Laminitis with no improvement

[meleeka]

If she won’t allow you up twice a day, under these circumstances I’m afraid I’d pts.

After all OP has been through with this mare? I’d put the YO down first ?

 

[AmyMay]

After all OP has been through with this mare? I’d put the YO down first ?

I think it’s the inevitable outcome sadly (sorry op), and has now become a welfare issue if the OP is no longer able to care for her properly herself.

 

[holeymoley]

Your pony sounds very advanced in its suffering and its feet seem seriously compromised. I ma shocked that your vet has advised walking it around. Are they a specialist equine vet? No active laminitic should be anywhere but in a stable with very deep bedding and imobilised as much as possible. It is a myth that they are stabled to stop them eating grass. They are stable to stop them moving and the laminae are separated and the hoof structure cannot super their weight. The pain of laminitis is likened to having your fingernail ripped out. When mine came down if it a few years back she was imobilised for 6 weeks, I had to muck out around her and keep her on shavings 8" deep, for the next 6 weeks she was allowed one lap of the yard and then increased to 30 mins turnout of a very small patch of scrub ground. Laminitis is not always treatable so you need to start making plans and decisions and possibly seeking a 2nd opinion as your vets advise to walk around a crippled pony is shocking.

I agree with the majority of your post having experienced the same unfortunate circumstances myself. However, the horse has had remedial shoeing which has corrected the trim, walking on the horse’s own accord (not forced) will encourage the blood supply to heal and promote new hoof growth. I wouldn’t walk at all at the first instance when the laminae is inflamed as you then risk the increase in rotation or sinking. OP’s horse has had this for 3 months and as said above trimmed to correct and shod. The problem she now has is the abscess/seroma which has yet to come to the surface.

 

[holeymoley]

OP I’m frustrated for you with the Yo. I’d fight with every being that I have to make her see sense in you going up twice a day. Get gloves, mask, disinfectant whatever, tell her you will be ONLY seeing to your horse and no more.

 

[moosea]

Sorry op, I would have pts a while ago. If you are now in a position where you cannot care for the horse then I see little other option.

 

[ycbm]

If she won’t allow you up twice a day, under these circumstances I’m afraid I’d pts.

I'm sorry, but I would be in this camp too.

This lockdown will be a lot longer than 3 weeks, as it has been everywhere else that's ahead of us. You will be driving yourself crazy. If you PTS you will know she is no longer in pain.

.

 

[PSD]

I’ve been really nice about it and put my point across. I just can’t understand why she’s allowing liveries to ride but when it’s a genuine necessity I can’t go to administer medication. This is not what I need right now!

 

[millikins]

I’ve been really nice about it and put my point across. I just can’t understand why she’s allowing liveries to ride but when it’s a genuine necessity I can’t go to administer medication. This is not what I need right now!

Forget being nice, stand your ground, YO is being unreasonable and compromising the veterinary welfare of a horse in her care. Your horse needs more than "administering medication", she needs close monitoring. I agree with the posters who would be looking at pts in these circumstances though if you and your vet think there is still some hope for your horse I would try and enlist their support first and if necessary call WHW and discuss the welfare issue with them.

 

[meleeka]

Give her written instructions and make them as complicated as you can. When she realises it might be more work than she thought she might just relent. Do you have a set time to be there on your once a day?

 

[PSD]

Give her written instructions and make them as complicated as you can. When she realises it might be more work than she thought she might just relent. Do you have a set time to be there on your once a day?

good idea! She’s told everyone to go to the yard after 1pm, where is the logic in this though? As then everyone will be down together anyway! I’m truly baffled. I also have to change dressings twice a day

 

[Equi]

Yo is not being unreasonable at all it’s their property and they are in direct risk by letting people into it. Any yards that are still open are being very very good, I’m incredibly thankful my yard is still open!

