Kauto Star at Olympia last night

[SkewbyTwo]

Kauto Star's owner, Clive Smith, was delighted with his pride and joy.

"I'm very proud of him and I feel he can do it," he said.

"He won't do any three-day eventing with cross-country and show jumping, but dressage is harmless for him and he's intelligent, so he will learn the steps."

http://www.attheraces.com/article.a...lay&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 

[Tea Drinker]

The horse looks as well as he ever has done. Probably a hell of a lot healthier than when in full training when racing (tough on their old bodies and all that!) Not enough muscle in the right places. Not enough condition. And a brain wired to the max.

However, it's always a big ask to retrain a racehorse and to do pure dressage is a bit 'odd'. Not like he's some flashy warmblood after all. There was never going to be any kind of big second career by doing pure dressage. Eventing *might* have been a bit stressy on the legs, no wonder after so many years in training.

And why send a horse to do pure dressage to LC, I wonder? Why on Earth would YB choose LC, I wonder.
(No I don't wonder but can't say things incase what I think turns out to be slander!)

Like Denman and loads of other ex racers, they should have sent him off to a lovely small hunting yard. That would have been the best treat for any retired (race)horse. Hunting horses must be amongst the happiest in the world. Canter about all day with their friends once or twice a week with a couple of hacks inbetween. Better than poxy 20metre circles all day and certainly better than being retired within his race yard where all he'd have done was plod up to the gallops and back like some vegetable.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

But ultimately both parties have an agenda, namely publicity, and it is fair enough that the owner has the final say. That's just my perspective on things!! The problem is with horses, there is generally not a 'right answer'.
?

I don't really agree, I think there was a right answer.
The horse had had plenty of publicity, he was a class racehorse and won stacks of cash, the owner is not short of cash and he had plenty of days in the limelight in racing, which is the goal of most owners of this genre.
The horse is never going to be a top class eventer or dressage animal.
The racing trainer did not seek publicity by keeping the horse in his yard, he has plenty of nice horses, he wanted to make sure the horse was kept happy.
I don't know what the owner is wanting to prove, but this is a downward spiral imho.

 

[teapot]

Kauto Star's owner, Clive Smith, was delighted with his pride and joy.

"I'm very proud of him and I feel he can do it," he said.

"He won't do any three-day eventing with cross-country and show jumping, but dressage is harmless for him and he's intelligent, so he will learn the steps."

See I saw that quote on something dated today but I don't know if it's been copied from previous press releases. Though the 'he will learn' comment is an interesting. Oh will he? Just a shame he's not been given the same life as Denman has, an equally valuable and successful racehorse.

 

[Tea Drinker]

He should be hunting like Denman:

http://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/i...ploads/sites/14/imageBank/d/Denman-hedge.jpeg

Of course, there's no publicity in it for anyone, not CS, YB or LC ...but, KS would have a BALL!

 

[MileAMinute]

Denman and loads of other ex racers, they should have sent him off to a lovely small hunting yard. That would have been the best treat for any retired (race)horse. Hunting horses must be amongst the happiest in the world. Canter about all day with their friends once or twice a week with a couple of hacks inbetween. Better than poxy 20metre circles all day and certainly better than being retired within his race yard where all he'd have done was plod up to the gallops and back like some vegetable.

I agree whole heartedly. However, I'm guessing there isn't as much publicity in the hunt field as there is with dressage...

 

[Pigeon]

The horse looks as well as he ever has done. Probably a hell of a lot healthier than when in full training when racing (tough on their old bodies and all that!) Not enough muscle in the right places. Not enough condition. And a brain wired to the max.

However, it's always a big ask to retrain a racehorse and to do pure dressage is a bit 'odd'. Not like he's some flashy warmblood after all. There was never going to be any kind of big second career by doing pure dressage. Eventing *might* have been a bit stressy on the legs, no wonder after so many years in training.

And why send a horse to do pure dressage to LC, I wonder? Why on Earth would YB choose LC, I wonder.
(No I don't wonder but can't say things incase what I think turns out to be slander!)

Like Denman and loads of other ex racers, they should have sent him off to a lovely small hunting yard. That would have been the best treat for any retired (race)horse. Hunting horses must be amongst the happiest in the world. Canter about all day with their friends once or twice a week with a couple of hacks inbetween. Better than poxy 20metre circles all day and certainly better than being retired within his race yard where all he'd have done was plod up to the gallops and back like some vegetable.

