Lottie frys test…

[scats]

Watching the showjumping in the main arena at Bolesworth last week, I witnessed at least one case of serious loss of temper when a horse refused a jump. It got two pretty big cracks with the whip. I also witnessed a hell of a lot of hauling on mouths with a mass of metal work in, see-sawing to get horses back under control, digging horses with spurs, smacking them several times to get their attention and general rough riding. A lot of which I think would have generated appalling photographs in a ‘moment in time’ shot but all seemingly allowed in the ring.
I’m pretty sure a dressage rider would be pulled up for that behaviour and I’ve yet to see a dressage rider in an international class lose their rag with a horse and wallop it one infront of judge and spectators.
It’s a funny old world.

 

[daffy44]

Ok, I've decided to be brave, I read this post and I wasnt going to comment because i felt fairly sure that once a few people had praised Glamourdale's test the thread would turn into another "dressage is evil" thread, and unfortunately I was right.

It does seem to me that dressage recieves perhaps more than its fair share of negativity on this forum, and I'm relieved that other posters feel the same, so its not just me being over sensitive. I would be very happy to debate the various merits of tests, but I dont feel I could do that on this forum because of the general bias against dressage. For example, whilst I did think some of Glamourdale's test was great, I also saw negatives, and my personal favourite tests of the Championships were Gareth Hughes and Benjamin Werndl, to my eye those two combinations produced exceptional tests, showing softness, harmony and everything that I love about dressage. But until now I didnt dare post that because it all seems to get lumped into the "dressage is bad" corner.

I am a realist, I dont think everyone in dressage is amazing, and I dont think all dressage horses have amazing lives, but I think this is true of all equestrian areas, from riding club to FEI in all disciplines. My personal ethos is that its the individuals responsiblity to never stop learning and always do your best for your horses, and when you know better, you will do better. I am a dressage rider, and I have produced my horses from foal to GP, I have a horse who competes at GP barefoot in a snaffle, but my saddle has a tree, so still a failure! In my dim and distant past I also SJ and evented to a reasonable level, so I try to give my horses variation in their lives, daily turnout all year round, hacking, groundwork, polework etc, I also ride bareback sometimes, in a headcollar sometimes, Liberty sometimes and I've ridden bridless on a couple of them. I dont do any of these things for any clever reason, its more for me that I never want to loose the fun (both for me and the horses) and the love of horses that started me on this never ending journey.

But I think debate is one of the best ways to learn, and to open your mind to different ways of doing things, and I think its sad that a forum like this one with so many people with different opinions cant be a little more tolerant and open minded about things because it really does limit debate. I would certainly never post video of me riding here as I would dread the inevitable dressage is evil conversation and that for a stride my horse may or may not have been BTV. I welcome criticism, but now I limit that criticism to my trainer and people who I know, and therefore whose opinions I trust.

 

[oldie48]

Shortstuff, thanks for posting Gareth's freestyle, it is a lovely test and I love the way he rides and produces his horses. FWIW and I'm no expert but I think I could see why Charlotte scored 2.5% more for the technical marks and 6.6% for the artistic marks however I am not trained to judge! Interestingly there was a 7.5% difference in the highest and the lowest technical score for Gareth whereas the marks for Lottie were more consistent. With regard to the type of saddle used by a rider, Ingrid is 20 years my junior (but no longer young) and i certainly don't ride like her (I wish) but I also favour a saddle with minimal blocks because it is more comfortable for my build.

 

[stangs]

I thought of this further while riding. To straighten a horse is not often a case of asking the opposite of what it offers. Riding a horse that hollows left, in a hollow right position will not necessarily produce an opposite and straightening effect. Often the crookednesd stems from a less obvious place, such as a reluctance to draw the contact forward one way, or a less active hindleg or similar. Changing the bend, for example, doesn't address those things. And if its caused or caused by tightness in the body the horse won't be able to fan out the opposite way anyway. Am I misunderstanding the point of the opposite crookedness?