Op you’ve been through so much with her so it is hard to say as I want a good news story more than anything but with the new abscess and the way things are globally I’d really think about pts on welfare grounds. Yo is very good to offer to give meds etc but you are going to put a lot of stress on both them and yourself for what is probably a low chance of recovery anyway. Thank about the future now, this mare is on boxrest for the next few months after already being on it for nearly 4, she is likely not able to ever graze normally again or eat a normal diet, she may never come in to work again. Is her life after this doing to be significantly better or worse than it was before she became ill? What if you become ill tomorrow and are not able to see her for 2 weeks?

 

[AmyMay]

I’ve been really nice about it and put my point across. I just can’t understand why she’s allowing liveries to ride but when it’s a genuine necessity I can’t go to administer medication. This is not what I need right now!

So, to be clear, other liveries can go up but you can’t?

 

[ester]

I think they can all go up but only once a day.

 

[Ceriann]

OP has been told she can only go up once a day.

 

[PSD]

Okay I’ve had a chat with YO and she now understands where I’m coming from and why I cannot only visit once a day so we have an agreement that I can attend in the morning to give her the meds and change the dressing and return in the evening to finish off.
That’s one stress over with, with regards to if I got sick and couldn’t attend the yard, I’m not sure what I would do if I’m honest. I am taking each day as it comes for the moment but the only option would be to have my YO step in. I’ll be honest, I hadn’t thought that far ahead admits the chaos.

 

[ester]

Please make sure you give your YO something in writing that either herself, or that she is to contact someone else you trust if you are sick/cannot attend and the mare needs decisions making.
We have ours at home but both our freelancer and a friend have letters saying they have permission to make a PTS decision if we aren't there.

 

[PSD]

Please make sure you give your YO something in writing that either herself, or that she is to contact someone else you trust if you are sick/cannot attend and the mare needs decisions making.
We have ours at home but both our freelancer and a friend have letters saying they have permission to make a PTS decision if we aren't there.

thank you this is a very good bit of advice. I am currently writing up a care plan should it be needed, I feel now though like I’ve overreacted to having my YO owner do the morning meds and dressing change as if (god forbid) I was to get struck by the virus or need to self isolate, I would need her to step in (she won’t allow other liveries to help and new visitors to the yard).

Yo is not being unreasonable at all it’s their property and they are in direct risk by letting people into it. Any yards that are still open are being very very good, I’m incredibly thankful my yard is still open!

Op you’ve been through so much with her so it is hard to say as I want a good news story more than anything but with the new abscess and the way things are globally I’d really think about pts on welfare grounds. Yo is very good to offer to give meds etc but you are going to put a lot of stress on both them and yourself for what is probably a low chance of recovery anyway. Thank about the future now, this mare is on boxrest for the next few months after already being on it for nearly 4, she is likely not able to ever graze normally again or eat a normal diet, she may never come in to work again. Is her life after this doing to be significantly better or worse than it was before she became ill? What if you become ill tomorrow and are not able to see her for 2 weeks?

You have a very valid point, something I hadn’t actually considered. I’m writing up the care plan for the 2 weeks if it is needed (hopefully not) at this time though I am not sure what things will be like if she does come out the other side of the laminitis. For now I’m just taking it day by day and assessing how she is coping/progressing with it. For now she is comfortable again (minus the abscess) and I’m hoping once that goes she will continue to improve. I’m not sure if you have ever dealt with it but it is a massive emotional rollercoaster and every day I question myself and whether I’m making the right choices for her as opposed to me. It’s so tough

 

[The Jokers Girl]

I agree with the majority of your post having experienced the same unfortunate circumstances myself. However, the horse has had remedial shoeing which has corrected the trim, walking on the horse’s own accord (not forced) will encourage the blood supply to heal and promote new hoof growth. I wouldn’t walk at all at the first instance when the laminae is inflamed as you then risk the increase in rotation or sinking. OP’s horse has had this for 3 months and as said above trimmed to correct and shod. The problem she now has is the abscess/seroma which has yet to come to the surface.

