Kauto doing dressage

cptrayes said:
I am not sure why it suddenly becomes a prerequisite to have an in depth knowledge of racing yards to believe that Kauto Star will be better of as a one-person horse doing a bit of riding club stuff and/or hunting. Can someone enlighten me?
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For whatever reason you just seem spoiling for a fight about this, I don't believe you care about the issue or in trying to understand the point of view of those of us that do....it would be a waste of time to explain what you would never understand if you really believe Kauto Star should go off and do a bit of riding club stuff.
 
bonny said:
For whatever reason you just seem spoiling for a fight about this,.
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Why is it that I am not allowed, in your eyes, to politely put an alternative point of view, without being told that I am "spoiling for a fight"?

I don't understand your point of view? I do, but I do not think that you are right. How is this in any way different about your position on my point of view?

Why can you not just agree that we have different points of view?


For me this is not just about Kauto Star. He and his owner's money are in a position to do an enormous amount of good for all the horses that the racing industry aren't so fervent about - the failures. If he can do that and also be happy and make a new owner extremely happy then I think that would be a wonderful outcome.
 
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Fantasy_World said:
Actually if you knew the late Ginger which I had the pleasure of doing I think you will find that his comment was most likely tongue in cheek. He had an infectious personality, was well loved and joked aplenty.
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Golly gosh Fantasy World, do you think I never realised GMcC was joking? The clue was my use of the word "joked".

It is true though that he was unhappy in his stable and instead of turning him out, as would most likely happen in a Riding Club home, he was given a goat to keep him happier?
 
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cptrayes said:
Golly gosh Fantasy World, do you think I never realised GMcC was joking?

It is true though that he was unhappy in his stable and instead of turning him out, as would most likely happen in a Riding Club home, he was given a goat to keep him happier?
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A riding club home don't make me laugh, if you are referring to some of the types I have seen at livery yards then no they do not always turn out their horse or pony unless it suits the owners.
Bored horses are given boredom breakers and other similar toys, ok so it is not a goat, but at least Red Rum had an animal as a companion.
I have seen horses cooped up in stables for no less than 6 months, for no reason whatsover.
These were horses that were going to be sold onto competition homes.
Come to think of it most of the competition types I have seen at yards have wrapped their horses up in cotton wool and not allowed them the freedom afforded to their equine stablemates. Mainly because god forbid if they should happen to enjoy their field and run around and get injured or dirty!

If Ginger had had the set up which he had in his later years then I would imagine that Rummy would have been allowed more freedom. I would say it was the constraints at the time of his present yard that caused issues.

However I must add that I have been at yards that have had wonderful and safe fields for turnout, yet the types that would box up or trailer up their horse for a show, or to sell on would choose to keep the horse shut up in a stable.
 
cptrayes said:
Ah I see so in your eyes then so long as Kauto is used as a publicity stunt for the re-training of racehorses then it is all ok is it?
There are numerous centres and charities that do astounding work to promote the welfare and new lives of former racehorses.
They do not need the likes of Kauto to promote the status of ex racers by himself partaking in a sport outside of racing.
He could have done his bit for the ex racers by raising funds through donations via the yard or by racecourse appearances.
Likewise owner Smith could afford to cough up a few more coffers for the racing charities if he so wished.
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Fantasy_World said:
Ah I see so in your eyes then so long as Kauto is used as a publicity stunt for the re-training of racehorses then it is all ok is it?
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No, my main wish would be to see him in a one-person home with someone who gives him individual attention and a varied life. The rest is a bonus and wouldn't need him to do anything additional.
 
cptrayes said:
No, my main wish would be to see him in a one-person home with someone who gives him individual attention and a varied life. The rest is a bonus and wouldn't need him to do anything additional.
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Editied because I was being bitchy - but that aside - one horse home ??? He's hardly headed for that in LC's yard is he?
 
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oh heavens. Anyone seen the photos of KS with Laura? lovely pictures and looking very good. Why has this deteriorated into a Racing V Another career? And why the equal assumption that KS will never be happy again. Neither lifestyle is superior and please can posters who being so dismissive of riding club/competition people and their horses have a little grace and not tar us all with the same brush?

