Laminitis with no improvement

[PSD]

Vets have said just keep an eye on her over the next couple of hours. Said it’s potentially a cumulation of yesterday’s visit and the medication wiping her out. But a friend on the yard has given me some fibre beet to try her with later, just concerned that she’s not eaten and had medication it surely can’t be making her feel great

 

[PSD]

I think they vary, she will feel rubbish and by giving the feet a rest it may help as long as she does get up and change sides regularly with periods of being stood up, I would be concerned by her complete lack of appetite as eating nothing suggests she is giving up, see what the vet thinks, they may be on skeleton staff but she is undergoing treatment and they will be prepared to take your call.

Can you access any areas to pick some bits and bobs, obviously you don't want to feed lots of rich grass but a few handfuls may brighten her day, the goosegrass is growing and most love that, nettles pulled and wilted are enjoyed by some as are dandelions, just a few may help and they are all good in various ways, my pony used to get lots of 'weeds' when he was on box rest, as long as you know they are from a safe place it is worth a try.

that’s a good idea! I will have a wander down to the paddocks and pick her a few bits up to see if that helps her. The lack of eating bothers me too, not to mention the colic risk. Why oh why do they do this to us!?

 

[AmyMay]

Have you had the x ray results?

 

[Ceriann]

Good advice re picking her some bits. When box resting mine (not for laminitis), I picked some branches so she could nibble leaves and wilted nettles (pretty quick with this weather) and bunched them for her. I put bits and bobs in different places in stable for interest. So sorry she seems so miserable - not experienced it but you are doing your very best for her and lots of very knowledgeable people on here.

 

[throughtheforest]

At the moment now you have some idea of whats going on with her, I would try and work out the best way of keeping her comfortable on top of pain meds and try and see what sort of food she would like, mine responded well to Thunderbrooks healthy herbal chaff and magnesium oxide in that made the world of difference to him.
It's a matter of trial and error and one day something will kick in and she will turn a corner.

 

[PurBee]

The heat from the abscess and pressure from that building inside the hoof causes pain and they will lay down more with them. My gelding pops an abscess bi-annually and he walks as if his leg is broken for 3 days while the abscess is brewing. I soak him during this time, animalintex pads etc. Once its tracked through to releasing out the foot sole, frog, or heel bulb, he walks fine. So abscesses are very painful for them. He would lay down a lot during the days they were brewing.

Your girl has more going on too with the medication etc, so its expected she’ll be down more.

Im wondering if there is a small, soft ground, turnout area very close to her stable she could be out in for a couple of hours?... as movement on suitable soft ground can stimulate blood flow to the hoof moreso than standing in a stable...and help pop that abscess faster.
It might also help to lift her spirits to be out in the fresh air and sun, see other horses, have a bit of a munch.

Isolation does affect animals, when i was a child our young GSD had a kidney infection...off to vets overnight...she got worse...she stayed there, only for reports of her getting worse daily, then she wouldnt eat....we went there eventually to say goodbye to her as vets suggested pts...when we arrived she jumped up at us and was crazy happy to see us, while the vets were amazed how suddenly she showed life...she came home with us and was fine. She missed her usual routine and family, and just laid there at the vets refusing everything they offered. She gave up.

Is there another horse/pony your horse is close to that she’s been separated from while she’s been on box rest? Can she still interact with horses from her stable? Complete isolation/loneliness is difficult for man aswell as beast (as covid19 isolation is revealing) Horses love to be in a herd...even if thats a tiny herd!

 

[holeymoley]

Mine would have breakfast then go down late morning back up for lunch then back down again. It’s good for them to take the weight off their hooves. I agree with the picking, a little bit of something she likes could cheer her up. I left the stable door open for mine when I was around so he could walk out if he wanted to and mooch about.

 

[PSD]

Have you had the x ray results?

yes the rotation has reduced from 10 degrees to 4 in her worst foot and the other is the same

The heat from the abscess and pressure from that building inside the hoof causes pain and they will lay down more with them. My gelding pops an abscess bi-annually and he walks as if his leg is broken for 3 days while the abscess is brewing. I soak him during this time, animalintex pads etc. Once its tracked through to releasing out the foot sole, frog, or heel bulb, he walks fine. So abscesses are very painful for them. He would lay down a lot during the days they were brewing.

Your girl has more going on too with the medication etc, so its expected she’ll be down more.

Im wondering if there is a small, soft ground, turnout area very close to her stable she could be out in for a couple of hours?... as movement on suitable soft ground can stimulate blood flow to the hoof moreso than standing in a stable...and help pop that abscess faster.
It might also help to lift her spirits to be out in the fresh air and sun, see other horses, have a bit of a munch.

Isolation does affect animals, when i was a child our young GSD had a kidney infection...off to vets overnight...she got worse...she stayed there, only for reports of her getting worse daily, then she wouldnt eat....we went there eventually to say goodbye to her as vets suggested pts...when we arrived she jumped up at us and was crazy happy to see us, while the vets were amazed how suddenly she showed life...she came home with us and was fine. She missed her usual routine and family, and just laid there at the vets refusing everything they offered. She gave up.

