meat man

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cronkmooar said:
I had been hoping that this thread would just go away so I didn't get involved but as its still here I just can help myself!

Personally I think some of the comments both on here are inflamatory (deliberate or not I don't know) but they do go against the grain with me - especially when it is being claimed that the thread was started for information purposes only.

Examples are:

"How much are ponies bringing at the moment - 7yr old 14hh stocky native"

This might not technically ask how much per KG but its hardly just asking for the telephone number.

"Yes I will kill the pony" also "And I'm Glad it isn't going to Heaven" and the now infamous "pony pies " comment.

I do not live in the UK and just out of curiosity I put in google "potters abattoir Tauntor - I found the telephone number immediately so the argument that this inforamtion is not available is complete bull!

Whilst I think there has been rudeness from both sides of the argument I think it unkind to berate people for being more sensitive to some situations than yourself.

Do I know where my nearest abattoir is (does not take horses) - yes
Would I take my horse there if the services was available - no
Would I have my horse shot - no
Have I stayed with every horse I have owned whilst PTS - yes

This is how I choose to do things - my choice - nobody elses business.

For those who have experienced terrible deaths by using the injection I am truely sorry that you have experienced this - but I suggest this was the skill of the person administering this rather than the process itself. My vet whom I have had for almost 20 years no longer offers a choice of method - which he did 18 yrs ago when he did my first horse. I presume (and I could be wrong) that this is because he has total confidence in the method.

As I said I have made my choices and a such I do respect the right of everyone else to make theirs - without interferance of others. So whilst I disagree with the OP on her choice, it is exactly that, her choice, nobody elses. Her choice is not cruel, illegal or otherwise so I cannot see any reason for attacking this choice.

However, OP, if you truely just wanted a telephone number and were not looking to cause upset you could have got the telephone number either from google or by your opening post being "does anyone have the telephone number for potters" You must surely have been aware that some forum users would find your initial and subsequent posts upsetting or unneccessary.

Finally, I have read the entire thread as it has developed and it has been informative, especially the personal experiences of those that have visited the place in question. I am pleased to know that horses that are despatched at an abattoir are treated humanely and quickly.

Have I changed my mind about using such a place - no
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already stated i did not know the name of the place???
 
nativeponies said:
I just find it really sad that I've been called cruel and that i'm not a horse lover.

I really can't see the connection.

To put a horse out of it's misery/pain/suffering is surely what horse lovers do?
:confused:
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This is the thing ain't it, people can't accept death. Iv seen old horses in pain go on and on, for what??????? Their bloody owners not for the sake off the horse. And honestly what I saw yeserday at the sales was horrid. I would rather off seen those poor ponies go to Potters than carry on the way they are.
So I'm a horse hater as well.
 
cronkmooar said:
I had been hoping that this thread would just go away so I didn't get involved but as its still here I just can help myself!

Personally I think some of the comments both on here are inflamatory (deliberate or not I don't know) but they do go against the grain with me - especially when it is being claimed that the thread was started for information purposes only.

Examples are:

"How much are ponies bringing at the moment - 7yr old 14hh stocky native"

This might not technically ask how much per KG but its hardly just asking for the telephone number.

"Yes I will kill the pony" also "And I'm Glad it isn't going to Heaven" and the now infamous "pony pies " comment.

I do not live in the UK and just out of curiosity I put in google "potters abattoir Tauntor - I found the telephone number immediately so the argument that this inforamtion is not available is complete bull!

Whilst I think there has been rudeness from both sides of the argument I think it unkind to berate people for being more sensitive to some situations than yourself.

Do I know where my nearest abattoir is (does not take horses) - yes
Would I take my horse there if the services was available - no
Would I have my horse shot - no
Have I stayed with every horse I have owned whilst PTS - yes

This is how I choose to do things - my choice - nobody elses business.

For those who have experienced terrible deaths by using the injection I am truely sorry that you have experienced this - but I suggest this was the skill of the person administering this rather than the process itself. My vet whom I have had for almost 20 years no longer offers a choice of method - which he did 18 yrs ago when he did my first horse. I presume (and I could be wrong) that this is because he has total confidence in the method.