It’s less straightening, more flexion at times if anything.

(Excuse the long, possibly incoherent post ahead)

PT wise, variation exists in two forms. Generally, you’ll find it in sports where the play isn’t predictable for the athlete, so they need to learn to adapt - to perform a movement from various positions. For example, a libero in volleyball knows how best to dig (return) a ball, but there’ll be thousands of combinations of their position at a certain moment and the ball’s position. They therefore train to be able to dig any ball from any initial position. Somewhat similarly, an eventer needs to be able to take off from dodgy lines, non-perfect ground, sometimes with a rider on their back who’s off-balance as well. Ideally, they’d have perfect striding for every fence, but that’s not going to happen. So, many riders will teach the horse to ‘problem-solve’, such as by lunging over fences, so they can learn to adapt when a fence is presented to them non-perfectly. This adaptation requires different distribution of weight, different extension of different muscles, and so on.

However, when you’re riding a dressage test, you don’t need the horse to problem-solve. After all, one of the marking criteria is ‘submission’. The test is also predictable. You ask for a canter out of an active trot, because, as any dressage trainer will tell you, you can’t ask a horse to perform a movement out of a poor quality gait. Now, sure, you can ask for a canter transition from halt, walk, etc. But that’s a very small number compared to how many variations the aforementioned libero manages a dig in.

This brings us onto the next type of variation. Variation in drilling. For example, I have a dodgy back. I can, however, engage in some weight-lifting, with perfect posture and no pain. However, for a while, this didn’t translate to ‘real life’. I couldn’t lift a water bucket from non-perfect posture. My back was fit enough to perform certain exercises, but it wasn’t functionally useless. It couldn’t cope with any variation. To improve it, I had to build up weight-carrying in all kinds of postures. Or else, I would have always gotten that twinge of pain, if I absent-mindedly yanked the bucket my way, without following the ‘correct’ way of doing things. Aka I needed to learn to pick the bucket up in a ‘crooked’ way, or else my back wouldn't be healthy imo.

This second kind of variation training is what I’m getting at in dressage. I ask a crooked horse for straightness only because, if you’re naturally very asymmetric, then symmetry feels like crookedness. But, with a more established horse who can go straight without constant corrections, then I start asking for ‘wonky’, 'incorrect' movements. For example, if they can do a shoulder-in, then can they do a shoulder in on sloped ground, so there’s more weight to their left than normal? Can I achieve a trot that’s on the forehand with a horse who’s naturally built to do the opposite? Can I get a horse, who naturally falls in on circles, to fall out, and use space as a constraint to keep the diameter mostly constant?

It goes without saying that these experiments are mostly, and certainly initially, done in hand. And they do remain experiments. I don’t drill them, because it’s the repetition of certain postures that makes them bad for the body.)

I’m not doing them to work with tightness in the horse’s body. The goal is literally just trying to create variation, adaptability, to make up for the lack of it in a dressage test (but that you see in other sports). Performing movements from a non-perfect situation. After all, in dressage, the goal is primarily to shift weight to the hind. So my goal is to try explore the shifting of movement in other dimensions, in a multilinear fashion. This means that the horse’s body has to learn how to adjust and adapt to the new postures and to the new constraints created, constraints that will never be found in an actual dressage test. The overall goal is the continued improvement of the horse’s health and functional fitness (like my varying of exercises to improve my back), but also just expanding the repertoire for the hell of it. Creating new movement just to enjoy new movement.

I hope this helps. FWIW, I’ve been experimenting with this, with the horses I currently work with, and I have seen some visible benefits. My finest moment is getting a Hackney to do a downhill, Western pleasure looking trot that any respectable dressage judge would give a 5 at best. But I was chuffed with it, and somehow it got it in the horse’s head that the right answer wasn’t always ‘go higher’, which made canter transitions much easier.