I do agree with this. To me, LC doesn't seem enamoured with him. And I (and most people I would think) would be enamoured to have a horse like that, and be able to work with him or train him. She was very 'I'll ride him if I have time' when really it would be nice if he was someone's priority.

Yes!! Send him to a hunting home But again, my dingbat came from a hunting yard and he hated hunting!! He tried to stomp the dogs, wouldn't jump anything, and kept ditching people He's a weirdo though, I think generally hunting is the best thing for them. Dressage was our last desperate bash at doing something useful

Dressage does seem a weird choice for him. LC seems a weird choice for him. I'm sure there's more going on than we know. I imagine they had their reasons, whether they were good ones or not will remain to be seen.

Maybe Carl (aka love of my life) will intervene and give her some coaching?

 

[teapot]

I agree whole heartedly. However, I'm guessing there isn't as much publicity in the hunt field as there is with dressage...

But he's not out doing dressage, he's out doing PR stunts at very select events...

 

[pipsqueek]

I agree whole heartedly. However, I'm guessing there isn't as much publicity in the hunt field as there is with dressage...

Well I don't often comment on here but feel for the horse..and for Laura! Possibly she over did the calmers/sedalin or whatever on a big night when it mattered to go well but it was a very sorry sight. He did not look happy. Hope he can find a happy future, i'm sure he would rather go hunting than trotting round in circles though, bless him

 

[popsdosh]

i have only just got back to this in my opinion the horse himself is being pushed in an unnatural direction by human egos. The lad had had some tough races and owed nobody anything ,but for some reason another high profile change of direction was chosen for him.
A lot of us know the characters involved and on a personal level feel sorry for KS.

 

[Tea Drinker]

On the circuit, there are definitely reasons why LC got the horse. I can't discuss them here. That's not right.
However, even if he ended up with her because of these 'other' reasons, it actually isn't a bad place at all to be for retraining any racehorse. An eventer's yard is a happy half way home between the monotonies of both a pure dressage yard AND a raceyard (where he would not have been in training). He is after all a horse with a brain who eats, ****s and likes to do something meaningful and not some fluffy bloody pet to coo over.

I just don't think that retaining a relatvely elderly racing horse into dressage was the right thing to do for the horse. It's just sooooo dull for a TB to do dressage. Just dressage. They ain't warmbloods. They are highly bred TBs!
Not all TBs convert to happy hunters either. I reckon for 1 in 4, hunting isn't right for them. But they should have given him a go at it. That's the fun option for KS (or any horse). But heavens, imagine the stress levels taking KS out hunting lest an accident befell him - eek!

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

We used to send a few older horses out hunting to freshen them up, but they had a professional jockey on top.
We had a retired world beater as trainers hack, I don't think even the bravest jockey would have taken him hunting! He got one to two hours excercise per day, a few hacks and sometimes led a few up the gallops, six months off in summer, seemed pretty relaxed., but he needed an experienced rider on the gallops. They usually get variety of things to do.

 

[RachelFerd]

Lots of horses do not settle in a hunting home, hunting is right for some, definitely not right for all. Hunting was a NO GO for my horse - one time out was enough to prove it would have melted his brain and got someone hurt. Having seen Kauto's jumping technique on the racetrack, I would not want to take him hunting!! Don't forget that hunting is actually TOUGH on horses, bad ground conditions, badly presented jumps, not actually the equine heaven that many paint it to be.

 

[Tea Drinker]

Lots of horses do not settle in a hunting home, hunting is right for some, definitely not right for all. Hunting was a NO GO for my horse - one time out was enough to prove it would have melted his brain and got someone hurt. Having seen Kauto's jumping technique on the racetrack, I would not want to take him hunting!! Don't forget that hunting is actually TOUGH on horses, bad ground conditions, badly presented jumps, not actually the equine heaven that many paint it to be.

There are many types of hunting country. Plenty of non jumping hunts for a start and even more who never tackle more than a 80cm hunter trial type fence. Any sound horse can safely get over those fences after a little reschooling/gridwork etc
Nor can you possibly know if a horse was suitable for hunting after a single outing. I would suggest 3-6 times before you can take an *informed* decision.
Nor is hunting tough on horses compared to racing. More horses breakdown racing than in any other equine sport combined I daresay.
It would be ridiculously easy to find KS a hunting home where there are easy one-horse days where jumping does not feature.

 

[SkewbyTwo]

It looks almost like she's flapping the reins at him.

