Kauto doing dressage

Dobiegirl said:
My only beef has been the way this was handled and the upset caused to the yard. PNs team didnt have a problem with Denman and NC leaving the yard so common sense would say well why the fuss over KS leaving and from my point of view it was the fact they were not consulted over what happens after retirement.
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As far as I could see from all the reports and links that have been posted on here, Nicholls and his team were consulted about the horse's future, and I think in one article it said PN was told at the end of October that Kauto would be leaving after boxing day, to see if he could be found another job.
Then, seemingly all of a sudden, PN himself says he wants the horse gone that same afternoon (Tuesday, was it?)!

No one other than the people involved will ever know exactly what's gone on between PN and CS, but, at the end of the day, Kauto is Clive Smith's horse, he's paid all the bills (probably close to £2000/month) while the horse was in training, so the final decision is his, and people should respect that.


What gets me about this post is that some people, without personally knowing the horse, or the exact routine at either Paul Nicholls' or Laura Collett's yards, are absolutely adamant that Kauto COULDN'T POSSIBLY thrive in a new yard/career, and will SUFFER as a result! :confused:

I also think it's a shame that some of you think Kauto becoming an 'ambassador' (can't think of a better word) for retrained ex-racehorses, even if it's at the lower levels, is somehow beneath him.

Maybe, had PN not kicked off the way he has, Kauto could have gone back to his yard if he didn't show an aptitude for another job, but I don't think that will happen now.:(

Me, personally, I don't actually care where or how Kauto spends his retirement, as long as he's happy, healthy and well looked after. Surely, that's all that matters? :)
 
Dobiegirl said:
Ive no doubt he has gone to a brilliant home but I am still saddened, Kauto is a legend and could have been used in ways to fund ex racehorses. If he had stayed at PNs yard and had the occasional half days hunting he could have still paraded for all his fans and could have raised money at the same time. My sadness is that racing fans will not get to see him anymore, it is looking unlikely that he will be going to Kempton on Boxing day which considering he won 5 King Georges is a huge disappointment to all his fans.

I just hope when the dust settles PN and CS can sit down and decide when his time with LC is over he can come back to PN and live out his days there.
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I said this sometime ago.
 
Dobiegirl said:
But if she really wanted to know I gave her the link to find out, just send a simple email, how difficult is that.
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You'd email a man known to have quite a temper with that question two day's after the horse left his yard, would you :D ?


As far as I know no-one has professed to know the day to day routine of KS at PNs and I doubt very much anyone could do the same now he is at LCs.
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I have most of the information I wanted about Ditcheat, and I am even more convinced that he is better off with the future that his owner is arranging for him.
 
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cptrayes said:
You'd email a man known to have quite a temper with that question two day's after the horse left his yard, would you :D ?
How do you know he has a temper? hearsay, have you ever met him? Ive met him 4 times and I found him to be very charming and totally immersed in racing which he has a deep love for and is quite happy to chat to anyone(even me:D) about any of his horses. As for the email I would have thought enquiring about the day to day running of the yard would be your question not asking about the fallout with CS.


I have most of the information I wanted about Ditcheat, and I am even more convinced that he is better off with the future that his owner is arranging for him.
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If you had most of the information about Ditcheat why all the questions unless it was to be contensious.
 
Dobiegirl said:
If you had most of the information about Ditcheat why all the questions unless it was to be contensious.
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Oh come on Dobiegirl please stop looking for a fight. I was given the information after I asked for it by someone who worked at Ditcheat, of course.

I also think that the way a man behaves to a visitor who may well be a future customer bears no relation whatsoever to the way he treats his paid staff when no-one else is around. I'm glad you thought he was a nice man. I think by the simple fact of him throwing the horse out with no notice, it is clear what a temper he has.
 
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I've just read a really good, sensible article about this whole fiasco:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2012/dec/12/kauto-star-racing-fans-dressage
:)

This paragraph in particular, struck a chord with me, in relation to some of the rather strong opinions expressed in this thread:

Perhaps a lesson that we could all take from this is that if a horse moving from one stable to another can be a cause of such anger, we may be guilty of investing too much emotion ourselves. Kauto Star has, at least, come through his racing career unscathed, and has not been asked to continue in a risky business once his chance of winning at the highest level was gone. His sprawling fall four out in the 2010 Gold Cup with his head bent under his body could easily have broken his neck. How much worse would that have been than a career-change into dressage?

:)
 
cptrayes said:
Oh come on Dobiegirl please stop looking for a fight. I was given the information after I asked for it by someone who worked at Ditcheat, of course.