I read in one of the posts that OP posted that there is still further rotation and that is why there is such an urgency for re x raying, apologies if I misread, there are a lot of replies on this post. If the laminitis is still very much active, the laminae still compromised and inflamed and further rotation occurring the pony should not even be removed from the stable to muck out, walk around etc. As long as the pony has a box big enough to allow movement and a deep enough bed the movement it can manage on it's own accord should help compression of the frog and therefore blood flow.

 

[be positive]

Your YO should get an 'authority to act' from every client, in fact every YO should get these now just in case the worst should happen while the owner is unwell and waiting for a reply to a text/ call is not in the best interests of the horse, a vet can make the decision but it is far better for the horse, owner, vet and YO if this is set up already, they should be able to call a vet any time of day or night, certainly any who are taking over full livery care or other restrictive measures need to know they can be trusted to contact a vet, the owner could have been rushed into hospital and be out of contact while a horse is suffering from colic.

It will not give them the power to have a horse pts that is otherwise healthy or get a vet to deal with a minor injury so should not be a concern for the owner but will give some peace of mind if they are taken ill, or worse.

 

[ITPersonnage]

I think there's plenty of us who have been in exactly your shoes with laminitis before but not with these horrendous "other factors" involved as well. Only you can decide when your mare has had enough, you see her and know her better than anybody else. I just wish you the very best, it is a heartbreaking situation to be in so just do your best and know that you are the first or last person to throw the towel in if that's what you decide to do.

 

[PurBee]

OP I’m frustrated for you with the Yo. I’d fight with every being that I have to make her see sense in you going up twice a day. Get gloves, mask, disinfectant whatever, tell her you will be ONLY seeing to your horse and no more.

Agreed, hopefully her YO will balk at the work needed for the pony, considering she has the rest of the yard to care for too.
the government guidelines are unlimited if caring for the ‘vulnerable’. Animal or human, whilst maintaining distancing guidelines. So if a person or animal needs medication administering 5 x a day, that is ‘allowed’.
‘Essential’ verses ‘non essential’ -medical care and monitoring of medical health status for animal or human is essential.

Your YO knows youre only dealing with your horse, and seperating yourself, i’d talk with them, with back up from your vet that only you are qualified in this case to know your horses status, as a stranger doesnt ‘know’ the horse.

fingers crossed for you she allows your continued visits for your horse.

 

[PSD]

So my YO has issued a message to state any horse that is fit enough to live out must do so. Near to stay in “in case they throw a coat” or these crazy other reasons people don’t turn them out for. There is myself and 1 other livery (stabled on the other side of the yard) who is permitted to be there. Other liveries will have to pay for full livery if theirs have to stay in but aren’t actively unwell (previously laminitic but no meds) which I think is fair. It’s such a hard situation for everyone to be in and I can only imagine it will worsen, my girl is actually picking up aside of her soreness with this abscess she is otherwise quite content. I’m lucky she’s quite placid really, I’ve got the farrier back tomorrow to refit her left fore heartbar as he didn’t want to do them both at the same time When having her x rays Friday, as she was quite sore from them faffing about with her. I hope you’re all keeping safe and things aren’t too stressful for you all at this horrendous time

 

[Yeomans]

How is your horse doing Pictus?

 

[PSD]

How is your horse doing Pictus?

thanks for asking.

she is a lot better this last day or so, Wednesday she had a mild dose of colic because she decided she didn’t want to eat and it caused her to get into a bit of a state. Not sure why she decided she wasn’t eating but obviously on the amount of medication she’s on it didn’t help her situation. Anyway the vet came and gave her a rectal in case of impaction however everything was clear and how it should be, they gave her fluids and electrolytes and she perked up a lot. Still waiting for the abscess to come through but they vets have now removed the shoes as they feel it won’t be helping with the pressure in her foot from this abscess and laminitis - obviously the main priority is to ensure she is as pain free as possible. She’s still very sore but I think the majority of the pain is coming from this abscess, I’m really hoping I see it come through soon because it’s been a week since her last x rays and I really don’t want to be chasing the thing for weeks on end like some people do!

