meat man

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JimMoriarty said:
Yeah, you've already made that point;



So, no harm in my repeating my reply...

Well, perhaps 'some on here' should keep out of the thread then...


I've found this thread (and that question) of great interest, and the question perfectly valid. Some of the responses, alas, have been highly emotive, sensational, and illogical..
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Jim - you have made your point and I have made my point, but at no point have I called your posts emotive, sensational and illogical. I also have as much right as you to read and post on threads here. We all have opinions and we are all entitled to post as we see fit so long as it is not abusive to other users.

I believe that shooting a horse is the best way to end it's life and if you own the animal then you should be able to choose how, where and when that happens. However, I do not believe that this is the place to discuss some the issues raised in this post. That is my opinion - I am not "dissing" in any way your views but I have a right to state my beliefs. End of.
 
martlin said:
Not really, I just wanted to know, so I asked :)
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I know! I probably should have finished that by saying what a ridiculous nonsense it is that anyone is supposed to be a troll in this. It was just a question after all. Not even an emotive one which the OP asked.
 
PollyP99 said:
Whilst not wishing to agree with Over2You's outburst re 'Nativeponies' I would have to say that having only been a member on here for a few weeks I have yet to read a post from NP that is not pro-killing in some form or just downright rude.

I see it that 'she/he' is intentionally trying to goad people into entering an argument, best not to rise to it.

ps, I agree that death comes to us all but who would willingly watch their horse hanging on a hook.....a step too far NP.
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Maybe NP lives in the real world and not fluffy bunny land!!
 
vixann said:
This wont be a popular post and I don't want peoples opinions please if you are going to say the usual rubbish
Does anyone know how much ponies are bringing at the moment?
7yo 14hh stocky native type?
Thanks
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OK so kilos were not mentioned, splitting hairs?
 
martlin said:
How many times does the OP have to tell you? She didn't ask about price per kilo, I did.
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I think some people don't want to hear it.........!

I think this thread has been really informative and, in addition to the original question, has thrown up lots of 'food for thought' for anyone that may have to consider PTS in the future. I always thought LI would be the 'nicest' way to go (although would go for shoot/CB for speed) but is now something I would not consider, I couldn't imagine dealing with one of my babies not being killed outright instantly. Personally I would prefer the hunt but as we are no longer close to one then would expect it to be knacker man, however, if we were close enough I would definitely go to Potters providing I could be with them until the deed was done. It has been an emotional thread, probably more so for Vixann, who has had to put up with many personal comments and judgements made by people who don't know the facts behind her decision, but I think, in fairness, that had to be expected with this topic.
 
If you all wanna get technical, the OP did ask about how much money you would get for a pony.

not a big deal and I do still agree with the un-fluffies that there are far worse fates than death, and far worse ways to go than a well-run slaughterhouse but just wanted to be pedantic....

:D
 
the_sophies said:
Straffan, IRE. My uncle used to send his old hunters. Maybe the process is different in Britain, or things may have changed. Either way, I wouldn't send one of mine.
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I think that has closed now, hasn't it? Though for reasons other than welfare.

I used to live nearby for a while, what a wretched place. He had thousands of horses in and around the area. Things lying dead in fields during the winter, untreated strangles and general neglect, reselling those sent in trust as well a host of other underhand and unpleasant goings on. Certainly seeing that would put you off and I can't blame you.

For me, seeing what happened there compared to footage of Stilman's is a world away. At least there there is consideration of the horse or pony. There is some question of how the injured chestnut mare ended up in that state and of course there will be the nervous that play up. They are handled by competent personnelle. For the most it seems to be standing there, then already dead and unaware without fear, suffering or duress.
 
elsazzo said:
absolutely.......OP is clearly either trolling or has come to the wrong place
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Once upon a time, this forum used to be a great place to ask for proper decent advice from experienced people living in the real world. A thread like this would have provided an informed discussion about the best ways of ending your animals life when the time comes, who to go to, where, how etc.

Now it has been taken over by the fluffy bunny brigade, you have to sift through the hysteria to get to decent answers.

A REAL horse lover, will plan their horses death from the moment they buy it.
Once an animal is dead, then it is dead. It doesnt matter if it is used for posh French food or cheap dog food...its dead......
 
I cant imagine having my baby PTS but I think it is a difficult decision for anybody. I do think that OP is being very responsible and having the pony PTS before it injures itself or others around it, god forbid! Too many horse and ponies are sold dishonestly. I would love to take on a horse or pony in need of a loving home but I would never take on a dangerous one, for the welfare of my horse I already have, myself and others on the yard. o and finances!

I have to admit I have learnt a lot from this thread despite the childish and bitchiness comments in between (O2Y).

IMO as long as the horse or pony's suffering was not prolonged and it was PTS humanly then what's the problem? The horses aren't suffering any pain and nor do they know what's happening. Not saying I condone abattoirs and nor would I have my little girl taken to one but that's my personal preference.

There are way too many horse and ponies breed and then sent to sales or just end up homeless. I think the breeding issues need to be addressed.