It doesn't though. "Flap" implies some looseness. She is jabbing him. Repeatedly, and deliberately.

She rides him like she fears and/or resents him. Whatever the reasons it is an horrific picture, and I'm quite impressed at the BBC's choice of edit.

 

[marmalade76]

I do agree with this. To me, LC doesn't seem enamoured with him. And I (and most people I would think) would be enamoured to have a horse like that, and be able to work with him or train him. She was very 'I'll ride him if I have time' when really it would be nice if he was someone's priority.

Yes!! Send him to a hunting home But again, my dingbat came from a hunting yard and he hated hunting!! He tried to stomp the dogs, wouldn't jump anything, and kept ditching people He's a weirdo though, I think generally hunting is the best thing for them. Dressage was our last desperate bash at doing something useful

Dressage does seem a weird choice for him. LC seems a weird choice for him. I'm sure there's more going on than we know. I imagine they had their reasons, whether they were good ones or not will remain to be seen.

Maybe Carl (aka love of my life) will intervene and give her some coaching?

Totally agree, I thought it was an odd choice for the horse from the start; to do dressage, and to do it with an eventer, on a big yard where he will never be a priority, just a novelty and PR tool, which is a shame.

 

[AdorableAlice]

Looks like 10mg too much to me.

 

[TPO]

Jeez

I watched the first clip and didn't think it was *bad* enough to merit this outpouring. Then as several other posts help the BBC clip up as the *worst* I relented and watched it braced for a car crash but again I didn't see anything that would justify the online campaigns to get him removed from LC.

If you've never had a horse bail on you, never mind publically, then you've not ridden enough horses in enough situations! Whether it was the location, atmosphere or an assumed calmer OD things happen. I don't think anyone currently connected to the horse purposely decided to do anything detrimental with the horse and there's every chance they had no say in the decision for him to appear there.

I don't think she was jabbing him or taking his back teeth out as implied. Even though I hate flash nosebands I didn't see him being yanked etc To me the "flapping" seemed more focused on the loose reins against his neck while trying to mobilise/free it to get him moving. Yes he was swishing his tail and that can be an indicator of many things but in that situation it's certainly not enough to publically hang LC for.

An eventing yard seems like an ideal halfway house for a horse that's been institutionalised his whole life in a racing regime. If he'd been sent hunting, even if no disasters prevailed, there would have been the same outcry that he should have went to a RC/hacking/low level home. You can't please everyone!

I really feel for LC reading this thread; she is but human!

 

[Lyle]

Heaven forbid my horse ever sweats when being worked under saddle, for fear of being accused of doping! I feel for LC, it's the worst feeling when a horse shuts down. I've ridden many OTTBs who do an amazing backwards while forwards impersonation, when you hit that arena, let alone in a claustrophobic atmosphere like Olympia. I don't think LC meant that KS literally got stage fright either! He looks like the noble type of TB that will internalize stress and tension. Before anyone blah blahs about how he should be happy and relaxed, well, maybe when he's a fully experienced competition mount! He's a horse still, he's allowed to get stressed!

As to KS doing dressage and not barreling around jumping, I'm sure there's a very good reason that the general public are not privy to.

KS is a lovely horse who will make a lovely dressage mount with more work.

 

[popsdosh]

TPO I am not criticising the way he was being ridden as you can only ride what you have under you on the day.
However my gripe is with the way he is seemingly being used as a marketing tool and is clearly not happy with some of the things he is being asked to do! whereas Denman has taken up a fairly low key second career with no pressure applied.
I dont like your assumption that racehorses are institutionalised which implies that he is now being rehabbed it could not be further from the truth.
KS suffers I believe because this career path was chosen for what ever reason and I am afraid to say the connections will not change course as it is not in their character. To be blunt LC has to be careful as the owner has at least one more high profile event horse with her.So maybe she has little say!
I suspect there may have been a few wry smiles from Somerset yesterday!

 

[TPO]

Define "happy" without anthorpomorphising?

I would class a racing regime as institulised much in the same way as being in the forces. The majority do need time to adapt to life outside of racing. This doesn't mean rehabbed or recovering it means change and time to. Life on a racing yard and their management to be the best race horses they can differs compared to horses kept for various other reasons. At no time did I say "bad" just different.

Owners can more or less have horses with anyone they can afford. For whatever reasons this owner has picked LC. That's their prerogative and they must be happy to stay.

