Loan Pony Breach of Contact

3BayGeldings said:
I seem to be in the minority here, in that I can totally see the OP's point of view! Why shouldn't the contract be stuck to afterall? If the owners of the pony wanted to be able to take it away for a week, or ride it every day, then don't loan it out. Why should the OP pay for the use of the pony and look after it, and then just be shoved aside whenever she gets in the way?

I'd look for better people to loan from.
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I 100% agree with you - I think that the OP has been treated very badly - and if a contact is in place I would definately go along the legal route. They have nothing to lose - but for the amount of money the OP is paying, they could get a lovely pony of their own. I would tell the owner to "bog off" and return the 3 months payment upfront.

Edit to correct spellings - it is Saturday eve!!!!
 
Billie1007 said:
I think it is clear that you have never had a sharer take the mick!? You can't use the words 'let', 'permission', 'never', 'stop' when you are a sharer/loaner. It is the position you put yourself in when you become a sharer. Precisely the reason why I ended up buying my own. I have had a sharer and I would like to think I didn't treat her badly. If a sharer ever tried to tell me that I couldn't take my horse away on a camp (with prior notice) because it breached her original arrangement then I would politely tell them to bog off. I wonder how many sharers arrange holiday cover for 'their' days if they are away. Very few I would imagine - the owner is expected to cover those days!!

Laughable!
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It is laughable that people putting up their horses for share expect to be able to change things as they like and the sharer can lump it. The difference in your example of taking your horse to camp and the OP's story is in the "with prior notice" part of the paragraph. OP is being treated badly by the owners. Both sides should be polite to each other.
 
mcnaughty said:
Others on here - please never loan a horse out - you obviously have absolutely no respect for anyone that would loan from you and it would be a roller coaster of pain for your poor loanee!
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I wouldn't. I won't have anyone dictating to me what I do with my horse. I have let plenty of people borrow/ride/compete my horse over the years but I won't take money for it because I won't give anyone else 'rights' over him.

Please could you also stop the personal comments towards cptrayes, there is no need for the insults.
 
Honey08 said:
It is laughable that people putting up their horses for share expect to be able to change things as they like and the sharer can lump it. The difference in your example of taking your horse to camp and the OP's story is in the "with prior notice" part of the paragraph. OP is being treated badly by the owners. Both sides should be polite to each other.
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I agree, both sides should try and be generally flexible but we are talking about the bottom line here. Unfortunately the OP is asking 'can the owner get away with this' and the answer is YES. The owner can do whatever she likes. Doesn't mean it is fair or nice but the OP isn't in a position to dictate. She doesn't want the responsibility of ownership but wants a strong say in her rights with the pony - nuh 'uh, these two don't fit!
 
mcnaughty said:
That is the exact reason why OP is correct in being upset.

As for cptrays - calling the OP a liar is not an insult then!
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You demanded that 'we' didn't ever loan, I explained that I never would...

Not believing a poster is one thing,

mcnaughty said:
cptrayes - you are being a cheeky B****! you sound like a seriously nasty piece of work that would stir up the s**t as soon as look at you!
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that is another. Cptrayes is not the button pushing sort, but that doesn't mean others wont be.
 
Nfp20 said:
works out as £75 per week (£25 per day) so we pay approx £325 per month £975 for 3 months give or take a week or two.

So its not cheap but its not expensive either given other loans that I saw available. We also brought hay, feed, replacement buckets, winter rugs, reflocked their saddle but also brought our own fitted tack etc that were not part of the agreement but which I felt was a fair additional contribution. We don't use their grooming kit I raided my old one and replaced a few of my brushes and kit plus a starter grooming kit for my son.

Obviously riding and safety equipment and insurance is our own responsibility.
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Got this far and wished I hadn't sold my sons saint of a lead rein pony last year, you could have had her every day of the week for that amount:eek:
 
Lets bring this thread back to what its about please.

OP has a child with special needs, that routine is everything. She needs a solution.

OP - as a mother of a child with special needs, my advice to you as previously posted is - walk away. Buy your own.

My child is now a lot older than yours, over the years she has had a tough time, what has got her through this is her ponies. She has always been able to rely on them when others have let her down. I understand why you have willingly paid over the odds, lifes tough with a child with SP, and sometimes you just feel you need to do something to make it right. The good news is, you can.
Im not a million miles away from you, if you need any help in your search PM me. Ponies that you need are out there, i have had a few !!
 
Nfp20 said:
I expected to pay a little more given than my son has special needs
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I don't see why anyone should charge more.

Nfp20 said:
and I did have some people who offered their pony at loan decline when they learnt he was Autistic which is fair enough.
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:eek: Frankly I find that disgusting, some people's attitude really saddens me.:(

There is noway you should or expect to pay more. Additionally if the pony is a genuine lead rein there is no reason for anyone to decline due to your sons Autism.