BTW NP I absolutely adore your bay and good on you for taking on the lovely ponies :) If I had the facilities I would love to do the same. I wish you all the best with them.
 
Have been away from the internet for a few days so have just sat here and read the whole thread!

I've found it (generally) very informative and it has opened my eyes to some of the options available to me.

I've had to ponies PTS in the last 4 years and opted to have them both done my lethal injection. Although I wasn't there I was told by vet and my OH that it was peaceful and quick.

Now I'm sure there are several people who will consider me a wimp for not being there right to the end but TBH you are right. If there was no other option then I would be there but if I can avoid it then I will. I'm sure this makes me a fluffy bunny but that's just me!

That said it wouldn't in any way change my mind about the decision that has to be made.

I've been very interested to read the accounts of people who have been to Potters. I couldn't bring myself to watch the vidoes (I get horrendous nightmares from things like that - I know that's bad for someone who's 26!) but found the first hand accounts very informative.

While this is not a method I would choose for my horses if I was in a position to make that decision it is good to know that there are other options that I could consider if the need arose. Prior to reading this thread I wouldn't have considered an abbatior an option at all for me. This was not because of any propaganda as such but generally due to a 'feeling' about the whole thing. So thank you for opening my eyes.

I don't like the thought of horses and ponies going to slaughter unnecessarily but I do accept that this happens. I also agree that this is a far better end than being passed from pillar to post and being subjected to potential neglect and an uncertain future.

OP - if the pony is dangerous then you are doing the right thing by PTS. Far better this than risk the lives of others. Having put so much time into trying to solve the problem it can't be an easy decision to make.

At some point along the line the thread seemed to move off into the topic of horses for human consumption. I've never eaten horse and I'm not sure whether I would or not mainly as I'd be concerned about the welfare etc leading up to slaughter. If I could be reassured about this then I'm sure I'd probably try it. After all, I've eaten a lamb that I've bottle fed and pork that I'd rubbed sun cream onto it's ears to stop them from burning.

Me thinks I'm starting to ramble on now - hadn't realised how late it had got while I was reading this post. . . .
 
We have had one mare shot in the stable next to her pair bond of 20 years, the one left alive did not seem to notice. She grieved for her friend, but took no notice of the actual death and was not worried when her turn came some years later. We have had one killed by lethal injection and several shot, will always have future horses shot. We have a friend who has a mixed livestock farm, she also has horses, they are kept on the farm and many have been turned away/retired, however when their time comes they are travelled to Turners. I can assure you that they are no less well cared for than anyone elses horses.
 
I have found this to be a most informative thread, I always knew of the existance of potters and turners but that was about it, I had no idea where they were or how horses were slaughtered.

In theory I see no difference in a horse, cow, sheep or pig being slaughtered, they are all animals at the end of the day.

But there is one significant difference, to most horses are much loved pets, and not a commercial commodity, hence they are viewed differently to cattle for example.
With cattle, they were bred and raised with the intention of slaughter always, so the emotional attachment isn't there.

I think this is where difference of opinion often lies with some, those who love their horses as just pets probably wouldn't use an abbatoir, but those who are maybe involved commercially with horses, or have the view that horses are working animals would, or just those that think well death is death no matter what.

I find some opinions on both sides rather insulting, ie. those that think slaughter in this way is wrong must be a fluffy bunny and those that have no issue with it have no interest in the horse, and are bad people etc.
Lack of understanding on both sides I think.

One other point I would like to make is those that favour abbatoirs are of course going to have no issues with the method of handling of killing, but that doens't mean others should and will find it acceptable.

I have no issue with anyone who has their horse pts regardless of method if the horse is dangerous, or if a horse can no longer be afforded and no alternative home can be found, or even if injured and no longer workable and the person wishes to have a working horse, but I do feel some come across as having so little regard for a horses life, thats its no big deal to kill a horse.
These animals serve humans in whatever capacity we choose and in some cases do so with little complaint for years, and I do honesty feel that some dump them at abbatoirs like I dump my mouldy loaf in the kitchen bin, this is the only part that really gets me, some so clearly have no regard for life ie. no money in that one, slaughter house.

So basically I think anyone who uses potters and turners on a regular basis is no horse lover, but someone who sees horses as commercial commodity, ie most £ dead or alive!
Nothing necessarily wrong with this, but frequently these people will also claim to love horses, I'm sorry but the two dont go hand in hand :(
 
I think it is also a question of practicalities/being realistic. Many HHOers are on my Facebook and know how I fuss and care for my horses however, I have had experience of horses being sent for meat in my childhood without any upset over the meat part (just that they were going to be PTS). In adult life I have had 2 PTS by the vet and buried on my land. I was there for the last two, to me it makes no difference as long as the end is very quick and accurate. I am the soppiest horse owner you could ever meet but realistic also, a dead horse is a dead horse which ever way you look at it. The sadness is all there which ever way they go, why the big uproar about using the body for meat?

I think perhaps it is the farming people who are more realistic, having had a large dairy herd and also raising bulls for meat myself I have no problem with this concept.