 

[Chianti]

I don't think that dressage is over criticized on the forum in comparison to other types of horse sport. There was a lot of discussion after Badminton regarding the number of falls and whether fences were now too technical or was it that riders were under prepared. Just as the Modern Pentathlon was picked to bits after the Olympics. I've never read unkind comments when people have posted photos of themselves riding. If the OP asks for opinions then they are given. If it's more of a 'look at my gorgeous horse' then the replies are 'yes- isn't he lovely'. I comeback to what I've written before. We need a social license for horse sport to continue. The public has to see horse competition as being fair to the horse. The WHF YouGov opinion poll last year had 20% not in favour of horses being involved in sport at all. 60% that there should be more measures in place to support horse safety in competitions. If we're not more open to how sport is being run then it will disappear. Crispin Parelius Johannessen, freelance photographer, tried to film stewards checking nose bands at GP dressage and they moved where this was taking place so he couldn't film. What does that say? It's hardly being open.

 

[oldie48]

It’s less straightening, more flexion at times if anything.
(Excuse the long, possibly incoherent post ahead)
This second kind of variation training is what I’m getting at in dressage. I ask a crooked horse for straightness only because, if you’re naturally very asymmetric, then symmetry feels like crookedness. But, with a more established horse who can go straight without constant corrections, then I start asking for ‘wonky’, 'incorrect' movements. For example, if they can do a shoulder-in, then can they do a shoulder in on sloped ground, so there’s more weight to their left than normal? Can I achieve a trot that’s on the forehand with a horse who’s naturally built to do the opposite? Can I get a horse, who naturally falls in on circles, to fall out, and use space as a constraint to keep the diameter mostly constant?

TBH I am a little confused by this. I totally agree that in a rider an asymmetry in a rider when corrected, will feel crooked. Been there, felt that and have used that feeling to help correct myself until some muscle memory is available. However, even an established horse can become crooked and I would use a movement to help straighten the horse rather than make it wonky in a different way and I wouldn't ask a straight horse to go wonky just to give it variation in the training. Horses who are built "uphill" can still be on the forehand and a horse that falls in on a circle will often fall out through the shoulder on the other rein, that's surely a training issue rather than an opportunity to add "unwanted" variation. Perhaps I've completely misunderstood you but schooling for me is not about drilling a horse and I feel there are opportunities for lots of variation of movement for the horse both within a pace and between the paces without asking the horse to work in a potentially unbalanced or incorrect way. I believe that horses learn by being rewarded for what is correct so I don't want to ask the horse to make an incorrect movement, that happens often enough anyway. What can make subtle lameness issues so difficult to identify is the horse, being a quadruped, is much more able to adapt their movement than we are naturally. We don't need to ask them to do it, it's a natural ability. Anyway, interesting to read your POV.

 

[ester]

As a functionally wonky person I just pick up buckets the correct way ?

 

[oldie48]

As a functionally wonky person I just pick up buckets the correct way ?

As a functionally wonky OLD person, I now ask someone else to pick up the bucket and give them a functionally wonky grin! There's got to be some compensation in getting older.

 

[ester]

As a functionally wonky OLD person, I now ask someone else to pick up the bucket and give them a functionally wonky grin! There's got to be some compensation in getting older.

???

 

[Caol Ila]

It’s less straightening, more flexion at times if anything.

(Excuse the long, possibly incoherent post ahead)

PT wise, variation exists in two forms. Generally, you’ll find it in sports where the play isn’t predictable for the athlete, so they need to learn to adapt - to perform a movement from various positions. For example, a libero in volleyball knows how best to dig (return) a ball, but there’ll be thousands of combinations of their position at a certain moment and the ball’s position. They therefore train to be able to dig any ball from any initial position. Somewhat similarly, an eventer needs to be able to take off from dodgy lines, non-perfect ground, sometimes with a rider on their back who’s off-balance as well. Ideally, they’d have perfect striding for every fence, but that’s not going to happen. So, many riders will teach the horse to ‘problem-solve’, such as by lunging over fences, so they can learn to adapt when a fence is presented to them non-perfectly. This adaptation requires different distribution of weight, different extension of different muscles, and so on.

