shortstuff99
Well-Known Member
There is a reason Gio was sold and it wasn't especially for the money.....
Lottie and Everdale latest test wins, God help us rewarding this disgrace.
- Thread starter angel7
- Start date
blitznbobs
Well-Known Member
I think the money and some other reasons that won’t be gone into here is the reason she took him to the olympics
abb123
Well-Known Member
Has anyone noticed how quiet dressage riders have been on social media? People who would normally post a lot have been silent. It's very strange!
Maddie Moo
Well-Known Member
This horse won today in Neumünsterm I’m not familiar with the rider or the horse.
I found the forelegs very distracting, over exaggerated movement and during the passage style steps, the horse was holding the leg up and it was dangling almost for half a beat extra, I’m not really sure how else to explain it but it just looked very strange to me.
I found the forelegs very distracting, over exaggerated movement and during the passage style steps, the horse was holding the leg up and it was dangling almost for half a beat extra, I’m not really sure how else to explain it but it just looked very strange to me.
eahotson
Well-Known Member
You are right.It does look odd.
SEL
Well-Known Member
Very spidery legs!
I know a lot of them are hyper mobile but I wonder if this one is more extreme.
CanteringCarrot
Well-Known Member
I wonder if they "have to" look like this for entertainment value and to get interest in the sport 
Crazy_cat_lady
Well-Known Member
Oh that's really ghastly especially in the passage/piaffe, almost like the leg is dislocating. it almost looks broken when dangling there. Urgh
Wonder what his long term soundness prospects are....
Wonder what his long term soundness prospects are....
angel7
Well-Known Member
How is this horse sound in the back legs never mind the dangling front ones??
Think the bunges have been used with this one with that odd snapping action.
Dreadful
Think the bunges have been used with this one with that odd snapping action.
Dreadful
little_critter
Well-Known Member
I couldn’t take my eyes off the hooves, it looks like he’s wearing platforms!
maybe I’m just used to looking at my horses crappy flat feet.
maybe I’m just used to looking at my horses crappy flat feet.
NinjaPony
Well-Known Member
Sorry but I’m yet to see a Dutch rider/horse combo that looks relaxed and correct. It feels like they are way behind the curve as a nation, hanging onto outdated and disproven training methods that results in extreme tension and hyper mobility.
Equi
Well-Known Member
They almost verge on the big lick
myheartinahoofbeat
Well-Known Member
. Very odd movement. Up and backwards kind of front leg action in the piaffe. The off foreleg seems to get higher than the near.Why don’t they use Hackney horses in dressage. They have that kind of movement 
Caol Ila
Well-Known Member
The hind end never matches the front. Looks disconnected to me because the knee action is super extravagant and the hock action is a bit meh.
Their music sucks. Why does everyone use terrible music?
However, the horse was actually sitting in the piaffe.
Their music sucks. Why does everyone use terrible music?
However, the horse was actually sitting in the piaffe.
shortstuff99
Well-Known Member
There was an interesting discussion I came across earlier about whether WFFS is contributing to this very massive (but slightly strange) action in modern dressage horses. Everdale is a carrier, so is Apache, Totilas etc.
Caol Ila
Well-Known Member
What is WFFS?
Goldie's mum
Well-Known Member
SEL
Well-Known Member
That's interesting - so the possibility that one copy of the gene leads to a certain level of hyper mobility?
SEL
Well-Known Member
A connective tissue disorder which is fatal if a foal gets two copies of the gene. It's one of the animal genetics tests but naive me assumed people would want to breed it out.
shortstuff99
Well-Known Member
Yes, as all the breeders say (obviously) that one copy is fine etc but the carriers of it do show this very extravagant, over action.
Ambers Echo
Still wittering on
Then it should be considered a significant conformational fault and heavily marked down.
No stallion carrying the gene should be bred from either. So certainly shouldn’t be graded.
People are bonkers rewarding genetic abnormalities. Like in some dog breeds. What’s wrong with us!
No stallion carrying the gene should be bred from either. So certainly shouldn’t be graded.
People are bonkers rewarding genetic abnormalities. Like in some dog breeds. What’s wrong with us!
shortstuff99
Well-Known Member
Here is a good article on it, naming lots of top sport stallions as carriers (and attempts to sweep it away)
shortstuff99
Well-Known Member
And just to point out, Indian Rock who just won the world cup qualifier and video above is also a positive carrier of WFFS....
Ambers Echo
Still wittering on
That article is basically just saying stallions carring the gene should not be paired witn mares carrying the gene - but should still be used as breeding stallions because of their 'quality'. So nothing about the fact that it can't be a coincidence that a rare defect is found in SO MANY top stallions - because hypermobility is rewarded not punished. It all comes back to the dire state of dressage judging. There needs to be root and branch reform of all of it. What is desirable in terms of movement, re-focus on harmony and relaxation, penalities for any tension. If that hypermobile movement was marked down for the defect it actually is, then those horses would not be bred from, as they would be seen as conformationally very flawed.
palo1
Well-Known Member
That is...quite disgusting. fgs, it is narcissistic and somehow a bit debauched.
ihatework
Well-Known Member
I’m just going to pull this up for clarification of what you are saying here, because the way I read it you are saying that one copy of the gene causes hypermobility.
As far as I’m aware, there is no evidence to support this and given you work in a clinical field I’m sure you understand the significance of such a statement.
Now there is a hypothesis that it might have some influence (in addition to plenty of other things!) on the hypermobility. It is a valid and interesting hypothesis that should be high in the funding for research list. But it is not a statement of fact.
Personally, in the interim I’d be very supportive of horses with one copy, bred from X date on, not being eligible to go into breeding registers. This would then naturally over time breed out the gene.
But I’d be a little wary of completely excluding good sound performance Sporthorses proving their worth from the entire gene pool just yet.
This isn’t just a dressage horse thing. It’s sj and eventing too.
palo1
Well-Known Member
This! BUT, if there is a sense that a genetic defect which can actually have quite devastating effects, is 'useful' in creating or enhancing the extraordinary movement of some sport horses; without really understanding the clinical impact of the 1copy of the gene, that seems massively irresponsible and very, very distasteful imo. There is a wider problem of soundness and longevity in sport horses generally so using the potential of a genetic blip, or even just believing that it's useful, is pretty revolting to me.
splashgirl45
Lurcher lover
I didn’t think that video was as bad as everyone said, his test look more harmonious than many that are out there at the moment, if his front hadn’t been scrunched up it would have been better but I still don’t like the over extravagant front legs. His piaffe was more correct than many as well. I can see why he got high marks but don’t necessarily agree with them. I loved the commentator mentioning that he might be a bit behind the vertical sometimes, he was BTV the whole time but the movements etc looked correct mostly so I would have docked him a mark for each movement for being short in front and mouth opening
NinjaPony
Well-Known Member
What is the point of having these breeding programmes for ‘elite’ horses and interfering to create the ideal dressage horse if we are going to knowingly breed from horses with genetic defects and allow them to continue to populate the gene pool? Sorry it’s just madness and actually quite despicable.
cornbrodolly
Well-Known Member
To breed in genetic defects makes my blood boil! To stand stallions knowing they carry this gene, and to say , 'well its ok , if the mare doesnt carry it' - what about the next generation , and the one after that. Percentage of carriers grows until it will be a s***show. As breeding is increasingly big business with AI and lots of foals born to these over extravagent WFFS sires, the problem will hit the dressage world very soon.