Is there another horse/pony your horse is close to that she’s been separated from while she’s been on box rest? Can she still interact with horses from her stable? Complete isolation/loneliness is difficult for man aswell as beast (as covid19 isolation is revealing) Horses love to be in a herd...even if thats a tiny herd!

unfortunately getting her out of the stable isn’t an option as she is just too uncomfortable to even move in her stable and refuses to come out. There are some horses on the yard that are still in but most are out on turnout now due to coronavirus. It’s a really hard situation without all this self isolating as we aren’t allowed near each other or each other’s horses. It really is a super tough time at the moment

 

[throughtheforest]

I agree with trying to perk her up a bit, anything you can possibly get away with at all even if she likes a certain dog, just trying to think outside the box a bit!

 

[PurBee]

yes the rotation has reduced from 10 degrees to 4 in her worst foot and the other is the same



unfortunately getting her out of the stable isn’t an option as she is just too uncomfortable to even move in her stable and refuses to come out. There are some horses on the yard that are still in but most are out on turnout now due to coronavirus. It’s a really hard situation without all this self isolating as we aren’t allowed near each other or each other’s horses. It really is a super tough time at the moment

I understand. Many yards are designed far away from paddocks, which is a shame, as under box rest scenario a small area, so they cant go loopy on loads of grass but get some more movement and fresh air/interaction can be so useful.

Do you know anyone with a thermal imaging camera? You could use that to look at her abscess hoof and see where its located and possibly help farrier to relieve it. Im surprised vets and farriers dont carry around heat imaging cameras as theyre so useful for seeing where possible pain=heat problems originate. Maybe ask your vet/farrier?

There are thermal imaging apps you use in combo with a smarphone if your tech savvy:
https://thermogears.com/best-thermal-imaging-apps-android-ios/


I’ve used animalintex medicated poultice pads with great success to help abscesses pop quickly. Maybe someone on the yard has a stock they can lend you one from? You momentarily dunk the pad in boiling hot water, and apply to the sole hot, squish it into the frog and gaps....and wrap it in place with vet-wrap. You can do it with shoes on. Sometimes within 24hrs the abscess has popped and leaves a gunky mess on the pad. If the abscess wants to track out at the white line, the shoe might prevent that from happening, and cause it to track under the sole, and out at the frog/bars/heel bulb.

 

[PSD]

I understand. Many yards are designed far away from paddocks, which is a shame, as under box rest scenario a small area, so they cant go loopy on loads of grass but get some more movement and fresh air/interaction can be so useful.

Do you know anyone with a thermal imaging camera? You could use that to look at her abscess hoof and see where its located and possibly help farrier to relieve it. Im surprised vets and farriers dont carry around heat imaging cameras as theyre so useful for seeing where possible pain=heat problems originate. Maybe ask your vet/farrier?

There are thermal imaging apps you use in combo with a smarphone if your tech savvy:
https://thermogears.com/best-thermal-imaging-apps-android-ios/


I’ve used animalintex medicated poultice pads with great success to help abscesses pop quickly. Maybe someone on the yard has a stock they can lend you one from? You momentarily dunk the pad in boiling hot water, and apply to the sole hot, squish it into the frog and gaps....and wrap it in place with vet-wrap. You can do it with shoes on. Sometimes within 24hrs the abscess has popped and leaves a gunky mess on the pad. If the abscess wants to track out at the white line, the shoe might prevent that from happening, and cause it to track under the sole, and out at the frog/bars/heel bulb.

they picked up on the location through the X-ray as it was a shadow area that they saw and suggested a possible abscess, so we’re not 100% sure that’s what it is. I’ve wrapped her feet up with animalintex and a nappy so just have to hope it draws out. Her feet have both been wrapped up for over a week now though after her resection would I can’t see it being an abscess unless it’s deeply rooted

 

[ycbm]

Dead laminae, killed by the laminitic attack, will be breaking down, then causing an abscess from inside. It's a common result. I hope it exits soon and eases your mind.

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[PSD]

Dead laminae, killed by the laminitic attack, will be breaking down, then causing an abscess from inside. It's a common result. I hope it exits soon and eases your mind.

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that’s right, the farrier said it could be serum behind where the hoof wall has separated, is this this same thing?

 

[ester]

no serum and dead cells are different, but both lami issues.

 

[ycbm]

The most likely exit will be at the coronet band, have you poulticed right up the hoof?

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[Fragglerock]

My horse took about 4 weeks before the abscess came out at the coronet band.

 

[PSD]

The most likely exit will be at the coronet band, have you poulticed right up the hoof?

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I have yes

My horse took about 4 weeks before the abscess came out at the coronet band.