As I said I have made my choices and a such I do respect the right of everyone else to make theirs - without interferance of others. So whilst I disagree with the OP on her choice, it is exactly that, her choice, nobody elses. Her choice is not cruel, illegal or otherwise so I cannot see any reason for attacking this choice.

However, OP, if you truely just wanted a telephone number and were not looking to cause upset you could have got the telephone number either from google or by your opening post being "does anyone have the telephone number for potters" You must surely have been aware that some forum users would find your initial and subsequent posts upsetting or unneccessary.

Finally, I have read the entire thread as it has developed and it has been informative, especially the personal experiences of those that have visited the place in question. I am pleased to know that horses that are despatched at an abattoir are treated humanely and quickly.

Have I changed my mind about using such a place - no
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Very well spoken. I think there has been too much snarkiness and bullying coming from both sides of this sensitive issue. Any real discussion has to include multiple points of view.

Asking for information is fine. Posting in a public forum and stating that you don't want to hear people's opinions on such an emotional subject is probably naive.

There is an abbatoir close to one of the bridlepaths where I live. We do a beautiful loop hack that goes past this abbatoir. The horses do get very edgy, reluctant, and tense when they have to go past it. They seem to know very well what it is and what happens there. The first time I rode past, *I* didn't even know what that building was, so my horse wasn't reacting to my human squeamishness. Even if humans can't smell blood, it doesn't mean that horses can't smell it or sense what goes on there.

Everyone must make the best ethical decision for their horse. I hope the OP's horse meets a humane and dignified end.
 
SusannaF said:
Meanwhile, I've also read about horrific safety records for piss-poorly paid immigrant workers at the giant, factory-style slaughter houses in America.
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Slightly, but only just off topic. Did anyone watch the Countryfile programme when Adam was in the US looking at farming practises. Not good watching at all and I think he came out with a pretty poor impression of Americans and how they want things done in such huge numbers; all of the animals were just numbers and the slot when they were calving onto sand was disgusting. Made me very glad I live where I live and our farmers are so much more compassionate with the animals that give them their livelihood, the same as many horse owners too. We are lucky we have Potters and Turners whether you like the idea or not.

Spare a thought too for the Chinese meals many of you enjoy, where do they some from, how is that reared and killed?
 
brigantia said:
Very well spoken. I think there has been too much snarkiness and bullying coming from both sides of this sensitive issue. Any real discussion has to include multiple points of view.

Asking for information is fine. Posting in a public forum and stating that you don't want to hear people's opinions on such an emotional subject is probably naive.

There is an abbatoir close to one of the bridlepaths where I live. We do a beautiful loop hack that goes past this abbatoir. The horses do get very edgy, reluctant, and tense when they have to go past it. They seem to know very well what it is and what happens there. The first time I rode past, *I* didn't even know what that building was, so my horse wasn't reacting to my human squeamishness. Even if humans can't smell blood, it doesn't mean that horses can't smell it or sense what goes on there.

Everyone must make the best ethical decision for their horse. I hope the OP's horse meets a humane and dignified end.
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So you have just said that it was YOU that made the horse edgy, reluctant and tense, not the fact that the horse knew what was going on in there and could smell the blood.
 
Maesfen said:
Slightly, but only just off topic. Did anyone watch the Countryfile programme when Adam was in the US looking at farming practises. Not good watching at all and I think he came out with a pretty poor impression of Americans and how they want things done in such huge numbers; all of the animals were just numbers and the slot when they were calving onto sand was disgusting. Made me very glad I live where I live and our farmers are so much more compassionate with the animals that give them their livelihood, the same as many horse owners too. We are lucky we have Potters and Turners whether you like the idea or not.

Spare a thought too for the Chinese meals many of you enjoy, where do they some from, how is that reared and killed?
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well said.
 
QR.
I think more notice needs to be taken of an earlier post which stated

"Injection is kinder for the owners,a bullet is kinder for the horse".

