nativetyponies
Well-Known Member
FUGLY is just that...brilliant and poignant articles
i would love to meet "fugly" TBH..I'm sure we'd have alot in common
meat man
- Thread starter vixann
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FUGLY is just that...brilliant and poignant articles
i would love to meet "fugly" TBH..I'm sure we'd have alot in common
SusannaF
Well-Known Member
To clarify, as my earlier comments are way back in the thread, I'm not anti-slaughter. I have been studying the history of horse meat and horse welfare campaigns on and off for a while though, and there's been a palpable shift.
Ada Cole used money donated for horse welfare to build a humane abbatoir so that fewer horses would have to travel and suffer in poorly regulated continental slaughter house. Imagine if the ILPH did the same now – that's the organisation she founded? Their donations would plummet.
People don't want to deal with the nitty gritty. They also want to see horses as more special than other livestock.
I love horses, but I'm also far from being a vegan, so I think I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't support horse slaughter.
If Fugly changed her mind and said she thought new abbatoirs should be opened up in the USA, she would be pilloried. Pro-slaughter people would be ripped to shreds in the comments of her blog if she left them open.
Ada Cole used money donated for horse welfare to build a humane abbatoir so that fewer horses would have to travel and suffer in poorly regulated continental slaughter house. Imagine if the ILPH did the same now – that's the organisation she founded? Their donations would plummet.
People don't want to deal with the nitty gritty. They also want to see horses as more special than other livestock.
I love horses, but I'm also far from being a vegan, so I think I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't support horse slaughter.
If Fugly changed her mind and said she thought new abbatoirs should be opened up in the USA, she would be pilloried. Pro-slaughter people would be ripped to shreds in the comments of her blog if she left them open.
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Enfys
Well-Known Member
HappyHorses:)
Well-Known Member
I have found this to be a most informative thread, I always knew of the existance of potters and turners but that was about it, I had no idea where they were or how horses were slaughtered.
In theory I see no difference in a horse, cow, sheep or pig being slaughtered, they are all animals at the end of the day.
But there is one significant difference, to most horses are much loved pets, and not a commercial commodity, hence they are viewed differently to cattle for example.
With cattle, they were bred and raised with the intention of slaughter always, so the emotional attachment isn't there.
I think this is where difference of opinion often lies with some, those who love their horses as just pets probably wouldn't use an abbatoir, but those who are maybe involved commercially with horses, or have the view that horses are working animals would, or just those that think well death is death no matter what.
I find some opinions on both sides rather insulting, ie. those that think slaughter in this way is wrong must be a fluffy bunny and those that have no issue with it have no interest in the horse, and are bad people etc.
Lack of understanding on both sides I think.
One other point I would like to make is those that favour abbatoirs are of course going to have no issues with the method of handling of killing, but that doens't mean others should and will find it acceptable.
I have no issue with anyone who has their horse pts regardless of method if the horse is dangerous, or if a horse can no longer be afforded and no alternative home can be found, or even if injured and no longer workable and the person wishes to have a working horse, but I do feel some come across as having so little regard for a horses life, thats its no big deal to kill a horse.
These animals serve humans in whatever capacity we choose and in some cases do so with little complaint for years, and I do honesty feel that some dump them at abbatoirs like I dump my mouldy loaf in the kitchen bin, this is the only part that really gets me, some so clearly have no regard for life ie. no money in that one, slaughter house.
So basically I think anyone who uses potters and turners on a regular basis is no horse lover, but someone who sees horses as commercial commodity, ie most £ dead or alive!
Nothing necessarily wrong with this, but frequently these people will also claim to love horses, I'm sorry but the two dont go hand in hand
^^ Very well put ^^
I do think that when posting on such a sensitive subject, some members could have used a little more tact.
nativetyponies
Well-Known Member
Potters is fully supported/approved by the WHW..(ILPH)
Tinseltoes
Well-Known Member
I saw part of the video and turned it off,TOO UPSETTING.
When its time for my two to go,they will be injected by the vet,then cremated.
SusannaF
Well-Known Member
Good! But they didn't build it and run it, which is my point
If they ran a fundraising drive to build an abbatoir, they would be attacked by many of their supporters.