It is highly unfortunate that the spate between trainer and owner has become so public and so polarised public opinion. Can we try on this board to be nicer to each other about all this? what a shame if the wonder that is Kauto Star is then chiefly remembered due to very public slanging matches and not for his huge success in racing. Because that is what is happening right now. Can't remember a thread being this long for any of his successes...
 
Caledonia said:
Editied because I was being bitchy - but that aside - one horse home ??? He's hardly headed for that in LC's yard is he?
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According to the reports I have read, he is there for assessment only, not to stay.

I said one-person, not one-horse. I have three horses but they all know that I am their person.
 
Caledonia said:
Yeh, but given your stance on Kauto, apparently that's you being anthropomorphic?
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I personally think that there is a fairly big difference between horses realising that one person is consistently their carer, feeder, rider, trainer, travelling groom etc and any particular horse caring that it is a King, which was the context of my comment about anthropomorphism.
 
Dobiegirl said:
Kauto had the same person caring for him all the time and one person riding him at Paul Nicholls, a bit like at Lauras.
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He isn't staying at Laura's according to what I have read.

And I find it very difficult to believe that as one horse in a yard that big that he would continue to have only one person riding him as he gets older and less of a figurehead than he is right now. I guess that isn't something that either of us can prove, so I hope that we can agree to disagree on it.
 
cptrayes said:
I personally think that there is a fairly big difference between horses realising that one person is consistently their carer, feeder, rider, trainer, travelling groom etc and any particular horse caring that it is a King, which was the context of my comment about anthropomorphism.
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I wrote - "You obviously have no understanding of the regard Kauto is held in in the yard."

You replied - "He doesn't give a toss about their regard for him, you are anthropomorphising too much "

As the regard he's held in governs the care and love he receives from those who have looked after him all that time, I'd say it's particularly significant.
 
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I doubt I am saying anything that has not been said already but as a Kauto fan I will pop in my tuppence worth as well.
The "happy endings and romantic" side of me wanted to see him stay at Ditcheat with all those who loved and knew him so well. For him to be worked how he knows and be kept in the lap of luxury. He would have paraded for his legions of fans regularly and we could have had regular Kauto fixes.
The "sensible" side of me knows he is going to a top class home, her yard is lovely. She is a top class rider and Yogi...well..what can you say...he is a legend himself.
I have often thought things were slightly strained between PN & CS. PN is a champion trainer and his results speak for themselves. CS clearly has the money to afford horses in a league above most others.
But although they owned and trained the horse let them not forget punters and fans put them kinda where they are. Your housewives who pop a couple of quid on at highdays and holidays. Kids who enjoy the racing over the holidays. Us everyday horse lovers...who just love him etc .
He is part public property and we want to see him live a long and happy life.

Perhaps by doing this (ego's aside) he will help other normal ex-racers find a life outside racing. Only this week I have been offered 2 ex-racers, for nothing. I wish I could have taken them in. I tried to assist in finding them homes but no one wanted them. " It's mid-winter, they are nutters, do you know how much they eat" were the main responses. I know where they will now go but at least they won't be cold and hungry if they passed from pillar to post. Not everyone can manage an ex racer and if Kauto goes and does another job then he champions the cause for other ex-racers.
Kauto is not like your average ex-racer. To have achieved what he did is really the stuff of legend. Frankel, Desert Orchid, Black Caviar....are horses that shine above all others. We are lucky to have seen their like.
I know I want to see Kauto but as long as he is fit, loved and happy then it can't be a bad old life.
 
Caledonia said:
As the regard he's held in governs the care and love he receives from those who have look after him all that time, I'd say it's particularly significant.
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Are you saying what you seem to be, that he'd get better care because he's famous? In other words, that other horses get worse care in racing stables because they are not?
 
Caledonia said:
I wrote - "You obviously have no understanding of the regard Kauto is held in in the yard."

You replied - "He doesn't give a toss about their regard for him, you are anthropomorphising too much "

As the regard he's held in governs the care and love he receives from those who have looked after him all that time, I'd say it's particularly significant.
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I totally agree, Ive been to his yard and been lucky to have met him by private invitation, even have the photos, my point being it was obvious the regard he is held in and the love everyone felt for him. As he got older he would never have been seen less than he is now which is what Cptrayes is saying. He is a super star and always will be.
 
cptrayes said:
Are you saying what you seem to be, that he'd get better care because he's famous? In other words, that other horses get worse care in racing stables because they are not?
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No. I'm saying that he was much loved, and always had been, and did nothing to deserve being moved from that aura of security, where he knew those that worked with him were his 'people'. As you say yours know you're their person......... :rolleyes:
 
Caledonia said:
No. I'm saying that he was much loved, and always had been, and did nothing to deserve being moved from that aura of security, where he knew those that worked with him were his 'people'. As you say yours know you're their person......... :rolleyes:
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I have no idea what goes on in PN's yard, can you tell me?