A view backed by vets, I might add.
 
Maesfen said:
Slightly, but only just off topic. Did anyone watch the Countryfile programme when Adam was in the US looking at farming practises. Not good watching at all and I think he came out with a pretty poor impression of Americans and how they want things done in such huge numbers; all of the animals were just numbers and the slot when they were calving onto sand was disgusting. Made me very glad I live where I live and our farmers are so much more compassionate with the animals that give them their livelihood, the same as many horse owners too. We are lucky we have Potters and Turners whether you like the idea or not.
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Can highly recommend Michael Pollan's Omnivore's Dilemma. It's a long nonfiction book divided into three parts, each of which centres on a meal. The first meal is fastfood, and Pollan then goes back to research and describe the conditions of production for each ingredient. The second meal is organic and small-scale production, and the third is hunted/foraged. More about it here.

I read about the slaughter houses in Eric Schlosser's Fast Food Nation, which is also excellent – horror stories of feedlots and monocultures. Put me off Macdonalds....

I think small-scale and local is the way to go.
 
I accept the risk that some may find this too clinical and possibly graphic......can I ask why the bullet is considered better for the horse. By this I mean in what ways do the physical actions of each method affect the animal involved.

I appreciate that this might turn into pure biology for some and that they may be uncomfortable with it but I am interested, wish to expand my knowledge and not afraid to ask!

So, if someone can talk us/me through the actual process of death by each means Im sure some may find it helpful/useful or interesting.
 
zebedee said:
QR.
I think more notice needs to be taken of an earlier post which stated

"Injection is kinder for the owners,a bullet is kinder for the horse".

A view backed by vets, I might add.
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My vet won't use the bullet he injects. Which I was happy with and it was very quick and she just lied down and went to sleep. She was sadated first.
 
nativeponies said:
I just find it really sad that I've been called cruel and that i'm not a horse lover.

I really can't see the connection.

To put a horse out of it's misery/pain/suffering is surely what horse lovers do?
:confused:
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I think that the vast majority of the people on this forum have more common sense and compassion than to think this of you.

This thread has been incredibly informative and I for one have the utmost respect for you, it sounds as though you have done some wonderful things for many horses over the years.

Anyone who says that they have read both sides to this argument and cannot see the up side to abbatoirs and similar, IMO needs a serious wake up call...
 
vixann said:
already stated i did not know the name of the place???
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OK whilst I still have my polite hat on!

Firstly I find that hard to belive. As stated I don't live in the UK and I know what Potters is and exactly where it is. I am also aware that there are only two such establishments in the UK

Secondly you were given both names on the second or third post and the telephone number shortly afterward so you could have left things at that.

The point of my post is that there are better ways of asking for information and in life in general it is polite to consider other people.

A suggestion for your opening post would be: can anyone provide details of an abattoir that processes horses?

Can you not see that your comments can be upsetting to others? or do you just really not care?
 
:confused: How upsetting is "upsetting"? Brief distaste? Devastation? The real issue is that a horse (which only one person on this thread has actually encountered) with problems is dealt with humanely and responsibly. That horse won't be reading this thread and getting upset. For everyone else, it's easy to just pass over the topic.
 
cronkmooar said:
OK whilst I still have my polite hat on!

Firstly I find that hard to belive. As stated I don't live in the UK and I know what Potters is and exactly where it is. I am also aware that there are only two such establishments in the UK

Secondly you were given both names on the second or third post and the telephone number shortly afterward so you could have left things at that.

The point of my post is that there are better ways of asking for information and in life in general it is polite to consider other people.

A suggestion for your opening post would be: can anyone provide details of an abattoir that processes horses?

Can you not see that your comments can be upsetting to others? or do you just really not care?
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Well good for you if you know the names etc - Do you just think I am lying when i say I didnt???

yes i could have left it at that - so could everyone else - i wasnt the one who dragged this out - maybe you should read again???

sorry i didnt take the time to come up with an alternative title

better ways? what are forums for? yes it might be upsetting - ppl who knew they would be upset had the option of not reading it??
 