I honestly feel you are paying way over the odds and the owners are totally taking the piss. That said I can't see them changing, so I think your only option is to terminate.

Hell for the amount you are paying you should be easily able to find a yard offering assisted DIY and get your own pony (either buy or full loan).
 
Nfp I read your first post and your first paragraph of your second post.... How very patronising! I and most people on here have an absolute and full understanding of contract law, we also have an understanding of the real world and awkward people that aren't worth bothering with. My share agreements are always water tight but that doesn't mean that if the sharer wanted to use the horse on my day or vice versa that would be a problem, it wouldn't be, because I choose my sharers well, and if I ever realised that I'd made a mistake (like loaning to someone like you appear to be) you'd have a months notice from me. My contracts always state that at any time a months notice can be given by either party. Honestly, you want to dictate to this level, go purchase your own pony and then you can call the shots.
Clarity is important in any contract and all children have needs, to keep waving the fact that you have a child with autism and arguing that this makes his needs more important is really unfair, In that circumstance I would be doing my utmost to have my child in no way set apart from others.

You also state that you searched for two years to find a good horse, then don't wreck it, if you wish to be so controlling buy your own and loan it out on the days you can't be bothered, but don't dictate to to the owner like this and honestly 'legal action'? My father deals with contract law every day and and says you'll be seen as a joke, as is the sentiment of everyone on her apart from you.

If your not happy, end your contract, what do you hope to achieve if you go down the legal route??! Happy relations?! No, you'll get a big fat end of agreement notice, and then where will your sons routine be? Stop complaining and think yourself lucky that you have part use of a horse it took two yrs to find of get your own! As someone said, you sound like a flipping nightmare
 
Asha said:
Lets bring this thread back to what its about please.

OP has a child with special needs, that routine is everything. She needs a solution.

OP - as a mother of a child with special needs, my advice to you as previously posted is - walk away. Buy your own.

My child is now a lot older than yours, over the years she has had a tough time, what has got her through this is her ponies. She has always been able to rely on them when others have let her down. I understand why you have willingly paid over the odds, lifes tough with a child with SP, and sometimes you just feel you need to do something to make it right. The good news is, you can.
Im not a million miles away from you, if you need any help in your search PM me. Ponies that you need are out there, i have had a few !!
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This is getting silly. This thread isn't about a child with special needs at all. Before any one gets at me for not understanding an autistic child's need for routine - I do work with children with the condition on a daily basis. This thread is about an inflexible owner and an equally inflexible loaner (whether she has been badly treated is another matter entirely). Ergo - the situation doesn't work. The OP needs to find another pony, she has no come back.
 
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OP - This situation isn't working and you will have to walk away...but I have to say that in your situation it may be wise to anyway...I understand the difficulties faced with Autism, to rely on a pony being available is just too unreliable...as you know coming from a horsey background...ponies goe lame, have issues etc etc and its very difficult to explain that to any toddler (believe me I have a 3yo and I work with teenagers with LD).

What about part loaning from an RDA? You can often arrange an official 2 day loan and you may be able to arrange for an alternative pony to be available if in the event that yours is having a problem. The RDA would understand and could phone ahead so that you could start to warn your son of the change.
 
I have to agree with most people, sadly as a sharer you have very little rights but people please understand we can get treated like c***. I have had horses vanish off yards when im due to ride, left other horses to care for as owner didnt turn up, exhausted horses when they have been ridden when im due to ride ( yes i do exspect to be able to ride a horse on days im due to ride not find it an exhausted mess), told to much out yard of horses as owner was busey on multiple occasions. I think we all need to accept things are not always fair. I would personaly look for another share there are nice people out there. I have had many shares some with people from hell and some with people who have supported and helped me and changed my life. Take the good with the bad and hopefully you will find a great pony.
 
Would it not be better to find a good RS and have lessons 3 times a week? You may find that in the future the pony is then available for loan?
This way, you will know your son will be riding when you want, you can request a specific pony each week and you wont be paying for something you dont feel you are getting.