I feel the same way as Amy may and the others who have voiced a similar opinion.
 
I am still shocked at the pathetic attitude from so many people on this forum. Animals INCLUDING horses have no foresight or ability to predict what might happen. Why does a flighty horse jump out in front of a car? It's not thinking oh - I might get hit and end up with a broken leg and put to sleep, it doesn't know as it's an animal. Humans are the ones with foresight and the ability to know what could happen. Therefore the horses at abattoirs do not realise that they are there to be killed and when a fellow pen horse gets led away that it's going to be shot. They have no idea. When it's their turn they walk in - job done quickly on to the next. It's a fact of life - horses are shot thankfully mostly in a humane manner. They are also bred for meat in parts of the world but who are we to judge. I ate Zebra in S Africa and gasp I've eaten horse in France does that make me an awful person. No it doesn't. Grow up and get a life - I do respect vegetarians but struggle to cook for them when I am having a dinner party espec if they don't eat fish either!!
Just to add - few racehorses go into the food chain for human consumption - they'd go for pet food. Which I think is great as they are not tossed aside to defend themselves in poor conditions.
 
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Tankey said:
Once upon a time, this forum used to be a great place to ask for proper decent advice from experienced people living in the real world. A thread like this would have provided an informed discussion about the best ways of ending your animals life when the time comes, who to go to, where, how etc.

Now it has been taken over by the fluffy bunny brigade, you have to sift through the hysteria to get to decent answers.

A REAL horse lover, will plan their horses death from the moment they buy it.
Once an animal is dead, then it is dead. It doesnt matter if it is used for posh French food or cheap dog food...its dead......
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This is 100% how I feel, and not just about the meat man!
Having recently seen the "anti" footage of Potters, I actually found it very reassuring, and whilst my current situation is such that I would hopefully have my horse PTS at her yard (should it be required!) I would have no hesitation in using Potters should things change.
 
PollyP99 said:
Whilst not wishing to agree with Over2You's outburst re 'Nativeponies' I would have to say that having only been a member on here for a few weeks I have yet to read a post from NP that is not pro-killing in some form or just downright rude.

I see it that 'she/he' is intentionally trying to goad people into entering an argument, best not to rise to it.

ps, I agree that death comes to us all but who would willingly watch their horse hanging on a hook.....a step too far NP.
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Ah Polly, like so many you absolutely miss the point, and totally misunderstand the person.

Most of us (and I include myself in that) walk away when our horse is put down. It takes courage of conviction and a real sense of responsibility to see the process through to the end - what ever method is used.

NP has given us a clear description of what actually happens at an abbatoir - because she has been responsible enough to watch the process from beginning to end, not shying away from the sensitivities that afflict all of us. That takes a huge amount of courage - because regardless of how one feels, it is not a nice or comfortable thing to watch.

Those who have very strong opinions on abbatoir have formed them through ignorance - not through experience.
 
As this is an open forum it's great that, within reason, we all can voice an opinion.

But when it gets to the point where people who, by their own admission, haven't experienced a situation, then at that point their POV is null and void.

Opinion is just that, actual experience is a whole different ball-game.

TBH I'm at a loss as to how a few posters on here can say i'm not a horse lover/that i shouldn't be here/i'm uncaring? :(

I have taken ponies that i've owned to Potters..i've even taken other peoples horses because, in their words "i KNOW you will see it through to the end and he wont be sold on"..that speaks volumes to me as they trust me to do "the right thing" ATT.
and, as you can see, i've taken ponies FROM the Slaughterhouse

I say to them...Why? What have I written on this forum at any time for that conclusion to be reached?

As i'm sure I can't work it out?
:confused: :confused:
 
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Been following this post a bit.I think it was bound to be emotive.When people are upset they sometimes lash out and say things that they may wish they hadn't in cooler circumstances.In theory I have no objection to horses being destroyed, albeit as humanely as possible and it can be the kindest and most practical option.Potters and others can be as good as anywhere I expect but if I have to have mine destroyed (hopefully not for a very long time) I shall use the vet or knackerman at home (his) if I can.
 
I suspect it's because these people are too many generations removed from having had horses as working animals. Which gives me an idea!
 
I'm not against the slaughter of horses, but of ALL animals.
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Over2You - and Tic Tac, as you are both so vocal in your objections

Can you tell me what your solution would be then for the thousands of horses and ponies who go through the market ring every year - who are destined for meat?

Who would you have take responsibility for them? - because clearly their owners or breeders want them sold.

We have a crisis in this country (as do Ireland) with the amount of unwanted stock. In Ireland in particular the picture is pretty grim - with proposals having been made by the government to incentivise owners financially to have their horses put down - rather than abandon them and allow them to starve (because they can no longer afford them).

Welsh hill ponies aren't worth anything more than meat money at the moment - again no one is buying. So what is their future??

I'm genuinly worried that so many people have little in the way of knowledge or experience of what actually goes on on the wider world.

So an answer please - what is your proposal??????

How do we manage the waste???
 
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