I also think that the way a man behaves to a visitor who may well be a future customer bears no relation whatsoever to the way he treats his paid staff when no-one else is around. I'm glad you thought he was a nice man. I think by the simple fact of him throwing the horse out with no notice, it is clear what a temper he has.
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Aah so you just happened to have inside information how lucky for you:rolleyes: how do you know it wasnt a disgruntled former employee or a fantasist, you dont do you. PNs staff have stayed for years that speaks for itself in my book.

I met PN in the pub:D and after chatting he invited me to meet KS and Denman, it was apparent I was not a potential client as I was working there at the time, ooh maybe he thought I was the landlady:D
 
Dobiegirl said:
Aah so you just happened to have inside information how lucky for you:rolleyes: how do you know it wasnt a disgruntled former employee or a fantasist, you dont do you. PNs staff have stayed for years that speaks for itself in my book.

I met PN in the pub:D and after chatting he invited me to meet KS and Denman, it was apparent I was not a potential client as I was working there at the time, ooh maybe he thought I was the landlady:D
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Exactly I have always found Paul to be friendly with the press and he was always nice when talking to me and even gave me a winner one day too.
I have never ever heard a bad word said about him, from jockeys, owners, the press and yet I have lurked. I have lurked in press rooms, weighing rooms, owner and trainer bars and press conferences. Never, ever did anyone say anything off the record about him or even when people were talking among themselves.
However I have heard comments made about other people which I will not reveal due to confidentiality.
I have read in other places people calling him arrogant.
Poppycock, he may be rushed sometimes after all he is a champion trainer with a rather large string to manage and numerous runners at meetings, but I would certainly not say he is arrogant. Plain speaking maybe, but to me that makes a good trainer.
He certainly knows how to train and place his horses and he is not champion trainer for nothing.
 
Dobiegirl said:
Aah so you just happened to have inside information how lucky for you:rolleyes: how do you know it wasnt a disgruntled former employee or a fantasist, you dont do you. PNs staff have stayed for years that speaks for itself in my book.
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Look. What is your problem with me? I am not trying to persuade you to my point of view. What information I have is my own business and I am not using it to try to change anyone else's mind.

You are welcome to your view that KS should have stayed at Ditcheat. You are far from alone in holding that view. I don't agree with you, so what's the big deal?

But since you mention it, I should look at the turnover of the staff who do not have the top jobs at the yard, the ordinary stable lads who actually do the horses, before you claim that in general his staff have stayed for years.




I met PN in the pub:D and after chatting he invited me to meet KS and Denman, it was apparent I was not a potential client as I was working there at the time, ooh maybe he thought I was the landlady:D
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Anyone can win the lottery and even people on moderate incomes can afford syndication fees. A good businessman knows that when out in public.
 
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cptrayes said:
Look. What is your problem with me? I am not trying to persuade you to my point of view. What information I have is my own business and I am not using it to try to change anyone else's mind.

You are welcome to your view that KS should have stayed at Ditcheat. You are far from alone in holding that view. I don't agree with you, so what's the big deal?

But since you mention it, I should look at the turnover of the staff who do not have the top jobs at the yard, the ordinary stable lads who actually do the horses, before you claim that in general his staff have stayed for years.


The girl looking after KS when I visited had been there for years and the girl who did Denman was pregnant, had her baby and then came back part time, it was obvious talking to the staff how committed they all were and how much they loved their jobs. I have PNs brochure for many years which lists all the staff and funnily enough its nearly all the same people.



Anyone can win the lottery and even people on moderate incomes can afford syndication fees. A good businessman knows that when out in public.
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Now youve gone and lost the plot again, everyone knows you are more likely to be hit by a double decker bus than winning the lottery.
 
Echo Bravo said:
Dobiegirl, no good trying to get your point over to CPTRAYES or AMYMAY as they think they are always right.
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No they don't? They just have an opinion that differs to yours.
I am sorry but I can't sit on my hands any longer. There is such a thing as a healthy debate. I haven't seen anything from CPT that has been aggressive/inflammatory/personal or rude? You and a couple of others however :rolleyes:
 
You know what, I hate to do the whole this trumps that thing, but 22 elementary school (primary in this country) children were shot dead by some nutjob today . . . I love horses, I love racehorses, but all this bickering about what's best (or not) for a horse who's gone from one lovely yard to another actually means a lot less in the face of 22 sets of parents of young children shot dead by an idiot with a gun.

Some perspective might be in order.