AmyMay
Situation normal
I really, really agree with you Susanna. Really well put.
Maesfen
Extremely Old Nag!
Humane slaughter seem to be emotive words to a lot of you but it's no different from euthanize except that euthanize sounds prettier to some. End product is death of the horse whichever way you look at it.
AmyMay
Situation normal
But I hope you are not basing that decision on what you saw on the Mexico videos - because clearly UK and Mexico are worlds apart in their processes.
MerrySherryRider
Well-Known Member
Just bemused as to why you posted the thread when the information you want is available with one click on google. Appears to suggest some other motivation.
I just love it when posters start a thread stating that anyone who doesn't endorse your opinion should keep quiet. Bit like those ' Jumping my 2 year old over an XC course today..'
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nativetyponies
Well-Known Member
Good! But they didn't build it and run it, which is my point
True...sadly, for the 1000's of unwanted ponies in this country.
i'd build/run one...i wonder if i could get a new business grant from the Govnt?
SusannaF
Well-Known Member
I think it's peoples' disgust at the thought of horses being eaten that's the issue at hand that's why they're anti-slaughter. The idea that a horse could be farmed to be eaten. And the taboos over eating horse meat are long and weird and complicated...
Tinseltoes
Well-Known Member
No I just dont agree with slaughter houses for horses.,then humans eating it,NO WAY.
Thats me tho.
I think injection is the best way for them. I dont like the bullet either.
SusannaF
Well-Known Member
AmyMay
Situation normal
What is your proposal then for dealing with large numbers of animals needing to be destroyed at one time then - if not via a professional slaughter house?
You can't reallasitcally mean that everything should be destroyed with a needle???
nativetyponies
Well-Known Member
Just remember not to put "NP's Pony Pies" on the door
oh ok, maybe that is pushing the boundries, eh?
seriously though, EVERY slaughter animal shouldn't, IMO be more than 50 miles from an Abattoir..that would be in an ideal world...
sadly, consecutive govnt's have closed down far too many outlets and allowed larger buildings farther apart..not good for animal welfare at all.
nativetyponies
Well-Known Member
That just wouldn't be practical with feral/semi-feral animals..
joeanne
Well-Known Member
And the WORST place logistically to have a horse shot is in the stable..
i've known a few that were PTS by injection by the Vet because its what the owner wanted..who are invariably never there!..and it couldn't be picked up by the knackerman til the next day..cue said knackerman having to snap the rigourmorticed joints to get the damn thing out!!!
very dignified for the horse, eh?
and as usual, said owner is nowhere to be seen..because they are "upset" that their ikkle baby has died!!
ETS..sorry cross posted
Absolutely agree. A stable is NOT the place for a horse/pony to be despatched.
I have always arranged the knackerman to come at the same time as the vet (although unless a vets needs to come and sedate, I only use the knackerman and he takes the carcass there and then).
Sharon can I ask....why you see a horse as different to say a cow/sheep when it comes to meat?
I would rather eat a horse that had a decent quality of life, than see the same horse stand in a field and die a slow death from neglect.
In the U.K we dont eat horsemeat as a rule, but in other countries where horsemeat is a part of the diet, they do breed them in much the same way we do cows/sheep and pigs. They are not handled as such, as they are seen as livestock....not pets.
vixann
Well-Known Member
Just bemused as to why you posted the thread when the information you want is available with one click on google. Appears to suggest some other motivation.
I just love it when posters start a thread stating that anyone who doesn't endorse your opinion should keep quiet. Bit like those ' Jumping my 2 year old over an XC course today..'
I think someone has already stated that the number for Potters in unavailable on google? how many ppk have said 'put turner or potters in google - whats your problem?'
err well problem 1 I didnt know what they were called and thought i would use a public forum - yes it is public which is what ppl keep telling me - so i cant use it to find out info because........?