And WHY should it be a Taboo subject just because of a few "delicate souls"?

The numbers who have replied saying it's informative far outway the "lala, i'm not listening" types...which, in my book, can only benefit horse welfare as a whole.
 
nativeponies said:
I just find it really sad that I've been called cruel and that i'm not a horse lover.

I really can't see the connection.

To put a horse out of it's misery/pain/suffering is surely what horse lovers do?
:confused:
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Illegitimi non carborundum, NP.

There are those on here who simply do not reside on the same level of practicality & reality that some of the rest of us do.
All we can do (out of kindness) is hope for their sakes that their pretty shiny bubble never bursts on them, because if it does it's going to be one hell of shock to discover that those of us who think along the same lines as you do were right all along.
 
lochpearl said:
Sorry But I disagree with this point, what about the kind people that have seen the scraps at the sale move from sale to sale and be treated terribly, they then buy them up and give them quality of life for a few weeks and then take them to Turners/Potters? This is not for financial gain, many of the ponies are damaged, bad conformation etc, so would not ever become riding ponies and would constantly be shoved from pillar to post or worse - sent to France, Italy etc. The monetary fact in this would only be to then help the next lot of ponies/horses.

I will totally go against the grain here, I am a vegetarian, I do not like the thought of eating any animal, whether it be a pig, horse, cow, dog or chicken. I do not force my beliefs down anyone's throat as this is not my right. All of my friends, family and husband eat meat as does my dog. I have no problem with this, but I ensure any we buy is free range.

This thread has brought up some valuable information and I am sorry to say that no, I have no idea who my local knackerman is or where the closest slaughterhouse is. I know people in my local hunt, should I need it but again this is something that I have never chosen to do.

One horse I had pts went by injection and it was not administered correctly, it was a horrific death and I still have nightmares, he was my soulmate and I had to leave when he was on the ground. The second, I used a proper equine clinic, I actually took him there myself, he knew nothing of the deed and was pts by injection, it was so quick and peaceful and he still had a mouthful of food - he knew nothing and was not stressed at all. The horses at the vet in the stables and in the field next door didn't even look up.

I am fluffy as I have their ashes at home, until I am ready to say goodbye. I also do not have the stomach to have them shot, be it Potters or the Hunt. If I was able to do that I would consider the Hunt or a Slaughterhouse to do the deed as they are doing this job day in, day out and I know it would be the quickest form of despatch. Best for the horse but not the owner.

NP has had a grilling on this post for being helpful and honest, NP is far from a horse hater, she is a wonderful horsewoman and I would ask for her advice before many other people I know. The 3 ponies posted about above are a drop in the ocean, NP has given so many like them a brilliant chance and quality of life. She is also very picky on who she allows to home them, she does this for the love of them!
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I agree with so much of this post (about from the fact I love my meat). I am afraid I did not stay with my old pony when she was shot, but someone I trusted was with her and she is buried at home. She was pts at 34 when her arthritis was beginning to become a problem, I could have kept her for longer but that would have been for me not for her. Previously to that another old pony went to the hunt, he was shot at home by the kennelman as he was in bad way after colicking overnight when no one was there. :( I don't think any of ours will go to Turners, even though they are local, but I know plenty of people who have taken horses there, and all say the horses show no fear or stress. I have however been to Beeston and have seen the fear shown by some of the old and unsound horses sent there by owners who "love" them too much to send them to Turners.
I expect I could be considered slightly fluffy, but I hope I am also realistic and as has been said before I suspect most horses would prefer a trip to Potters or Turners than being passed on from home to home.
 
thatsmygirl said:
My vet won't use the bullet he injects. Which I was happy with and it was very quick and she just lied down and went to sleep. She was sadated first.
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More profit in the injection ;)

So long as you were happy with the service thats fine.