I’m hoping this doesn’t take 4 weeks, I don’t think she will be able to stand the pain for that long alongside the laminitis

 

[Fragglerock]

I have yes



I’m hoping this doesn’t take 4 weeks, I don’t think she will be able to stand the pain for that long alongside the laminitis

It was a long 4 weeks but only in the one foot although he had laminitis in the 2 months leading up to it (his was mild in that he looked uncomfortable on concrete and not too bad in the stable). He wasn't lying down at all with the abscess which worried me as he likes a sleep, I think he was worried about getting up, and he is not a diva about pain. The difference in him when it burst was instant. He has been up and down since then but after 8 months I am now back riding him - as much as I can with this going on.

 

[PSD]

Well I’ve been informed by my yard owner this morning that we can only visit once a day and that she will administer the medication in a morning which I’m not happy about at all. I don’t think she realises the amount she has to give her plus soaking her nets too. I wish this coronavirus would get gone!

 

[The Jokers Girl]

Your pony sounds very advanced in its suffering and its feet seem seriously compromised. I ma shocked that your vet has advised walking it around. Are they a specialist equine vet? No active laminitic should be anywhere but in a stable with very deep bedding and imobilised as much as possible. It is a myth that they are stabled to stop them eating grass. They are stable to stop them moving and the laminae are separated and the hoof structure cannot super their weight. The pain of laminitis is likened to having your fingernail ripped out. When mine came down if it a few years back she was imobilised for 6 weeks, I had to muck out around her and keep her on shavings 8" deep, for the next 6 weeks she was allowed one lap of the yard and then increased to 30 mins turnout of a very small patch of scrub ground. Laminitis is not always treatable so you need to start making plans and decisions and possibly seeking a 2nd opinion as your vets advise to walk around a crippled pony is shocking.

 

[Ceriann]

Can you type out a note for your YO to follow? Its so hard for this to all be happening now for you but get the details down and you can feel comfortable there is no doubt what needs doing?

 

[ester]

My biggest concern would not be that I couldnt' medicate her myself, but that I couldn't check her demeanor.

 

[PSD]

My biggest concern would not be that I couldnt' medicate her myself, but that I couldn't check her demeanor.

this is another worry for me. YO doesn’t know the pony so can’t tell me whether she’s picking up or worsening. She’s asked me to leave her a note with details of everything on but I’m really not comfortable with doing it, I know we have to limit outside time but I deem this an exceptional circumstance

 

[millikins]

this is another worry for me. YO doesn’t know the pony so can’t tell me whether she’s picking up or worsening. She’s asked me to leave her a note with details of everything on but I’m really not comfortable with doing it, I know we have to limit outside time but I deem this an exceptional circumstance

Would your vet give you a letter confirming this is indeed an exceptional situation? Which would take the responsibility from YO for isolation.

 

[PSD]

Would your vet give you a letter confirming this is indeed an exceptional situation? Which would take the responsibility from YO for isolation.

I’m not sure they would as the fact she’s offering to administer the medication would mean animal welfare is covered. The fact I’m not comfortable is just my issue really isn’t it, I’ll be sending her a detailed list of everything she needs in a morning and hoping YO runs a mile ?

 

[millikins]

I’m not sure they would as the fact she’s offering to administer the medication would mean animal welfare is covered. The fact I’m not comfortable is just my issue really isn’t it, I’ll be sending her a detailed list of everything she needs in a morning and hoping YO runs a mile ?

I would certainly ask. I would be deeply unhappy at leaving an extremely sick animal in the care of a non veterinary person who is unfamiliar with it. She doesn't just need meds, she needs close monitoring, didn't they want to hospitalise her but she was unfit to travel?

 

[PSD]

I would certainly ask. I would be deeply unhappy at leaving an extremely sick animal in the care of a non veterinary person who is unfamiliar with it. She doesn't just need meds, she needs close monitoring, didn't they want to hospitalise her but she was unfit to travel?

I mean don’t get me wrong she is a very experienced horse person however I just don’t think she’s being fully accommodating. I’m fully aware of the government guidelines and it states nowhere that livestock cannot be tended to more than once so why she is saying this is beyond me. I think I’m quite within my rights to want to see to my own horse, plus she wants us to pay her!

 

[Ceriann]

Can you perhaps suggest a second time that is very early or late (so no one else there)? Only alternative I can think is a video cam so you can see her - i know its not the same.

 

[millikins]

I mean don’t get me wrong she is a very experienced horse person however I just don’t think she’s being fully accommodating. I’m fully aware of the government guidelines and it states nowhere that livestock cannot be tended to more than once so why she is saying this is beyond me. I think I’m quite within my rights to want to see to my own horse, plus she wants us to pay her!

I think you need to fight this. All through your post you have been considering that you might need to pts, and that decision would be because of a sudden deterioration and on veterinary advice. Your mare is still under active treatment from your vet, and however experienced your YO if she has not been part of the day to day care of your horse she might not recognise worsening condition, particularly if she now has the whole yard to attend to. No Govt restrictions would deny necessary veterinary intervention, I would be insisting I attend to my horse.

 

[AmyMay]

If she won’t allow you up twice a day, under these circumstances I’m afraid I’d pts.