I didnt state anyone who doesn't endorse your opinion should keep quiet - I said no opinions plz - didnt say only opinions that are the same as mine? I didnt even tell u my opinion or y i was doing it - I asked for some bloody details - ill ring 118 next time
SusannaF
Well-Known Member
oh ok, maybe that is pushing the boundries, eh?
seriously though, EVERY slaughter animal shouldn't, IMO be more than 50 miles from an Abattoir..that would be in an ideal world...
sadly, consecutive govnt's have closed down far too many outlets and allowed larger buildings farther apart..not good for animal welfare at all.
I think the same thing's happened in the US, but with even greater distances. Seem to remember a guy in Michael Pollan's Omnivore's Dilemmna who'd built a great, small slaughter house but wasn't allowed to operate the thing because of government restrictions. Meanwhile, I've also read about horrific safety records for piss-poorly paid immigrant workers at the giant, factory-style slaughter houses in America.
spaniel
Well-Known Member
I think it would be very interesting to have some feedback from SP on this thread.
eahotson
Well-Known Member
Well I haven't read ALL of it.However I did read the sneery post about You think having your horse put down in the field, sun shinning etc.Reality different exetera which to me meant that EVEN that is wrong.There is a great deal of dogmatism on both sides of the fence.
eahotson
Well-Known Member
That is a brilliant post.
thatsmygirl
Well-Known Member
When I had my horse put down it was by injection in the stable with the trailer ready to tow her out and away. I stayed holding her and it was so peacefull and that's the way I will always do it. But I left before they winched her out the stable. None off the other 11 horses in the yard cared at all.
Potters are there for a reason, they do a job that needs doing. and if I had a dangerous horse who owed me nothing than that is where I would send him but not my babies.
At our local sales yeserday it was a sorry state with little being sold and bids not even making £50. Some off the weanings looked so poor, sad and terified, none sold. Surely they would be better pts the poor buggers. The breeding off these animals is dam right stupid and that's what needs stopping but for those already here, pts.
I wonder how many people here who are against the use off slaughter houses actually breed some off these little mites? To travel round the sales week after week terified? That's cruel not Potters.
NP good idea, we could do with more places like Potters.
Potters are there for a reason, they do a job that needs doing. and if I had a dangerous horse who owed me nothing than that is where I would send him but not my babies.
At our local sales yeserday it was a sorry state with little being sold and bids not even making £50. Some off the weanings looked so poor, sad and terified, none sold. Surely they would be better pts the poor buggers. The breeding off these animals is dam right stupid and that's what needs stopping but for those already here, pts.
I wonder how many people here who are against the use off slaughter houses actually breed some off these little mites? To travel round the sales week after week terified? That's cruel not Potters.
NP good idea, we could do with more places like Potters.
cronkmooar
Well-Known Member
I had been hoping that this thread would just go away so I didn't get involved but as its still here I just can help myself!
Personally I think some of the comments both on here are inflamatory (deliberate or not I don't know) but they do go against the grain with me - especially when it is being claimed that the thread was started for information purposes only.
Examples are:
"How much are ponies bringing at the moment - 7yr old 14hh stocky native"
This might not technically ask how much per KG but its hardly just asking for the telephone number.
"Yes I will kill the pony" also "And I'm Glad it isn't going to Heaven" and the now infamous "pony pies " comment.
I do not live in the UK and just out of curiosity I put in google "potters abattoir Tauntor - I found the telephone number immediately so the argument that this inforamtion is not available is complete bull!
Whilst I think there has been rudeness from both sides of the argument I think it unkind to berate people for being more sensitive to some situations than yourself.
Do I know where my nearest abattoir is (does not take horses) - yes
Would I take my horse there if the services was available - no
Would I have my horse shot - no
Have I stayed with every horse I have owned whilst PTS - yes
This is how I choose to do things - my choice - nobody elses business.
For those who have experienced terrible deaths by using the injection I am truely sorry that you have experienced this - but I suggest this was the skill of the person administering this rather than the process itself. My vet whom I have had for almost 20 years no longer offers a choice of method - which he did 18 yrs ago when he did my first horse. I presume (and I could be wrong) that this is because he has total confidence in the method.
As I said I have made my choices and a such I do respect the right of everyone else to make theirs - without interferance of others. So whilst I disagree with the OP on her choice, it is exactly that, her choice, nobody elses. Her choice is not cruel, illegal or otherwise so I cannot see any reason for attacking this choice.