P
 
PolarExpress said:
You know what, I hate to do the whole this trumps that thing, but 22 elementary school (primary in this country) children were shot dead by some nutjob today . . . I love horses, I love racehorses, but all this bickering about what's best (or not) for a horse who's gone from one lovely yard to another actually means a lot less in the face of 22 sets of parents of young children shot dead by an idiot with a gun.

Some perspective might be in order.

P
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Yes the shooting is very tragic and I have indeed commented on the other thread about it.
However it is worth noting that not a day goes by when there is not some tragedy/accident/death on the news.
My heart goes out to the parents of those little ones, and I feel dreadfully sorry for the little lives that have been lost and also affected by those losses and today's events.
I do not think that because people are commenting on this thread that they are immune from the effects of today's events.
I can understand the perspective comment, but there is room on here and in our hearts to be concerned over the death of these children and the future of Kauto Star.
 
PolarExpress said:
You know what, I hate to do the whole this trumps that thing, but 22 elementary school (primary in this country) children were shot dead by some nutjob today . . . I love horses, I love racehorses, but all this bickering about what's best (or not) for a horse who's gone from one lovely yard to another actually means a lot less in the face of 22 sets of parents of young children shot dead by an idiot with a gun.

Some perspective might be in order.

P
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Using that logic we might as well stop talking about anything else....terrible what happened in America today but it's not relevant. Awful things are happening all over the world, doesn't stop us caring about other seemingly trivial things.
 
bonny said:
Using that logic we might as well stop talking about anything else....terrible what happened in America today but it's not relevant. Awful things are happening all over the world, doesn't stop us caring about other seemingly trivial things.
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Then you are seriously lacking in perspective love.

P
 
PolarExpress said:
22 elementary school children shot dead and you're worrying about a horse who has moved from one (caring and lovely) home to another (caring and lovely) home?

Perspective?

P
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I said it wasn't relevant and it's not. I also said awful things are happening all over the world and on a personal basis to millions of people and that doesn't stop us caring about seemingly trivial things as well . People on here are posting about all sounds of unimportant things and worrying about unimportant things. It's called life and has nothing whatsoever to do with the events today in America.
 
I would love to know throught all this since when is a racing yard diet, schedule etc. considered to be good for the horse knowing as we do nowadays about the vices and ulcers such keeping predisposes horses too-not that a 'top' dressage yard is likely to be greatly different but all those people who propose a racing yard to be a horses 'ideal' place to live out their lives may need to rethink!
 
Well I have not bothered to read all the hundreds of opinions but here is mine.

I think he'd be happier if he was hunting a couple of mornings a month and slowly learing how to be a horse again, as opposed to a running machine.

I don't really think its fair to ask these hard worked muscles to start changing shape as he enters his teens. Being so constrained and precise will be stressful mentally, I think.
 
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SusieT said:
I would love to know throught all this since when is a racing yard diet, schedule etc. considered to be good for the horse knowing as we do nowadays about the vices and ulcers such keeping predisposes horses too-not that a 'top' dressage yard is likely to be greatly different but all those people who propose a racing yard to be a horses 'ideal' place to live out their lives may need to rethink!
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Any winning racehorse would not be on the top of their game without the balanced nutrition they need, top trainers are fully aware of vices etc. Having seen KS and Denman myself I can assure you I didnt see any windsucking,weaving or cribbing from either of them. Big Bucks on the other hand is a confirmed box walker I believe but as he is a stressy horse I suspect he would do that wherever he was stabled.
 
singing dawg said:
Well I have not bothered to read all the hundreds of opinions but here is mine.

I think he'd be happier if he was hunting a couple of mornings a month and slowly learing how to be a horse again, as opposed to a running machine.

I don't really think its fair to ask these hard worked muscles to start changing shape as he enters his teens. Being so constrained and precise will be stressful mentally, I think.
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Agree - in terms of high level dressage - He wuld be happier hunting / team chasing.
But the interesting debate in all of this is the relationship between trainer and owner - now who owns Carl Hester, Charlotte (unpronouncable) horses/ We don't know do we? Who owned Red Rum (dittto) though we all know who trained him.......Who trained and owned Desert Orchid - well I can answer for both here - David Elsworth - was not that public so he was happy to let Richard B do the public stuff........Who needs the higher profile Clive Smith or Paul Nicholls - clearly they are fighting over this - and that is the crux of this matter,I think.........
 
Laura has just been interviewed on morning line. Hes already at her yard apparently hacking and had a bit of training. She said there was no time line for when she has 2 have him out competing
 
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