Lottie frys test…

[splashgirl45]

Um, I didn’t say that the entire show is just theatrics?? My point was that the theatrics are what many people are focused on when watching and so the technical stuff is sometimes overlooked.



Sometimes the sofa experts have a point.

the judges mark the technical and the artistic separately so no the technical doesn’t get ignored. I watch lots of dressage and always notice the technical faults even with the music and one of my pet hates is BTV, but there are some forced to be there and some who put themselves there and it is very difficult in a test to get your horse more in front of the vertical. I loved lotties test , it was flamboyant and exciting but the test I preferred was Gareth’s with that lovely mare, I thought that was the best for harmony and loved the sympathetic way he rides, wish he could have been in the medals

 

[milliepops]

Agree, Gareth is a superb rider and his tests always look so harmonious.

 

[splashgirl45]

I thought Gareth’s tests all showed what I think GP dressage should look like. I didn’t like Totilas or the horses that EG has ridden as I think they all go in the flashy front leg way and all overbent and tense..and I worry that CDJ is producing horses with that type of movement but Carl seems to ride in a different way which I prefer but as I never progressed further than novice, who am I to judge ?

 

[stangs]

I don't understand why you'd deliberately work a horse crooked. They have a spare 23 hours a day to nurture their natural crookedness. Aren't you inviting injury by loading a crooked horse with a rider on purpose?

Because you’re not asking for their natural crookedness, you’re asking for the antithesis of their natural crookedness. Asking a horse who tends to lean left to become crooked towards the right, for example, so the body has to adjust for the different posture. Injury only occurs if a 'bad' posture is sustained for a long period of time.

 

[oldie48]

the judges mark the technical and the artistic separately so no the technical doesn’t get ignored. I watch lots of dressage and always notice the technical faults even with the music and one of my pet hates is BTV, but there are some forced to be there and some who put themselves there and it is very difficult in a test to get your horse more in front of the vertical. I loved lotties test , it was flamboyant and exciting but the test I preferred was Gareth’s with that lovely mare, I thought that was the best for harmony and loved the sympathetic way he rides, wish he could have been in the medals

I haven't seen Gareth's test I must seek it out. The horse I ride will put himself BTV, absolutely nothing to do with me (I don't think) and we're not even doing a GP test in a huge atmosphere. I watched Lottie's special test with Matt Frost sharing the commentating and it was really interesting to hear another rider who is looking at the test more from a rider's point of view. He was incredibly supportive etc but not afraid to comment that the poll needed to come up at one point in the test, which was a fair comment.

 

[Rowreach]

the judges mark the technical and the artistic separately so no the technical doesn’t get ignored.

Yes, I do know how it works.

However, a lot of spectators are "blown away" by the theatrical and even in this case, as has been shown already, the judges overlooked some pretty obvious technical issues.

 

[milliepops]

Because you’re not asking for their natural crookedness, you’re asking for the antithesis of their natural crookedness. Asking a horse who tends to lean left to become crooked towards the right, for example, so the body has to adjust for the different posture. Injury only occurs if a 'bad' posture is sustained for a long period of time.

But that's just an exaggeration of straightening work isn't it? I would approach it in this way, because to push the horse that is naturally crooked left, to exaggerated crooked right, might be too much for its body to manage without adopting compensatory movement patterns and so on. The goal is usually to progressively straighten, which by definition means working to equalise the horses movements and suppleness and so on from each side... I can't imagine approaching that from an opposing crookedness frame of mind instead of a straightening-equalising one, which is central to the heart of dressage.

 

[Barton Bounty]

heres a big cat in the pigeons folks, probably because some will not like it, but here goes anyway

we were over at dublin horse show yesterday

15 mins was all it took, gari zoher and his luso stallions, he entered the ring riding one and with several loose, after about 3 seconds tears were rolling down my face and i could not talk, he is on you tube for anyone who cares watch, but it needs to be seen in the flesh for the full effect, believe me

after watching all the others, yes some were nice ect, poncing around all day, everyone said it was worth going just see him, and ireland is not noted for its iberian fan club but there was more people watching than the international show jumping, and the place was in uproar where we were standing

ah what it was to be transported to heaven if only for 15 mins

now i`m not saying it was perfect, but while we are talking about piaffe etc, how about a loose luso performing piaffe om command, with it its head in front of the vertical

take a look on facebook also
nearly every horse that day from ponies upwards were working not bending properly and behind the vertical, so they where never going to show how good they could really be
so when i saw the lusos i nearly fell over from shock!

lady gascoigne who loves the palominos would have been in her element several pal lusos


anyhow just thought i`d mention it as i know how many people love the lusos !

his main ridden one is similar to pedro torres `s oxidado in the flesh

Pokerjoe is my fave one from zoher

 

[splashgirl45]

Yes, I do know how it works.

