Managing lami risk by pulses?

[shortstuff99]

Ive had both too and dont think any of them are easy.

Well horses full stop aren't easy for the wallet or the stress levels ?

 

[shortstuff99]

Yes, hear was i telling myself that Muffin was so much easier, but ten months ago I was at my wits end trying to keep weight on him! I must remember that next spring.

Deza's looking good, no pulses for days now, and I'm pretty certain she's losing weight slowly. We have a much shorter growing season at this height so that helps. Just need to find a muzzle that doesn't rub, and increase the work a bit now she can cope with it.
.

I think once you find the right combination for her then it will be a lot easier. Being able to increase the workload will really make a difference I think too.

 

[DiNozzo]

I've soaked and fed haulage before with no issues. I wouldn't store it after soaking, but it was certainly useful in keeping my horse alive.

Here's another company offering a totally unbiased opinion over what to feed ?
https://www.equilibriumproducts.com/wellbeing/feeding-horses-with-ems-cushings-disease/

This time you can feed soaked haylage!

Given that the Laminitis site suggests feeding Spillers despite it being above (or at least was, I can't be bothered to go check) their recommended starch and sugar... I don't trust lots of their recommendations.
https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/low-grade-laminitis-recovery.783240/page-2#post-14156617

 

[Goldenstar]

Not much to add to the original question but my vet did tell me that soaking haylage is fine.

and mine

 

[sherry90]

Highly recommend the flexible filly grazing muzzle as an alternative to green guard (which rubbed my boy and I worried about teeth!)

 

[angrybird1]

I've always been told you shouldn't soak haylage.

 

[RHM]

I was also told half the time you don’t have to soak it!
I just got mine tested and it was well below 10% sugar as it’s already started the fermentation process. It does have higher digestible energy then hay but it doesn’t have the same impact on insulin as unsoaked hay. I just feed half haylage half chopped straw with no issues with my EMS pony.
The issue with soaking haylage is it begins a secondary fermentation so you are at risk of botulism forming. My vet said if you soak it on a cold day and feed it straight away you are more than likely going to be fine. Obviously don’t leave it boiling in water in the sun!

 

[angrybird1]

I was also told half the time you don’t have to soak it!
I just got mine tested and it was well below 10% sugar as it’s already started the fermentation process. It does have higher digestible energy then hay but it doesn’t have the same impact on insulin as unsoaked hay. I just feed half haylage half chopped straw with no issues with my EMS pony.
The issue with soaking haylage is it begins a secondary fermentation so you are at risk of botulism forming. My vet said if you soak it on a cold day and feed it straight away you are more than likely going to be fine. Obviously don’t leave it boiling in water in the sun!

Yes, more than likely fine. Until it isnt!

 

[RHM]

Yes, more than likely fine. Until it isnt!

Yeah that’s why I don’t do it, I’m enough of a hypochondriac without adding that to the mix ?

 

[angrybird1]

Also, if it's so much lower in sugar than hay why soak it?

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Hm. I've never soaked haylage, but then again I never had a reason to. Most people at the yard are convinced haylage is always higher in sugar than hay. But that is not the case! If I had a real concern, I'd have my forage tested.

I'd personally deal with a good doer any day. I used to have to put so much feed and forage into my big Warmblood. And my TB when he was eventing. Many yards are skimp on hay and usually offer overgrazed fields. So it's a nightmare with the horse that needs more. I stressed so much about feeding these animals. I don't stress nearly as much with my good doer. And fortunately I am able to ride and exercise him.

When you have them at home, that gives you more control too.

And, FWIW, I'm better at killing grass/not getting it to grow than I am at making it grow. ?

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I forgot if I mentioned this, I used to feed MagOx to help with fatty pockets.

 

[windand rain]

I still cannot get my head round how feeding unsoaked hay is better than feeding very short grass that takes the horses hours to accumulate a kilo and they have to move to find it. Grass is 95% water hay is 85% nutrients so I must be simple but I just dont get it why it is better to have hay than short grass. I appreciate it is more sugary when short but the volume found is tiny compared to standing at a hay net so no moving either. Even soaking it can only reduce sugar levels other nutients stay and we all know that the body is a great converter of any nutrient source to the things it needs or perceives to need

 

[Not_so_brave_anymore]

My general motto is "good enough is good enough". I mean, ideally all EMS prone horses would be working hard for several hours a day, and then turned out on a dusty hillside to search for a few scorched blades of grass. But you can only do what you can do! Half an hour hillwork will certainly make a difference. If you've got her pulses down using your regime, then you're obviously moving in the right direction. A wet autumn grass flush might be tricky (to be honest - we've had such a wet summer, my grass has been growing like crazy for weeks already) but winter will be your friend!