Voila! :D
 
I have 2 sharers for my older mare and I am on side with the OP! They contribute to her costs, we have agreed days...yes we can and sometimes do move days around but I take the view that on the days they have my mare...that is theirs and I would not dream of chopping and changing them. They pay me money and to me that does give them certain rights and I don't understand some of the attitudes on here....guys the way you write about it makes it sound like sharers are second class citizens!! I am very grateful I have mine

But do agree you are paying too much. Why not look at a full loan from an animal rescue like blue cross ? Or similiar? You aren't exactly working the socks of the pony and it sounds like an older pony would be great. As an eg. Our pony grass livery in Surrey is £175 per month, and pony gets hay in the winter, rugs checked daily etc. Shake you are not closer as there is a sec a who might well have fitted your bill. Good luck!
 
op i have pm`d you
i really feel for the op, being the mother of a child with needs i can completley understand why the op is putting her foot down regarding HER days with the pony.
there is nothing worse then having to try an explain to your child that their routine is changing that day as they just do not understand and watching the panic and upset is heart breaking.
The owner of the pony is well aware of the childs condition and should be taking this into account (or taken it into account when the share started).
I would be fuming to be honest and i think some of you that have posted should be ashamed of yourselfs.
 
I owned my horse.

I had a sharer for 90% of the time I had him and I viewed it as they were doing ME a favour and contributing to my horse then I would consult them onany changes and I actually gave THEM prefereance on days etc - as I could do any day.
Yes the owners own that pony, but if they are charging OP for a loan, and giving lessons to other children on that day (and whos to say not charging them) then they are taking the piss big time. It is down right rude really and shows they do not respect the loaners.

Folk may say the OP is a 'nightmare' sharer - - - why? Because she actually fulfils her responsibilities? Because she isn't just a cash cow door mat for the owners??

The owners sound like they jsut wanted someone to care for the pony when they couldn't be arsed to go to the yard, but now it is nice they can go up whenever.

If it was me............I would start looking around for another pony, or even speak to the local riding school and explain your situation. They may be able to accommodate something at a quiet time of the day at the yard and offer a private lesson and some time with a pony.....as I would assume that during the day its quiet even at a riding school.
 
I doubt if any of this will matter by tomorrow.

The OP has posted her location. The horse world is small enough and this forum has a wide enough membership that the owners will have read this by then.

And OP, I think it was more the tone and threat of legal action that wound people up than the story itself.

Worded differently I think you might have got a lot more sympathy.

Perhaps that is one of the problems in dealing with the owners. Trying looking harder at HOW you are communicating with them, not what.
 
I have to say my bit - mostly it agrees with everyone who says that they think the OP is getting an incredibly bad time of it - I can completely see why she is so frustrated.The riding when they had turned up is rude and I admire the OP for not kicking off then - I dont know that Id have been anywhere near so nice about it !!

The thing that has annoyed me quite a lot (on the OPs behalf, obviously!) is that the owners appear to have only just told her that they are intending the pony to go to PC camp with their child....

it wasnt arranged last week - the dates for camp would have been made and announced months ago - it cant have been a suprise to the owners, so they absolutely should have asked if they can use the pony that week IMO !!!

(sorry - but its on a par in my mind with the people who say they cant afford christmas - you know when its happening - its been the same date for 2012 years so its hardly a suprise-plan for it!!) They have had ample time to do the curteous thing and ask if they could have the pony that week, and they have chosen not to.

oh - and I also think thats a lot of money, I really wish you well finding just as nice a pony that your son can play with and love forever OP - good luck :)
 
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I very rarely post on here but I have to say this thread has really got my goat. I am shocked at the majority of replys here that suggest the OP is in the wrong - and completely disgusted by some of the comments directed at her. If you have an agreement in place, money or not, it should be adhered to by both parties and any changes mutually agreed. To just turn up on a sharers agreed day and ride without prior notice is in my opinion downright disrepectful. How many owners are quick to complain if a sharer takes the mick, why is this any different?

OP unfortunately I really think you should re-consider your share, and it will be the owners loss. You sound to me to be a great sharer and if I had a pony suitable would bite your hand off! Best of luck.
 
rockysmum said:
I doubt if any of this will matter by tomorrow. The OP has posted her location.
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It's not her location. She PMd me and told me a slightly unusual connection that she has with Ashbourne, but she chose it so as not to be identified and does not live there. My guess, though, is that if this story is true, then she is the only person in the whole country with a three month contract to hire a pony for 3 days a week for £25 a day paid in advance, to be ridden by a 3 year old autistic boy, and that it will be very easy for the owners of the pony to identify her if they are reading this.

If they are reading this - if what we have been told is correct then I think you are very greedy and not very nice people.
 
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Nfp20 said:
works out as £75 per week (£25 per day) so we pay approx £325 per month £975 for 3 months give or take a week or two.

So its not cheap but its not expensive either given other loans that I saw available. We also brought hay, feed, replacement buckets, winter rugs, reflocked their saddle but also brought our own fitted tack etc that were not part of the agreement but which I felt was a fair additional contribution. We don't use their grooming kit I raided my old one and replaced a few of my brushes and kit plus a starter grooming kit for my son.

Obviously riding and safety equipment and insurance is our own responsibility.
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You're more than welcome to share my pony!!