However, when you’re riding a dressage test, you don’t need the horse to problem-solve. After all, one of the marking criteria is ‘submission’. The test is also predictable. You ask for a canter out of an active trot, because, as any dressage trainer will tell you, you can’t ask a horse to perform a movement out of a poor quality gait. Now, sure, you can ask for a canter transition from halt, walk, etc. But that’s a very small number compared to how many variations the aforementioned libero manages a dig in.

This brings us onto the next type of variation. Variation in drilling. For example, I have a dodgy back. I can, however, engage in some weight-lifting, with perfect posture and no pain. However, for a while, this didn’t translate to ‘real life’. I couldn’t lift a water bucket from non-perfect posture. My back was fit enough to perform certain exercises, but it wasn’t functionally useless. It couldn’t cope with any variation. To improve it, I had to build up weight-carrying in all kinds of postures. Or else, I would have always gotten that twinge of pain, if I absent-mindedly yanked the bucket my way, without following the ‘correct’ way of doing things. Aka I needed to learn to pick the bucket up in a ‘crooked’ way, or else my back wouldn't be healthy imo.

This second kind of variation training is what I’m getting at in dressage. I ask a crooked horse for straightness only because, if you’re naturally very asymmetric, then symmetry feels like crookedness. But, with a more established horse who can go straight without constant corrections, then I start asking for ‘wonky’, 'incorrect' movements. For example, if they can do a shoulder-in, then can they do a shoulder in on sloped ground, so there’s more weight to their left than normal? Can I achieve a trot that’s on the forehand with a horse who’s naturally built to do the opposite? Can I get a horse, who naturally falls in on circles, to fall out, and use space as a constraint to keep the diameter mostly constant?

It goes without saying that these experiments are mostly, and certainly initially, done in hand. And they do remain experiments. I don’t drill them, because it’s the repetition of certain postures that makes them bad for the body.)

I’m not doing them to work with tightness in the horse’s body. The goal is literally just trying to create variation, adaptability, to make up for the lack of it in a dressage test (but that you see in other sports). Performing movements from a non-perfect situation. After all, in dressage, the goal is primarily to shift weight to the hind. So my goal is to try explore the shifting of movement in other dimensions, in a multilinear fashion. This means that the horse’s body has to learn how to adjust and adapt to the new postures and to the new constraints created, constraints that will never be found in an actual dressage test. The overall goal is the continued improvement of the horse’s health and functional fitness (like my varying of exercises to improve my back), but also just expanding the repertoire for the hell of it. Creating new movement just to enjoy new movement.

I hope this helps. FWIW, I’ve been experimenting with this, with the horses I currently work with, and I have seen some visible benefits. My finest moment is getting a Hackney to do a downhill, Western pleasure looking trot that any respectable dressage judge would give a 5 at best. But I was chuffed with it, and somehow it got it in the horse’s head that the right answer wasn’t always ‘go higher’, which made canter transitions much easier.

Interesting post. I hear what you're saying, but when I am actually doing dressage with my horse, I don't need to encourage him to fall out on any shoulder or be crooked or on the forehand. He does all that perfectly, believe me. He needs to be encouraged to sit on his hind end, go straight, bend correctly, etc. etc. But in the rest of his life that isn't dressage, he gets tons of variation and adaptation and problem solving. We often hack on tough terrain, where he has to do fancy footwork, climb steep hills, navigate bogs, and I try to get out of his way and let him carry himself however the hell he wants when we are on something weird. But for 45 minutes once or twice per week, I want him to use his body the way I tell him. Ish, because I'm not very good, and everything has to be a little bit of a negotiation. My old horse had achieved schoolmaster status before I had to retire her to hacking only, and when we were in the arena, I wanted her straight, off the forehand, etc., but she also spent 3-4 days per week out of the arena or jumping. I was a bit more conservative with my route choices in those last few years (did silly stuff when she was younger), but there were still plenty of hills and footing variety because nothing is flat around here.