However, OP, if you truely just wanted a telephone number and were not looking to cause upset you could have got the telephone number either from google or by your opening post being "does anyone have the telephone number for potters" You must surely have been aware that some forum users would find your initial and subsequent posts upsetting or unneccessary.
Finally, I have read the entire thread as it has developed and it has been informative, especially the personal experiences of those that have visited the place in question. I am pleased to know that horses that are despatched at an abattoir are treated humanely and quickly.
Have I changed my mind about using such a place - no
Personally I think some of the comments both on here are inflamatory (deliberate or not I don't know) but they do go against the grain with me - especially when it is being claimed that the thread was started for information purposes only.
Examples are:
"How much are ponies bringing at the moment - 7yr old 14hh stocky native"
This might not technically ask how much per KG but its hardly just asking for the telephone number.
"Yes I will kill the pony" also "And I'm Glad it isn't going to Heaven" and the now infamous "pony pies " comment.
I do not live in the UK and just out of curiosity I put in google "potters abattoir Tauntor - I found the telephone number immediately so the argument that this inforamtion is not available is complete bull!
Whilst I think there has been rudeness from both sides of the argument I think it unkind to berate people for being more sensitive to some situations than yourself.
Do I know where my nearest abattoir is (does not take horses) - yes
Would I take my horse there if the services was available - no
Would I have my horse shot - no
Have I stayed with every horse I have owned whilst PTS - yes
This is how I choose to do things - my choice - nobody elses business.
For those who have experienced terrible deaths by using the injection I am truely sorry that you have experienced this - but I suggest this was the skill of the person administering this rather than the process itself. My vet whom I have had for almost 20 years no longer offers a choice of method - which he did 18 yrs ago when he did my first horse. I presume (and I could be wrong) that this is because he has total confidence in the method.
As I said I have made my choices and a such I do respect the right of everyone else to make theirs - without interferance of others. So whilst I disagree with the OP on her choice, it is exactly that, her choice, nobody elses. Her choice is not cruel, illegal or otherwise so I cannot see any reason for attacking this choice.
However, OP, if you truely just wanted a telephone number and were not looking to cause upset you could have got the telephone number either from google or by your opening post being "does anyone have the telephone number for potters" You must surely have been aware that some forum users would find your initial and subsequent posts upsetting or unneccessary.
Finally, I have read the entire thread as it has developed and it has been informative, especially the personal experiences of those that have visited the place in question. I am pleased to know that horses that are despatched at an abattoir are treated humanely and quickly.
Have I changed my mind about using such a place - no
nativetyponies
Well-Known Member
I just find it really sad that I've been called cruel and that i'm not a horse lover.
I really can't see the connection.
To put a horse out of it's misery/pain/suffering is surely what horse lovers do?
I really can't see the connection.
To put a horse out of it's misery/pain/suffering is surely what horse lovers do?
Fairynuff
Well-Known Member
such an intelligent and honest reply! It was a pleasure to read it, thankyou.
lochpearl
Well-Known Member
I just find it really sad that I've been called cruel and that i'm not a horse lover.
I really can't see the connection.
To put a horse out of it's misery/pain/suffering is surely what horse lovers do?
Yes that is what we SHOULD do but not what people want to do!!
And the people that matter KNOW you are not cruel and that you do love horses.
eahotson
Well-Known Member
I have a friend who runs a small breeding stud.She does use Potters occasionally, these animals are not pets and I for one have no issue with that.She has no issue with the fact that my horse is a pet and I may want to do things differently.She looks after her animals well.I am sure she would have plenty to say if I wanted to send my horse to the sales, old and lame as 'he might get a new home there!'.
I would suport the ILPH if it wanted to try and get more slaughter houses opened to reduce the travelling and expense and also applaud the fact that there will be business and money generated when, as a country, we need it.
I also think this post was meant to be inflammatory and has succeeded.
I would suport the ILPH if it wanted to try and get more slaughter houses opened to reduce the travelling and expense and also applaud the fact that there will be business and money generated when, as a country, we need it.
I also think this post was meant to be inflammatory and has succeeded.
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