There have been FAR worse videos posted on here of users and pros riding without anything being said and all "reasons" willing accepted if the rider is deemed to be on the HHO popular list. I don't know, or really care, why LC gets called out but it does come across badly. We are all in this together trying to do the best that we can while hopefully learning and progressing. I don't understand what is to be gained by the bashings the armchair critics dole out. It wouldn't be the first time that the (this) pro in question has seen these threads and I can only imagine it wasnt very pleasant for them.

I just don't see what's to be gained. I'm sure those close to the horse will have taken something away and do what they can. The hirse isn't going to change homes because of an online petition and a thread critiquing the rider.

Good will to all men and all that jazz...

 

[popsdosh]

I have been careful not to criticise LC as I dont have any problem on this occasion with her riding!
I am saying the connections do have a reason for doing what they are doing ,however is that in the horses best interest or not?? They have made this decision and chosen this path and their characters will not let them change course after they made it a very high profile career change! There are many who have been very close to KS over the years who were surprised to say the least with the direction chosen! These were knowledgeable horse people.
Please ask yourself what might be the reason he is where he is ,its not because LC needs a dressage horse!!

 

[avthechav]

Define "happy" without anthorpomorphising?

I would class a racing regime as institulised much in the same way as being in the forces. The majority do need time to adapt to life outside of racing. This doesn't mean rehabbed or recovering it means change and time to. Life on a racing yard and their management to be the best race horses they can differs compared to horses kept for various other reasons. At no time did I say "bad" just different.

Owners can more or less have horses with anyone they can afford. For whatever reasons this owner has picked LC. That's their prerogative and they must be happy to stay.

There have been FAR worse videos posted on here of users and pros riding without anything being said and all "reasons" willing accepted if the rider is deemed to be on the HHO popular list. I don't know, or really care, why LC gets called out but it does come across badly. We are all in this together trying to do the best that we can while hopefully learning and progressing. I don't understand what is to be gained by the bashings the armchair critics dole out. It wouldn't be the first time that the (this) pro in question has seen these threads and I can only imagine it wasnt very pleasant for them.

I just don't see what's to be gained. I'm sure those close to the horse will have taken something away and do what they can. The hirse isn't going to change homes because of an online petition and a thread critiquing the rider.

Good will to all men and all that jazz...

Here here! I think that the only thing that LC did wrong was instead of quietly covering up KSs inattentiveness due to the atmosphere, she tried to address it and get his attention back. That would have been a new experience for her as well, doing dressage tests in front of an eventing crowd or doing demos etc must be a very different experience to riding a green horse in front of an Olympia dressage crowd....even some of the dressage horses lost their attention in that arena. I can see what they are trying to do by using a top racehorse to promote ROR, but maybe Olympia was one step too far?

Also to all those saying retire the horse, he is still relatively young and has run less that a lot of other horses who are retrained successfully, and I don't know much about him but maybe he's not sound enough to stand up to hunting, team chasing etc? I would imagine that his training regime at home isn't massive, after a longish period of time he seems to be doing basic schooling rather than anything high brow?

 

[milesjess]

I have seen her other riding clips and I'll agree she is actually a good, talented rider, no doubt about it. But, I watched her interview on Yard Talk on Horse & Country and she came across like she didn't even want Kauto, she was given him without any choice and admitted the media attention/ negativity was intense.

That said when she has been riding him in other clips he looks great, so surely she knew at Olympia when he shut off she knew that he weren't right and the style of riding she resorted to was horrendous.

Yeah I'm sat behind my TV criticising, when I have my rider faults etc... But even I wouldn't ride my horse like that and I'd launch anyone who did. There's no doubt he's been gobbed, it's clear as day to see.

I feel a bit sorry for her, but arguably she knew the attention she was under and she reacted to it totally wrong. Maybe Kauto is for her, maybe he isn't but I'm hoping she can bring him back out and redeem her performance.

 

[MileAMinute]

LC is a good rider, there is no doubting that. I'm not suggesting K gets taken from her, far from it.

However, I think it's pretty clear (from the clips, at least), that Kauto was not going well. Personally, I think the best decision would have been to call it a day and explain to the audience that he had 'stage fright', or was tired, or whatever excuse deemed necessary, rather than carry on parading a horse and rider partnership that weren't happy on that night. I think the audience would have appreciated that rather than be shown a horse struggling to walk a lap of the arena and its rider struggling to maintain it's pace. Publicity stunt gone completely wrong!