Not every dressage rider hacks and cross-trains, and what you're saying is pretty much an argument for why they should. The horse gets to use itself in different ways without creating habits you might not want in the school.

Not doing dressage. The branches were very low.

 

[blitznbobs]

I dont care what anyone else says that extended canter was effing phenomenal…

 

[lme]

I have never had any interest in competing but, until perhaps a year ago when I realised I was no longer enjoying it, I have ridden regularly (1 or 2 times a week) with trainers whose main focus was dressage.

These days I rarely ride in an arena and I find the idea of micro-managing a horse's movement unappealing. It doesn’t mean I can’t appreciate the skill and ability of a top class horse and rider combination, whatever the discipline. Or that I don’t enjoy seeing posts celebrating the progress people who do enjoy competing are making with their horses.

 

[McFluff]

Thank you to the posters for sharing the links to the tests. Was good to watch them.
Gareths test was lovely (in my view), it looked soft and harmonious. But I could see that it had less power than Lottie’s test (it still scored over 80% though, and I do wonder if we lose sight of just how good a score that is).

I did the opposite of ycbm and watched Lottie’s test without sound first (too lazy to get headphones, not an intentional experiment). I thought the extended work was wow, and looked to be the horses comfort zone. However, the collected work seemed a bit staccato to me (caveat that I’m not a trained judge and nowhere near those rider skill levels). However, what was interesting (to me) was that when I watched it with music the collected work made sense. It fitted the music. And this is where my lack of knowledge comes in - would riding to the music make the collected work more staccato to fit? A bit like dancing a tango versus a foxtrot?

I’m not sure I understand the comments that speculate about how each horse is ridden or treated outside of the ring. A dressage test is 4-6 minutes, a snapshot in time. The same way that a showjumping round is 90 seconds. We wouldn’t expect a show jumper to be pinging over high fences every time it is ridden, so why assume that a dressage horse is ridden in full competition frame all the time, or is always ridden in a micromanaged way?

Personally I would like to see more emphasis put on the horse welfare checks - all horse sport would benefit from that. And they should be public, open to be watched by all.

 

[SEL]

Personally I would like to see more emphasis put on the horse welfare checks - all horse sport would benefit from that. And they should be public, open to be watched by all.

I've got a friend who is very, very against using horses in competition and I think unless the various equine sports really do sort out the welfare side at competition time the anti movement will get more traction.

She shared Epona's footage of the Swiss vaulting horse trotting round. If you were at the vets for a lameness work up they'd have stopped you there and then and started the diagnostics. Instead the FEI issued some blurb about it being unlevel because it wanted to canter. It was lame.

 

[McFluff]

I've got a friend who is very, very against using horses in competition and I think unless the various equine sports really do sort out the welfare side at competition time the anti movement will get more traction.

She shared Epona's footage of the Swiss vaulting horse trotting round. If you were at the vets for a lameness work up they'd have stopped you there and then and started the diagnostics. Instead the FEI issued some blurb about it being unlevel because it wanted to canter. It was lame.

Examples like this are really sad. I support horses in competition, I compete myself (albeit very low level) but when you hear of instances like this, it is horrible - the system is failing these horses. Public perception has more influence than ever these days, we all need to demand better.

 

[Goldenstar]

It was lame .
This happens horses go lame at embarrassing moments it happened memorably to Reiner Klimke on Ahleric .
The issues are why there’s no robust simply understood system to deal with it in the moment and why on earth they felt the need to deal with it in this ridiculous way .

