Kauto doing dressage

[cptrayes]

You have no idea what these old horses mean to a yard. They are treated like kings.

No horse who is never turned out to mix with other horses and stretch its legs at liberty is being treated like a king by my definition.

Anyone who looks after them feels a huge amount of pride and honour and they stay revered throughout their retirement.

You can guarantee that can you? How many of them have their been retired in 120 box yards?

"In the box where he's always been" is the phrase that is really what this is all about. That is where he considers as home. That is his comfort zone.

Did he ever travel overnight to race and board over? Did he settle enough to race and perform well? THAT's how much he cares about that box.

It is not that he can't do a few walk trot tests but he does require a very good rider who is likely to be more ambitious than he is.

You underestimate how difficult it is to reschool an ex racer and the number of very good riders who are not hugely competitive.

He deserves to stay with what he knows and is comfortable with.

He does deserve that, if it would continue to keep him comfortable when he is a creaky old man. With no turnout, I don't believe that would be the case.

Someone who has time to fiddle will only have one or two horses. That would be a real culture shock for him. Some horses get irritated by people fiddling about with them.

"Time to fiddle" does not mean he will be fiddled with if he does not want! Most horses love it, but if he doesn't I'm sure his new owner will allow for that.

Culture shock? yes the pictures of him having moved to a tiny yard and not being ridden in a string look as if he is shocked, don't they?

With a horse like that, it is most likely that whoever did him as a spare would be chosen carefully as someone who is aware of his status and would feel the pride.

For how long? In ten years time when another horse in the yard is the one in the public eye? "Feel the pride" - on a cold wet December evening in 2022 when you have been detailed to do him as an extra and are already soaked to the skin and should have finished an hour ago and he bites you when you adjust his rug because his arthritis hurts him? Somehow I doubt it.

 

[silu]

For how long? In ten years time when another horse in the yard is the one in the public eye? "Feel the pride" - on a cold wet December evening in 2022 when you have been detailed to do him as an extra and are already soaked to the skin and should have finished an hour ago and he bites you when you adjust his rug because his arthritis hurts him? Somehow I doubt it.[/QUOTE]

Try at bit longer than 10 years. Those of us who are racing fans still remember with affection the likes of Arkle who was retired from racing in approx 1965! Of course KS is just a horse BUT a very special 1. From the shear number of posts on here about him it perhaps shows just how much people DO care about his future and what happens to him. In an ideal world all horses, racehorses or otherwise should have the perfect retirement but in reality that doesn't happen.Time will tell if KS gets the future he thoroughly deserves.

 

[Caledonia]

What - and you think that this horse will somehow know the difference? Not all horses are born to be dressage horses, and many do undergo career changes even at later stages in life. Yes it can take retraining of the mind and muscles, but isn't that better than to just rot away in a field and stable? Do you think that horse wakes up and says to himself "I'm a racing hero, I shouldn't be demeaned by doing Prelim dressage?" Get real.

It's far better that a horse be useful and kept doing something than to waste away. He might be happy stuck in a field. But I know for a fact mine wouldn't. Some horses crave a bit of attention and getting that attention from a single someone who loves him or several adoring fans...so long as their fed and attended to -- that's usually what they want and need.

I think it's simply that YOU don't want to have your racing hero be demeaned to a life of lowly dressge. Somehow that takes the polish of your idol.

Don't be ridiculous - if he'd retired at 7 with a leg, I'd say go ahead and find a new job. But he's not, he's 13 in March and he deserves a retirement.

You know what your horses want - Ditcheat knew what Kauto wanted. You can't have it both ways. Or are you streets ahead of the team at Ditcheat?

Nasty smell of hypocritical bull5hit here ......

 

[monkeybum13]

Just curious as everyone keeps going on about turnout at PN's yard, do the horses get all year turnout at LC's then?

 

[oldvic]

No horse who is never turned out to mix with other horses and stretch its legs at liberty is being treated like a king by my definition.

_______

He has always been turned out with some friends for his summer holidays.

________


You can guarantee that can you? How many of them have their been retired in 120 box yards?

_______

There have been many over the years that have stayed with their trainer in large yards.

_______

Did he ever travel overnight to race and board over? Did he settle enough to race and perform well? THAT's how much he cares about that box.

_______


Very rarely. He had 3 trips to Ireland. He won 2 although some were not impressed with the manner of doing so. He pulled up having been reported as never travelling in the other.

________

You underestimate how difficult it is to reschool an ex racer and the number of very good riders who are not hugely competitive.

_______

Your first comment amuses me and the second is naive.

_______

He does deserve that, if it would continue to keep him comfortable when he is a creaky old man. With no turnout, I don't believe that would be the case.

_______

To imply that they wouldn't have had his best interests at heart is insulting to a very professional team.