 

[jellybaby2]

Uncomfy viewing. Feel sorry for both KS and LC....

I am intrigued as to the YB/LC link though. Anyone care to enlighten me by PM...?!

JB x

 

[Kati*89]

My chap does a similar thing when we are out and about, warms up beautifully, powers around the ring, we go in and he just dies on me so I do feel sorry for her as it is the worst feeling, I feel like I suddenly lose all position and effectiveness and it all goes to pot...granted he isn't quite, but it did look like he had been worked hard before he came in as he was already in so perhaps it was just all too much for him...if they haven't got a workmanlike attitude and it gets hard they just give up!
I feel bad for her as it is embarrassing and there wasn't much she could do about it once in there!

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

in short, although im no LC fan, i dont think her riding is at fault i just think she doesnt *like* the horse or the pressure that he bought her, and probably doesnt want to do pure dressage on him either!

As good as she is (no questioning she MUST have talent to do what she's done,even on the top class horses she had), she clearly doesnt have the skills to keep the work fresh and happy for KS.

I am slightly irritated by the views on here that all dressage horses do is pound round in circles until their brains turn to mush-BS! mine(and many i know) hack, go to the gallops, do a bit of polework and small jumps, and work in the fields when the ground is good. LC needs to seriously re-think KS's work regime to make it fun for him, to motivate him to want to do it..........................i know how hard this was with CS but she can most certainly tweak a few things to improve his way of going.

He looked all right in the warm up vid so she needs to learn how to motivate his mind to want to perform to the crowds.....................the horse will not be taken from her so she needs to wake up a bit and make the situation better for them both.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

As good as she is (no questioning she MUST have talent to do what she's done,even on the top class horses she had), she clearly doesnt have the skills to keep the work fresh and happy for KS.

I am slightly irritated by the views on here that all dressage horses do is pound round in circles until their brains turn to mush-BS! mine(and many i know) hack, go to the gallops, do a bit of polework and small jumps, and work in the fields when the ground is good. LC needs to seriously re-think KS's work regime to make it fun for him, to motivate him to want to do it..........................i know how hard this was with CS but she can most certainly tweak a few things to improve his way of going.

He looked all right in the warm up vid so she needs to learn how to motivate his mind to want to perform to the crowds.....................the horse will not be taken from her so she needs to wake up a bit and make the situation better for them both.

I am not clear why you are so sure the horse will be staying in the yard, what can he do now ........... eventing or team chasing would be very risky for such a high profile horse, he is not really suited to competitive dressage, probably OK for ROR classes, but his owner is very ambitious, and really re training classes are for amateur owner riders imho, its bit like turning up to the local unafflitated show and finding the jumping classes are filled with pro riders youngsters.
I know it is not easy to try to ride a horse which is not co operating, for whatever reason, but they elected to go there , so really I have no sympathy for those who made the decision.
I can't really believe anyone wuld go to watch her ride this horse .......... what would be the point?

 

[ljohnsonsj]

I have been a bit disgusted by some of the stuff i have read, and the comments that have been made about LC.

The riding in the video was not pretty, the horse looks like it had put the hand-brake on no doubt about it. I have quite a few times took ex racers to shows and they have put the hand-brake on and its literally like riding a wall- and impossible to look pretty doing it, never mind being at olympia. I have seen much worse riding. So people saying she should of brought him out- okay fair comment. Me personally, i believe a horse needs to stay in an atmosphere to get used to it,albeit they might be a bit scared but they need to get used to it. Also, some people would of gone to olympia purely to see her and KS,she had a slot dedicated to her. It wouldn't of been easy for her to go 'er no thanks not today' in a show like that, yes some of you guys may have done that at your local show but olympia is a little diffrent.

Lastly, the hate campaigns and pages i have seen on several social networks are totally ridiculous. So the next time you miss a stride, and your riding looks a bit horrible you would like a whole nation of people to set up a hate campaign and get your horse took off you- No? Well why is it acceptable to do it to her! She made a bit of a boo-boo of riding a backwards horse and unfortunatley it was at a high profile show for all too see. It does NOT make the horse mistreat nor is it a good reason to take him off her. She is a young girl, she will know it was far from her and KS's best performance, but does she really need to type her name into the internet and see thousands of people slating her and saying the horse should be took off her for a bit of sloppy riding! I've found the whole thing totally blown out of proportion and unfair IMHO.