but I'm no professional and have no set time frame I just make it up as I go along and learn as I go and try and do the best I can.
I haven't really done much with him to get to this except some occasional basic groundwork showing him he has a choice in matters and even if he gets it wrong the world isn't going to end we'll just calmly correct it and move on and when he gets it right I praise it and reward with his new found favourite thing a neck scratch, previously he wouldn't even acknowledge you were touching him let alone show any enjoyment from it.
He's gone from not acknowledging or responding to anything in his environment to actively engaging with me and his surroundings and I now have a forward thinking responsive cob who loves a cuddle. Unfortunately just when we got to the point I thought we might trying riding again he went lame after trying to do an emergency stop and handbrake turn while playing a bit to enthusiastically in the field, now with all the groundwork and living on a hill he has changed shape so much his saddle doesn't even come close to fitting so we're now waiting to get a new one fitted, hopefully his new found enthusiasm for things carries over to the ridden part.
I'm sure a good professional could have acheived far more in a far shorter time but I'm no professional and have no set time frame I just make it up as I go along and learn as I go and try and do the best I can.