_______

"Time to fiddle" does not mean he will be fiddled with if he does not want! Most horses love it, but if he doesn't I'm sure his new owner will allow for that.

Culture shock? yes the pictures of him having moved to a tiny yard and not being ridden in a string look as if he is shocked, don't they?

________

Laura has around 17 horses to event. Not a tiny yard.


________

For how long? In ten years time when another horse in the yard is the one in the public eye? "Feel the pride" - on a cold wet December evening in 2022 when you have been detailed to do him as an extra and are already soaked to the skin and should have finished an hour ago and he bites you when you adjust his rug because his arthritis hurts him? Somehow I doubt it.

They have had the highs with the horse so why are they unlikely to care for him in old age - particularly as Paul Nicholls said that if he had stayed Clifford would have cared for him?

 

[PucciNPoni]

Don't be ridiculous - if he'd retired at 7 with a leg, I'd say go ahead and find a new job. But he's not, he's 13 in March and he deserves a retirement.

You know what your horses want - Ditcheat knew what Kauto wanted. You can't have it both ways. Or are you streets ahead of the team at Ditcheat?

Nasty smell of hypocritical bull5hit here ......

The only thing nasty is your attitude and vitriol.

Merry Christmas. The thread is still ridiculous, and now I feel a bit ridiculous for being drawn in to it for a bit.

 

[Alec Swan]

.......

Merry Christmas. The thread is still ridiculous, and now I feel a bit ridiculous for being drawn in to it for a bit.

Not specifically this thread, but others, I too often wonder why TF I bothered!! It wont matter tomorrow, and a Merry Christmas to you too!

There's a mince pie for the first person to display a blowing-kisses-smilie!!

Alec.

 

[Fantasy_World]

Don't be ridiculous - if he'd retired at 7 with a leg, I'd say go ahead and find a new job. But he's not, he's 13 in March and he deserves a retirement.

You know what your horses want - Ditcheat knew what Kauto wanted. You can't have it both ways.

I totally agree!
The horse has done enough to earn a retirement what more does he have to prove?
I also agree that the highlighting of both him and Denman in their new careers may lure more numpties to go to the sales get themselves an ex racer and have a go with disastrous consequences
I just wonder at the back of my mind if the rivalry between the owners of Kauto and Denman is still going?
Findlay seemed a man who loved the limelight and so does Smith.
Denman is going off team chasing and has been hunting and looks thoroughly happy.
Although I would say he is more in the mould of an old fashioned chaser and should take to hunting like a duck to water. He was not given the nickname 'The Tank' for nothing!
I enjoy seeing his reports in the H&H and I think careful consideration has been given to his new career.
He though has not suffered the falls and injuries of his former stablemate.
True he suffered from a hearbeat irregularity but that was sorted out and he went on to win races afterwards.
He is more of a stoic horse than Kauto Star and you do not have to be a horse or racing expert to see the major differences between the two.
Kauto is more slight and has suffered more falls than Denman and in fact suffered a nasty fracture in one of his earlier one's.
This is sure to have left a mark.
I was not the only one who noticed he did not look 'right' behind before his awful run in the delayed King George run in January 2011, where it was later revealed he had been suffering from an infection.
As others have rightly said Kauto has been in training since a 2 year old.
He will be 13 next month.
He has had a long and varied career over jumps.
He had had 10 races in France over hurdles as a three year old before registering his 31 races over fences in Britain.
Compare this to Denman who did not start racing until he was 5, in a ptp in Liscaroll.
He then went on to have 5 runs over hurdles and 19 over fences.
Denman will continue to be in the public eye through the press such as the Horse & Hound with his further exploits.
Does Smith want the same for his horse?
Further glory and to appear in the press?
What was that phrase that the legendary John Francome used to say in racing? " A horse only has so many miles on the clock."
Competitively I think yes this is true for most thoroughbreds and Kauto has run his fair share.

 

[Lolo]

As an aside, do you think that of they see he's not suitable for an alternative career (I still reckon if he takes to his retraining he'll be out doing RoR showing type things...) he'll be allowed to go back to Ditcheat now following what happened on Twitter and the likes?

In all honesty, there's so much invested in this horse he will only ever know luxury and pampering. He is tremendously lucky in comparison to so many other retired racehorses out there, who ran as often and tried as hard and were just as injured because he was good. So many who are rubbish at racing or are injured are 'rescued' (what a joke) by well-meaning novices who don't feed them enough or rug them enough or try and train them properly. They end up thin and confused and labelled as lunatics. Kauto Star may not be living the life you envisioned for him, but he's living one of luxury and it will only ever be that way. Maybe we need to use this to look at how outrage needs applying to more worthy causes...

 

[cptrayes]

You underestimate how difficult it is to reschool an ex racer and the number of very good riders who are not hugely competitive.