To snatch the pony out from right under your son's nose when he was obviously ready to ride was downright cruel and I cannot believe that a parent could do such a thing to any child! In my book the more you pay the more 'rights' it buys you and this is the reason why I haven't always accepted money from sharers. I have to agree that legal action will win you nothing more than some money back and a bad rep and if I were you I would say good-bye and either find another share or buy my own.

There must be many ponies available for share, especially if your son only rides during the week. My children's pony does very little and I would be delighted if a reliable, trustworthy person wanted to to pay to ride and love her and we would be more than happy to work round them - good sharers are like hen's teeth and when you find one, they're worth looking after.
 
ribbons said:
Actually I think OP has a very valid point. Owners can't have it all ways. They agreed to give up a specific amount of use of their pony in return for financial and practical benefit. A contract of these terms was agreed and signed by both parties.
If their requirements change that's tough. They can discuss alterations with their part loaner but must accept that this may not be possible.
If people said what they meant, and meant what they said, and stuck to their word, never mind a contract I think the world would be a better place.
Years ago our local riding school had part loans on many of the ponies. You had you day or days agreed and that was that. Any changes could be mutually agreed but otherwise were rigid.
If a show or fun ride fell on your day that was great, if not, so be it.
I personally think these owners should either care and pay for their pony entirely, or show more respect for the contract they signed with OP. Can't have their cake and eat it.
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^ This

Can't believe most of the comments I have read so far (up to page 6 and got madder and madder :mad:) in response to this thread. Are you all serious???? I think you would all be the part loaners / sharers from hell if this is your attitude (thinking that it is perfectly acceptable to turn up on your 'non' days and expect to take pony out. Yes it might be your pony but you have relinquished your rights to another person for x no. days or whatever in return for a monetary contribution).

What the hell is the point of having a contract for a part loan, stating days you are solely responsible for care of said pony if the owner just chooses to come and use pony on those days?

Agree that legal action is somewhat over the top but understand the OPs frustration.

An owner can't have it both ways. Either agree a flexible part loan agreement from the off or don't part loan your pony at all.

Also point taken that we only have one side of the story but even so, this is a good debating point for anyone in a similar situation.
 
I have sat and read through most of this thread... I can not believe you are paying £75 a week (£25 a DAY) to loan a pony.... i am finding it difficult to find a sharer for a pony of mine for less than you are paying a DAY for a week..... i allow sharers up 4 days a week too... BUT we are felexible and expect our sharers to be flexible too...
I must add that part livery in my area is almost cheaper than what you pay, so you could keep one, only come up 3 days a week and have your very own pony...

I think you should definately walk away from this one, and learn from it... they have seen you coming, and to get you to pay 3 months in advace.... that is awful. I cant believe they would do anything to upset you...

IMO i would buy your own pony (an old riding school who could do with a quieter life - you could buy it for half the price you pay a month), put it on part livery - so you only need ot go up on agreed days... your livery owner will look after your pony when you are not around, you can get a sharer for the other days you dont have time so the pony stays fit. and you will still save yourself a fortune.

What an awful situation, but more fool you for getting into it. I do feel sorry for you and hope it turns out well.
 
OFG said:
^ I think you would all be the part loaners / sharers from hell if this is your attitude .
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Actually I'm not, a statement I'm sure an ex sharer of mine who comes on here would agree with.

Mind you I have never taken any money from sharers. I would also happily let them ride one of the others if they turned up and the one they ride was unavailable for whatever reason ( not that they would be likely to want to).

However they were flexible, helped me out, I like to think we are friends.

Except for one, who sounded a lot like the OP, and it annoyed the hell out of me. Mind you I wasn't charging anything never mind £75 a week.
 
black_horse said:
Why should they ask you? Its their pony, they do not need the permission and you are sharing, not loaning.



TBH you have insulted members of this forum but belittling them, and stating that you are supprised they do not understand simple logic, we do...you dont.



My brother has autism and downs, trust me, he has had to learn to cope with a lack of routine...otherwise as they get older it becomes harder to care for them. IMHO creating an artifical environment where everything can be controled so stricting is not benefiting the child and allowing him to learn a copeing mechanism. This is my opinion based on my first hand knowledge of my brother and is not a representation on how i think you are raising your son.
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Completely agree with this, have experience of autism and don't hold with creating a totally controlled environment. Learning to cope with disappointment is a lesson we all have to learn, and children with autism are no different in that respect. It's reasonably easy to deal with a 3 yr olds meltdown, try it when they're 14 and as big as you! We have a duty to our children to prepare them for life and coping and behaving in an appropriate way is something that we all have to learn, it's just more difficult for children with autism.
 
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