but all in all there is improvement, my vet is keen to reduce the pain relief as soon as we reasonably can so not to cause any other side effects, so this abscess needs to get itself out now as I’m hoping once it is, she will begin to feel a lot better

 

[be positive]

Good she is doing ok, the issue you have with the abscess is that the anti inflammatories, that she must have for the laminitis, will suppress the abscess and probably slow down it's progress which may they take a long time to come out, are you tubbing every day as well as poulticing? as that should help get it moving but be patient as it will come out eventually.

Do what you can to encourage her to drink, when they are on soaked hay they tend to drink far less and can get a bit dehydrated, being really well hydrated will help prevent colic but is also good for healing generally, she obviously cannot have treats but if you can give a bucket of very sloppy speedibeet/ electrolytes/whatever she likes that may tempt her to drink more as well as plain water it may help.

It seems she is heading in the right direction and that this vet is so much better than the previous one that whatever the outcome you now know you have done everything possible.

 

[PSD]

Good she is doing ok, the issue you have with the abscess is that the anti inflammatories, that she must have for the laminitis, will suppress the abscess and probably slow down it's progress which may they take a long time to come out, are you tubbing every day as well as poulticing? as that should help get it moving but be patient as it will come out eventually.

Do what you can to encourage her to drink, when they are on soaked hay they tend to drink far less and can get a bit dehydrated, being really well hydrated will help prevent colic but is also good for healing generally, she obviously cannot have treats but if you can give a bucket of very sloppy speedibeet/ electrolytes/whatever she likes that may tempt her to drink more as well as plain water it may help.

It seems she is heading in the right direction and that this vet is so much better than the previous one that whatever the outcome you now know you have done everything possible.

I’m not tubbing but I’m going to give it a go as a friend suggested this but with Epsom salts too, is that safe to do?

I actually thought about giving her some speedi beet but I wasn’t 100% sure it was safe for laminitis. It was more because I wanted to up her fibre intake especially if she isn’t keen on eating her hay

 

[holeymoley]

Yes espsom salts are the way to go for tubbing.
Speedi beet is fine too for laminitics.

 

[be positive]

I’m not tubbing but I’m going to give it a go as a friend suggested this but with Epsom salts too, is that safe to do?

I actually thought about giving her some speedi beet but I wasn’t 100% sure it was safe for laminitis. It was more because I wanted to up her fibre intake especially if she isn’t keen on eating her hay

Speedibeet is a good source of fibre and also carries plenty of fluid into the hindgut which should help her stay well hydrated.

Tubbing with Epsom salts should help soften the hoof and give a better chance of the abscess coming out, get the water hot but not so hot it will cause discomfort where the resection has been done, you probably don't want that part in the water if avoidable.

 

[holeymoley]

I’m now wondering if it’s a good idea to tub. You don’t want to soften the hoof too much.

I fed Formula 4 Feet while my guy was growing new hoof- he has super strong feet now. Just an after thought I forgot to mention before.

 

[PSD]

The speedy beet was a hit. She’s back to eating every last scrap, I’m not really sure what was going on with her but I think the amount of medication was a huge factor. She’s now only (I say only haha) on 1.5 bute and 20 paracetamol twice a day and the difference is amazing! She’s brighter, happier to stand more and just looks all round happier. This is opposed to what she was on - 2x bute, 20 paracetamol, 1.5ml sedalin, 20ml pentoxifyllin twice a day. I think it was just too much for her.

still no sign of the abscess and it’s been a week now, really hoping it’s not going to be one of these pain in the bum abscesses that take weeks to come through. However I am questioning if that’s even what it is, her soreness has improved massively however she still is obviously sore. All a bit baffling really! Horses eh