However, a lot of spectators are "blown away" by the theatrical and even in this case, as has been shown already, the judges overlooked some pretty obvious technical issues.

agreed it wasn’t perfect but most of it was better than the others, I thought Catherine Dufour’s ,sorry can’t remember her married name, test was overmarked, the horses rhythm changed between movements and were very quick in the piaffe , passage and he had mistakes I used to love her riding Cassidy. but wasn’t so impressed with this one.

 

[oldie48]

Yes, I do know how it works.

However, a lot of spectators are "blown away" by the theatrical and even in this case, as has been shown already, the judges overlooked some pretty obvious technical issues.

But dressage, even without the music, is a "show" that is why we plait up, groom, wear the right clothes etc. If we add music, it becomes even more of a show! I think most of the audience at WEG would have a pretty good understanding of the training that underpins a GP test and if they are "blown away" by a freestyle that is exciting and different, surely they are entitled to an opinion? I don't think that it's with the same "ignorance" of an audience at a circus show who secretly hope the lion tamer gets eaten! I do know what I am seeing, I can see the mistakes but that doesn't stop me from being "blown away" by an exceptional performance that although "not perfect" is quite special. IMHO the test thoroughly deserved the very high artistic marks but I accept others will disagree with me. That's fine, it's all pretty subjective. The technical marks might have been on the high side for some movements but they were very consistent across the judges.

 

[milliepops]

But that's just an exaggeration of straightening work isn't it? I would approach it in this way, because to push the horse that is naturally crooked left, to exaggerated crooked right, might be too much for its body to manage without adopting compensatory movement patterns and so on. The goal is usually to progressively straighten, which by definition means working to equalise the horses movements and suppleness and so on from each side... I can't imagine approaching that from an opposing crookedness frame of mind instead of a straightening-equalising one, which is central to the heart of dressage.

I thought of this further while riding. To straighten a horse is not often a case of asking the opposite of what it offers. Riding a horse that hollows left, in a hollow right position will not necessarily produce an opposite and straightening effect. Often the crookednesd stems from a less obvious place, such as a reluctance to draw the contact forward one way, or a less active hindleg or similar. Changing the bend, for example, doesn't address those things. And if its caused or caused by tightness in the body the horse won't be able to fan out the opposite way anyway. Am I misunderstanding the point of the opposite crookedness?

 

[Miss_Millie]

I actually don't want my horse to choose where to hold his head and neck when we're schooling in the arena or even trotting on the trail

I understand what you're saying and I don't disagree at all that it's bad for a horse's back to be hollowed with a rider on board.

But my original point was that I would like to see the difference in carriage if TOP horses and riders, went bridleless for a day. I would expect horses at that level to be self-organised enough to be able to carry the rider without being micro-managed. Surely they have the athleticism and muscle to do this. If a horse at THAT level falls apart when the rider drops the reins, there is something wrong with how they are being trained imo.

I have seen some LOVELY low-level dressage tests where the horse is bridleless. Whilst these tests may not be *technical perfection*, the horse is not over bent and is still working through from behind with a healthy, strong back posture.

I don't hate dressage when it is done with horse health in mind, quite the opposite.

But I also think it's crazy if even the top top horses, would fall apart if if they are not 'held' at all times. Maybe the only difference is that they would not be able to perform the extremely exaggerated movements we see at top level today, without a double bridle on.

 

[ester]

Do they though? I feel like I've seen a fair few videos of people riding GP horses with neck ropes and getting very much the same result as they do with a bridle.

 

[milliepops]

Sorry. What?? When would you like to see our team riders indulge the whim of a random on the Internet by riding without a bridle when they are prepping for a championship. These people have trainers, team responsibilities, sponsors and so on to report to. They should be accountable to them, to the national bodies and to the FEI. When shall we run the bridleless day to satisfy People On The Internet?

I've read it all now ?

Fwiw many of them interchange between snaffle and double. Getting hung up on a piece of equipment is meaningless imo.

 

[TPO]

I understand what you're saying and I don't disagree at all that it's bad for a horse's back to be hollowed with a rider on board.

But my original point was that I would like to see the difference in carriage if TOP horses and riders, went bridleless for a day. I would expect horses at that level to be self-organised enough to be able to carry the rider without being micro-managed. Surely they have the athleticism and muscle to do this. If a horse at THAT level falls apart when the rider drops the reins, there is something wrong with how they are being trained imo.

I have seen some LOVELY low-level dressage tests where the horse is bridleless. Whilst these tests may not be *technical perfection*, the horse is not over bent and is still working through from behind with a healthy, strong back posture.