This should have read "you OVERestimate how difficult it is to reschool an ex racehorse"

 

[Alec Swan]

A staggering 490 posts. OK so some are those repeating themselves, but everyone (just about), is passionate about the horse himself.

Whether I agree with your stances, or not, is immaterial. You CARE, and I applaud you all.

I suspect that the Mr's Smith and Nicholls have rather burned their bridges, which is such a shame. Unseemly squabbling has left them with an impasse of epic and insurmountable proportions, I suspect.

I wish you all peace at Christmas.

Alec.

 

[PolarSkye]

If a horse has never been special to you then that is absolutely fine, but for those of us that they have, then all we can say is that they remain special forever, not temporarily. You will just have to trust us on that until it happens to you. The whole point of the problem here is that Kauto Star had a home, and he should have remained there

Of course my horse is special to me. Just like other people's horses are special to them. Bottom line, though, is that if GreyDonkey's previous owner hadn't been in a position to sell him on (b/c she was going travelling) then he wouldn't be mine. I'm very, very glad she did choose to sell him - and to me . . . he is my childhood wish come true - my fairytale pony. If I can, I will keep him until one of us dies.

Are you seriously suggesting that b/c horses have a home they should never, ever leave it? Under any circumstances? Or that horses who are sold on for one reason or another have never been "special" to their owners?

A very few lucky horses have one home from the time they hit the floor on foaling until they die . . . but most have several homes in their lifetimes and are loved in each one and special to each owner.

This thread has become beyond ridiculous . . . all this vitriol and speculation over the future of one very pampered ex racehorse. Why not direct all this energy to helping those no name horses who find themselves on a meat wagon to France . . . or worse (and there is worse)?

P

 

[Caol Ila]

Of course my horse is special to me. Just like other people's horses are special to them. Bottom line, though, is that if GreyDonkey's previous owner hadn't been in a position to sell him on (b/c she was going travelling) then he wouldn't be mine. I'm very, very glad she did choose to sell him - and to me . . . he is my childhood wish come true - my fairytale pony. If I can, I will keep him until one of us dies.

Are you seriously suggesting that b/c horses have a home they should never, ever leave it? Under any circumstances? Or that horses who are sold on for one reason or another have never been "special" to their owners?

A very few lucky horses have one home from the time they hit the floor on foaling until they die . . . but most have several homes in their lifetimes and are loved in each one and special to each owner.

This thread has become beyond ridiculous . . . all this vitriol and speculation over the future of one very pampered ex racehorse. Why not direct all this energy to helping those no name horses who find themselves on a meat wagon to France . . . or worse (and there is worse)?

P

Indeed. My horse was very special to her previous owner -- well loved, well looked after. She had been bought as a 2-year old from the breeder to be the owner's dressage horse. But previous owner developed a medical condition that was worsening and meant that she couldn't ride anymore. The horse was 7 at the time and the owner did not want her sitting around doing nothing. So she decided to sell the horse to someone who could ride. Because the mare had a home where people loved her, should she not have been sold and moved on to a new yard with new people (me!), just because, due to the owner's problems, she couldn't do the job she was originally bought to do. But she still had a home! By Louise12's logic, no horse who's owners care enough about it to not send it to the knackers or can afford to keep it even if it doesn't suit their purpose anymore should ever be sold, loaned, etc.

 

[brighteyes]

To quote just a line from the article - "Kauto Star's main priorities in life are food, shelter and warmth," Oh dear - every horse's priority is company! Then food.

I am fairly confident KS will be fine.

What this has done for retrained racehorses and his final retirement home remains to be seen. I hope his lass/lad can still see him if they so wish.

 

[oldvic]

This should have read "you OVERestimate how difficult it is to reschool an ex racehorse"

This amuses me even more!

 

[cptrayes]

To quote just a line from the article - "Kauto Star's main priorities in life are food, shelter and warmth," Oh dear - every horse's priority is company! Then food.

Sorry Brightinsel I'm not with you there. I haven't met a horse yet who would starve himself to death rather than be on his own.

 

[cptrayes]

This amuses me even more!

Can I ask how many ex racers you have taught to do dressage and showjump oldvic? It would be interesting to know what experience you have that it amuses you so much that I think you overestimate how difficult it is to reschool an ex racer.

 

[oldvic]

Can I ask how many ex racers you have taught to do dressage and showjump oldvic? It would be interesting to know what experience you have that it amuses you so much that I think you overestimate how difficult it is to reschool an ex racer.

I will PM you as I wouldn't want to embarrass you.

 

[cptrayes]

I will PM you as I wouldn't want to embarrass you.

I do not like secrecy and I fail to see how your answer can embarass me. I request your permission to publish your PM when it arrives otherwise I will delete it without opening it.