 

[ycbm]

I've got a friend who is very, very against using horses in competition and I think unless the various equine sports really do sort out the welfare side at competition time the anti movement will get more traction.

She shared Epona's footage of the Swiss vaulting horse trotting round. If you were at the vets for a lameness work up they'd have stopped you there and then and started the diagnostics. Instead the FEI issued some blurb about it being unlevel because it wanted to canter. It was lame.

Well words fail me. I went and found it. I agree, equestrianism at elite levels is dead unless this sort of thing gets sorted!

https://www.facebook.com/AnimalWelfareWatch/posts/3187728928115429

 

[Cortez]

Christ-On-A-Bike! It was lame at a walk, how could they have let that pass?

 

[daffy44]

Oh my goodness!! Thats appalling it was lame from the first step, why on earth wasnt that stopped immediately???

 

[poiuytrewq]

I know nothing about dressage other than its poncing around a bit more than you do in the show ring and you do it on your own between white boards. That horse's movement looked awfully exagerated. Surely that's not in any way natural?!? Not my cup of tea I am affraid.

I feel the same actually. I didn’t watch the whole thing.

 

[ester]

epona suggests it was checked then came out again later on too.

 

[Rowreach]

Well words fail me. I went and found it. I agree, equestrianism at elite levels is dead unless this sort of thing gets sorted!

https://www.facebook.com/AnimalWelfareWatch/posts/3187728928115429

Did you see the videos of One For Arthur in the ring at the RDS? Doesn't look sound under Jaimie and they've removed the video of Nina Carberry (ride judge) on him because he was lame as a cat and she even looked down at his legs as she was starting off. She then got a hammering in the comments for giving him a bad ride and "he was only bridle lame" - I'd say Nina knows how to ride an ex race horse, but I'm surprised she didn't just get off and hand him back, because she clearly knew he wasn't sound.

 

[Rowreach]

Thats exactly it. People with fat cobs lumbering around on the forehand know they cant jump a 1m60, but they think because they have a bitless bridle and treeless saddle and dont ask anything of their horse, that what they are doing is "kind" and if they wanted to of course they could pop down the centre line doing one time changes, they dont as obviously dressage is cruel with its nasty bits and horses being ridden into a contact.

I'll be honest, I love these sorts of posts. I open them making bets with myself about how long it will be before Karen with Bob the Cob pops up to start dishing out criticism of something she doesn't even understand never mind have any experience of. It never takes long.

I've been quietly fuming about this post since yesterday and I wasn't going to bother responding, but actually I need to say it's one of the most patronising, condescending and deprecating comments I've ever seen on here. Careful up there on that pedestal.

 

[Chianti]

What the powers that be seem to be struggling to appreciate is that with social media these photos are going to go out into the big wide world and be seen. Thirty years ago there were probably the same issues but only the immediate audience saw them. The general public can become aware of mistreatment very quickly - think of the trainer sitting on the dead horse. The FEI making up pathetic excuses or moving stewards so they can't be filmed won't work in the long term.

 

[tristar]

Then if it has to have the stirring music to get the response the rider is hoping for then isn't something wrong with the event? Doesn't it just become something that P T Barnum would put on for the punters? I've started to think that riders shouldn't be marked as the test happens but the judges should watch it in real time and then again on video - using slow motion when necessary. Maybe then they'd notice the face behind the vertical, blue tongues and the signs of stress - especially how the eye looks.

good idea, methinks

 

[tristar]