 

[ycbm]

I forgot if I mentioned this, I used to feed MagOx to help with fatty pockets.

My horses are permanently on it. Thankfully she has no fat pockets.
.

 

[ycbm]

I still cannot get my head round how feeding unsoaked hay is better than feeding very short grass that takes the horses hours to accumulate a kilo and they have to move to find it. Grass is 95% water hay is 85% nutrients so I must be simple but I just dont get it why it is better to have hay than short grass. I appreciate it is more sugary when short but the volume found is tiny compared to standing at a hay net so no moving either. Even soaking it can only reduce sugar levels other nutients stay and we all know that the body is a great converter of any nutrient source to the things it needs or perceives to need

I absolutely agree. I would like to know the logic behind it, of there is any!
.

 

[ycbm]

Also, if it's so much lower in sugar than hay why soak it?

Blanket statements about the sugar content of hay and haylage make no sense. How much sugar it has in it depends on what grass went into it and when. For any one field of grass, it will be slightly lower in sugar if made into haylage rather than hay. But you can't tell what hay or haylage is lowest in sugar without it being tested.

 

[ycbm]

so, in summary, what I think we have consensus in is:

Her pulses were high and her feet had inflammation.
Her new regime has removed the pulses to the extent that I can't find them at all, and probably removed any current danger of laminitis.
It is not essential to get her weight down right now, over winter will do.

I am about to buy the new muzzle with the adjustable hole, and I think it may be feasible to ration her haylage over the winter nights with it. If so, the two horses can live together. And since she has already become the most delightful horse to hack out on , I really hope that works out.

Thanks everyone!
.

 

[Gloi]

since she has already become the most delightful horse to hack out on , I really hope that works out.

Thanks everyone!
.

Trundling up the massive hill above the yard on a regular basis is the best way I've found of managing my beast's waistline. I should do the same myself.

 

[ycbm]

Trundling up the massive hill above the yard on a regular basis is the best way I've found of managing my beast's waistline. I should do the same myself.

She can't leave the yard without either going out up 1 in 6 or coming home up a 1 in 5 ? The terrain is the greatest bonus here.

 

[GoldenWillow]

Bit late to the party but I've had two vets, one extremely experienced and practical, tell me that it's ok to soak haylage for a short while but I'll admit I haven't actually done it.

Also, if it's so much lower in sugar than hay why soak it?

Always happy to learn but I've always thought, according to farmer friends, that it's the type of grass and time of year that it's cut that affects the feed value and sugars in forage.

 

[meleeka]

I still cannot get my head round how feeding unsoaked hay is better than feeding very short grass that takes the horses hours to accumulate a kilo and they have to move to find it. Grass is 95% water hay is 85% nutrients so I must be simple but I just dont get it why it is better to have hay than short grass. I appreciate it is more sugary when short but the volume found is tiny compared to standing at a hay net so no moving either. Even soaking it can only reduce sugar levels other nutients stay and we all know that the body is a great converter of any nutrient source to the things it needs or perceives to need

I think it’s unlikely that horses are turned out in such bare paddocks that they take hours to accumulate a kilo. Most horses are on paddocks where it’s very easy to eat a kilo of grass. My grass is bare on my track and mine are supplemented with hay because they will lose too much weight if not. They are usually browsing something when I arrive, but it doesn’t look like there’s anything there. A kilo of hay has lower sugar than a kilo of grass I believe.

 

[windand rain]

Mine are turned out no hay on lawn length grass. I measured roughly how much grass they got in a mouthful it was less than 1 grm at a time they graze for about 20 of 24 hours on a green track and do between 4 and 6 poos in that time they lose weight I had the little fatty in a dirt pen she had 3.5kgs of soaked hay did 15-20 poos in 24 hours so I guess that the hay was contibuting far more She hardly lost a lb and in fact according to the weight tape she gained significantly as she also had restricted movement too. 3.5kgs is 1.5% of her ideal weight
According to cattle stats hay contains more than 6 times the amount of sugar than grass per 100kgs

 

[tristar]

who knows what sugar is in hay or haylage without testing