Laminitis caught early - how long before grass?

[ycbm]

It's honestly how it felt this morning TP. I'm sorry you were offended.

 

[stencilface]

my vet had no idea they should not be sedated before testing and from the many times people have asked this question on cushings groups neither do some other vets.

I don't necessarily blame my vet, she's newly qualified and cant be expected to know everything. Certainly something I'm going back to her with though!

 

[equa39]

I'll try and give all the relevant info up front.

Pony is a 16 year old mini with no history of laminitis. Not carrying excessive weight, could lose a pound or two without looking poor, but not much.

She might be starting Cushing's, was very itchy at coat change last year, has been on Agnus castus since then with no issues.i will be getting her tested if she gets another lammy episode or any other symptoms.

Out on loan, loanee let the agnus castus run out and fed too low a dose of foot supplement needed to counteract high iron levels in the grass. Grazing 24/7 on sweet sheep-cropped grass.

Pony obviously sore 'a few days' after the Agnus castus ran out.

I picked her up immediately I was informed and she had to be pushed to the van. She stood camped forward when I got her home, and at that point she had been off grass, that I know of, for three days. No bute or any other medication.

She has now been home a week, back on all supplements. Still no Bute.

She's as bright as a button now, and is happily trotting round a concrete yard and on the arena. Fed unsoaked meadow haylage ad lib. She's not a greedy pony and only picks at a kilo or two in a whole day.

I'm convinced by her amazingly quick recovery that getting her back on the AC, copper, zinc and yeast has been key to this rapid turnaround.

My grazing is abundant but unfertilised, unimproved, very rough hill meadow. I do have electric fencing and could pen her with access to a smaller area if I have to.

Normal routine, if I can get it reestablished, is out at night with the two big boys, in during the day with low quality haylage, supplements in 150g of Spillers Speedy Mash (ultra low calorie feed).

So ...

When would you let her gaze again?

How would you manage it? She is at home, I can, if necessary put her out and get her in at any time of day.




Thanks in advance for your help.




.

May I ask what supplements you use to get the copper / zinc into her?

 

[windand rain]

I wont test mine because I wont treat him and he is needle phobic anyway if he gets laminitis he will be shot simple

 

[bubsqueaks]

I've been doing a bit more research and come across a very interesting suggestion. One of the reasons that I put the pony on Agnus Castus was because of how heavily she came into season, making a complete mess of herself and being very flirty with the big boys. It damped the seasons down nicely last year.

When my loanee told me about the laminitis she said that the agnus castus had run out, the pony had come strongly into season and then straight away got laminitis. I was wondering if there was a connection between the raised hormone levels and the lami.

People might find this an interesting article , which also mentions the role of iron towards the end.

http://www.laminitishelp.org/748/is-there-a-link-between-mares-coming-into-season-and-laminitis/

Ycbm - that's a very interesting & thought provoking article & website - thank you & good luck with your pony.

 

[ycbm]

May I ask what supplements you use to get the copper / zinc into her?

Copper sulphate and zinc sulphate in Spillers Speedy Mash, which is the lowest calorie food I can find that they will eat it in. They don't taste nice! . I have 25 kilo sacks of food grade in my back room!

It's much cheaper than the bioplexes that the supplement companies sell, but I think you can get the sulphates from Equimins by special order if you contact them.


She's bouncing this morning . She's always been a happy pony and I'm loving having her home again. I lent her for a little girl to ride and cuddle, but I missed her sunny little face.



..

 

[Megan V1]

Laminitis is a very complicated illness, I have a TB x Welsh D mare that I bred and backed as a 4 year old when I found out I was pregnant I turned her away for 12 months and got back on when she 5 rising 6. All went well and decided that I would send her away for schooling the Autum after her 6th birthday. She came home fit and well but had been prone to losing front shoes while away which she had not done before. I was riding her at 5 days a week on her return and she was very fit when at the end of October she became so lame she refused to move and went down in her stable, vet called, farrier called and it was confirmed she had laminitis, I was shocked, not overweight, not on rich pasture and plenty of exercise made no sense to me at all. Only change was that she was turned out less as the weather had been extremely wet. Spent the next 7 years with a horse that had 32 abcsesses altogether in all four feet and continued to have bouts of laminitis on off all year round, it was a nightmare. She hated being kept in and if I gave her bute it made painfree enough to jump her stable dooe and gate to the field and get out, if I stopped the bute or reduced it she was in too much pain. I decided it was no life for her and after speaking to vet and farrier I decided to turn her out 24/7 and if she deteriorated then PTS was the only answer. She is now 26, lives out all year round on 16 acres of mixed grazing and has not had laminitis or an abcess since making that decision. Goes to show in her case was not grass related at all. Will never really know why it started with her why it stopped but I have a happy, elderly field ornament.

 

[ycbm]

It's a minefield isn't it Megan V1? What a fascinating story about your mare, thanks for posting that.

Oestrogen seems to be involved in some laminitis, as mares are more likely to get laminitis than geldings. Which might explain why people who think their mare has Cushing's related laminitis report success using agnus castus when it has been proved to have no effect on Cushing's - because it's lowering the effect of oestrogen, not cortisol. And this was almost certainly involved with my mareish little mare, whose Agnus Castus was stopped precipitately. She's now been out all night for nearly a week and is looking really great.