TBH I am a little confused by this. I totally agree that in a rider an asymmetry in a rider when corrected, will feel crooked. Been there, felt that and have used that feeling to help correct myself until some muscle memory is available. However, even an established horse can become crooked and I would use a movement to help straighten the horse rather than make it wonky in a different way and I wouldn't ask a straight horse to go wonky just to give it variation in the training. Horses who are built "uphill" can still be on the forehand and a horse that falls in on a circle will often fall out through the shoulder on the other rein, that's surely a training issue rather than an opportunity to add "unwanted" variation. Perhaps I've completely misunderstood you but schooling for me is not about drilling a horse and I feel there are opportunities for lots of variation of movement for the horse both within a pace and between the paces without asking the horse to work in a potentially unbalanced or incorrect way. I believe that horses learn by being rewarded for what is correct so I don't want to ask the horse to make an incorrect movement, that happens often enough anyway. What can make subtle lameness issues so difficult to identify is the horse, being a quadruped, is much more able to adapt their movement than we are naturally. We don't need to ask them to do it, it's a natural ability. Anyway, interesting to read your POV.

well said, may i add something?

in the moments i have a straight horse, be a baby or older, i take that opportunity to experiment or ask for something new that will lead to even more straightness

 

[sakura]

I've got a friend who is very, very against using horses in competition and I think unless the various equine sports really do sort out the welfare side at competition time the anti movement will get more traction.

She shared Epona's footage of the Swiss vaulting horse trotting round. If you were at the vets for a lameness work up they'd have stopped you there and then and started the diagnostics. Instead the FEI issued some blurb about it being unlevel because it wanted to canter. It was lame.

this! I wish the FEI would pay more attention before there’s no coming back for high level horse sports

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Did you see the videos of One For Arthur in the ring at the RDS? Doesn't look sound under Jaimie and they've removed the video of Nina Carberry (ride judge) on him because he was lame as a cat and she even looked down at his legs as she was starting off. She then got a hammering in the comments for giving him a bad ride and "he was only bridle lame" - I'd say Nina knows how to ride an ex race horse, but I'm surprised she didn't just get off and hand him back, because she clearly knew he wasn't sound.

I was getting very, very annoyed at the armchair riders on that video. I got the boss to take it down because Nina did not deserve the bashing she was getting. I also agree about the soundness thing which is a whole other kettle of fish.

At the end of the day Arthur found the whole thing way too much to handle. Nona did the best she could with what she had and to me she did nothing wrong. Its hard under such pressure at such a prestigious show to hand a horse back saying it lame whilst it is also being a complete twat. I really felt for her.

 

[tristar]

I haven’t contributed because I know so little about dressage or how to evaluate performances. Though I did think the test looked incredible. But I do agree there is an anti dressage bias in a way that there isn’t really in posts about eventing or showjumping which must be very dispiriting or tedious for those genuinely passionate about dressage. There seems to me to be far more harmony in dressage than show jumping for example where horses can need to be led into the arena to avoid napping and can look to be fighting their riders. And yet you don’t get people saying ‘oh but they should jump round Grand Prix bitless’. It’s just a really odd response to watching discipline A to say ‘but they arent doing discipline B’. No they aren’t. And your point is?

I think the combination of power, grace, harmony and obedience is breathtaking in dressage. And so incredibly hard to do well.

I’m sad people don’t want to share their dressage progress but I get it. I post jumping stills to show progression from tiny jumps to bigger ones when I’m pleased with how Lottie went but I am far more reluctant to show any flatwork even though I’m trying really hard at that and feel pleased with how’s it’s going, because it’s just so easy to pull flatwork apart.

ihave just watched an international SJ comp at the rds

one horse came in jumped the first stopped at the next

it had a black hood on its head and an assortment of ironmongery inc a bit with very long shanks, it just looked like `loads of stuff` round its mouth`

when it stopped he retires and pats the horse, really weird to see at that level, makes you wonder why it got to the stage it ended like that, historically wise

 

[tristar]

Argh sorry I know I said I was out but...

Thats it exactly. It doesn't come from the shank bit. The bit means it's light touch and refined for a well schooled horse.

Correctly schooled reining horses aren't being hauled into a stop as is often misrepresented/interpreted on here

Peace out ✌

i had a stallion western trained many years ago, he could stop purely from my seat, from a gallop with minimal mouth contact