I've had experience of both methods with my own horses over the years. I personally wouldn't have another one injected unless it was already under sedation.
 
amymay said:
But surely only to the uninformed - or those not part of the real world.......
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I am both informed and part of the real world but I don't see the need to cause upset deliberately or if it can be avoided. Thats not being a fluffy bunny as some forum members like to call it - that is manners.

I have no problem with the OP choice but I do think that a bit of thought could be put into the wording of some posts - and not just those of the OP I might add!

Everyone has the right to deceide how to despatch their horse, however there is a certain amount of lighting the touch paper and standing back and watching what happens with this thread.

Again, just out of interest I put in google UK Horse Abattoirs - and guess what, had the names of both within seconds, provided no less by an article in H&H.

This information is easily obtainable without the need for a 50 page bun fight!
 
To be fair... vixann asked the question and didn't post again, even in reply to some pretty harsh posts directed at her, for quite a while. So she DID leave it alone after getting the information she requested.

I'm sorry but I had no idea what Potters was, though I'm American. I do think its a bit niave to assume that others have access to the same knowledge, experience and information as you have. Especially not knowing anything about the OP as a person.

I don't think the topic is inappropriate to a horse forum, and personally didn't find anything OP said offensive, though I can read frustration in some later posts, I can't say I blame her considering some of the very personal attacks made.

On parent forums, people talk about child abuse.

On the ASD forum, they talk about not being able to cope and medicating/giving up their children.

On dog forums they talk about some pretty graphic things, too. The subject matter can't become taboo, lest we all become more and more removed from the realities of horse ownership and pass that on to our children.
 
I don't think it comes down to an argument of injection vs shooting but what matters is the experience of whoever is doing it. If you choose your vet then ask how many horses he has pts and then consider that for a knacker man it's his job, day in day out and think which one is skilled at what they do.
The only horse that I've seen shot by a vet suffered immensely and I would rather wait for a knacker man than call out a vet if faced with a similar emergency.
On the other hand I've seen and held alot of horses for knackermen and all of them had a quick and hopefully painless death.
People need to be realistic, it's part of owning horses that they go first......
 
One issue that certainly does need addressing in this country regarding animal welfare are the vet fees/charges!!!!! Vets totally exploit the British "animal lover" nation and I believe this is responsible for a lot of animal welfare issues. People simply cant afford charges, it ridiculous! If vet treatment was not as expensive as it is I am certain welfare cases in britain would drop dramatically. My mother had her Boxer in hospital for two days, was x-rayed, had tumour removed from spleen, drips etc etc. This was in spain, cost her a total of 300euros!!!!! What would that cost here? Speaks for its self.

A vet recently told us that he encourages his co vets to charge as mcuh as poss on clients. This is appalling.....animal welfare not being considered here at all, animals being put through un-necessary and stressful treatment, not good.

I certainly agree with pts which considers the best for the animals welfare.
 
cronkmooar said:
I am both informed and part of the real world but I don't see the need to cause upset deliberately or if it can be avoided. Thats not being a fluffy bunny as some forum members like to call it - that is manners.

I have no problem with the OP choice but I do think that a bit of thought could be put into the wording of some posts - and not just those of the OP I might add!

Everyone has the right to deceide how to despatch their horse, however there is a certain amount of lighting the touch paper and standing back and watching what happens with this thread.

Again, just out of interest I put in google UK Horse Abattoirs - and guess what, had the names of both within seconds, provided no less by an article in H&H.

This information is easily obtainable without the need for a 50 page bun fight!
Click to expand...

calm your pants everyone - i didnt find on google so i asked on here - sorry for been so thick that i couldnt find it.
 
amymay said:
Ah Polly, like so many you absolutely miss the point, and totally misunderstand the person.

Those who have very strong opinions on abbatoir have formed them through ignorance - not through experience.
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I haven't misunderstood the OP. She wants to slaughter a horse because he could turnout to be vicious mindless killer.

I don't happen to agree with abattoirs and don't eat meat. My doctor tells me I'm healthier than meat eaters as I don't have animal fat clogging up my arteries. The last IQ test I did scored 120. That makes me stupid, does it?
 
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