Who mucked out his stable and groomed him and how many other horses did they have to do on the same day?

How much time were they able to spend with him?

Who fed him when?

Who rode him and for how long would he be ridden when not racing any more?

Where?

Would he have been turned out each day? For how long and with what other horses?

Would he have been turned away for three months as somene has said that he was when racing, and how does this fit with his continuity of feeling secure and loved?



You may not be able to answer those questions and it doesn't matter if not, it's only for my own personal interest/nosiness, to try to understand why you think he would have been so much better off to stay where he was.
 
cptrayes said:
I have no idea what goes on in PN's yard, can you tell me?

Who mucked out his stable and groomed him and how many other horses did they have to do on the same day?

How much time were they able to spend with him?

Who fed him when?

Who rode him and for how long would he be ridden when not racing any more?

Where?

Would he have been turned out each day? For how long and with what other horses?

Would he have been turned away for three months as somene has said that he was when racing, and how does this fit with his continuity of feeling secure and loved?



You may not be able to answer those questions and it doesn't matter if not, it's only for my own personal interest/nosiness, to try to understand why you think he would have been so much better off to stay where he was.
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You are truly :eek:

You supply me with the comparisons of where he might end up (and good luck with even having a clue about that) and I'll compare them to his daily routine at Ditcheat and let you know the differences.

What is abundantly clear, is that the routine he has had for the last eight years has made him a very happy horse. And rather than repeat myself, the info as to what they would have done with him had he stayed at Ditcheat is in my previous posts.
 
I'm sorry but none of the previous posts have answered those questions completely, and mostly not at all.

And comparisons with where he might end up are pointless, we don't know where he is going to end up. From the strop that the trainer has thrown, it does not appear that going back to Ditcheat will be on the cards if Laura and Yogi advise that he is not suitable for retraining into a new career.

I am sorry that you have taken my genuine attempt to understand what the horse's life would have been at Ditcheat in this way. If no-one can tell me what it would have been, then I can't make any progress towards understanding why some people are so adamant that he should have stayed there, when personally I can see a better life for a fit sound 11/12 year old somewhere else.

By the way I do not accept that just because a horse wins it is happy. There are plenty of examples of horses that are really mean or difficult to handle that are great athletes in all sorts of sports.
 
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cptrayes said:
I have no idea what goes on in PN's yard, can you tell me?

Who mucked out his stable and groomed him and how many other horses did they have to do on the same day?

How much time were they able to spend with him?

Who fed him when?

Who rode him and for how long would he be ridden when not racing any more?

Where?

Would he have been turned out each day? For how long and with what other horses?

Would he have been turned away for three months as somene has said that he was when racing, and how does this fit with his continuity of feeling secure and loved?



You may not be able to answer those questions and it doesn't matter if not, it's only for my own personal interest/nosiness, to try to understand why you think he would have been so much better off to stay where he was.
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Why don't you ask the poster on the thread who claims to know the ins and outs of how he was trained, pootling along the road and up the gallops.
I am sure if they are as knowledgeable about the horse and his day to day routine they will be able to answer those questions for you :)
 
Caledonia said:
You are truly :eek:

You supply me with the comparisons of where he might end up (and good luck with even having a clue about that) and I'll compare them to his daily routine at Ditcheat and let you know the differences.

What is abundantly clear, is that the routine he has had for the last eight years has made him a very happy horse. And rather than repeat myself, the info as to what they would have done with him had he stayed at Ditcheat is in my previous posts.
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Haha, lost the plot I think:D


Paul Nicholls is renowned for keeping older horses fit and sound as well as remaining still loving their racing which is no mean feat. This dosnt come about unless a lot of thought and care has been put into their training regime. Clearly this is all over Cptrayes head. Because its a large yard it dosnt mean the care is any less.
 
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