 

[Lurfy]

I hope your pony is going well now ycbm and hopefully won't come down with laminits again. You are so lucky to have her on your property so you can really manage her well.

Megan V1 that is an interesting history with your mare. Who knows what caused it, but what marvellous outcome! I know of ponies who have come down with stress laminitis and also concussion laminitis.

I have a retired tb who gets laminitis in spring so he goes on a dry paddock during that time. He got his first bout of laminitis after a horrendous case of hives. He was prescribed 5 days of cortisone injections and boom, he got laminitis. That was several years ago now. He was not overweight and a very athletic 17hh tb, so it was a shock for the vet and us. He wasn't an obvious candidate. We treated immediately with cryotherapy and fortunately avoided pedal bone rotation. However since this episode he is sensitive to spring grass which means close management.

 

[ycbm]

Just an update for anyone wondering. Pony is on top form, with a sleek apricot coat, bright eyes and a bushy tail. In during the day with the big boys, unimproved wild hill meadow the rest of the time. She's probably lost weight, certainly not gaining any. It's hard work for her little legs on our steep hill. The guys keep her moving and she's never been a greedy pony.

It's lovely to have her chirpy little face around the place again 🌝

 

[meleeka]

Just an update for anyone wondering. Pony is on top form, with a sleek apricot coat, bright eyes and a bushy tail. In during the day with the big boys, unimproved wild hill meadow the rest of the time. She's probably lost weight, certainly not gaining any. It's hard work for her little legs on our steep hill. The guys keep her moving and she's never been a greedy pony.

It's lovely to have her chirpy little face around the place again 🌝

Great update!

I really wish I had a hill. It’s fairly flat everywhere round me. Mine are how on their summer track to maximise movement which is the best I can do .

 

[Lois Lame]

The pony -- when in the care of the loaner -- was on improved pasture. YCBM's grass is a very different kettle of fish. This was stated in the OP's first post...

I'll try and give all the relevant info up front.

Pony is a 16 year old mini with no history of laminitis. Not carrying excessive weight, could lose a pound or two without looking poor, but not much.

She might be starting Cushing's, was very itchy at coat change last year, has been on Agnus castus since then with no issues.i will be getting her tested if she gets another lammy episode or any other symptoms.

Out on loan, loanee let the agnus castus run out and fed too low a dose of foot supplement needed to counteract high iron levels in the grass. Grazing 24/7 on sweet sheep-cropped grass.

Pony obviously sore 'a few days' after the Agnus castus ran out.

I picked her up immediately I was informed and she had to be pushed to the van. She stood camped forward when I got her home, and at that point she had been off grass, that I know of, for three days. No bute or any other medication.

She has now been home a week, back on all supplements. Still no Bute.

She's as bright as a button now, and is happily trotting round a concrete yard and on the arena. Fed unsoaked meadow haylage ad lib. She's not a greedy pony and only picks at a kilo or two in a whole day.

I'm convinced by her amazingly quick recovery that getting her back on the AC, copper, zinc and yeast has been key to this rapid turnaround.

My grazing is abundant but unfertilised, unimproved, very rough hill meadow. I do have electric fencing and could pen her with access to a smaller area if I have to.

Normal routine, if I can get it reestablished, is out at night with the two big boys, in during the day with low quality haylage, supplements in 150g of Spillers Speedy Mash (ultra low calorie feed).

So ...

When would you let her gaze again?

How would you manage it? She is at home, I can, if necessary put her out and get her in at any time of day.

Thanks in advance for your help..

I think the pony would be fine to go back out on your grass in your old routine (out at night and in during the day).

ETA: I read this whole thread this morning.

 

[Lois Lame]

Laminitis is a very complicated illness, I have a TB x Welsh D mare that I bred and backed as a 4 year old when I found out I was pregnant I turned her away for 12 months and got back on when she 5 rising 6. All went well and decided that I would send her away for schooling the Autum after her 6th birthday. She came home fit and well but had been prone to losing front shoes while away which she had not done before. I was riding her at 5 days a week on her return and she was very fit when at the end of October she became so lame she refused to move and went down in her stable, vet called, farrier called and it was confirmed she had laminitis, I was shocked, not overweight, not on rich pasture and plenty of exercise made no sense to me at all. Only change was that she was turned out less as the weather had been extremely wet. Spent the next 7 years with a horse that had 32 abcsesses altogether in all four feet and continued to have bouts of laminitis on off all year round, it was a nightmare. She hated being kept in and if I gave her bute it made painfree enough to jump her stable dooe and gate to the field and get out, if I stopped the bute or reduced it she was in too much pain. I decided it was no life for her and after speaking to vet and farrier I decided to turn her out 24/7 and if she deteriorated then PTS was the only answer. She is now 26, lives out all year round on 16 acres of mixed grazing and has not had laminitis or an abcess since making that decision. Goes to show in her case was not grass related at all. Will never really know why it started with her why it stopped but I have a happy, elderly field ornament.

Couldn't it have been grass related but held at bay by sufficient natural exercise?