I don't hate dressage when it is done with horse health in mind, quite the opposite.

But I also think it's crazy if even the top top horses, would fall apart if if they are not 'held' at all times. Maybe the only difference is that they would not be able to perform the extremely exaggerated movements we see at top level today, without a double bridle on.

Not exactly what you were meaning but here's top level reining, sorta the western equivalent of dressage kinda.

It too is often targeted on here by people who don't understand the training or equipment.

Watch past 1min50 and you'll see what difference a bridle makes to a correctly trained horse

 

[TPO]

Sorry. What?? When would you like to see our team riders indulge the whim of a random on the Internet by riding without a bridle when they are prepping for a championship. These people have trainers, team responsibilities, sponsors and so on to report to. They should be accountable to them, to the national bodies and to the FEI. When shall we run the bridleless day to satisfy People On The Internet?

I've read it all now ?

Fwiw many of them interchange between snaffle and double. Getting hung up on a piece of equipment is meaningless imo.

I'm sure they'll have time in between GP tests and doing a bit of trec for variety ??

 

[milliepops]

?‍??‍??‍??‍??‍?

 

[Caol Ila]

Where’s that video of Isabel Werth riding Satchmo bridleless when you need it?

 

[TPO]

Where’s that video of Isabel Werth riding Satchmo bridleless when you need it?

I'm sure I've seen Ingrid riding in a halter/rope etc too

It's irrelevant anyway; the sport of dressage is X so not sure why people want to see unrelated a, b and c.

I mean as if some of the best rider in thr world who have hours of "perfect practice" under their belt wouldn't be able to do any of the random suggestions. They're just a bit focused on the stuff that pays their bills I'd imagine

 

[milliepops]

Yes there's a few riders that have shared stuff like that, but as some kind of selection criteria... its been a long week but even so.

 

[splashgirl45]

Not exactly what you were meaning but here's top level reining, sorta the western equivalent of dressage kinda.

It too is often targeted on here by people who don't understand the training or equipment.

Watch past 1min50 and you'll see what difference a bridle makes to a correctly trained horse

i dont find that inspiring at all. we all like different things and although i have ridden western in my youth it doesnt appeal to me now.

 

[TPO]

i dont find that inspiring at all. we all like different things and although i have ridden western in my youth it doesnt appeal to me now.

???

I never said it was inspiring. The poster wanted to see horses perform competition moves/in competition without bridles. That horse completed the pattern without a bridle.

This place has been going down the drain for a while now but now there can't even be a semi sensible discussion about an equestrian sport without utter nonsense being spouted with zero relevance to the actual sport. I'm out ✌

 

[milliepops]

I do appreciate the responsiveness of those Western horses. They are fabulous... horses are amazing. Guessing the tack rules are quite relaxed ?

 

[Caol Ila]

At the National Western Stock Show in Denver, they used to put on a 'dancing horses' night, which was mostly dressage and reining, but included carriage quadrilles (six carriages of four-in-hand was the most spectacular one), liberty stuff, and Doma Vaquera. Anyway, one of the acts was a Pax de Deux with one of the region's top reiners and one of the region's top GP dressage riders. Halfway through the Pax de Deux, they both removed their bridles and performed all the same moves. But this was in the late 1990s/early 2000s, way before YouTube, so it's like it didn't happen.

 

[ester]

I appreciate reining for what it is and I think the collection he gets from that mare after the fast circles is pretty incredible before you even get to the stops and it does show you don't need the big fancy curb bit to get that sort of responsiveness.

 

[shortstuff99]

This is an international grand prix rider who does tackles

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...G2tLtxHvxbAcAWWXV2LHiGMLRl&id=100006473203741

 

[TPO]

I appreciate reining for what it is and I think the collection he gets from that mare after the fast circles is pretty incredible before you even get to the stops and it does show you don't need the big fancy curb bit to get that sort of responsiveness.

Argh sorry I know I said I was out but...

Thats it exactly. It doesn't come from the shank bit. The bit means it's light touch and refined for a well schooled horse.

Correctly schooled reining horses aren't being hauled into a stop as is often misrepresented/interpreted on here

Peace out ✌

 

[ester]

This is an international grand prix rider who does tackles

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...G2tLtxHvxbAcAWWXV2LHiGMLRl&id=100006473203741

now we're including rugby too lol?!

 

[shortstuff99]

now we're including rugby too lol?!

What video does that show you? Plays the Veiga stud riding one times changes bareback for me?

 

[Roxylola]

This is an international grand prix rider who does tackles

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...G2tLtxHvxbAcAWWXV2LHiGMLRl&id=100006473203741

Bold is mine ss, obviously you meant tackless but it amused me too