 

[Onyxia]

13 is not too old to learn a new job and while KS might be past it for racing he is not an OAP equine just yet for other activities.

I don't think anyone expects KS to earn a crust at GP or show up in Rio,but I feel a working retirement is probably the best thing in the world for him.
Anything that keeps body and mind active is a good thing,dressage will do that for him.

I can understand bad feelings on the part of the trainers yard at losing a loved super star, but honestly, the life of a normal horse (care, food,turnout with company and gentle work) is a wonderful way to live out his life.

 

[oldvic]

I do not like secrecy and I fail to see how your answer can embarass me. I request your permission to publish your PM when it arrives otherwise I will delete it without opening it.

My answer is not relevant to others on this thread which is why I PM'd you. I wasn't being secretive, I just didn't see the necessity to publicise it.
I have lost count of the number I have competed but it is probably well into double figures although possibly not treble figures. The amount of racehorses/ex-racehorses I have schooled would be in the region of 300, probably more.

 

[Maesfen]

Need a like button for OV.

 

[Luci07]

Need a like button for OV.

Agreed. I have re schooled 2 ex chasers. It took considerably longer than I had anticipated but I am an amateur! Watched a lot more from the sidelines and reschooling an ex racehorse is not dissimilar to backing a youngster ..you have no idea how it will go till you start. Some are easy, some are tricky but its not a black art.

I am somewhat saddened that a great deal of this thread has become rather antagonistic with people thinking that their way is the only way. And being pretty unpleasant in some cases with incredibly fixed opinions and no facts to support them.

I very much enjoy the positive updates and have yet to see any spectacular commitments as to his next career. Yes he is 13. Yes he has worked hard. Equally management, feeding, etc have come on so far..this is a 13 year old who has always been well cared for, properly attended to. I would rather see his current condition as a real reflection of the care he has had under PN and his yard than as a negative commentary.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

Another person who is saddened to still see people abusing each other over this. Your opinion is your opinion, the only person who has to live with it is you.

Come on folks its Xmas eve lets bury this 'one-up-manship' and let the subject rest, its not as if arguing on here about what he should and shouldnt be doing is going to matter anyway so why attack each other over it

Merry Christmas Everyone

 

[cptrayes]

My answer is not relevant to others on this thread which is why I PM'd you. I wasn't being secretive, I just didn't see the necessity to publicise it.
I have lost count of the number I have competed but it is probably well into double figures although possibly not treble figures. The amount of racehorses/ex-racehorses I have schooled would be in the region of 300, probably more.

Then I am completely bafflled as to why you appear to think that it is so difficult to retrain them, unless you think yourself a very much better trainer than anyone else I know.

I don't intend to read your PM if you will not share your answer to me with others on the thread. I do not like to know information from complete strangers that they would wish me not to share with others. If it's secret, I don't want to be burdened with it thankyou.

 

[oldvic]

There is no secret, just nothing that needs broadcasting as I am sure others are no more interested than you are.

Some are suited to another job, others are not. Nothing baffling, just fact. Whether it is due to conformation, injuries, temperament, movement or a combination of factors, just as not all dressage horses will jump or show jumpers want to go XC. Equally a horse that is a good ride for some is too much of a Ferrari for others.

Now I suggest you accept that not everybody sees things your way and you go away and find someone else to pick on. Happy Christmas.

 

[cptrayes]

Now I suggest you accept that not everybody sees things your way and you go away and find someone else to pick on. Happy Christmas.

Frankly that's more than a bit rude Oldvic, and completely unnecessary.

Have you read a straightforward and reasonable question and a straightforward response to the information you gave as "picking on you" ?

I simply wanted to know if you actually had experience of retraining ex racers, given your apparent concern that KS would not take to being retrained. You do. Fine. You and I don't agree where his future best lies. Fine. I'm not sure what your issue is, to be honest, but I really would appreciate it if you do not post again on a public forum suggesting that you will be sending me a PM that would embarass me if it was made public.

 

[dressedkez]

Snaffle bits at dawn, clearly here!
From my limited experience, most (other then the totally insane TB's - and that goes for all horses) will take some form of re-training - but really good racehorses, are generally good because they have some totally mad tendancies, and need Race Yard experience to deal with that......my own winning racehorse, was a plug to ride, but a nightmare in the stable, I only really knew that when he was really fit, because he would try to savage me on a daily basis. But to ride, I could have put a toddler on him, hacking that was, on the gallops he was fairly text book as most old handicappers are, but nothing awe inspiring, it was really only his behaviour in the stable, that gave us the clues that he was ready to run! Mr Joe Average could never have dealt with him, as he was not text book.

 

[Caledonia]

Why not direct all this energy to helping those no name horses who find themselves on a meat wagon to France . . . or worse (and there is worse)?

P

I already do ........

 

[Caledonia]

This amuses me even more!